DukeofSerbia
02-19-2005, 18:30
I’m playing Rome Total War about two months and I noticed that game is almost totally unhistoric! The game is great – maybe the best I ever played, but… I have Latin in first two years in high school and I know a lot of about history. I will explain everything what I know that is false. What I don’t know, I will not write. Any suggestions are welcome! And I think Realism mod is good (I agree with something), but not good enough. I will explain what really was names of cities, provincies, units and starting positions of different faction in game in 270 BC. I excuse if I wrong translate something from Serbian and I will writte in Latin origin much as I can (too bad, there is no Latin keyboard in Windows XP). Lets start!
Romans
Senate and People of Rome
I have to admit that CA had make little mistakes (in compare to everything else) with Senate . Senate was in Republic no only counsel, but they conduct foreighn policy and solve problems in religion, finance and interior. This is ok when Senate says you to take that city, to start war with other nation, make alliance and their opinion about the others (in game - Senate policy). And administration is good – the state services were in hands of Magistratus and men work in Magistratus without to be payed (they worked for honour). Magistratus had two part: regular (consul, censor, preator, tribunus plebis, aediles and questor) and uncommon (dictator and magister equitum). Generally is ok (but there is no tribus plebis).
And starting province Latium is ok (Rome is Roma). No further objection.
Roman units
Historicly, Rome have five periods in their history: kingdom, republic (then was most powerfull), dictatorship (first and second Triumvirate), principate (emperor was first in Senate) and dominate (total rule in hands of one man – emperor). And in different time, they have differt types of units.
Military in Republic
Romans had four types of infantry and one of cavalry. Only Romans could serve in legions. Cities in Italy had allied status (they gave axilia troops) and areas out of Italy were provinces. Legion (3 600 men standard, but can go up to 6 000) had ten (decem) cohortes (10*360 men). Cohort had three manipuli (3*120 men – that was basic tactical unit) and manipul had two centuriae (2*60 men – become basic tactical unit after Marius reforms – manipuli were shuted down). Legion had help from 3 000 auxilia and 300 equites. Names of legions were Prima, Secunda, Tertia, Quartus etc. Until Marius, they had no stand alone legions – when Rome go in war they mobilised men and after war is finished, they disband them.
CA did great mistake – those are not Legionary, Urban and Praetorian Cohorts – those are centuriae (no mean that is in empire).
Types of infantry (everybody know that) were: Veles, Hastatus, Princeps and Triarius (original Latin names).
Veles – they look like as they were, but everything else is wrong . They had only three short ranged javelines, not a lot of them how CA made. And they had sling (I know, no one believe, but that is true) . The poorest young Romans were veles.
Hastatus – they look as they were, but there are some huge mistakes – why hastatus have no centurion and signifer? They had two javelines (pila Latin), but the first one was light and secound one was heavy. CA made both heavy . The younges Romans were hastatus.
Princeps – they look as they were, but they don’t have centurion (at least they have signifer). Same story about pila . Adult men were princeps and with hastatus were backbone of Republican legions.
Triarius – they look as they were. There are centurion and signifer. CA did job well .
Equites – they look as they were. They were light cavalry for scouting enemy when army marched, pursuing enemy and for hiting flanks. Equites had ten turma (30 men in each), but there is no prefect who commanded over turma (had same job like centurion) . Why?
Auxilia – they were slingers, archers and different types of cavarly. To accent – I don’t talk about auxilia in Rome TW how they look like. Those auxilia (in RTW) were in Empire (and after reform), not in Republic. One cohort of auxilia had between 500 to 1 000 men.
Huge mistakes of CA – Romans had no archers (romans archers didn’t exist) – archers auxilia are ok . And why Romans have no slingers auxilia? Auxilia cavalry how they looks like in game didn’t exist. They were like every other ordinary cavalry. Same for light auxilia. And who gave wardogs to Romans? Pigs?! I think somebody or somebodies in CA want to joke with total war fans (wardogs and pigs). I think CA created those units because Romans “allegedly” will be not strong enough. But Rome conquered until 104 BC (Marius reforms of army) Spain, Cartage, Greece, Macedon, south of Gaulia, Dalmatia and eastern Asia Minor.
Marius reforms
In the late of II century, Romans had great trouble with corruption and bribery. Famous Numidian king Jugurtha bribed optimati (aristocracy in Rome) and they had not attacked them (until Marius himself came and destroy Numidia). There is some evidence that he said when he were in Rome on negotiation: “Corrupted city which will be soon doom, only to find buyer.” (maybe is translation not so well ). Gai Marius 104 BC reformed military – every Roman had to serve in military 16 years. And it were stationary armies.
