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CBR
01-27-2005, 16:38
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=19896.topic


Right this is the Readme was written before all of the fixes that had been added. The Primary-Secondary Weapon stats issue has been fixed!!!!! But as the Patch will be with us soon I thought you guys would like to see a list of some of the stuff we have addressed.



PATCH FIXES v1.2

This 1.2 patch contains many improvements as well as fixes for Single and Multiplayer issues. Listed below are some of the main changes/fixes.

Battles

· Fixed missile collision code to reduce friendly fire casualties
· Reinforcement AI – AI Generals are now less suicidal
· Fixed phalanx pursuit bug
· Fixed multiple groups converging on a single point when ordered to move
· Player can now select between drip-fed and AI controlled reinforcements before a battle
· Custom battles in both single player and multiplayer involving multiple
armies of the same faction are now supported. Armies of the same faction must all be on the same team.

· Allowed troops defending a city with no walls to leave the wall boundary
· Allowed men in siege towers to panic to stop men 'fighting to the death'
becoming stuck in an inaccessible place.

· Chariots carrying an officer or the general now get the appropriate health bonus
· Stopped men on bridges from panicking (thus leading to mass extinctions).
· Fixed armies withdrawing from an ambush on the battlefield where they couldn't escape the battlefield.
· You can now see settlements, wonders, ships on adjacent tiles when
going down to the battlefield

· Increased the fatigue combat penalties by 50% to make them more
noticeable

· Fixed amok elephants not killing anyone after they went into a path following individuals.

· Numerous fixes to the testudo formation, particularly movement in cities, colliding with other testudos and getting stuck in the reform task

· General Improvements to unit movement when grouped.
· Fixed bug in locomotion, which was leading to men sometimes being trapped in the testudo state.
· Fixed path finding not taking constrictions (e.g. bridges) into account when moving to points within the constriction in some cases. (Usually manifested as people running into the river when asked to attack a unit standing on a bridge).

· Allowed troops defending the plaza to leave the plaza if being shot at
· Stopped elephants/chariots and cavalry running into rivers in an attempt to reach their combat target
· Units with shields can now effectively shield themselves when marching.


Sieges

· Fixed siege towers colliding (producing a rattling behaviour), when dragged out as close as possible then ordered to move.
· Fixed a crash when a unit tries to pick up ladders in deployment but doesn't have enough men in unit.
· Fixed siege towers creating arrows during deployment when in range and set to fire-at-will, which would all fly forwards in one huge volley when you started the battle.


Interface

· Added option to enable/disable unit shaders to graphics options
· Added option to enable/disable gloss maps to graphics options
· Stopped ancillary transfer ‘cloning’ issue
· Added total cost of queued mercenaries to recruitment scroll
· Sieging armies can now bring up siege equipment scroll when they have no Movement Points
· Added optional multiplayer quick chat system, and ability to set message duration (in preferences.txt)
· Added 'minimal UI' for battles, set MINIMAL_UI: TRUE in preferences.txt
· Added shortcuts for hiding elements of minimal battle ui, F5 – toggle radar, F6 - toggle buttons, F7 - toggle cards
· Added a button to admit defeat in multiplayer battles
· When using 'quick chat' system, messages are now colored depending on source of message in categories: friend, enemy, all, private
· Added logical unit selections (ctrl + shift + 1-9 to set, alt + 1-9 to select) as in Medieval. There is no visual representation of this.

· Added keyboard shortcuts to select next and previous of a given selected object type (character, settlement, fort etc.)
· Added multiplayer message log (use the ` key)
· You can now view all queued multi turn paths (equals key)


Multiplayer

· Added filter check box to game list to filter games that cannot be joined
· Added ignore player chat button to filter unwanted chat from players in the lobby
· Players who quit the game now have their armies taken over by AI.
· Dropping players who have lost contact (either through connection problems or because of a machine lock-up) is now possible. In army selection stage, if there is a problem that causes the game to stall a chat message will notify players. If there is ONE player causing the problems, the host may kick them using the relevant 'kick' button. If the game resumes, either because the problem has been resolved or because the player causing the problem has been kicked, then a message will inform players. Players can leave the game even when stalled.


· In battles, if the game stalls a window will pop up to inform players of the problem. If one player is causing the problem, a 'kick' button will appear in this window on the host machine. All players will also have a 'leave game' option. If the game resumes, the window disappears

· Desyncs in game state are now reported in the release version of the game. A message will inform players that the game is not synchronized. The host may then kick players who have desync’d from the host game state, by using chat commands. These can be entered in battle games, by selecting any chat option. Supported commands are: '#players' - which displays a list of players in the game, with indexes that can be used to kick them, and also displays if the game is currently synchronized, and if not shows who is synchronized with the host; '#kick', which allows the host to kick players from the game, either by specifying a single player index (eg, '#kick 1'), or if the chat command has been sent 'to' a specific player, '#kick you' will kick that player. Finally, if the game has desync’d, '#kick desync' will kick all players not synchronized with the host. If the game then becomes synchronized again, a message will inform players

· Logfiles: To allow people to view stats without using the online stats tracking, a logfile report is generated after all MP battles. This lists various stats about the game. Preferences options allow you to force logfiles to be generated after ALL battles, even single player campaign ones. By default this is off - the preferences.txt file must be edited by hand, there is no in-game UI to change these. The name of the file used is online_mp_DD-MM-YY_HHMM.txt, for day, month, year, hour, minute, saved to 'logfiles' directory. Another preferences option allows you to switch off time stamped logfiles and just use logfile.txt.


