Retraining Units

[Wh1teWolf]

I have been playing MTW for about a year and read in Froggy's Guide about retraining troops, I have never done this or figured out how and I just disband those units that have lost troops. :furious3:

So how do I retrain or reequip units, I looked for how to do this for like two hours yesterday with no success any ideas or help?

[Hold Steady]

I have been playing MTW for about a year and read in Froggy's Guide about retraining troops, I have never done this or figured out how and I just disband those units that have lost troops. :furious3:

So how do I retrain or reequip units, I looked for how to do this for like two hours yesterday with no success any ideas or help?

The unit must be in the province AT THE START OF THE TURN. Click on the train unit screen. Make sure you can train the kind of unit in the specific province. Then click the unit (leave train screen open), so the unit is also displayed in the bottom screen as an icon. Drag this icon to the desired training slot (the place in which normally an icon appears, when you select a new unit to train). presto.

One thing though, last night I retrained a 5 valour 13-men unit of FMAA, lead by my 6-star expert defender, skilled attacker general. The province was attacked, my general was in training, so did not appear in battle! I lost the battle, training camp was overrun (while my other forces retreated to the castle) and my 13 men killed. Now, would I have trained a fresh unit, I would have had a unit of 60 men on the battlefield! Now I have zip and lost my man!

Never retrain, just train and add..

[Wh1teWolf]

Thanks for the reply and tip Hold Steady.

[deanox]

I have a couple of princes who got their ass's kicked by running into the forray while trying to win an against the odds battle. They were left with only a couple of royal knights. I was able to train royle knights in one of my provinces however this province said i didnt have the nessecary buildings to retrain that troops. does this mean you cannot retrain the royal guards?


on another note. what buildings must i have in wales as the english to get longbowmen. i cant seem to get them?

[English assassin]

I have a couple of princes who got their ass's kicked by running into the forray while trying to win an against the odds battle. They were left with only a couple of royal knights. I was able to train royle knights in one of my provinces however this province said i didnt have the nessecary buildings to retrain that troops. does this mean you cannot retrain the royal guards?


on another note. what buildings must i have in wales as the english to get longbowmen. i cant seem to get them?

I have had the knight problem, can't remember it exactly now but I think it comes about as you go from one era to another. RK's get upgraded era tyo era but the building stays the same, and when you can only build the new-era RKs you can no longer retrain the older units. Bit annoying.

Longbowmen are master bowyer IIRC but check you are in the high era, you can only get them after 1205.

training new units and merging is good advice as a rule except, read the guide on the effects of merging. if your province can turn out troops with better armour or more moral upgrade than the unit that needs to be retrained, then it may be better to retrain as you get the upgrades. if you train a new unit and merge you keep the old units armour stats.

[deanox]

well thats my prob im only about 1190!

on the merging, how do you do that? is there a limit to the number of soldiers in one unit? occasionaly i see 30 archers or 45 archers. do you know why i can get different numbers?

[Hold Steady]

well thats my prob im only about 1190!

on the merging, how do you do that? is there a limit to the number of soldiers in one unit? occasionaly i see 30 archers or 45 archers. do you know why i can get different numbers?

Well, the way units start out depends on the unit size of the game (you can select it in the game menu under options (i think performance). And, of course, every unit has its default size (say, 100 spearmen/peasants/byz inf./enz, 60 archers/Varangian guards/militia sergants/enz, 40 cavalry/knights, Then, as war tends to kill men, your units deplete. you can only fill your men up to the limit which are prescribed by the above two rules.

so, in normal unit size, 45 and 30 archers make 1 60 archer and 1 15 archer.

however, mercenary units can never be merged, not with other merc units, not with non-mercs.

[macsen rufus]

One thing I did dislike after upgrading from MTW 1.0 was that the mercenaries lost their merging abilities - I often used to whittle down merc units to the last few valourous survivors and then merge them into regular units. I thought of it as enlisting the decent veterans into my national army, but the devs decided we shouldn't be allowed to do that :furious3: .

And don't you just hate it when the infidel trash your training camp! That's happened to me a couple of times - I never retrain princes or valuable generals anywhere near the front line!

Once my empire gets big enough, I like to have a couple of "re-equipping" provinces too. One with gold armour, the other with gold weapons, and one with both together as well, if possible. Then I only train new troops from master class buildings in added valour provinces - everyone starts at v2. But you don't always get your iron deposits in your high-valour provinces, hence the re-equipping. I do this a lot more in Shogun than in MTW, I guess because there are fewer unit types. I also load up the re-equipping provinces with all the morale upgrades I can get as well. When a new unit reaches the battlefield it should be in pretty good shape.... of course, if you're desperately fighting for survival there may not be the time to do this!