Those Early Legionares (not Cohort, as I wrote) are Marius reformed military. They look as they were , except pila (as I wrote) and no centurion.
Legionares (not Cohort) look like they looked in Empire, except (again) pila and lack of centurion.
Praetorian Cohort – real name is not correct (Praetorian Legionares was). There were ten cohorts and was established by first emperor Octavian Augustus. They served in Rome and were emperor’s bodyguards. They have centurion, but why is gone signifer? And they don’t look as they were . They have two version of uniforms: military (looked exactly as ordinary legionares, but on helmet had “mohawk” (know what I mean)) and solemn (like in Gladiator movie with Russel Crowe, with long red tunica on back (like ordinary centurion), lighter armour and as “mohawk” were longer as military version).
Urban Cohort – they didn’t exist. Every ordinary legion stationed in city was urban. In empire (especially in late empire) Romans built border forts to protect borders (without succes) and from that forts became towns by time. So, there were no urban legionares. And auxilia were on borders, too.
Roman Cavalry – they look exactly as they were, but no prefect (again).
Legionary and Praetorian Cavalry didn’t exist – who came on such idea? Romans used auxilia cavalry (not like in the game how I wrote) and mercenary cavalry (Gaul’s, Numidian’s, Sarmation when they weren’t in war, from many Germans tribes etc.). Very simple – Romans were master of infantry not cavalry! And master of siege equipments!
Siege equipments – they look as they were, but CA gave wrong names. The real names were next:
onagers and heavy onagers = catapulta (there are no onagers in the game – they looked different) – they thrown projectiles in horizontal way and onager (onagrus in Latin) thrown rocks.
I think the other ones have wrong names but when I check, I’ll be posted.
Gladiators – they never went in war. Logical, they fought against Romans, because they were Roman slaves (famous rebellions in Sicily 138 – 132 BC, 104 – 101 BC, Pergamus 132 – 129 BC and Capua 74 – 71 BC (Spartacus)).
Arcanii – I have no comment.
Suggestions to CA
Marius reform have to come exactly in 104 BC and Romans have to produce from start in barracks hastatus, princeps and triarius. Every unit that is historicly wrong to throw out (as I wrote which). Lack of cavalry – simple (this is not my original idea, but who think out, have wright) – just make heavy mercanary cavalry (barbarian noble and long shield from start and gothic later in game) and make that they faster respawn. Problem is solved! Like was in real life.
Apeninian Peninsula and Roman Families
Three famous families – good. I cann’t think out better. Anyone know what Brutus mean on Latin? It means fool. And this is not surname – it is nickname. And Scipiones is nickname (I don’t know meaning), too. Romans had three names: name (Marcus), surname (Manlius) and nickname (Capitolinus). Why is not like that in the game? Don’t ask me.
The real problem in Italy are provinces (plus Sicily). There have to be more provinces in Italy. Latium (Senate) as I wrote is ok.
North Italy
Umbria (Arretium) is ok. Owned by Julii - ok.
Etruria is ok, but town Ariminium not. Historicly there was Florentia (or better Pisae, Tarqunium). Owners are Julii – ok.
Venetia (Patavium) is ok. And Owners are ok (Gauls were under Alps).
Liguria too, but for town historicly (Segesta) is better Genua.
Cisalpine Gaul (Mediolanum) are correct and owners (Gauls).
Sicily – real mess.
Syrakuse is ok and belongs to Greeks – historicly true (Archimedes killed when Romans came in the city – Don’t touch my circles – he said, if I have right)
Lilybaeum – I never heard and I don’t find in any historic maps such city. I know there were Segesta (there belong Segesta or Segestica – no Segestica in Ilyria – somebody make huge mistake). And belonged to Carthage – so, that’s ok.
Messana (original Messena – when Greeks colonised Sicily they gave the same name to town from their came (there was Messena in Pelopponesus)) – this city belonged to Carthage in 270 BC. No Romans in 270 BC in Sicily. After First Poenic war (264 – 241 BC) Romans took Sicily for themselves. And Sardinia and Corsica too.
Sardinia
Sardinia (Caralis) is ok, but why Corsica is not province. There (on Corsica) were town Atalia. Owned by Carthage is correct by both.
South Italy
Campania (Capua) – historicly true (but better is Neapolis). Belongs to Scipii – ok.
Brutinium (Croton) - historicly true. Owned by Brutii – ok.
Apulia is correct, but Tarentum is not. Cannae is in Apulia and Tarentum is in Calabria.
My opinion – we need Calabria (Tarentum, maybe is better Brindisium) owned by Brutii and Apulia with Cannae owned by Scipii.
