Troika closes its doors. [Archive]

Sethik

02-25-2005, 03:10

This is a sad, sad day indeed. (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/590630p1.html)

As many of you may have already heard, Troika has laid off all of its employees and is closing its doors due to our inability to secure funding for future projects. We have not yet made the decision as to whether Troika Games as an entity will regroup and pursue future projects or simply cease to exist. We want to thank all of our fans for their support these past seven years, it has really meant a lot to us that there were people out there who enjoyed our games enough to create fan-sites and follow our progress as a company. But we especially want to thank all of our employees - we had the pleasure of working with the some of the most dedicated, hard working, creative people in the industry, and we really appreciate all that they did for Troika.

Thanks for everything,
Tim, Leonard, and Jason

It is a crime that good studios like Troika shutdown while Interplay's bloated corpose still meances the world.

chemchok

02-25-2005, 05:01

It is a crime that good studios like Troika shutdown while Interplay's bloated corpose still meances the world.
You mean Herve Caen's, right? ~D

R.I.P. Troika, you never made a polished product, but who does these days.

Kekvit Irae

02-25-2005, 05:20

R.I.P. Troika, you never made a polished product, but who does these days.

...which is the reason Trioka died. Not that I really care, anyway. Bloodlines is relatively bug-free, which is good enough for me.
I'm still mourning the loss of Black Isle Studios, though.

Uesugi Kenshin

02-25-2005, 05:31

Refresh my memory other than Bloodlines what did they make?

If they did not make anything real good it is less of a heartstopper than when Bungie was bought by Microsoft. Myth: The Fallen Lords was a great game........

Kekvit Irae

02-25-2005, 05:35

Vampire: Bloodlines
Arcanum: Of Steelworks and Magick Obscura
The Temple of Elemental Evil, which speaks volumes of their wonderful abilities to release a finished product

chemchok

02-25-2005, 05:36

Arcanum - great story/lame combat
The Temple of Elemental Evil - lame story/great combat
Bloodlines - meh, wasn't my thing

And yeah, Black Isle's closure hurt, Troika's just seemed inevitable for some reason.

Edit : beat me to the list kek!

Phatose

02-25-2005, 11:27

I'll miss em. Arcanum was a blast, if one that really really suffered from their attempt to please the real time gamers as well as the turn based gamers. Bloodlines is on my to get asap list, and I've got ToEE here....just haven't managed to play it much because my patience with games that kill you the second you step out of town isn't very high.

The Tuffen

02-25-2005, 13:42

Its a shame Troika have gone. I was hoping for a bloodlines expansion/sequal from them

Navaros

02-26-2005, 11:31

I was hoping for a bloodlines expansion/sequal from them

that's what i wanted from Nihilistic Software, who made the first Vampire: The Masquerade PC game

but we never got that. real shame too. the first Vampire game probably had the best interface ever, out of any RPG ever made. it was smooth like butter.

i haven't played the new Vampire game yet, but it seems like the writing was more serious in the first one. that's what i like in my RPG's: serious writing. not sure if Troika was good in that department.

i never played Arcanum because i heard it had no voice-acting. that's just unacceptable for modern-day RPG games.

Efrem

02-26-2005, 12:00

Bloodlines is nothing like Redemption. And in fact Redemption was just a dungeron crawler at least that was how far I went in till I got bored and stopped playing.

If you want writing then Bloodlines is the game for you. THe gameplay isn't anything to write home about, but the characters and arching plotline that had multiple endings.... Every single peice of Dialogue voice acted, and the best voice acting I've ever heard in a game yet.

This game really sucks you in to a gritty dark las angeles underworld.

Voigtkampf

02-26-2005, 12:17

I still mourn Black Isle. Fallout is in my eyes as big a legend as are Total war games. Troika is sad too, but nowhere as nearly as tragic as Black Isle was/still is to me. I still have No Mutants Allowed (http://www.nma-fallout.com/) and Duck and Cover (http://www.duckandcover.cx/) , though, so I can dwell in nostalgia every now and then… :bigcry:

Kekvit Irae

02-26-2005, 12:25

While Redemption needed a lot of redemption of it's own, the voice acting and writing was superb. None of this "Oh, I suddenly find myself in a strange city in the future, and thus I will now speak the language that thine city's good inhabitants now speak. Sup, niggaz!" Christof speaks Elizibethian althroughout the game, Dark Ages and Modern, and it's fascinating how he adjusts to the new world. Nevermind the fact that he automatically knows how to use an M16 or flamethrower first time he picks one up...

econ21

02-26-2005, 21:50

i haven't played the new Vampire game yet, but it seems like the writing was more serious in the first one. that's what i like in my RPG's: serious writing. not sure if Troika was good in that department.

As Efrem says, the second vampire is very good in its writing and characterisation. Heck, even the vampire who trains you in the "tutorial" is far more memorable and vivid than almost any NPC in every earlier CRPG. This is partly due to the superb voice-acting, but also wonderful writing.

i never played Arcanum because i heard it had no voice-acting. that's just unacceptable for modern-day RPG games.