I usually play MTW with small units (my computer is a bit underpowered on graphics, unfortunately), so the big units left over from the beginning of the game (I call them the 'Corps of Originals') do play quite a role too. I try to bribe as many Originals as I can when I find rebels. Although they eventually get whittled down to normal size after a few battles, you can actually re-equip Originals - they get the upgrades, but no extra men. My unit of 80 Original Mamluk HAs was a crack unit in my Egyptian campaign - I could only train 20 man units on my size setting! There were still 30+ men left in the unit at the end of the campaign, and well valoured up too!

[ichi]

well thats my prob im only about 1190!

on the merging, how do you do that? is there a limit to the number of soldiers in one unit? occasionaly i see 30 archers or 45 archers. do you know why i can get different numbers?

deanox:

The simplest expalnation for merging is simply to take a depleted unit and drop it on a similar unit. Generals with command stars and V&Vs wont merge, and there are some other details.

If you are interested in the finer points of merging please read the link Combining Units (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=30037)

ichi :bow:

[Procrustes]

I generally only retrain knights and units with good generals - otherwise I turn "auto-tidy" off and just keep merging my depleted units based mostly upon valor - I try to combine high valor remnants together to get full units with high valor. I build as many moral, weapon and armor buildings as I can in the provinces that are producing my most advanced units (the ones I'm likely to retrain). Oh, and I retrain arty because retraining takes only one year while building it new takes two.

ichi - that's a great link, thanks!

[bretwalda]

I was wondering: is there any advantage of retraining compared to building and merging? Because merging is a way lot easier and safer...

[Ludens]

I was wondering: is there any advantage of retraining compared to building and merging? Because merging is a way lot easier and safer...
Retraining gives you (obviously) weapon, armour and morale upgrades. If these are not available, then merging is a better option, because it concentrates your experienced troops. AFAIK it is possible to upgrade royal bodyguards to their improved types. However, you cannot add weapon upgrades and the like to them.

[Msas]

about the old royal knights that can't be retrained this problem is gone with the release of viking invation . so , you can retrain the old ones with new upgrades except your king also you cant emerge new unit of royal knight with an old one . Hold Steady said his FMAA general was retrained while the province was attacked so he Gone With Wind . But I say when I put a unit to be retrained and an enemy attacked that province I found my unit in the battle and with full number . Meybe I am playing MTW-VI . I prefer emerging units than retraining specially when get valuor and emerged whith one in the valuor . I kept doing this for a unit of hascuarls when playing with Dansh and by the year 1200 I have a unith of hascuarls with a 6 valour .. oh :dizzy2:

[2faced]

on another note. what buildings must i have in wales as the english to get longbowmen. i cant seem to get them?

Longbowmen are from the bowyer's guild, are they not?

[mikkele]

I was wondering: is there any advantage of retraining compared to building and merging? Because merging is a way lot easier and safer... Well, it sort of depends of whether you have something to merge ~:). Seriously, the merge-only strategy increases your micro-management burden, since you will constantly have to track all your unit fragments and assemble them in a single province to get the full benefit of merging. I usually just retrain, since this is much easier to manage. You will also have full units instead of depleted units waiting for a suitable marge-partner to appear.

[macsen rufus]

Another difference between merging and retraining is what happens to your veterans. You need to decide whether you want your veterans in units together, or spread out amongst your army so there are some vets to steady the new recruits in retrained units. I'm sure there are advantages to both.... I'd expect that retraining low morale types would be better as they really benefit from experienced men in the unit - but whether the game does it this way is a different question ~;)

Obviously bribed troops that you can't retrain need to be merged - I like to have some "exotic" types in my armies, and a few units valoured up in battle and merged down to a core of veterans makes it worth having a different capability.

Other aspects: you can empty a unit of all troops but the general - if he's a governor and never fights, why does he need the extra support costs? If he's useless or disloyal you can disband him without losing a full unit, and as it's quicker than stripping titles with an emissary, you can reassign the title straight away. You also leave only a single man to join the mercenaries down at the inn, so your enemies don't benefit either.....

[ichi]

I disagree with the notion that merging depleted units requires more micromanagement than retraining. Both approaches require some attention to what your troop status is and both can involve some effort moving units around.

When merging it is important to pay attention to the various qualities of your units - you don't want to lose upgrades and its prolly better to merge units of similar valor; but retraining can increase the volume of units i your training queues and slow unit production if you're not careful.