Balkan Peninsula (Southestern Europe)
I will explain what real borders were, which nations lived where, who were they, military stutus… I live in Serbia and in our schools we learn a lot of about Roman rule in Balkan peninsula.
Macedon
Short History
First thing – today Macedons who live in FYR Macedonia have nothing and nothing with those ancient Macedons (they are Slavs). Who were ancient Macedon? Old books said they were Greeks – precisely – the rulers were Greeks, but people were “so called” barbarian and language was mix of Greek and barbarian. Until Philipos (father of Alexander the Great), Macedonia was unknown state.
CA made huge mistake – Macedon coat of arms wasn’t letter alpha (in game) – it was she-goat! In money and flags were she-goats!
Military
Without his father (money, army, generals, administration), Alexander the Great would be unkown ruler of unknown Macedonia and who think that Philipos would not conquer the world – wrong think. Philipos established new type of unit (everybody know) – phalanx (Royal Pikemen in game) and he had powerfull cavalry (in game Companion). Phalanx was unbeatable until Paulus Emilianus’s (roman general) legions conquered Macedonia (148 BC)
and phalanx went in history (Macedon cavalry came too late – battle was over). Philipos conquered Greeks with bribery (just read Diodores Silcilianos) and Ilyria and Getae with army.
CA again made giant mistakes - only Macedon (later as succesors Seleucid) have phalanx – Thrace didn’t have phalanx and Greek hoplite never fight in phalanx formation (Greeks used spears in differt way, not like in the game). The greatest stupidity in game – German spearmen warband have phalanx ability (who programed that) .
Dacians
CA was very and I repeat – was very unfair to Dacia and Dacians ! The names of provinces and towns are wrong, starting position too and they are only faction in the game who haven’t their own unique unit (at least one). Very, very sad …
Short History
Dacians were powerfull “nation” (nation didn’t exist then, but…) – better union of tribes (they spoke the same language, have the same culture, religion, custom etc. but the most of time were divided – local leaders ruled). Roman called Dacians Getae, too. Dacians had state from fall of Alexander Empire until 106 AD, when emperor Traianus conquered them. They owned huge territory – today Hungary, Romania, Czech republic, Slovakia, Southern Poland, Western Ukraine, Eastern Austria, Northern Serbia, Moldova and Slavonia (in Croatia) - when were great Dacia. Usual were in today Moldova, Romania and Eastern Hungary.
When Octavian Augustus became first emperor, Rome almost conquered known world at that time - except Parthian Empire, Dacia, German tribes (eastern of Rhein) and Bedouin tribes in Northern Africa. Augustus was first Roman who attacked Dacians. It was bloody war. Dacians king Boerebistas (in Latin) have huge army – 200 000 men (heavy infantry and cavalry). And Romans always when they couldn’t beat enemy, they paid to local leaders to kill their king, what they did (divide et impera). Dacia was divided in five states (after conspiracy) when Augustus legions came. But he lost, even then. And different German and Turkish tribes (Roxolanae, Sarmation, Iaziges, Bastarnae) always attacked Dacia. Emperors Vitelius and after them Damicianus paid tribute to Dacian king Decebalus (in Latin) that he don’t attack Romans – they couldn’t nothing to him. King Dacebalus was wrong – Romans always broke one’s word.
And then came emperor Traianus (I don’t know English version of name – maybe Trayan)… He built famous bridge on Danube river (near today Kostolac in Serbia and Turnu-Severin in Romania) and came in Dacia. From 100 to 104 it was the bloodiest war Rome ever fought (like famous ancient historian Strabon wrote). Traianus was lead army himself. He brought ten legions (4., 5., 6., 7., 10., 11., 13., 15., Secunda adjutrix and Minerva prima) and ten praetorian cohortes – total 74 000 men (both infantry and cavalry). Plus, he had allies who had at least 130 000 men – total number – he had over 200 000 soldiers. Allies were: Boeraes (German tribe lived around Visla river), Iaziges (German tribe lived around today Serbian cities Novi Sad and Varadin), Sarmatians, Roxolanaes (Sarmation tribe, lived around today Dnjepar river), Numidian cavalry and Germans (lived on Dacia borders). He destroyed Dacia 106 AD.
Roman historian Iulianus wrote that Traianus said when he won: “I destroyed Dacians, who were the bravest from all mortal, not by their great and too strong bodies, but for their virtue – because Sam’s teach them to believe that soul is immortal. They were never scared in assaults and disastres, because they are certain: soul don’t die, but goes in eternal life; so, they don’t care for today life.” One prisoner discovered Traianus where king Decebalus dig his treasury and sent treasury and Decebalus head to Rome.