· Player Id’s: In Online play, users can choose any name they like at login. We do however have a CD-key specific ID that is unique, and we've implemented a system that lets people use this information. It's disabled by default - preferences settings (starting with GS_PID) enable this, although you can also enable it through the chat window in the lobby. The basic idea is that information derived from a player's CD ID is displayed as a tooltip for that player's name; the CD ID itself can be shown, and/or it can be used to look up entries from listings. The system uses listings found in playerlists directory. Lists have titles and a series of player CD ID/name pairs. If a CDID is present in a list, the tooltip for that player will appear and show the list title and the name found. One listing is (optionally) maintained by the game - current.txt, which has a default title 'Known'. When you log out, any CD IDs not previously seen are appended to this list. You can also force saving the list with #cur. Use #cur TITLE to save and also change the title used. By default, current.txt is used - this can be toggled with #usecur. Chat-window commands control this system. #pid - enables and disables the system. #fullid - toggles display of CD ID. This is not active by default, as the ids are just numbers. #usecur - toggle use of current.txt listing (active by default) #lists - reload all player lists; also displays the position of any errors if it failed to load, so people can create their own lists and try them out more easily. Check current.txt for format. With this system active, you can see what people called themselves the first time you met them. The community can create and distribute additional listings, for tournaments, clans, and rankings. This goes some way to letting people have confidence in identities. It's disabled by default, and is entirely optional, so only those who feel the need for it will use it. The tooltips for players can take a second or two to appear as GameSpy has to be queried for CDID info. If there is no listing, nothing will appear - also, if the player is in GameSpy Arcade, no CDID info is available, so again nothing will appear.


· Battle chat commands: In MP battles, there are some chat commands available. Send chat to anyone or everyone (anything starting # is not actually sent as chat). #players (or #p) shows info about players in the game - names, factions, denari spent if custom battle, whether the game is synchronised. In deployment, it also lists who the game is waiting for, so you can see who is taking too long to deploy. #kick allows the host to kick players (using the player number listed with #p) #kick desync allows host to kick players who have desynced with the host game #drop allows the host to attempt to drop players who have lost contact with the game, possibly as they have crashed - this is managed by a pop-up window in-game, but while the game is still loading on some machines this window is disabled, and #drop is the only way the host can drop such players. Note that this will work only if a single player has lost contact - multiple drops are not supported.


Editor

· Battle editor enabled – can be accessed by entering command line switch –enable_editor

Campaign Map

· The Campaign Map camera movement has been made considerably smoother with the addition of inertia to remove camera judder. This option can be switched on and off in the preferences.txt file by changing the value of CAMPAIGN_MAP_CAMERA_SMOOTHING between TRUE and FALSE.

· Added 'show character details' button to coming of age message
· When accepting a marriage proposal, a marriage message is generated with a 'Show character details' button, so the character can be located

· You can now sally out against a besieging army only once per turn
· Heirs are chosen through their influence rather than their
management or command skills

· Decreased movement cost for deep sea, hence an increase in movement per turn
· Brigands now more active - they will move around more often
· Brigands now have the option of attempting to conquer human-controlled settlements on difficulty levels hard and very hard
· Reinforcements will now only be available in a sally battle outside a settlement, if the army that is attacked is the besieging army

· Fixed crash bug when doing a multi turn action on a fort or port which
then disappears before the action is finished

· Watchtowers were not using their height advantage to see over obstacles and terrain
· Limited the effect of squalor on public order to 100% max
· Rebalanced elephants and chariots in auto-resolve, they were hugely undervalued
· Improved behavior of the auto-resolve on hard and very hard
· Increased frequency of ambushes
· Losing or drawing army withdrawing now reforms with all it's routed units as long as there are enough soldiers to reform the army
· Assassinating generals is much more difficult if his army has a substantial number of men
· Slightly increased movement extends for agents
· Can now disband units in enemy territories
· Map information diplomacy costs increased in line with the amount of information received
· Post Marius upgraded bodyguard units are now working
· Subterfuge AI now much more active
· Sally battles are now only available against a besieging army rather than just an adjacency check
· Fixed many trait and ancillary issues
· Battlefield now shows adjacent settlements, forts, wonders, ships and ports
· Extermination cash reward reduced
· Bribing settlements and characters is now a transgression
· Fixed bug where spies in an enemy settlement were getting killed when the settlement changed hands
· Improved campaign map scroll speed control.


Naval

· Navies are now more likely to blockade enemy ports
· Navies will consider moving to reinforce a navy that is transporting troops, as long as the moving navy has not already moved that turn, and can reach the transporting navy within one single turn

· Navies transporting passengers will no longer consider merging with other navies
· Fixed bug that was preventing navies from merging (hence lots of little
ships in version 1.0)


· Fleets may split into smaller fleets if the faction doesn't have enough
individual navies to satisfy all transport requirements

· Added contiguous coastlines to help with long range naval pathfinding
· Fixed admirals not getting command stars after battle

Characters/Agents

· Fixed bribery attribute so that it increases your chance of bribing
rather than reducing it.

· You cannot bribe a family member back after another faction has bribed them. He is disinherited from any of
his former factions

· Cannot bribe fellow Romans anymore whilst you're allied
· Bribery costs increased to double and also according to the wealth of the briber
· Bribery of a captain with agents and incompatible units was disbanding the agents with the army. Now fixed.
· Infiltrated spies remain when a settlement changes hands
· Maximum chance of assassination and sabotage is changed from 100% to 95%
to stop assassins assassinating everything.

