Upgrading my computer

[The_Doctor]

At present I have:
2GHz processor
256Mb of RAM- It might be DDR, It says DIMM on a systems information program
GeForce 4200Ti 64Mb AGP graphics card

I want 512 DDR RAM and a more powerful grapgics card, but I have become confused (This doesn't often) with types of RAM and interface types.

I need to know what type of RAM to buy and what is TV(I will assume this is something to do with a television) and DVI is.

I have an elitegroup VIA KT266-8235 L7VMM2 motherboard.

[BDC]

Look at your ram stick, it should say what type it is (I mean physically look). Get the same type again.

Graphics card wise you should be fine with any AGP card out there.

[hundurinn]

Depends how much money you are willing to spend on a graphic card. I'd recommend ATI 9800 PRO or XT it's possible to get the Pro for around 200$
9800 PRO for 209$ Here (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-281&depa=0)

[The_Doctor]

Ok, I am going insane now. :help:

I found out what type of RAM I have:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DRAM/DDRSDRAM/DDRSDRAMcomponent/256Mbit/K4H560838F/K4H560838F.htm

And what type of motherboard:
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWeb/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?MenuID=24&LanID=8&DetailID=321&DetailName=Specification

The RAM is nigh on impossible to find, so I will get a different type of RAM. Would this work:
http://www.pcwcomponentcentre.co.uk/invt/dramvaluevdl3264q&bklist=icat,4,shop,e,ea

[hundurinn]

I may be mistaken and maybe someone alse has a better knowlede on this but as I see it you can't use that memory. You got 166 Mhz clock memory in your computer and the other one is 133 Mhz. I'd think it would not work but as I said I may be mistaken.

[The_Doctor]

It says 266 on the motherboard website. I thought it was up to 266, everything below it was ok. I might be wrong though.

[hundurinn]

I belive you have to have the same type of memory. My motherboard supports 266 and 333 Mhz memories. I have 333 Mhz so if I wanted to upgrade I have to buy 333 Mhz since 266 can't run with 333.

[KukriKhan]

These guys:
http://www.crucial.com/promo/index.asp?prog=desktop2

will help you sort your memory questions.

They are reliable, I promise.

Vid card upgrades depend on your motherboard configuration and its available slots (AGP, PCI, PCI-express).

If you post here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=15

our resident tech guys will give you more info than you ever thought you wanted. :)

[fret]

RE: Memory, CPU and FSB Clock Speeds

It is usually acceptable to put a 233MHz DIMM and a 133MHz DIMM into the same motherboard, provding the MB, CPU are not operating at a faster speed than the lowest memory chip. It is not ideal to mis-match clock speeds like this because you are restricting performance of certain componants as they get automaticaly stepped down to the speed of the slowest componant.

Further explanation: A decent motherboard will never be fixed at a single Front Side Bus speed. For example, the currrent latest mobo's that run at 800MHz, will also run at 533MHz and 400MHz. The important factor is that the CPU and Mobo are matched (if you put a CPU with a FSB of 533MHz into an 800MHz FSB mobo, you are restricting the system because the 533MHz FSB CPU will slow down the whole system to 533MHz (which equates to 133MHz SDRAM memory speed, or 266MHz DDR SDRAM memory speed)

So if you have an 800MHz FSB motherboard, a 533MHz FSB CPU, a 512MB PC3200 (400MHz) DIMM, and a 512MB PC2700 (266MHz) DIMM, the whole system will run at 533MHz. In this scenario, the motherboard is stepped down to 533MHz because of the processer, and the DDR400 memory will be stepped down to 266MHz because the mis-matched DIMM, therefore the entire system will be running with an FSB of 533MHz - restrictions that reduce the overall system performance by approximately 34%. Note: not all memory modules will allow step down, although most half decent ones should be acceptable. Note(2): you can put memory of a faster speed than the FSB into a system,and you will get minor performance gains, but not much because theres not much point in having memory running at 533MHz when the motherboard cant transfer the data to the processor at that speed.

If all that was meaningless to you, just stick your memory in and swich your PC on, it wont do any damage if its incorrect, the PC will just fail the POST (power on self test), beep annoyingly, and not do anything else until you switch it of, remove the offending memory, and switch back on again.

[The_Doctor]

I think I am working out this RAM stuff.

My motherboard needs DDR DIMM that is 266Mhz(PC2700) runs on 2.5 volts and is DDR SDRAM.

So the DDR DIMM is the type of interface.
the 266Mhz is the speed
the 2.5 volts is the power supply
the DDR SDRAM is the type of RAM.

Is this correct?

[fret]

I think I am working out this RAM stuff.

My motherboard needs DDR DIMM that is 266Mhz(PC2700) runs on 2.5 volts and is DDR SDRAM.

So the DDR DIMM is the type of interface.
the 266Mhz is the speed
the 2.5 volts is the power supply
the DDR SDRAM is the type of RAM.

Is this correct?

Not bad ~:)

The full name of the memory would be PC2700 266MHz DDR SDRAM DIMM

Working from the back end of that giant list of acronyms....

