Questions about melee&misslies

[net knight]

Hi there all ~:cheers:
I`m looking forward to read some proffesional advice about both melee abilities and missile fire power (I don`t mean armour piercing or not)
so check up this and try helping me cause i read some Deluding information
in the forums!!
Also bear in Mind that i almost red the Unit prod file..
The firts qustion is about weapons
Example:
1\
a unit with (3) attack using a spear
a unit with (3) attack using a sword
should the unit with sword easily defeat the one with spear!
(Assuming both with the same armour and defnce levels)

2\
what is the differnce between 2 units with the same charateristics
but one of them is A cavalry while the other is an infantry!!

3\
A unit like the Sipahis of the Porte with 20 men and armed with bows!!
will it outperform a standard archers unit (In aspect of arrows Fire power)
i hope that the answer is yes :dizzy2:
that`s all for now!
~:)

[mikkele]

1) As a general rule, swords beat spears.

2) Cav units generally gets a bonus when attacking infantry.

3) No. Foot archers generally has the advantage over mounted archers, the latter being a bigger target. The bow is the same in terms of firepower for most archer units, whether they are mounted or not.

[the tokai]

1) As a general rule, swords beat spears.

2) Cav units generally gets a bonus when attacking infantry.

Not true. If both unit have the same stats and the spears are in formation, they will win. The spears can get a maximum bonus of +1 attack and +2 defence for being in formation. The swords only get +1 attack for fighting against spears. The reason why swords will win most of the time is because the stats (especially attack) of most swords are higher and because you can deploy them in fewer ranks without losing any bonusses. Because of this they can wrap around the formation of spears. This will get the spears out of formation badly and they will lose their bonus. But spears can beat swords. Saracens vs byzantine infantry is a good example of this.

As for the cavalry, no they don't get any bonusses. Cavalry beats most infantry because their stats are simply higher. The main advantage of cavalry is their speed. They can chase down archers and run around units to attack them in the flanks or rear.

[Procrustes]

Hi,

I found the most useful thing to do once you get done reading the unit guide is to just start spinning a lot of little "custom battles". By yourself one sword unit and pit it against one AI spear unit on some generic battlefield. Try it a couple of times - each battle won't take long. Then vary it a little bit - try a better spear unit, or try changing unit valor, etc. etc. It will give you a much better feel for how things work.

HTH,

[ichi]

1\
a unit with (3) attack using a spear
a unit with (3) attack using a sword
should the unit with sword easily defeat the one with spear!
(Assuming both with the same armour and defnce levels)

Your question is difficult to answer 'cause its more complicated than that.

The many different types of spears (Spearmen, Armored Spearmen, Feudal Sargs, Chiv Sargs, Order Foot Soldiers, Italian Inf, Saracens, Nubians, etc) each have different attack and defence stats. Same with swords types (FMAA, CMAA, FFKs, Byz Inf, blah blah blah)

And those stats change as you increase the valor level of the unit, and add weapons and armor upgrades.

When you upgrade armor it adds 1 to the def stats, so that increases fighting power, but armor really only protects against missile fire.

Then consider that sword units are usually 60 (sometimes 40, or even 100) while Spear types tend to be 100 man units on normal settings. Tokai described the bonuses each type gets, but you really need to compare specific units to get your answer (for example a V3 CMAA will usually beat a V3 Italian Infantry straight up in my experience).

Most swords are balanced att/def (like 5 att/5 def) while spear types usually have low att/high def (e.g. 2 att/8 def).

In most battles I prefer swords, specifically men-at-arms, but am highly biased due to lots of online play.



2\
what is the differnce between 2 units with the same charateristics but one of them is A cavalry while the other is an infantry!!

The cav unit will be faster.



3\
A unit like the Sipahis of the Porte with 20 men and armed with bows!!
will it outperform a standard archers unit (In aspect of arrows Fire power)
i hope that the answer is yes :dizzy2:
that`s all for now!
~:)

Nope, as mentioned its the same firepower but only half the arrows.

Procrustes had an xclnt suggestion. Go try some custom battles - for example build an army with a V4 Spear unit, a V3 Sword unit, a V1 Feudal Knight, and a V1 Feudal Foot Knight. Once in the battle hit F1 to look at the unit stats.

ichi :bow:

[net knight]

Thanks All!
special thanks for (the tokai) for the formation stuff!! that`s what i was askink for!
also greaaaaaaaat thanks for this answer achi u r a reaaaaaal PROF.
but u mentioned that every point of armour gives a +1 def??
is armour related to defence!
as the unit stat says they r different!!
(though the game always asigns high armour levels with high defnce levels)

[Ludens]

but u mentioned that every point of armour gives a +1 def??
is armour related to defence!
as the unit stat says they r different!!
(though the game always asigns high armour levels with high defnce levels)
The defense stat of a unit comprises of his inherent defense + the armour bonus (there is also a shield bonus, but it does not matter in the context of your question). Units with high armour usually have a high defense, but they tire very fast in the desert. Also, a number of units have armour-piercing (AP) abilities, so they get a bonus against armoured troops.

Armour can be improved by building or retraining the unit in a province with an armourer building. You can gain up to +4 armour at the highest level of armourer building (master armourer). However, it can be a good idea to refrain from upgrading armour when fighting in the desert. Around three armour (inherent armour + uprades! ) your troops will manage but anything above and they will tire rapidly.

Defence improves with valour: for each point of valour 1 point of defence (and 1 point of attack) is added.

The formula for defense is: [inherent defense] + [valour] + [armour bonus] + [shield bonus]. Remember that the shield bonus only applies when the unit is attacked frontally. Also, missile attacks work a differently: only armour (and a shield bonus, which can be different from the shield bonus that applies to defense) protects against a missile hit. However, the missile has to hit a soldier first, so at a long distance from the archers, or in loose formation a unit will suffer less missile casualties.

If you want to know more about the combat engine of M:TW, you can look at this post in the .Com forums: Medieval: Total War Numerology (http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm5.showMessage?topicID=12997.topic). Scroll down until the post "General Combat Mods by Puzz3D". It contains an overview of most factors involved in melee combat.

[net knight]

Thanks Ludens :bow:
Great thanks i`m checking this Numerology and it is looks briliant!

[Ulair]

Hi net knight, folks,

For questions like 1 & 2 I found Yas's Unit Master really useful in my early days (actually, I still do). It's a great 'unit of X vs unit of Y - who wins?' tool. You can get it from Clan Berserk's site:

http://shogun.cafe24.com/medieval/

Cheers,
Ulair (long time gone...)