· Characters can now be cured of the plague when they are not in a settlement
· Character plague duration has been reduced from 8 to 5 turns
· Command stars will not be assigned in battle when the odds are overwhelming in favor of the winner and vice versa for the loser
· Fixed transgression bug when making small value deals


Events

· Birthplace, marriages, and adoptions can be at other settlements now, not just capital. New characters will appear in the settlement where their father (or father in law in the case of marriage, and adopted-father in the case of adoption) is garrisoned

· Tweaked the age of marriage candidates so that you get less old suitors and overly young suitors.
· Marius is now more likely to happen later on in the game
· All future disaster events and historical events were being erased when a save game was loaded up. This is now fixed


AI

· Improved the AI unit re-training behavior
· Tweaked the AI subterfuge so that assassination missions, sabotage
missions, infiltration missions are actually carried out. Is now less
cautious with lower ranked assassins and spies.

· Tweaked the AI tax level setting code (also affects player-assist)
· Fixed the player-assist AI updating the tax policy when part or all of the
garrison is moved out of a settlement

· Fixed the AI not attacking enemy controlled forts in its territory
· Changes to campaign AI strength evaluation
· Improved likelihood of AI sallying
· Allowed AI armies to move again after executing an attack
· Increased AI target evaluation of provinces which contain Wonders
· Changed campaign AI production behavior to make it more likely that elephants and Artillery are produced
· Fixed protectorate behavior (Tribute and not attacking)
· Fixed other Romans attacking your protectorates
· Fixed bug stopping the AI defending fords in river battles
· Reinforcement AI – AI Generals are now less suicidal


Many more general tweaks and fixes.

UNINSTALLING THE GAME
When uninstalling Rome: Total War™ , there will be 2 files that will remain on the hard drive. You can find the files in the following locations if you wish to delete them.

\version.inf
\Docs\Patch Readme.rtf

PATCH FIXES v1.1

Battles

· Elephant units in the game have been tweaked to make them less overpowering.


Multiplayer

· This 1.1 patch addresses many issues with multiplayer dealing with game stability, performance and some synch issues.
· Fixed an issue with the GameSpy multiplayer lobby population when it hits its maximum.



Total War Software © 2002 - 2004 The Creative Assembly Limited. Total War, Rome: Total War and the Total War logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of The Creative Assembly Limited in the United Kingdom and/or other countries. Published by Activision Publishing, Inc. Activision is a registered trademark of Activision, Inc. All rights reserved. Portions utilize Microsoft Windows Media Technologies. Copyright (c) 1999-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved This product contains software technology licensed from GameSpy Industries, Inc. (c) 1999-2003 GameSpy Industries, Inc. GameSpy and the "Powered by GameSpy" design are trademarks of GameSpy Industries, Inc. All rights reserved
CBR

Blitz
01-27-2005, 16:39
Can't wait ~:cheers:

Basileus
01-27-2005, 16:44
alright i´ll check it out..

fret
01-27-2005, 16:51
This isnt a bug fix, but I really like the sound of it...

"Player can now select between drip-fed and AI controlled reinforcements before a battle"

~:)

Quietus
01-27-2005, 16:55
No changes to high unit speed and kill-rates? Bummer... ~:confused:

Slaists
01-27-2005, 16:56
Doesn't seem like they have added "Save Battle" option for SP :(

Kraxis
01-27-2005, 16:56
Hmmm... interesting...

But I didn't see two fixes (one of which I find highly annoying).

No fix to the family members strolling around lonely while the arge armeis are controlled by captains.
And of course the phalanx drift.

Not to forget the SP replays... :embarassed:

RJV
01-27-2005, 17:05
Hmmm... interesting...

But I didn't see two fixes (one of which I find highly annoying).

No fix to the family members strolling around lonely while the arge armeis are controlled by captains.
And of course the phalanx drift.

Not to forget the SP replays... :embarassed:

Yes I spotted (or rather didn't spot) the drift one. And the replays. But it's not an exhaustive list (though long) so maybe there are one or two surprises in there.

Having said that, there will be a LOT of discontent if the first person downloads the patch, sets up a phalanx and there's a slow-slow-quick-quick-slow-and-TURN YOUR BACKS situation. Hopefully the general battle tweaks will have nailed it.

Fingers crossed.

Cheers,

Rob.

Lord Hammerschmidt
01-27-2005, 17:07
While there are some things missing, overall, it seems to be a fairly impressive list of stuff. I especially like the Ai fix so they actually stack ships, and the changes to the bribing system.

Fridge
01-27-2005, 17:13
Hmmm... interesting...

But I didn't see two fixes (one of which I find highly annoying).

No fix to the family members strolling around lonely while the arge armeis are controlled by captains.



True, but I suppose it depends on whether the suicidal nature of normal AI generals (not just reinforcements) has been tweaked. If general's are less suicidal in... err... general, hopefully there will be more enemy family members around and less leaderless armies wandering about. But you're right, I suppose it won't fix the non-stacking behaviour.

And Quietus, I'm guessing they're just fixing the hard-coded stuff; kill speeds and all that business can be modded quite easily. I say quite easily - personally, I haven't got a clue, but there are plenty of fixes on these boards...

Slaists
01-27-2005, 17:15
i'm not sure how to interpret this: "Fixed phalanx pursuit bug". maybe it means a solution to the "quick-quick-slow..." - drifting phalanx issue?

CBR
01-27-2005, 17:15
Kill rates have been reduced on some units (romans as an example) as they no longer use the primary (missile) weapon stat.

Im sure the phalanx has been fixed Kraxis ~;)


CBR

Butcher
01-27-2005, 17:17
I have to say it looks quite comprehensive; will certainly improve the game.
Good to see they even thought of the coming of age appearance issue.
Looks promising..