DIMM - is the type of interface - Dual In-Line Memory Module

SDRAM - is the type of memory - Synchronous Dynamic Random Access Memory (the synchronous bit refers to the module transporting date in both directions simultaneously)

DDR - is Double Data Rate - the memory can send twice as much data per clock cycle, resulting in lower possible cas latency timings (such as 2-2-2-1 etc)

266MHz - the internal speed of the memory, should be matched to the the same speed of, in the case od DDR - (motherboard FSB / 4) * 2 , if it was normal SDRAM and not DDR SDRAM the equation would be (motherboard FSB / 4), because the memry isnt operating at double data rate.

PC2700 - a unique referance to the speed of the module, for marketing purposes i presume - i have no idea what, if there is any, the logic is behind the PCxxxx numbering syste is.

Voltage is largely irrelivant to most users, unless you are going to be seriously overclocking systems.

[Placid Tramp]

266Mhz is the maximum clock speed for the ram.
the PCxxxx rating is the theoretical speed of the ram in Mbps, for 266Mhz ram it's actually PC2100.

In theory, any system that uses SDRAM can use memory that is rated faster than the requirements of the motherboard, as well as memory of the correct speed. So you can get faster ram than you need & it'll work fine (in theory) ~:)

[The_Doctor]

Thanks for all the help. ~:)
I have sorted things out now.

[The_Doctor]

I have decided to buy:

2 if these
http://www.pcwcomponentcentre.co.uk/bin/venda?ex=co_disp-shopc&invt=dramvaluevdt6464q&buy=dramvaluevdt6464q&mode=add&log=22&curpage=&bsref=componentcentre&bklist=invt,5,shop,e,eb,dramvaluevdt6464q

and 1 of these
http://www.pcwcomponentcentre.co.uk/invt/pvt34kuahg&bklist=icat,4,shop,f,fa

The graphic card is out of stock so I will wait a week or two until I buy them.

Can anybody see any problems with these items.

[Clips]

One thing to make sure you look for on RAM is the power or voltage amounts for example if your pc processor is running at 333Mhz then you need to get PC3600 or something close RAM wise, havent gone through this in ages ^^
Problem is many wh o are new to pcs dont understand to look for certain settings such as FSB (front side bus) speeds and voltages and so many people who are using decent stuff in there pc's arent even running it all at the correct speeds for there components to be worthwhile.

[The_Doctor]

The is 266Mhz and my motherboard is 266Mhz, but the voltage is 3.3 and my motherboard is 2.5. But fret said

Voltage is largely irrelivant to most users, unless you are going to be seriously overclocking systems..

[KukriKhan]

I have decided to buy:

2 if these
http://www.pcwcomponentcentre.co.uk/bin/venda?ex=co_disp-shopc&invt=dramvaluevdt6464q&buy=dramvaluevdt6464q&mode=add&log=22&curpage=&bsref=componentcentre&bklist=invt,5,shop,e,eb,dramvaluevdt6464q

and 1 of these
http://www.pcwcomponentcentre.co.uk/invt/pvt34kuahg&bklist=icat,4,shop,f,fa

The graphic card is out of stock so I will wait a week or two until I buy them.

Can anybody see any problems with these items.
Those selections seem to match up with your mobo spec's. Looks good to me. Seems you found a good deal on the vid card.

[The_Doctor]

Seems you found a good deal on the vid card.

I agree. I was going for a 128Mb then I found this, which was cheap, powerful and works on my computer. The cheapness worries we though...

[Red Harvest]

I am not sure what to make of the "supply voltage: 3.3V." 3.3V is used for SDRAM. DDR DIMM's run 2.5 V and use their own internal voltage regulation from what I've read. You can give them more juice from motherboard jumpers or BIOS settings, but it is only likely to help if your motherboard's signal is poor. So the 3.3V listing has me baffled and appears to be a typo.

They have a DRAM Value PC100 PC133 listed as well with 3.3V...so it looks like they made a bad assumption/forgot to upgrade the fields for DDR.

A FX5200 looks like a downgrade from a GF4 Ti4200, sorry. Check out Toms Hardware Guide VGA CHARTS III (http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/index.html)

What you really want if you are looking to upgrade is a true DX9 card. The 5200 really can't do the DX9 shaders well--it actually does a poorer job of them than the GF4's (look at the Aquamark comparisions for pure DX9 benchmarking.)

Entry level for a true DX9 card is twice as much, something like the 9600XT (beware of other 9600's some have a stripped down memory bus--never buy an ATI card with "SE" in the name, they are crippled.)

[The_Doctor]

Thanks for the warning, I will keep looking

[fret]

I agree the 3.3 Voltage thing is a bit weird.

When I referred to the voltage only being necessary for overclocking, I was referring to the same thing as Red Harvest; where you can force the voltage supplied to the memory modules via the motherboard BIOS (on decent mobo's at least).