In 259 AD Dacia was again free from Romans. At this time, different tribes scattered and pillaged Roman territories – Alanni, Sarmations, Gothi, Iaziges, Scythi, Quadi, Cheruli, Danckeri and other german-scythian tribes and ruled on today Balkan peninsula (even in Greece). It was end of Rome…
Everything what I wrote is important – you’ll see why.
Interesting Dacian name Banat
When I played with Dacia I noticed that my spies, diplomats and assasins have name Banat. Very interesting name. Why? Banat is province divided in two part: eastern is in Romania and western is in Serbia (in so called Vojvodina region). Banat (or banovina) was province in medieval Serbia ruled by ban (local ruler choosen by people). From where that name came in the game – no idea.
Military
I don’t know much about Dacian military, but I know something. They had heavy infantry. And that’s why I wrote short history of Dacia. Rome needed over 100 years to conquer Dacia. They were powerfull and rich, but in game they are average and poor. Bad …
Why in the game they don’t have unique units? Those Naked fanatics are stupid – somebody brilliant idea (in CA or Activision)?! Are they think serious about Naked fanatics or just jokes? (And so called “barbarians” wasn’t really bad. Why in every game barbarian look same stupid and cruel? What Romans did that is more terrible what “barbarians” done. Who don’t believe I will posted evidences (Roman historians wrote that - not me)).
At least Dacia have to have swordsmen and axemen – at least.
Provinces in Balkan Peninsula
Sparta (Laconia) is ok. Owners are Greeks – ok.
Corinth is ok, but Pelopponesus is wrong. Peloponesus is peninsula (Laconia, Ahaia, Argolidae, Arcadia, Elida and Mesenia). The proper name of province is Argolidae. And owner is wrong – no Macedon. It was Greek city (the name the Greek cities is exellant - Greeks always were divided and even Persians attacked them – every city was a state (polis in Greek))
Athens (Attica) is ok. Owners are wrong (rebels). That city belonged to Greeks (they are proud on Athens)
Thermon (Aetolia) is ok. Owners are Greeks – ok.
Larissa (Thessalia) is ok and owner (Macedonia) is ok.
Thessalonica (Macedonia) is ok and owner (Macedonia), too.
Apollonia (Epirus) is ok. Owners are totaly wrong (rebels). It was in 270 BC state of famous king Pyrrhus.
Propontis (Byzantium) is ok. Owners are wrong (rebels). That’s belong to Thrace.
Thrace (Tylis) is ok and owners (Thrace), too.
Tribus Getae (Campus Getae) is good, but I need more investigations about proper names. This is not original names. Owner is wrong (Thrace). Real owners was Dacians as I wrote (for Romans Dacians = Getaes)
Dalmatia (Salona) is ok, but borders are wrong. Dalmatia was from Adritic sea coastal to today river Sava (borders between modern Croatia and Bosnia). And Panonia (Upper and Lower) was up them.
Panonia is good, but town is wrong (Aquincum). Aquincum exicted, but Sirmium was the most important city in Panonia and Ilyricum (later I will explain what was Ilyricum). Sirmium was forth capital when Empire was divided in four parts (plu Roma, Milano and Nicomedia). And few Roman emperors borned here.
Noricum is ok, but for town (Iuvavum) is better Virunum.
Tribus Iaziges (Campus Iaziges) is wrong. I wrote where Iaziges moved around. Need to investigate proper names of province and town (Romans never conuered that province).
Painoia is wrong (Bylazora existed, but not important town) – that was Ilyrian tribe not province. There were Mesia (Upper and Lower) and town Naisus (today Nis in Serbia, where Constantinus the Great was borned).
Dacia is ok, but town is not (Porrolissum). Need more investigation for proper town.
Ilyria (Segestica) is wrong. I wrote where was Segestica (in Sicily) and there were not Ilyria province. Explanation: Romans called modern Balkan peninsula Ilyricum and Ilyricum was divided in the provinces: Dalmatia, Upper Panonia, Lower Panonia, Upper Mesia, Lower Mesia, Macedonia, Thrace and Dacia (when was conquered). Those eight provinces Romans called Ilyricum. But, net of the roads is almost perfect made in Balkan peninsula by CA. Well done!
P.S. Romans stationed ¼ of legiones in Ilyricum. Ilyrian legiones were the toughest legiones in whole Empire, especially when every free men, women and children became Roman citizens in 212 AD. Yes, they (ilyrian legionares) were stronger than Praetorian legionares. Ilyrians were brave and tough men. And Ilyria (with Sicily and Judea) was the most rebelious part of Empire.
