Greatest Castle pre age of gunpowder

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What do you think is the greates castle of the pre gunpowder age, The hardest to take, the most beautiful or the largest.

Heres a good one to start off with the Krak des Chevaliers . Argueably the greatest castle ever built. Ironic its in Syria and not Europe.




http://www.raphaelk.co.uk/web%20pics/Syria/first/Krak%20des%20Chevaliers.jpg

You can appreciate its defensive position better here.

http://www.damascus-online.com/Photos/Homs/crac.jpg

[Sethik]

I figured Constantinople would be the best. Didn't it turn away dozens of invading armies until it fell to the Turks who had cannon?


Also I remember reading that there was a castle in Japan that was monsterously strong. I think it was built in Tokyo.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Caernarfon in North Wales, as beautiful as it is formidable

[Byzantine Prince]

Heres a good one to start off with the Krak des Chevaliers . Argueably the greatest castle ever built. Ironic its in Syria and not Europe.

Why is it ironic? The Krak was built during the crusades, which hapened to be in the Middle East. There are more large castles there then any place in Europe(with the possible exception of Wales).

I dont' think Constantinople really counts as a castle(it's just tall walls). It was the hardest city to take though. Probably could have been the best and most ppowerful city in the world. Now it's just overpopulated and lazy.

Everything changed with the invention of the canon though. Unfortunatly Byzantium didn't have enough money to buy the invention from that Hungarian guy who invented it. The Turks did though and they were the first to ever use canons. Ironically that same invention was used to destroy Hungary a little later. Lol, I guess they got what they deserved.

[Sethik]

Didn't the invetor of that monsterous 80-or-whatever ton cannon die because it misfired? It sometihng like 2 hours to properly load it and fire.

I see what you mean then Prince.

[spmetla]

Problem with Krak was that it was never fully manned due to that small number of Hospitallers in the region were spread out over a large area along with the problem of acquiring water for the castle. I believe that they couldn't build a large well inside because of the rock it was built on there by making it's strongest aspect aslo it's weakest.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The Hungarian was called Urban and i think it was 12 super bombards that he brought to the siege of constantinople plus the sultan's already substantial siege train

[Adrian II]

What do you think is the greates castle of the pre gunpowder age, The hardest to take, the most beautiful or the largest.I don't know how it compares, but I believe the most impressive citadel I ever visited was Carcassonne. Look at the walls on that baby, the superb cathedral, consider the history of the place, the Cathar episode. It even smells good inside those walls - wafts of garlic and basil, lemon, fresh bread, lime chalk, roast meat at lunch-time. The bottom picture is true to reality; in summer most days are hazy because of the heat, and you get these fairy-tale views of the town, the surrounding hills and rivers, the fields. Oh man, I'm gonna book a trip there again..


http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bbcp/images/vuecite.jpg

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bbcp/images/eglise.jpg

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bbcp/images/img0011.jpg

[AntiochusIII]

I vote for the Krak. It's the coolest castle ever built... in Syria. Look at those towers! and they have a cool gate too (very small and defensible for such a large citadel.)

The monstrous castle Sethik was stating I believe is the legendary Osaka. Hideyoshi built it and it was besieged for years (?) before Ieyasu finally break in and truly end the Sengoku once and for all, after the first end at Segi Ka Hara (sp?)

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Caernarfon in North Wales, as beautiful as it is formidable


Yep. North Wales is the place for castles. Conway is good too.

[Adrian II]

Yep. North Wales is the place for castles. Conway is good too.Caernarfon and the Krak are certainly spectacular, forbidding and rich in history, but both are as dead as their former inhabitants. They're just relics; Carcassonne is alive.


Caernarfon Castle, Gwynedd, North Wales; 'Henry, picture!'

http://www.castlewales.com/carnarf3.jpg

[The Wizard]

I dont' think Constantinople really counts as a castle(it's just tall walls). It was the hardest city to take though. Probably could have been the best and most ppowerful city in the world. Now it's just overpopulated and lazy.