This is only used when you are seriously overclocking the memory, in the same way you need to increase CPU voltage, because if you want to run the module ~30%+ faster than its rated speed, the module will require greater voltage otherwise it wont get enough power to operate properly. The side effect of this is of course increased temperature.

[The_Doctor]

I agree the 3.3 Voltage thing is a bit weird.

I think they puy the wrong info on the website. They have done it with some of the graphics cards. Its say 8x AGP, but on the image of the box it says 4x/8x.

Next question: ATI or nVidia?

[fret]

Next question: ATI or nVidia?

Be careful when taking advise for this on a forum, its an area of choice that usually comes attached to extreme fanboyism.

For example, if you were to purchase one of the latest generation of cards (6800 / X800 ) I would say go with whichever you chose - the reason being that while the benchmarks and reviews will favour one card over another (ATI perform best with HL2 / DirectX9 ../.. Nvidia perform best with Doom3 / OpenGL) , in reality, you will be gobsmacked by the performance of both cards - and aside from seeing a differant frames per second score when running benchies, you will barely be able to nitice the differance between the two.

Currently, if you want raw power in a single card - ATI have the lead with the X800 XT PE.

With features, Nvida have the lead, with its HDR implementation, support for Shader Model 3.0 etc.

If your talking budget cards, im sorry I cant advise, I would just echo what others have said and get a true DX9 card.

[The Witch-King]

Well, can't say I'm an expert in videocards, but I myself purchased an ASUS ATI Radeon 9600 XT for Rome:Total War which has performed very well. Keeping in mind that I only have a 1 Ghz PIII processor and 512 MB of SDRAM the game has run very smoothly thse last few months, so I can heartily recommend this card which has a very good price/quality ratio. Of course, if you're going to play games that require a heavy duty videocard (like Doom III, Halflife II etc.) you're probably better off buying a higher end card, like a 9800 XT. Keep in mind though that those cards will probably cost twice as much as a 9600 XT.

[The_Doctor]

Well, can't say I'm an expert in videocards, but I myself purchased an ASUS ATI Radeon 9600 XT for Rome:Total War which has performed very well. Keeping in mind that I only have a 1 Ghz PIII processor and 512 MB of SDRAM the game has run very smoothly thse last few months, so I can heartily recommend this card which has a very good price/quality ratio. Of course, if you're going to play games that require a heavy duty videocard (like Doom III, Halflife II etc.) you're probably better off buying a higher end card, like a 9800 XT. Keep in mind though that those cards will probably cost twice as much as a 9600 XT.

I play mainly strategy games, so having high specs is not that important. However the likes of Age of Empires 3 needs something powerful. I need something that will last just over a year, then I will get a new computer when I go to uni.

[Red Harvest]

It is probably best to determine what your price range is for vid cards before trying to decide which major manufacturer to go with, or even which card. I have not kept track of the latest generation of cards. I set my upgrade mark for vid cards as ~$200, when the best of a generation declines to that price, and if I am starting get squeezed by my old card, then I am ready to buy. As a result I've been using a 9800 Pro for the past year or so. Prior to that it was an 8500.

I'm not trying to steer you toward ATi or NVidia in particular. Determine the constraints you have budget wise, then look through some of the comparison benchmarks and decide where you want to spend the money. The sweet spot moves around.

With my several year old AthlonXP 2400+/266 FSB system it wouldn't make any sense adding more vid card muscle, as I'm starting to hit other limits. When I built the system I bought a new 8500 for it, but now that is my ancient 133 FSB SDRAM system (upgraded with an XP2100+.)

[fret]

Some good advice found here (http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=111429) on buying cards, including a few pitfalls. Its pretty brief but has some good info in their, and the board is normally full of geeks who know a lot about vid cards ~:)

[The Witch-King]

I play mainly strategy games, so having high specs is not that important. However the likes of Age of Empires 3 needs something powerful. I need something that will last just over a year, then I will get a new computer when I go to uni.

Well, if you're going to buy a new computer over a year I wouldn't spend too much money on one of the newer videocards for now. What kind of budget do you have in mind?

[The_Doctor]

A maximum of 100 pounds (Pound sign does not work, instead I get #).

[Spetulhu]

A maximum of 100 pounds (Pound sign does not work, instead I get #).

Watch the prices closely. I've notice that UK dealers (in anything) add the taxes separately. If you go for the full 100£ they'll add 17% VAT.

[Tocca]

I would buy and install the 256MB RAM first, and try it out. Spending max £100 on a graphic card won't get you that much improvement over your TI4200 in my view.
You'll get a newer card of course, with support for newer features, but not that much boost to speed i think.

You'll need to spend around £150 to really get a graphic card that will outshine your 4200 enough for it to be worth the money (again, in my opinion).
Then again, i haven't checked pricelevels for a couple of months (since i bought my new PC)... maybe there's some new fast budgetcards in the £100 range that i don't know about.

The added RAM might very well increase your performance in RTW a lot though! With only 256MB your PC probably runs out of memory in intensive situations, and when that happens it uses your HD instead (virtual memory) and that's MUCH slower.