For me, I wrote enough. I’ll be back with more materials and facts. Any and any suggestions are welcome. I will discuss about everything. If someone knows makers of Realism mode, PLEASE give them that. I will post that on totalwar.com, too. Maybe someone from Creative Assembly will read my post…
Romans
Senate and People of Rome
I have to admit that CA had make little mistakes (in compare to everything else) with Senate . Senate was in Republic no only counsel, but they conduct foreighn policy and solve problems in religion, finance and interior. This is ok when Senate says you to take that city, to start war with other nation, make alliance and their opinion about the others (in game - Senate policy). And administration is good – the state services were in hands of Magistratus and men work in Magistratus without to be payed (they worked for honour). Magistratus had two part: regular (consul, censor, preator, tribunus plebis, aediles and questor) and uncommon (dictator and magister equitum). Generally is ok (but there is no tribus plebis).
And starting province Latium is ok (Rome is Roma). No further objection.
Roman units
Historicly, Rome have five periods in their history: kingdom, republic (then was most powerfull), dictatorship (first and second Triumvirate), principate (emperor was first in Senate) and dominate (total rule in hands of one man – emperor). And in different time, they have differt types of units.
Military in Republic
Romans had four types of infantry and one of cavalry. Only Romans could serve in legions. Cities in Italy had allied status (they gave axilia troops) and areas out of Italy were provinces. Legion (3 600 men standard, but can go up to 6 000) had ten (decem) cohortes (10*360 men). Cohort had three manipuli (3*120 men – that was basic tactical unit) and manipul had two centuriae (2*60 men – become basic tactical unit after Marius reforms – manipuli were shuted down). Legion had help from 3 000 auxilia and 300 equites. Names of legions were Prima, Secunda, Tertia, Quartus etc. Until Marius, they had no stand alone legions – when Rome go in war they mobilised men and after war is finished, they disband them.
CA did great mistake – those are not Legionary, Urban and Praetorian Cohorts – those are centuriae (no mean that is in empire).
Types of infantry (everybody know that) were: Veles, Hastatus, Princeps and Triarius (original Latin names).
Veles – they look like as they were, but everything else is wrong . They had only three short ranged javelines, not a lot of them how CA made. And they had sling (I know, no one believe, but that is true) . The poorest young Romans were veles.
Hastatus – they look as they were, but there are some huge mistakes – why hastatus have no centurion and signifer? They had two javelines (pila Latin), but the first one was light and secound one was heavy. CA made both heavy . The younges Romans were hastatus.
Princeps – they look as they were, but they don’t have centurion (at least they have signifer). Same story about pila . Adult men were princeps and with hastatus were backbone of Republican legions.
Triarius – they look as they were. There are centurion and signifer. CA did job well .
Equites – they look as they were. They were light cavalry for scouting enemy when army marched, pursuing enemy and for hiting flanks. Equites had ten turma (30 men in each), but there is no prefect who commanded over turma (had same job like centurion) . Why?
Auxilia – they were slingers, archers and different types of cavarly. To accent – I don’t talk about auxilia in Rome TW how they look like. Those auxilia (in RTW) were in Empire (and after reform), not in Republic. One cohort of auxilia had between 500 to 1 000 men.
Huge mistakes of CA – Romans had no archers (romans archers didn’t exist) – archers auxilia are ok . And why Romans have no slingers auxilia? Auxilia cavalry how they looks like in game didn’t exist. They were like every other ordinary cavalry. Same for light auxilia. And who gave wardogs to Romans? Pigs?! I think somebody or somebodies in CA want to joke with total war fans (wardogs and pigs). I think CA created those units because Romans “allegedly” will be not strong enough. But Rome conquered until 104 BC (Marius reforms of army) Spain, Cartage, Greece, Macedon, south of Gaulia, Dalmatia and eastern Asia Minor.
Marius reforms
In the late of II century, Romans had great trouble with corruption and bribery. Famous Numidian king Jugurtha bribed optimati (aristocracy in Rome) and they had not attacked them (until Marius himself came and destroy Numidia). There is some evidence that he said when he were in Rome on negotiation: “Corrupted city which will be soon doom, only to find buyer.” (maybe is translation not so well ). Gai Marius 104 BC reformed military – every Roman had to serve in military 16 years. And it were stationary armies.
Those Early Legionares (not Cohort, as I wrote) are Marius reformed military. They look as they were , except pila (as I wrote) and no centurion.
Legionares (not Cohort) look like they looked in Empire, except (again) pila and lack of centurion.