Everything changed with the invention of the canon though. Unfortunatly Byzantium didn't have enough money to buy the invention from that Hungarian guy who invented it. The Turks did though and they were the first to ever use canons. Ironically that same invention was used to destroy Hungary a little later. Lol, I guess they got what they deserved.
Istanbul is a very nice city, imo... was there in january... nice people, good food, beautiful buildings... it's right there up with Rotterdam and Rome for me ~D

Also, the massive defensive works of Constantinople are huge and very, very hard to take. With an army outnumbering the Byzantines 6 or 7 to one, gigantic cannons (the Mamelukes used cannonry earlier than the Ottomans, actually), having finally negated the great advantage that Constantinople had because of its perfect stragetical position (Mehmed il-Pasha had built the "European castle", as it is called translated from Turkish, to block the Bosphorus for enemy shipping in its least wide part, and even then he had to rely on his grandfather's "Asian castle"), and trying to conquer a city which only retained some 10,000 of its former 400,000 inhabitants, it still took Mehmed 7 (?) months to conquer the city. If anything, the walls of Constantinople were a testament to Theodosius' forsight.

As for castle-building, how about the great citadels built to protect the Silk Road by the Sassanids? Or the former citadel of Bam? 3000 years old it was, but it looked more formidable than almost every European citadel.



~Wiz

[Adrian II]

Or the former citadel of Bam? 3000 years old it was, but it looked more formidable than almost every European citadel.Good pointer, The Wizard! It's hard to find pics that show a complete overview of Bam, but this one is good enough for me:

http://www.monkeyview.net/id/601/default/bam_citadel_2.jpg

And a peek inside the governor's mosque, very nice!

http://www.monkeyview.net/id/601/default/mosque_dome.jpg

[Kalle]

This fortress in Malbork was started to build in 1274 and is considered the largest fortress in europe from the gothic era. From 1309 home for the grandmaster of the Teutonic order.

1997 it entered unescos world cultural heritage list.

http://home1.pp.sbbs.se/lennart.eriksson/marienburg.jpg

[Adrian II]

This fortress in Malbork was started to build in 1274 and is considered the largest fortress in europe from the gothic era. From 1309 home for the grandmaster of the Teutonic order.Kalle, is it just me or is your link dead? Nope, now it's alive. Whoah, Malbork is a real beaut!

[zelda12]

I like the Tower of London, its nice and defensive, (Even if its only been really tested once, by peseants and they managed to break in) and its also shows a nice progression in architecture, from Roman to Tudor. But just the pre Gunpowder parts are nice.

Bodian Castle is also very nice,
http://www.healingartsnetwork.com/images/Bodian_Castle.jpg

http://www.castles.org/castles/Europe/Western_Europe/United_Kingdom/England/Bodiam-Sussex/856007.JPG

[Adrian II]

Still, Hoernersburg Lego castle takes the biscuit!

http://www.hoernersburg.net/images/TourOther/250OutsideCastle.jpg

[Ironside]

Still, Hoernersburg Lego castle takes the biscuit!


That was built before the lego cannons I presume? ~;)

[Adrian II]

That was built before the lego cannons I presume? ~;)Around the time of the first Smartie gun actually. :kid: :tiny: :baby:

[King Clas]

I would vore for the wall around the city of Visby.
Maybe Ill post some pics later

[English assassin]

Most of my favourites have been suggested. Bodiam is the most "castle-looking" castle you will ever see. Malbork is spectacular (and IIRC has an amazing "amber room" inside). Krak de chevalier is fantastic to visit, must be the most formidable fortress I have seen.

Beaumaris in Anglesea is an excellent example of a crusader castle design in North Wales, and Harlech has the best song going (even to Saxon ears...)


Men of Harlech, march to glory, Victory is hov'ring o'er ye,
Bright eyed freedom stands before ye, Hear ye not her call?
At your sloth she seems to wonder, Rend the sluggish bonds asunder,
Let the war cry's deaf'ning thunder, Ev'ry foe appal.

Echoes loudly waking, Hill and valley shaking;
'Till the sound spreads wide around, The Saxon's courage breaking;
Your foes on ev'ry side assailing, Forward press with heart unfailing,
Till invaders learn with quailing, Cambria ne'er can yield.

Thou who noble Cambria wrongest, Know that freedom's cause is strongest
Freedom's courage lasts the longest, Ending but with death!
Freedom countless hosts can scatter, Freedom stoutest mail can shatter,
Freedom thickest walls can batter, Fate is in her breath.

See they now are flying! Dead are heaped with dying!
Over might has triumphed right, Our land to foes denying;
Upon their soil we never sought them, Love of conquest hither brought them,
But this lesson we have taught them, Cambria ne'er can yield.