Paul Peru
01-27-2005, 17:22
I can't wait! No news about moddability...

AI Generals are now less suicidalSomewhat suicidal people can be very dangerous. After all, most of the units in your army are trained. :embarassed: sorry

Duke John
01-27-2005, 17:26
You can now see settlements, wonders, ships on adjacent tiles when
going down to the battlefield

That is great stuff!

Looks like a good patch that will make the game alot more enjoyable. I'm also missing added moddability, but that is the least important anyway. Let them first get the gameplay right.

Red Harvest
01-27-2005, 17:48
There is a lot in this patch, and I suspect a lot more that isn't mentioned.

They confirmed my suspicions about the disaster events not working. It was clearing things out when the campaign was saved. "All future disaster events and historical events were being erased when a save game was loaded up."

How about this one?
"Allowed AI armies to move again after executing an attack"
The AI is going to start pursuing! They might even get some command stars...

And speaking of those, I liked the fact that battles with heavily lopsided forces won't give or take command stars.

And the brigands are going to get aggressive. I'll actually have to build WALLS in the backwaters! Hallelujah.

Thought it was interesting that the Chariot generals were not getting their health bonuses. I had suspected as much after using them in campaign.

No mention of flaming arrow problems... hope it is just an oversight in the read me.

hundurinn
01-27-2005, 17:50
Finally. Can't wait for the patch.

I got two questions. Will the Ai use different tactics in battles and be harder to beat?

Agravain of Orkney
01-27-2005, 18:13
Overall a great list of fixes and enhancements which I'm sure are an improvement to the game.

This one has me wondering....

· Custom battles in both single player and multiplayer involving multiple armies of the same faction are now supported. Armies of the same faction must all be on the same team.

I thought the desire to allow multiple armies of the same faction in multiplayer was so that an army of one "uber" faction could be countered by an army from the same faction on an opposing team. It sounds like we could now be facing whole teams of [insert your most hated uber-faction here]. Does this improve game balance or add more imbalance? Seems like more imbalance to me. Your thoughts please.

Proletariat
01-27-2005, 18:29
Besides all the things they had to fix, (friendly fire, bridge warefare, etc)
I am excited about three things that I wasn't sure we'd get.

1) Fighting with the Collossus watching,
2) Finally seeing a storm wash out a fleet or two, and
3) Getting new family members elsewhere from your capitol.

The_678
01-27-2005, 18:41
From all the missing fixes I hope the Temple of Zeus is fixed, I didn't see a fix in there for that. But it looks really great and I don't want to complain and I can't wait for the patch. This sounds like the game that was supposed to be not the game it is.

hellenes
01-27-2005, 18:47
I hope the non included in the reademe feature would be the extention of the :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: RED LINE to the WHOLE extent of the radar so we can play a decent game on huge setting...

Hellenes

Rodafowa
01-27-2005, 19:00
Nice to see the possibility of producing logs for single-player battles back. The only thing that I really, really wanted to see that doesn't seem to be in there are the replays for single-player.

Yes, I have no friends. What of it?

Lonewarrior
01-27-2005, 19:02
ahh would I finally be able to play mp ~:cheers:

[DnC]
01-27-2005, 19:08
Excellent! Thanks CBR for posting the information!
There are a lot of good things in that list! Except for one thing I personally would have liked to be in the patch, if it isn't already in yet, but just not mentioned, are the SP replays as some others have also mentioned in this thread.

But all in all this is certainly looking good!
I had to limit myself with certain things already, like:
- I can only sally out once per turn.
- I can't attack the same army more then once per turn, because the AI couldn't either.
And these two are both fixed!

I was really missing the fact that wonders and such (although I was only aware of the wonders not showing and hadn't payed attention to the other things) weren't shown on the battlefield, but that has been fixed now! WHOOPY! ~D

Spino
01-27-2005, 19:38
That's one hell of a list, especially when you consider that it's only a preliminary one!

No mention of whether the strategic AI has been adjusted to build far fewer naval units! I must assume this will be in the patch because countless people have complained about it. Strange as it sounds to the uninitiated this is a critical issue that must be addressed in the campaign game!

Some good news regarding the tactical AI. Obake Date just posted this at the com...

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=19903.topic

Re: Whoaa! Please dont sabotage sallying CA!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the issues surrounding this was the AI's tendency to charge you and get annihilated by the towers on the walls. Players would do this, rinse and repeat until the besiegers were decimated at virtually no loss to the besieged.

Dropping the number of sally's eliminates this potential, thereby improving gameplay. I can also tell you that the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished.

If you want to sally, you're going to have to move out of range of the walls, making it much more risky.

And then he posted this answer to a follow up post...

Frogmop, even your artificially inflated intelligence should have been able to pick up on the subtle little hint I gave: "...the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished."

In fact, the AI does just what you suggest. The only time it comes in to the walls now is after it has routed all of your troops and is chasing you back to the city. Even then, in many cases it will stop short.

Clearly this is GREAT news for sally/siege battles. I only hope regular tactical battles have been given similar treatment.

Nigel
01-27-2005, 19:48
That sounds very promising.

I particularly like that
"Custom battles in both single player and multiplayer involving multiple armies of the same faction are now supported. "
This will now allow us to stage historical battle reenactments and the like. As for not having the Uber-faction all on one side, I guess it is up to the decency of the players in MP not to do that.


"Armies of the same faction must all be on the same team."
Still a pity with the limitation, that we cant have e.g. two Germanic tribes fighting each other.


