Javelins have more punch?

[Red Harvest]

Is it just me or with 1.2 do javelins seem more effective to the rest of you? I am not referring to the FF changes. The javelinmen/peltasts are definitely easier to use because of friendly fire being addressed, but I am also finding that individual volleys seem to pack more punch than before. They still are a bit slow with the first volley, but I'm actually using them quite a bit when I have them. The AI is not as inclined to rush my javelins as it is archers so I can do a bit of cat-and-mouse skirmishing. Sometimes the AI will even send out its own peltasts and counter-skirmish for awhile (imagine that?)

I was going to mod them very slightly to give them a little more range solely so they had a better chance of getting off a volley at oncoming troops, but right now, I'm not certain that it is necessary. I had changed them from 50 to 65 in 1.1 and was pleased with the effect, but I was thinking about trying 55 or 60 for 1.2.

[QwertyMIDX]

I noticed it too, I'm looking my peltasts and skirmisers have been kicking serious ass, I've been using them a lot more now. I'm not sure how far a guy could actucally throw a light jav but I would be hesitent to change it before I found it, I don't want the range being too ridiculous.
Also, have you noticed how kick ass they are when on top of a small hill, a rather gradual incline seems to nearly double their range...

[Red Harvest]

The only reason I would do the range adjustment (and the only reason I did it in 1.1) was because of the silly delay before the first volley. I really wish I could mod that, because that is the part that is still a sticking point.

I have considered doing a 5 to 10 bump up for pila as well. For both javelin and pila current the static "effective" range looks about right from what I've read, but due to movement speed and the odd delays their "stand off range" is much too low.

When I modded range before, I left the mounted javelins untouched, because they could handle it quite well.

[RollingWave]

Yes, it seems more effective espically downhill... and since it ff a bit less now it's more usable to send them up from behind and throw into the melee.

I find that unless u are facing a army of nothing but phalanx though it seems pointless and often even counter productive to skrimish mode them....

[hrvojej]

Did you mod the range or the power? For how much? I'm also having problems to get my units throw their pila/fire a javelin volley before the enemy crashes into them. However, I wouldn't want to make them Zelezny incarnates in other situations... I added +5 to the range, but they're still having problems.

[Red Harvest]

Did you mod the range or the power? For how much? I'm also having problems to get my units throw their pila/fire a javelin volley before the enemy crashes into them. However, I wouldn't want to make them Zelezny incarnates in other situations... I added +5 to the range, but they're still having problems.

I haven't modded them at all yet in 1.2. I've been trying to get an overall feel for what impact it might have on gameplay before doing so. (I did mod buildable slinger range to 100 though. The imbalance between slingers and archers in western armies is very much wrong.) When I used 65 for javelin in 1.1 it worked very well. Another person told me that 60 worked decently too in 1.1. Even against a charge, I think they should be able to throw once then run. The pila are going to be tough because of the command delay. I don't know whether or not it would have been practical to get off a pila volley vs. a charging enemy. However, at present I can often reach the line with a phalanx before they throw their volley--and that seems a little whacked.

[Proletariat]

Is it just me or with 1.2 do javelins seem more effective to the rest of you?


If I may throw out some complete anecdotal evidence (haven't tested this), absolutely. I had never seen elephant units route from merely recieveing javelin fire before. Very interested in any adjustments you make, Red Harvest.

[The Stranger]

Is it just me or with 1.2 do javelins seem more effective to the rest of you? I am not referring to the FF changes. The javelinmen/peltasts are definitely easier to use because of friendly fire being addressed, but I am also finding that individual volleys seem to pack more punch than before. They still are a bit slow with the first volley, but I'm actually using them quite a bit when I have them. The AI is not as inclined to rush my javelins as it is archers so I can do a bit of cat-and-mouse skirmishing. Sometimes the AI will even send out its own peltasts and counter-skirmish for awhile (imagine that?)

I was going to mod them very slightly to give them a little more range solely so they had a better chance of getting off a volley at oncoming troops, but right now, I'm not certain that it is necessary. I had changed them from 50 to 65 in 1.1 and was pleased with the effect, but I was thinking about trying 55 or 60 for 1.2.

yes just like you have to aim before you trow a javelin. very stupid

[Baiae]

I had changed them from 50 to 65 in 1.1 and was pleased with the effect, but I was thinking about trying 55 or 60 for 1.2.

I've modded mine to 60 and they work exactly as I want them to. They won't tear an enemy army to shreads by themselves but they can do some significant damage if the enemy has no skirmishers.

The increase in their effectiveness may be something to do with the reduction I made in archer range.

[The Stranger]

I've modded mine to 60 and they work exactly as I want them to. They won't tear an enemy army to shreads by themselves but they can do some significant damage if the enemy has no skirmishers.

The increase in their effectiveness may be something to do with the reduction I made in archer range.

you can also reduce the delay between the attacks

[Hortensius]

could you please tell me wherabouts in the text i can change these values i.e 50/65 ................sorry but not well up on these things

Thanks :dizzy2:

[_Aetius_]

I love what CA has done for javelins in RTW they were near useless in MTW as you had to get within spitting range to throw them and skirmishers were often forced into melee, and there damage was low anyway. On RTW skirmishers and javelins as a whole are deadly weapons that can reduce units considerably before melee.

[Red Harvest]

you can also reduce the delay between the attacks

Yes, but that is not where the problem lies. The problem is the initial firing delay--lack of anticipation vs an approaching enemy. The initial fire delay should not be present. Essentially, the unit should be preparing to throw so that as soon as the enemy reaches the range, the first volley is in the air. This way they could throw and withdraw. Right now the target reaches range at 50 and the javelin unit withdraws when the target reaches ~30. The difference is only ~20. A charging foe covers that ground much more rapidly than the skirmish unit can complete its firing sequence. Modding the range to 60 adds ~50% more "reaction time" to the skirmisher.

[Red Harvest]

could you please tell me wherabouts in the text i can change these values i.e 50/65 ................sorry but not well up on these things

Thanks :dizzy2:

export_descr_units.txt in the data folder in RTW (back any file up first that you intend to mod.) There is explanation of what the numbers mean at the top of the folder--it is incomplete, but very helpful. The missile ranges will be under the stat_pri. Here is the line for head hurlers with 40 range.

stat_pri 17, 6, head, 40, 6, thrown, archery, fire, none, 25 ,1

It makes their fellow soldiers and citizens very nervous when they say they need to refill their ammo supply.