[Ja'chyra]

One that I think deserves a mention, though not the best or greatest, is Dumbarton Rock which has the castle on top.

It's quite small, but the man who built it was obviously inspired.

This link shows the rock itself, the castle occupies the top.

Rock (http://www.ccsna.org/castles/dumbarton.html)

This site gives some of its history

Clicky (http://www.rampantscotland.com/castles/blcastles_dumbarton.htm)

[Accounting Troll]

Harlech gets my vote. As well as the beautiful location, it was very difficult to take except by prolonged seige even when seige cannons replaced catapults because it was built on a rocky outcrop. And seige was no easy matter because it is by the coast.

www.castlewales.com (http://www.castlewales.com) is a good website for anyone interested in castles in Wales and the Marches, which I think has the highest density of castles in the world.

[Oleander Ardens]

Second to Tyrol, my friend ~:)

BTW a "tyical" Tyrolean eaglenest - it explains why our castles were usually hungered out.

http://www.dickemauern.de/hader/ansik.jpg

OA

[Productivity]

Second to Tyrol, my friend ~:)

BTW a "tyical" Tyrolean eaglenest - it explains why our castles were usually hungered out.



OA

I imagine the builders of that would have had a great time ~;).

[King Edward]

Carcassonne Is a nice place but it has become a bit of a tourist trap.

[Duke Malcolm]

Edinburgh Castle is good, but I don't know when that was built. Dunottar Castle is good, it isn't too big, and is mostly in ruins, but there is really only one way onto the small peninsula.
There is a castle in Japan, that was on the around the world in 80 tresures thing, which was quite spectacular

[Templar Knight]

The first record of the castle being used as a royal residence occurs in the 11th century when Margaret, wife of Malcolm III died there after hearing of her husband's death at Alnwick in 1093. "Saint Margaret" (she was later canonised) was Saxon-English, a refugee from the conquest of England by the Normans under William the Conqueror. She brought piety and manners to the Scottish court and was reknowned for her generosity to the poor. The chapel which bears her name was probably not built until the 12th century.
http://www.rampantscotland.com/visit/blvisitedincastle.htm

Another fine castle is Stirling, located on an excellent defensive position


A site as important as the castle rock at Stirling, guarding as it does the lowest crossing point of the River Forth, would have been of strategic interest to anyone wanting to control central Scotland.
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/stirling/stirlingcastle/

[Magraev]

How about Massada? The ramp the romans built to take that place is truly awe-inspiring. A cool story (the mass-suicide when they saw the romans were coming) is a part of what makes a castle great too.

[Templar Knight]

Stirling Castle
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/stirling/stirlingcastle/images/am-450.jpg

[Orda Khan]

Just as a matter of interest, Caernarfon was based on Constantinople, hence the bands in the stonework.
In Wales we have more castles than any other country and therefore have many to choose from. Personally I would pick one of the smaller castles such as White Castle near Llandeilo Crossenny with the wonderful stonework of its moat or remote Carreg Cennen, perched on the edge of a 100 metre sheer cliff

.........Orda

[Afonso I of Portugal]

Well guys, i like all castles you've mention, but one of my favourites (as a large one) is the castle of Tomar in central Portugal.

The castle was built in 1160 by the Portuguese knights templar to protect the main access road to Lisbon and Santarém from the Almohads. In fact it was the headquarters of the templars in Portugal. When they were extinct, the castle was given to the Knights of Christ who enlarged it several times.

The castle suffered a dramatic siege by the Almohads in 1190, but the knights templar resisted.

http://www.monumentos.pt/scripts/zope.pcgi/ipa/pages/frameset?nome=ipa&upframe=upframe3&downframe=ipa.html

:duel: :charge:

[The Wizard]

As an example of a well-built castle amongst modestly rich higher nobility, there is the Muiderslot in Holland, built by count Floris V in 1280.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~robz/pictures/Amsterdam04/Amsterdam-Images/18.jpg



~Wiz

[Lazul]

I must say tho taht Norre Port in Halmstad is the mightiest Gate ever built!

http://www.utb.halmstad.se/fk/halmstad/Start/Norre%20Port.jpg

ok, sorry, its actually very tiny.... and and got shot opened by cannon by the danes hehe

[TheSilverKnight]

the Krak des Chevaliers in Syria takes the cake, I'm afraid...it is quite ironic that it isn't in Europe, but in the Middle East...quite an amazing castle, I will say ~:)