And like many others have said, I hope they have fixed the bug with the replays not replaying correctly and just forgot to mention it in the readme.

Old Celt
01-27-2005, 19:48
This is all swell news. Does anyone have a source to tell when the patch is actually going to be available? I've looked at the official site and can find nothing but this list and the statement that it will be "soon".

FURRY_BOOTS
01-27-2005, 20:04
YEEEE-HAAAA :charge:

am goanna uninstall & reinstall for this

zhuge
01-27-2005, 20:08
There is a lot in this patch, and I suspect a lot more that isn't mentioned.


Indeed. An example would be the stamina and stat_heat bugs which according to Obake Date have been fixed.
See: http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=19897.topic
Scroll down page 3 to lt1956's question and Obake Date's answer.

Another example would be the sallying bug, where AI units would rush to the arrow towers and get themselves killed, which Spino has already mentioned in a post above.


Some of the more important fixes are IMHO:
· Allowed AI armies to move again after executing an attack
· Reinforcement AI – AI Generals are now less suicidal
· Allowed troops defending the plaza to leave the plaza if being shot at
· Units with shields can now effectively shield themselves when marching.
· Allowed troops defending a city with no walls to leave the wall boundary
· Navies are now more likely to blockade enemy ports
· You can now sally out against a besieging army only once per turn
· Losing or drawing army withdrawing now reforms with all it's routed units as long as there are enough soldiers to reform the army

These seem like major additions/fixes as well but I'm not entirely sure what they mean:
· Battle editor enabled – can be accessed by entering command line switch –enable_editor
· Changes to campaign AI strength evaluation


Some very nice balance features and fixes:
· Increased the fatigue combat penalties by 50% to make them more noticeable
· Fixed missile collision code to reduce friendly fire casualties
· Numerous fixes to the testudo formation, particularly movement in cities, colliding with other testudos and getting stuck in the reform task
· Extermination cash reward reduced
· Birthplace, marriages, and adoptions can be at other settlements now, not just capital. New characters will appear in the settlement where their father (or father in law in the case of marriage, and adopted-father in the case of adoption) is garrisoned
· Improved the AI unit re-training behavior less depleted stacks then
· Improved likelihood of AI sallying
· Brigands now more active - they will move around more often
· Brigands now have the option of attempting to conquer human-controlled settlements on difficulty levels hard and very hard
· Increased frequency of ambushes
· Post Marius upgraded bodyguard units are now working
· Command stars will not be assigned in battle when the odds are overwhelming in favor of the winner and vice versa for the loser


I am glad that they nerfed bribery:
· You cannot bribe a family member back after another faction has bribed them. He is disinherited from any of his former factions
· Cannot bribe fellow Romans anymore whilst you're allied
· Bribery costs increased to double and also according to the wealth of the briber

I'm not entirely sure whether this is enough. I might have increased the cost still more but it's a certainly a big step in the right direction.


· Fixed many trait and ancillary issues
Hopefully they caught all of them. Otherwise, modders can still fix them, so it isn't that big a deal.


The Ludus Magna may have to revise a few topics depending on how much was changed. It would be nice to get a complete patch readme as it would be a chore checking everything again. Notable points are:
· Limited the effect of squalor on public order to 100% max
· Maximum chance of assassination and sabotage is changed from 100% to 95% to stop assassins assassinating everything.
Perhaps therother and RedKnight can double check these when the patch arrives.


I'm not sure if they have missed anything really major but based on the fixes outlined, the patch appears to be certainly worth the wait and I hope we will find replaying RTW to be quite a different experience.
Would be nice to take out that bug list and start crossing out stuff that have been addressed to see what's left or wasn't mentioned.

Turbo
01-27-2005, 20:11
The biggest problem with the patch is the lack of modding support. RTW as it stands today is less moddable than MTW.

Nevertheless, the patch seems to do a decent job of addressing many of the broken features. I will keep my fingers crossed that the bug with the AI dancing in front of city walls during sallys is fixed (didn't see it listed).

dedmoroz
01-27-2005, 20:27
Some good news regarding the tactical AI. Obake Date just posted this at the com...

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=19903.topic

Re: Whoaa! Please dont sabotage sallying CA!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the issues surrounding this was the AI's tendency to charge you and get annihilated by the towers on the walls. Players would do this, rinse and repeat until the besiegers were decimated at virtually no loss to the besieged.

Dropping the number of sally's eliminates this potential, thereby improving gameplay. I can also tell you that the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished.

If you want to sally, you're going to have to move out of range of the walls, making it much more risky.

And then he posted this answer to a follow up post...

Frogmop, even your artificially inflated intelligence should have been able to pick up on the subtle little hint I gave: "...the likelihood of the AI charging up to the walls is now GREATLY diminished."

In fact, the AI does just what you suggest. The only time it comes in to the walls now is after it has routed all of your troops and is chasing you back to the city. Even then, in many cases it will stop short.

Clearly this is GREAT news for sally/siege battles. I only hope regular tactical battles have been given similar treatment.

OMG !!! OMFG !!!
will they realy fix that?????
Thank you God, this is the happiest day of my life!

Please for the love of Banana Split somebody confirm that this AI behavior will be fixed:


No fix to the family members strolling around lonely while the arge armeis are controlled by captains.

Akka
01-27-2005, 20:58
Looks promising so far :)

I'm just disappointed that bribing is only doubled (honestly, ten times bigger would be adequate), and that no action was taken to diminish the insane flow of money you can get quickly.

I strongly hope also that diplomacy was tweaked quite a bit to make it worthwile.

Spino
01-27-2005, 21:24
Yet another post by Obake Date...