Praetorian Cohort – real name is not correct (Praetorian Legionares was). There were ten cohorts and was established by first emperor Octavian Augustus. They served in Rome and were emperor’s bodyguards. They have centurion, but why is gone signifer? And they don’t look as they were . They have two version of uniforms: military (looked exactly as ordinary legionares, but on helmet had “mohawk” (know what I mean)) and solemn (like in Gladiator movie with Russel Crowe, with long red tunica on back (like ordinary centurion), lighter armour and as “mohawk” were longer as military version).
Urban Cohort – they didn’t exist. Every ordinary legion stationed in city was urban. In empire (especially in late empire) Romans built border forts to protect borders (without succes) and from that forts became towns by time. So, there were no urban legionares. And auxilia were on borders, too.
Roman Cavalry – they look exactly as they were, but no prefect (again).
Legionary and Praetorian Cavalry didn’t exist – who came on such idea? Romans used auxilia cavalry (not like in the game how I wrote) and mercenary cavalry (Gaul’s, Numidian’s, Sarmation when they weren’t in war, from many Germans tribes etc.). Very simple – Romans were master of infantry not cavalry! And master of siege equipments!
Siege equipments – they look as they were, but CA gave wrong names. The real names were next:
onagers and heavy onagers = catapulta (there are no onagers in the game – they looked different) – they thrown projectiles in horizontal way and onager (onagrus in Latin) thrown rocks.
I think the other ones have wrong names but when I check, I’ll be posted.
Gladiators – they never went in war. Logical, they fought against Romans, because they were Roman slaves (famous rebellions in Sicily 138 – 132 BC, 104 – 101 BC, Pergamus 132 – 129 BC and Capua 74 – 71 BC (Spartacus)).
Arcanii – I have no comment.
Suggestions to CA
Marius reform have to come exactly in 104 BC and Romans have to produce from start in barracks hastatus, princeps and triarius. Every unit that is historicly wrong to throw out (as I wrote which). Lack of cavalry – simple (this is not my original idea, but who think out, have wright) – just make heavy mercanary cavalry (barbarian noble and long shield from start and gothic later in game) and make that they faster respawn. Problem is solved! Like was in real life.
Apeninian Peninsula and Roman Families
Three famous families – good. I cann’t think out better. Anyone know what Brutus mean on Latin? It means fool. And this is not surname – it is nickname. And Scipiones is nickname (I don’t know meaning), too. Romans had three names: name (Marcus), surname (Manlius) and nickname (Capitolinus). Why is not like that in the game? Don’t ask me.
The real problem in Italy are provinces (plus Sicily). There have to be more provinces in Italy. Latium (Senate) as I wrote is ok.
North Italy
Umbria (Arretium) is ok. Owned by Julii - ok.
Etruria is ok, but town Ariminium not. Historicly there was Florentia (or better Pisae, Tarqunium). Owners are Julii – ok.
Venetia (Patavium) is ok. And Owners are ok (Gauls were under Alps).
Liguria too, but for town historicly (Segesta) is better Genua.
Cisalpine Gaul (Mediolanum) are correct and owners (Gauls).
Sicily – real mess.
Syrakuse is ok and belongs to Greeks – historicly true (Archimedes killed when Romans came in the city – Don’t touch my circles – he said, if I have right)
Lilybaeum – I never heard and I don’t find in any historic maps such city. I know there were Segesta (there belong Segesta or Segestica – no Segestica in Ilyria – somebody make huge mistake). And belonged to Carthage – so, that’s ok.
Messana (original Messena – when Greeks colonised Sicily they gave the same name to town from their came (there was Messena in Pelopponesus)) – this city belonged to Carthage in 270 BC. No Romans in 270 BC in Sicily. After First Poenic war (264 – 241 BC) Romans took Sicily for themselves. And Sardinia and Corsica too.
Sardinia
Sardinia (Caralis) is ok, but why Corsica is not province. There (on Corsica) were town Atalia. Owned by Carthage is correct by both.
South Italy
Campania (Capua) – historicly true (but better is Neapolis). Belongs to Scipii – ok.
Brutinium (Croton) - historicly true. Owned by Brutii – ok.
Apulia is correct, but Tarentum is not. Cannae is in Apulia and Tarentum is in Calabria.
My opinion – we need Calabria (Tarentum, maybe is better Brindisium) owned by Brutii and Apulia with Cannae owned by Scipii.
Balkan Peninsula (Southestern Europe)
I will explain what real borders were, which nations lived where, who were they, military stutus… I live in Serbia and in our schools we learn a lot of about Roman rule in Balkan peninsula.