You can use either approach to accelerate unit upgrading. For example, if you train a unit in a province with an armor upgrade building, then retrain it (either as a full or depleted unit) in a province with a weapon upgrade building, you'll get a unit with armor and weapons. You can get a similar effect when merging - I always drop unarmored units, regardless of valor, onto armored units when merging thereby getting free armor for a few troops.

So both approaches have advantages and drawbacks. But both are necessary tools to use as appropriate.

There are two things to avoid. First don't retrain troops in provinces that you need to be training new troops. I think this reduces your overall training capacity, or maybe to say it better it reduces your efficiency. I'd rather a new unit AND and a depleted unit than to have one retrained unit. In this case I'd use merging depleted and buidling new ones to get the most effect. Second, never merge units with different upgrades. For example, do not merge a unit with only a weapon upgrade with a unit with only an armor upgrade, you'll lose one or the other depending on who you drop on whom.

During the course of a campaign I use both techiques, and if you understand the details you can get some nice effects.

ichi :bow:

[macsen rufus]

Another strategy I use (more so in STW than MTW) is to keep an army of broken units for "special ops"... usually these are very high valour fragments of units that have as much hitting power as a raw unit w/o valour.

This army sees a lot of use in battles where there's a small enemy army to attack, but I am depending on (1) they mustn't withdraw without fighting, (2) there must be no survivors. Having small units leaves more room in the army for balance. After all, it only takes one horse archer to pull a unit of spears out of place....

This army is also useful for training generals up for their "skilled against the odds" virtues.

[Procrustes]

I haven't found that merging units takes any more micromanagement than other aspects of game play. If I'm at war, I cycle my depleted units backwards towards a second-line province at the same time I'm moving newly created units forward. As I merge the depleted units to full or nearly full, I cycle them forwards again. This also helps in that the depleted units can serve as a temporary garrison for unstable provinces that you may have just captured.

@ macsen rufus - that's a good idea. I sometimes buy a mercenary or mostly mercenary army that I try to keep fighting every year - if I treat my troops well (no suicide charges) I've found that by the time they are reduced 50% or more they are fearsome indeed - plus they cost a lot less to support!

[SirThomasMalory]

For example, if you train a unit in a province with an armor upgrade building, then retrain it (either as a full or depleted unit) in a province with a weapon upgrade building, you'll get a unit with armor and weapons. You can get a similar effect when merging - I always drop unarmored units, regardless of valor, onto armored units when merging thereby getting free armor for a few troops.


Hmm, I was under the impression from posts read long ago that the equipment/moral/valor of each man in each unit was tracked and that the icons only gave an average of the stats. For example, if you merge 30 V.0 FMAA and 20 V.3 FMAA you get 50 that show valor 1, but really you have 30 V.0 and 20 V.3 men in your unit. With equipment, the icon will show the equipment level of the majority of the men in the unit. Can anyone confirm this?

[Procrustes]

Turns out that valor is tracked that way, but that equipment is tracked on a unit basis. It's a little gamey. Try to think of it as "the survivors kept some extra equipment from their fallen brethren."

[ichi]

Hmm, I was under the impression from posts read long ago that the equipment/moral/valor of each man in each unit was tracked and that the icons only gave an average of the stats. For example, if you merge 30 V.0 FMAA and 20 V.3 FMAA you get 50 that show valor 1, but really you have 30 V.0 and 20 V.3 men in your unit. With equipment, the icon will show the equipment level of the majority of the men in the unit. Can anyone confirm this?

Procrustes has it right, valor is tracked individually but weapons and armor are tracked by unit.

Check the link in my earlier post for more details

ichi

:bow:

[macsen rufus]

... Try to think of it as "the survivors kept some extra equipment from their fallen brethren." :lol:

Probably true, but I find it less morbid to think that the general provides the armour and weapons, as was so often the case in feudal armies... so the men get what the general has (eqpt tracked by unit). All they bring to the unit is their fighting ability (valour tracked by man) - so I guess it's fair, really ~D

[Procrustes]

:lol:

Probably true, but I find it less morbid to think that the general provides the armour and weapons, as was so often the case in feudal armies... so the men get what the general has (eqpt tracked by unit). All they bring to the unit is their fighting ability (valour tracked by man) - so I guess it's fair, really ~D

Ah, I like that better. I kep imagining the poor new guy who gets handed a mail shirt with a big gore encrusted hole in the side. Goes with his new helmet with the big dent. ;-)

As an aside, I think that moral is also tracked by unit, not by man.

[macsen rufus]

@Procrustes, I think you're right about the morale being a unit-based thing. Once again it's provided by the general (probably so that the v/v system can work in the game...)