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessageRange?topicID=19897.topic&start=61&stop=80

Re: Patch Details
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had dawn battles Prometheus. No sunset battles yet though, although this is more likely due to random happenstance than anything else. I HAVE had late afternoon battles as well. Point being that the time of battles IS varied.

There are a few things in the patch that are going to have a HUGE overall impact on battles. First and foremost is the resolution of the Pri/Sec bug. That alone will make a big difference. It will also require a bit more micromanagment in some cases, particularly with dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry. Secondly is a fix that CA implemented in the use of shields. This was something that the community didn't pick up on, but many units were not using their shields correctly, in particular when marching. This made them exceptionally vulnerable to arrow fire. This change is going to make ranged fire less overwhelming. It will STILL be effective if handled correctly, but nowhere near as devastating as it is under 1.1.

With these and other changes that were implemented, you'll find that battles can be much more challenging and they are DEFINITELY more tactical in nature.

I'm a little confused by his statement regarding dual weapon cavalry. Why should we have to micromanage dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry at all? I thought they were supposed to automatically switch to their secondary weapon? Can anyone provide testimony as to whether the AI automatically switches to secondary weapons? I must assume this will not be in the patch.

Bob the Insane
01-27-2005, 21:31
I'm a little confused by his statement regarding dual weapon cavalry. Why should we have to micromanage dual weapon, non-ranged cavalry at all? I thought they were supposed to automatically switch to their secondary weapon? Can anyone provide testimony as to whether the AI automatically switches to secondary weapons? I must assume this will not be in the patch.


I was my understanding that the patch was delayed to implement a fix for that very issue... I can only guess that the comment on micromanagement is based on the fact that a lot of units will get there arses handed to them if they get into hand to hand fighting....

Chelifer
01-27-2005, 22:14
Fixed missile collision code to reduce friendly fire casualties.

What does this mean exactly?

ChaosLord
01-27-2005, 22:15
If I had to guess, i'd say it means units directly infront of archers/peltasts/slingers(or intermingled with them) won't get shot in the back. I don't think they would make friendly arrows lest likely to kill when shooting into a big melee battle.

Red Harvest
01-27-2005, 22:34
Yes, the devil is in the details with FF. There are several things they *should* have done particularly in the logic of fire at will. It doesn't sound like they changed the FAW logic, but I hope to be proven incorrect. And the fire command delay. That is the other absolutely maddening aspect.

Grand Duke Vytautas
01-27-2005, 22:36
Oh my God! Can't wait no longer for the patch! These news are just so great! Can't wait for a real ai challenge! ~D

aw89
01-27-2005, 22:50
Yay! whoho! patch, got to reinstall rtw when it comes out, should i reformat the whole computer?

now im going to read my book, go to sleep, drag through the entire day at school and run home for news on the patch... (go nothing better to do... hehe)

ulyanov
01-27-2005, 23:05
I don't have a problem with the cease fire delay - experienced units stop firing smartly, less experienced don't. That's pretty normal, really.

One thing I didn't see - the Wonder bonus dropping off after 4 turns.

CBR
01-27-2005, 23:20
Friendly fire is no longer a problem. You have to give the order to fire at an engaged enemy unit.


CBR

Chelifer
01-27-2005, 23:31
Friendly fire is no longer a problem. You have to give the order to fire at an engaged enemy unit.
CBR

You mean, say archers will not fire at an engaged unit unless directly ordered?
That would be good too, probably.

CBR
01-27-2005, 23:35
Yes they automatically stop. Even if giving the order to do it, some men might not shoot if they are too close to a friendly soldier that blocks the view. It can still give lots of friendly fire so you still have to be careful.

One example: If you have several javelin armed units standing behind a friendly unit the unit right behind it might not shoot at all while those standing further back will shoot (and hit friendlies too)


CBR

Spino
01-27-2005, 23:40
Yes, the devil is in the details with FF. There are several things they *should* have done particularly in the logic of fire at will. It doesn't sound like they changed the FAW logic, but I hope to be proven incorrect. And the fire command delay. That is the other absolutely maddening aspect.

I'll have a minor fit if I see missile troops killing guys in their own unit. It's such a ridiculous issue.

Locklear
01-27-2005, 23:43
The "minimal UI" option in preferences.txt sounds interesting. Will try that right away, maybe it'll bring back the translucent STW/MTW interface.

Akka
01-27-2005, 23:44
Yes they automatically stop. Even if giving the order to do it, some men might not shoot if they are too close to a friendly soldier that blocks the view. It can still give lots of friendly fire so you still have to be careful.

One example: If you have several javelin armed units standing behind a friendly unit the unit right behind it might not shoot at all while those standing further back will shoot (and hit friendlies too)


CBR
Ah, well, so in other words, they came back with the flawless MTW system ? :D

Kraxis
01-28-2005, 01:16
CBR, have you been in on a little patchtesting? Not that I'm questioning you or something (you know me), but you seem rather confident in your posts.

I mean you were rather positive towards a fix of the phalanx drift and now the FF issue.

Anyway, I'm happy that the FF issue has been noticed at least, but I fear that archers standing behind slinger (obvious place) will still kill slingers when the enemy gets close or is at the bottom of a hill.

And te phalanx drift. Well if CA had made it as a feature they would most likely not 'fix' it as it was their intention.

CBR
01-28-2005, 01:43
Yes you are correct, I was part of the team testing the patch.

Although Im still not a fan of the high speed in RTW the minimal UI along with better grouping and FF fixed makes battles a lot better.


CBR

Kraxis
01-28-2005, 01:49
Ahhh good.