Macedon
Short History
First thing – today Macedons who live in FYR Macedonia have nothing and nothing with those ancient Macedons (they are Slavs). Who were ancient Macedon? Old books said they were Greeks – precisely – the rulers were Greeks, but people were “so called” barbarian and language was mix of Greek and barbarian. Until Philipos (father of Alexander the Great), Macedonia was unknown state.
CA made huge mistake – Macedon coat of arms wasn’t letter alpha (in game) – it was she-goat! In money and flags were she-goats!
Military
Without his father (money, army, generals, administration), Alexander the Great would be unkown ruler of unknown Macedonia and who think that Philipos would not conquer the world – wrong think. Philipos established new type of unit (everybody know) – phalanx (Royal Pikemen in game) and he had powerfull cavalry (in game Companion). Phalanx was unbeatable until Paulus Emilianus’s (roman general) legions conquered Macedonia (148 BC)
and phalanx went in history (Macedon cavalry came too late – battle was over). Philipos conquered Greeks with bribery (just read Diodores Silcilianos) and Ilyria and Getae with army.
CA again made giant mistakes - only Macedon (later as succesors Seleucid) have phalanx – Thrace didn’t have phalanx and Greek hoplite never fight in phalanx formation (Greeks used spears in differt way, not like in the game). The greatest stupidity in game – German spearmen warband have phalanx ability (who programed that) .
Dacians
CA was very and I repeat – was very unfair to Dacia and Dacians ! The names of provinces and towns are wrong, starting position too and they are only faction in the game who haven’t their own unique unit (at least one). Very, very sad …
Short History
Dacians were powerfull “nation” (nation didn’t exist then, but…) – better union of tribes (they spoke the same language, have the same culture, religion, custom etc. but the most of time were divided – local leaders ruled). Roman called Dacians Getae, too. Dacians had state from fall of Alexander Empire until 106 AD, when emperor Traianus conquered them. They owned huge territory – today Hungary, Romania, Czech republic, Slovakia, Southern Poland, Western Ukraine, Eastern Austria, Northern Serbia, Moldova and Slavonia (in Croatia) - when were great Dacia. Usual were in today Moldova, Romania and Eastern Hungary.
When Octavian Augustus became first emperor, Rome almost conquered known world at that time - except Parthian Empire, Dacia, German tribes (eastern of Rhein) and Bedouin tribes in Northern Africa. Augustus was first Roman who attacked Dacians. It was bloody war. Dacians king Boerebistas (in Latin) have huge army – 200 000 men (heavy infantry and cavalry). And Romans always when they couldn’t beat enemy, they paid to local leaders to kill their king, what they did (divide et impera). Dacia was divided in five states (after conspiracy) when Augustus legions came. But he lost, even then. And different German and Turkish tribes (Roxolanae, Sarmation, Iaziges, Bastarnae) always attacked Dacia. Emperors Vitelius and after them Damicianus paid tribute to Dacian king Decebalus (in Latin) that he don’t attack Romans – they couldn’t nothing to him. King Dacebalus was wrong – Romans always broke one’s word.
And then came emperor Traianus (I don’t know English version of name – maybe Trayan)… He built famous bridge on Danube river (near today Kostolac in Serbia and Turnu-Severin in Romania) and came in Dacia. From 100 to 104 it was the bloodiest war Rome ever fought (like famous ancient historian Strabon wrote). Traianus was lead army himself. He brought ten legions (4., 5., 6., 7., 10., 11., 13., 15., Secunda adjutrix and Minerva prima) and ten praetorian cohortes – total 74 000 men (both infantry and cavalry). Plus, he had allies who had at least 130 000 men – total number – he had over 200 000 soldiers. Allies were: Boeraes (German tribe lived around Visla river), Iaziges (German tribe lived around today Serbian cities Novi Sad and Varadin), Sarmatians, Roxolanaes (Sarmation tribe, lived around today Dnjepar river), Numidian cavalry and Germans (lived on Dacia borders). He destroyed Dacia 106 AD.
Roman historian Iulianus wrote that Traianus said when he won: “I destroyed Dacians, who were the bravest from all mortal, not by their great and too strong bodies, but for their virtue – because Sam’s teach them to believe that soul is immortal. They were never scared in assaults and disastres, because they are certain: soul don’t die, but goes in eternal life; so, they don’t care for today life.” One prisoner discovered Traianus where king Decebalus dig his treasury and sent treasury and Decebalus head to Rome.
In 259 AD Dacia was again free from Romans. At this time, different tribes scattered and pillaged Roman territories – Alanni, Sarmations, Gothi, Iaziges, Scythi, Quadi, Cheruli, Danckeri and other german-scythian tribes and ruled on today Balkan peninsula (even in Greece). It was end of Rome…
Everything what I wrote is important – you’ll see why.
