Great Infantry with high cost

[Msas]

firstly, I am a new member in this forum for totalwar games .. I have a notice about JHI that is their technology tree is very cost and high. but, in hisotry the Turks used JHI earlier in their military movement . So I belive their requierments must be simpler.
seconly, sorry for my english language because it is not my first language :book:

[lars573]

The thing about JHI is that they are killing machines that are nearly unstoppable. They are pound for pound the best infantry unit MTW. That's why there cost and tech tree value are so high. If they were lower you could spam them too much and have an unfair advantage over the other factions.

[_Aetius_]

Yeah JHI are far to powerful to be available early on, i do think they are abit to hard to get though meaning thats its practically impossible to get them in the high or late period because you need fortresses and military academies etc. The turks seldom survive that long so only players are likely to get them anyway.

[ichi]

Many folks have commented on the little things where MTW deviates from historical accuracy - it is usually for gameplay reasons, and in this case I have to agree that JHI are quite powerful and should not be available before the Late era

Prior to getting JHI I use Muwahids or Saracens for anti-cav duties. The Turks get several good hybrid (shooters that can fight) like Janissary Infantry for use against infantry.

Altho JHI are quite ough, especially against cavalry, I have always thought they weren't that powerful when fighting other infantry. Varangian Guards can hold their own against JHI, and Chivalric Foot Knights are also great horse killers.

ichi :bow:

[_Aetius_]

The one thing that lets JHI down is there defence its not the best so they can take alot of casualties whereas varangians make mince meat of the enemy and retain numbers.

[IrishMike]

I once thought at one time that JHI were the hand of Allah (because were speaking of the Turks) on the battlefield. So I did some experiments and soon found out that while they are great for assualt troops and make excellent shock troops, they have very little staying power. They are best used against a demoralized enemy line, so they can keep plowing through. If the JHI ever loose their momentem they will be crushed. They have to be used somewhat like beserkers. Keep them moving to each hot-spot. Use them to beat the enemy back, or lessen their numbers, then move to the next. Keep them going, for if used effectivly they will give you the battle, but if used to slug it out in the line, they shall falter.

[Kommodus]

Yes, JHI are often called the overall best infantry unit (not necessarily the most powerful infantry unit) in the game. I've done some tests and found that VG can soundly beat JHI in single combat. The polarms carried by JHI give them an added advantage against cavalry, but VG are so heavily armed and armoured that they can take on cavalry almost as effectively (although they will end up taking a few more losses). It turns out that VG are also less expensive to build than JHI, although slightly more expensive to maintain. JHI move a little faster and have slightly better morale than VG.

The disadvantages of VG are basically that they take two turns to build instead of one, and they cannot be built in the late period. You would think that this means there would be fewer of them than JHI, right? However, this is not necessarily the case. VG have fewer build requirements, and are available from the beginning, so a Byzantine player can crank out quite a few of them rather quickly if he wants to, until the late period rolls around. JHI, on the other hand, requires a military academy (with a Grand Mosque as a prerequisite), and this requires getting to fortress level in a province. If the player wants to build them in multiple provinces, he must destroy the Grand Mosque and build it in another location, forcing him to go through the buildup process a second time, which takes many years. In short, getting to a level where you can train a truly significant number of JHI takes a very long time.

Because of these reasons, I actually think that JHI and VG are quite well balanced. The anti-cavalry bonus of JHI, added to their extra foot speed, make them a more flexible unit, and probably slightly better overall. These are both great units, without equal in the original game.

[Mithrandir]

Beefed up militia sergs also take down JHI AND VG's without much problems, while being faster&more versatile...

Only problem is that you can't easily raise their valour in Single Play.

[_Aetius_]

The main difference betwen byzantine and turkish armies is that the byzantines dont have a versatile infantry unit that can destroy infantry AND cavalry, byzantine armies lack effective anti cavalry infantry JHI cut through cavalry faster they do infantry.

However I have more faith in VG to destroy enemy frontlines than i do JHI who if outflanked rout very quickly.

[Msas]

thanks mates ..
but when I started this post I meant that Janizary Infantry is a rifle unit not ones with spears or sords .. try to get that from history books
:book:
JI are known as the great waepen that destroyed the Egyptian army in Marg-Dabek in Palestine and Al-Raidaniah near Cairo .. and this unit was ended by killing them in a battle by an order from The Turkish Sultan after many problems whith leaders of JI .

[Marquis de Said]

thanks mates ..
but when I started this post I meant that Janizary Infantry is a rifle unit not ones with spears or sords .. try to get that from history books
:book:
JI are known as the great waepen that destroyed the Egyptian army in Marg-Dabek in Palestine and Al-Raidaniah near Cairo .. and this unit was ended by killing them in a battle by an order from The Turkish Sultan after many problems whith leaders of JI .

It's true that the Janissaries had muskets which at the time were superior to the ones used by Christians, but I read a thick book called "The Ottoman Centuries" in which it said that the Janissaries also used all kinds of weapons, like polearms and swords. The Janissaries didn't carry just one type of weapon, they were the elite corps of the Sultan's army who were used to finish off enemies after the auxiliary troops (horse archers, light cavalry and militia) had softened them up, and they often engaged in hand to hand fighting. I think MTW should have a Janissary handgunners unit equipped with swords and a musket (and should have much better accuracy than all the other gunpowder rabble in the game :furious3: ) to reflect the Turks' strength in that field.