Then I believe you when you say the drift has been 'fixed'. THE question is just how much? Can we now use Guard? For I hate to see my phalanxes turn after they have engaged a few men on their far end, and thus open my carefully ordered battleline.

About the FF, do the archers still kill men in other units if they have to shoot through it (because they have to aim quite low), or can they now shoot upwards like catapults and archers in MTW?

CBR
01-28-2005, 02:11
I dont see any drift at all. They spend a few seconds looking at the enemy, shuffling a bit, and then go forward to engage. Phalanx v phalanx is pretty bloody.

I dont think I have seen any FF or maybe very little in the situation you mention. Archers seem to be a lot more careful where they shoot.

But you will see for yourself when the patch comes.


CBR

Red Harvest
01-28-2005, 02:13
Great info, CBR. I've got a list of questions over at the .com. If I bring them over here would you be able/willing to answer some or are you restricted?

Do archers/slingers still shoot umpteen ranks deep or are they limited to the first several rows?

I am very glad to hear they implemented a FAW/FF system similar to MTW. It might not have been perfect, but I had few complaints about it.

CBR
01-28-2005, 02:36
Well I have signed a NDA and I might have said too much already so lets leave it at that shall we ~:)

Archers work in same way as before.

As you can see from list a lot of things have been fixed and overall I think its a great patch. And I need a break heh


CBR

Kraxis
01-28-2005, 02:37
I dont see any drift at all. They spend a few seconds looking at the enemy, shuffling a bit, and then go forward to engage. Phalanx v phalanx is pretty bloody.

I dont think I have seen any FF or maybe very little in the situation you mention. Archers seem to be a lot more careful where they shoot.

But you will see for yourself when the patch comes.


CBR
I must say I'm stunned :stunned: This is great! Not only do the phalanxes fight head on now, they even get in there and fight unlike before! Now I will never leave my beloved Seleucids again!!! :sweetheart:

Have you tried a situation where the phalanx has to fight in a square? They often drop out of formation for no reason as it is now.

Red... Lets drain him of any useful info and discard the empty husk. :sneaky:

Kraxis
01-28-2005, 02:39
Well I have signed a NDA and I might have said too much already so lets leave it at that shall we ~:)

CBR
Oh... ok then... You shall retain your husk. ~D

Grifman
01-28-2005, 03:58
That's one hell of a list, especially when you consider that it's only a preliminary one!

No mention of whether the strategic AI has been adjusted to build far fewer naval units! I must assume this will be in the patch because countless people have complained about it. Strange as it sounds to the uninitiated this is a critical issue that must be addressed in the campaign game!

Yeah, that was one of the one's I was really looking for. The AI wasted tremendous resources on fleets while I destroyed their armies. I really hope they fixed this one - it wouldn't seem that hard. Though it does seem now that that AI will actually use its fleets now.

Grifman

AntiochusIII
01-28-2005, 05:08
Wait a minute. If they USE their whole massive fleets on a true onslaught wouldn't I got NO chance of survival at all in the seas this time?

(That stupid seer's accent.) Oh no... Oh Baal, please help me, I'll sacrifice my neighbor's son, I promise!

Never mind me. At least the patch is out... WAHOOO!!!!!

I just hope that there's more than what the readme says.

Red Harvest
01-28-2005, 05:31
If the naval auto resolve has been fixed (and we can only hope) then we should have a fighting chance. Presently, as it is on VH/VH, I keep literally 4 or 5 boats and do careful hops with armies. The rest of the time they stay in port... I don't have a chance at winning in autoresolve, against the hordes of barbarian fleets (or hordes of Romans.) The rebels often have pirate fleets larger than my own.

Too bad CBR can't talk...I'm hoping that transferring units by sea will require more boats... That would make navies important.

BalkanTourist
01-28-2005, 09:25
Has anyone reported that bug or is it just me? I was playing the Seleucids and my capital was besieged and had maximum units in it. A mature son appears...........near Rome!!!!!!! How am I supposed to get him where I need him?! I hope that has been fixed as well! Also, I was wondering why my Egyptian generals were dying so fast. After I lost like 3 or 4 easily, I stopped using my generals in battle at all.
P.S. The more I play RTW, the more I regret wasting my $50 on it. I think I am re-installing MTW:VI and hope for MTW2.

Colovion
01-28-2005, 10:37
*crosses fingers*

Kraxis
01-28-2005, 12:58
Also, I was wondering why my Egyptian generals were dying so fast. After I lost like 3 or 4 easily, I stopped using my generals in battle at all.
It is adressed... Didn't you read the readme? The Egyptian generals now get the proper hitpoints.

Cardboard Cock
01-28-2005, 13:31
When is this patch coming out, exactly? When a video game developer says "soon" it can mean almost anything. ~:)

aw89
01-28-2005, 16:14
In a year or two i guess

Blitz
01-28-2005, 16:22
Yeah should be soon now (growing white hair all around) , :rtwyes:

drone
01-28-2005, 17:50
Did they fix the grain import/export bug?

The naval changes are going to change the whole campaign dynamic. Let's see:

Larger AI fleets means tougher combat
Less 1 ship fleets means fewer (easy) chances to gain crew XP
Less 1 ship fleets means its a little easier to move around
Combat stars for admirals, woohoo
AI blocakdes ports, this probably means we can't hide small fleets in ports either

The autoresolve fixes hopefully will give us a chance. Looks like its going to be very important to get started early on naval domination. No mention on whether the AI has reduced the urge to build millions of ships in the first place though.

A lot of good fixes mentioned, can't wait to see for myself.