Interesting Dacian name Banat
When I played with Dacia I noticed that my spies, diplomats and assasins have name Banat. Very interesting name. Why? Banat is province divided in two part: eastern is in Romania and western is in Serbia (in so called Vojvodina region). Banat (or banovina) was province in medieval Serbia ruled by ban (local ruler choosen by people). From where that name came in the game – no idea.
Military
I don’t know much about Dacian military, but I know something. They had heavy infantry. And that’s why I wrote short history of Dacia. Rome needed over 100 years to conquer Dacia. They were powerfull and rich, but in game they are average and poor. Bad …
Why in the game they don’t have unique units? Those Naked fanatics are stupid – somebody brilliant idea (in CA or Activision)?! Are they think serious about Naked fanatics or just jokes? (And so called “barbarians” wasn’t really bad. Why in every game barbarian look same stupid and cruel? What Romans did that is more terrible what “barbarians” done. Who don’t believe I will posted evidences (Roman historians wrote that - not me)).
At least Dacia have to have swordsmen and axemen – at least.
Provinces in Balkan Peninsula
Sparta (Laconia) is ok. Owners are Greeks – ok.
Corinth is ok, but Pelopponesus is wrong. Peloponesus is peninsula (Laconia, Ahaia, Argolidae, Arcadia, Elida and Mesenia). The proper name of province is Argolidae. And owner is wrong – no Macedon. It was Greek city (the name the Greek cities is exellant - Greeks always were divided and even Persians attacked them – every city was a state (polis in Greek))
Athens (Attica) is ok. Owners are wrong (rebels). That city belonged to Greeks (they are proud on Athens)
Thermon (Aetolia) is ok. Owners are Greeks – ok.
Larissa (Thessalia) is ok and owner (Macedonia) is ok.
Thessalonica (Macedonia) is ok and owner (Macedonia), too.
Apollonia (Epirus) is ok. Owners are totaly wrong (rebels). It was in 270 BC state of famous king Pyrrhus.
Propontis (Byzantium) is ok. Owners are wrong (rebels). That’s belong to Thrace.
Thrace (Tylis) is ok and owners (Thrace), too.
Tribus Getae (Campus Getae) is good, but I need more investigations about proper names. This is not original names. Owner is wrong (Thrace). Real owners was Dacians as I wrote (for Romans Dacians = Getaes)
Dalmatia (Salona) is ok, but borders are wrong. Dalmatia was from Adritic sea coastal to today river Sava (borders between modern Croatia and Bosnia). And Panonia (Upper and Lower) was up them.
Panonia is good, but town is wrong (Aquincum). Aquincum exicted, but Sirmium was the most important city in Panonia and Ilyricum (later I will explain what was Ilyricum). Sirmium was forth capital when Empire was divided in four parts (plu Roma, Milano and Nicomedia). And few Roman emperors borned here.
Noricum is ok, but for town (Iuvavum) is better Virunum.
Tribus Iaziges (Campus Iaziges) is wrong. I wrote where Iaziges moved around. Need to investigate proper names of province and town (Romans never conuered that province).
Painoia is wrong (Bylazora existed, but not important town) – that was Ilyrian tribe not province. There were Mesia (Upper and Lower) and town Naisus (today Nis in Serbia, where Constantinus the Great was borned).
Dacia is ok, but town is not (Porrolissum). Need more investigation for proper town.
Ilyria (Segestica) is wrong. I wrote where was Segestica (in Sicily) and there were not Ilyria province. Explanation: Romans called modern Balkan peninsula Ilyricum and Ilyricum was divided in the provinces: Dalmatia, Upper Panonia, Lower Panonia, Upper Mesia, Lower Mesia, Macedonia, Thrace and Dacia (when was conquered). Those eight provinces Romans called Ilyricum. But, net of the roads is almost perfect made in Balkan peninsula by CA. Well done!
P.S. Romans stationed ¼ of legiones in Ilyricum. Ilyrian legiones were the toughest legiones in whole Empire, especially when every free men, women and children became Roman citizens in 212 AD. Yes, they (ilyrian legionares) were stronger than Praetorian legionares. Ilyrians were brave and tough men. And Ilyria (with Sicily and Judea) was the most rebelious part of Empire.
For me, I wrote enough. I’ll be back with more materials and facts. Any and any suggestions are welcome. I will discuss about everything. If someone knows makers of Realism mode, PLEASE give them that. I will post that on totalwar.com, too. Maybe someone from Creative Assembly will read my post…