Colovion
01-28-2005, 20:07
Has anyone reported that bug or is it just me? I was playing the Seleucids and my capital was besieged and had maximum units in it. A mature son appears...........near Rome!!!!!!! How am I supposed to get him where I need him?! I hope that has been fixed as well! Also, I was wondering why my Egyptian generals were dying so fast. After I lost like 3 or 4 easily, I stopped using my generals in battle at all.
P.S. The more I play RTW, the more I regret wasting my $50 on it. I think I am re-installing MTW:VI and hope for MTW2.

Dear Members of the Org:

When responding to such threads as these - READ IT.

The readme clearly states that the new heirs will be popping up in the settlement where their fathers are garrisoned. Also - your other question has been answered.

Sincerely,

Colovion

SpencerH
01-28-2005, 20:26
I'm a little disappointed that the bogus inf running speeds has not been mentioned (its not a game ender but it is irritating to see inf run away from my pursuing cav across a open plain). Will the changes to fatigue influence differerent units differently, or will they be across the board effects?

The Stranger
01-28-2005, 20:57
'damn that list was long but i hope it will be an improvemend

Turbo
01-28-2005, 21:01
Yes you are correct, I was part of the team testing the patch.

Although Im still not a fan of the high speed in RTW the minimal UI along with better grouping and FF fixed makes battles a lot better.


CBR


I was hoping that they were going to slow the combat speed down or at least provide a speed control switch.

Sam Adams
01-30-2005, 06:47
i hope the siege time limit is increased a bit...

Turin
01-30-2005, 06:55
Does this patch address the stamina bug?

It says the effects of fatigue are increased, but nothing about fixing the stamina bug!

Oh yeah! And WTF no open source?

Suraknar
01-30-2005, 07:33
· Stopped men on bridges from panicking (thus leading to mass extinctions).

I like the Ironical Humor here ;)

Overall, can;t wait for the patch! Has some elements that will require adaptation of Tactics and Strategy changes! :charge:

BalkanTourist
01-30-2005, 09:57
Dear Members of the Org:

When responding to such threads as these - READ IT.

The readme clearly states that the new heirs will be popping up in the settlement where their fathers are garrisoned. Also - your other question has been answered.

Sincerely,

Colovion

Dear Fellow Member,
I too took the time to read the READ ME file thoroughly. But thanks for the advice anyway. My only problem was the family member popping near Rome when the city where he was supposed to appear was under siege and the army slots were full. That happened to me while playing the Seulecids. I do remember my first campaign with the Julii when a fem member of the Seulecids popped up near Rome and was wandering on my territory (I ended up killing him and thus destroying the faction). I am aware the chariot issue is resolved. I just completed a campaign with the Egyptians and noticed something fishy about their chariots and I was sharing my frustration.
Anyway, PM if you have anything else smart to say. No need to hijack the thread.

CBR
01-30-2005, 13:23
Stamina bugs (heat and standard fatigue) should be fixed.


CBR

Jertsy
01-30-2005, 20:41
The "minimal UI" option in preferences.txt sounds interesting. Will try that right away, maybe it'll bring back the translucent STW/MTW interface.

Yeah.. thats my fav part.. Hopefully we can have a "full" battle view now without an annoying GUI....
Sweet..

Jertsy
01-30-2005, 20:43
Yes you are correct, I was part of the team testing the patch.
Although Im still not a fan of the high speed in RTW the minimal UI along with better grouping and FF fixed makes battles a lot better.
CBR

Can you expand on what "minimal UI" means please m8...

Cheers..

CBR
01-30-2005, 20:59
Essentially its like STW/MTW design: one row of unit icons at bottom of screen and command buttons at the top and F keys can be used to hide the different parts, unit icons, commands and radar.


CBR

Colovion
01-30-2005, 21:32
Essentially its like STW/MTW design: one row of unit icons at bottom of screen and command buttons at the top and F keys can be used to hide the different parts, unit icons, commands and radar.


CBR

sweet sweeeeet candy ~:cheers:

Nigel
01-31-2005, 00:04
Originally Posted by CBR
Yes you are correct, I was part of the team testing the patch.

Hey, that is putting the right man in the right job.

Well done CA ~D

Simetrical
01-31-2005, 00:22
What exactly does your NDA say, CBR? Don't want to feel guilty about getting you in trouble. ~D

-Simetrical

CBR
01-31-2005, 12:50
Hey, that is putting the right man in the right job.

Well done CA ~D

Thx for the kind words Nigel. Lets see if you still mean it when you see the patch ~D



What exactly does your NDA say, CBR? Don't want to feel guilty about getting you in trouble.

Nah dont you worry, although I have wondered about that black van parked outside...


CBR

HicRic
01-31-2005, 16:12
Looks like a great patch, it's great to see so much work has been put in to improve the game. ~:)

I wonder if with the minimal UI in the vein of STW/MTW will also allow us to use the same controls as those games? (Except for the left/right click change which was great).

I look forward to the release of the patch! I hope it's soon.

Nigel
01-31-2005, 19:09
Thx for the kind words Nigel. Lets see if you still mean it when you see the patch
Don't worry, the patch may well see the end of CA-bashing and the beginning of CBR-bashing
~;)

But seriously, I am really looing forward to it.

Simetrical
02-01-2005, 01:25
Does the AI still fail to use generals for its large armies? Presently it often just uses captains for major attacks, hurting its chances of winning.

-Simetrical

Orvis Tertia
02-01-2005, 03:00
Nah dont you worry, although I have wondered about that black van parked outside...CBR

That's just the cat-detector van, making sure you have a cat license. nudge. wink.