Arcanum has some voice-acting, but like Fallout it's not uniform. The first NPC to join your party talks a lot and his voice-acting is good. But Arcanum really shines in the amazingly atmospheric writing. It is in a courtly language of an earlier age, so for example if you want to buy a newspaper you say "Induibitably, my good sir" instead of "yes". When combined with lovely sad and elegiac background music and gaslit early industrial cities, it creates wonderful immersion.

Troika could write as well as any CRPG maker - ToEE is an aberration.

Efrem

02-27-2005, 00:22

Kekvit Irae

02-27-2005, 00:50

I'll really have to get further into Redemtpion some day, I lost my furthest in save file and really can't be bothered fighting through those massive dungeons again.

Which is another good point for Masqaurade, THE LEVELS KICK ASS. Almost all have about 3 or 4 drastically different ways to do what you want. And I love the way you "level up" easily the best I've seen it done.

If by "kick ass" you mean repetitive and extremely boring, then yes, Redemption's dungeons "kick ass".
Case in point: Giovanni Warehouse. Only two types of enemies: Giovanni vampires (who look like clones), and the ghost "pets" a few of them summon. Two types of enemies is what you get in an average dungeon. If you are lucky, sometimes a third type is thrown into the mix, but those are rare and few in-bewteen.

Bloodlines isnt much better, but at least it's not a poorly done 3D Diablo-ripoff. If you want to use stealth and gile, you can (and oftentimes must).
Case in point: Fat Larry's quest to retrieve the briefcases from the local thugs and the chinese mafia from the nearby parking garage. You can do it the easy, suicidal way and attempt to get yourself killed (run and gun, baby!), or you can do it the hard, safe way and use the air ducts to get close enough to your targets (Obfuscate, Demention or Dominate definately helps)

econ21

02-27-2005, 03:37

Bloodlines isnt much better,...

Well, I guess tastes vary but the thing about Bloodlines for me was that it did not feel as if it had "dungeons". For most of the game, I felt I was wandering its areas - Hollywood etc - and exploring shops, houses etc. Early on there was relatively little combat and a lot of talking. In this regard, I think the comparisons to Fallout are legitimate. Maybe the reason it tailed off a little at the end was that it did come to resemble something more like a conventional dungeon crawl.

Kekvit Irae

02-27-2005, 06:18

Well, I guess tastes vary but the thing about Bloodlines for me was that it did not feel as if it had "dungeons". For most of the game, I felt I was wandering its areas - Hollywood etc - and exploring shops, houses etc. Early on there was relatively little combat and a lot of talking. In this regard, I think the comparisons to Fallout are legitimate. Maybe the reason it tailed off a little at the end was that it did come to resemble something more like a conventional dungeon crawl.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of Deus Ex or Thief, where you can go throughout the game without dealing a single point of combat damage. Regretably, game publishers feel this is too "boring" and forces the player to rush headon into combat

econ21

02-27-2005, 19:54

I was hoping for something more along the lines of Deus Ex or Thief, where you can go throughout the game without dealing a single point of combat damage. Regretably, game publishers feel this is too "boring" and forces the player to rush headon into combat

Yes, you need to have top-notch combat skills. But that is true of almost all CRPGs. Wasn't it true of Fallout 2, for example?

I quickly realised I needed to build a kick-ass fighter, but was pleased that while that was necessary it was not all the game was about. I enjoyed the survival horror type elements and the conversations with the amazing NPCs much more than hacking through the monsters. One of my strongest memories of the game is of my character dancing on the floor of Jeanette's club!

I think it did the atmospheric settings/story/characters elements at least as well as Deus Ex (another brilliant game) although I take your point about the absence of a "no-kill" path through the game.

Kekvit Irae

02-28-2005, 10:00

Yes, you need to have top-notch combat skills. But that is true of almost all CRPGs. Wasn't it true of Fallout 2, for example?

Six words:
Sneak, Silent Running, Ghost, Super Stimpaks

Tag Sneak, Speech, and (insert random useful skill like Lockpick or Science here) and you can get through the game without hardly being in combat. Naturally, you are going to miss a lot of the game, but the main quest is doable without having to go into combat yourself. Granted, it's hard as hell, but viable.

EDIT: I'm too used to looking for ways to play games "Lytha style" (to coin a Thief 1/2/3 term), aka going through the main quests without being seen or heard, and potentially without doing any damage other than what I have to. Deus Ex performs this flawlessly, allowing you to go through the game without drawing your weapon or being seen.

Efrem

02-28-2005, 11:56

Kekvit Irae

03-01-2005, 00:25

I loved the Giovanni Mansion...

you did play the tapes didn't you???

The slow record of his decent into madness.. Mirrors that showed things that you'd already killed or were never there... (and no that wasn't a bug.)

Absolutly horrifyingly creepy stuff.

That was the Malkavian Mansion, not the Giovanni. Giovanni was full of guests in the first floor, and full of undead zombies in the basement

Efrem

03-01-2005, 09:04

That was the Malkavian Mansion, not the Giovanni. Giovanni was full of guests in the first floor, and full of undead zombies in the basement

OOH!!

My bad, yeah the Giovanni Mansion sucked balls.

Sethik

03-02-2005, 06:17

QwertyMIDX

03-02-2005, 09:09

Losing Bungie was way worse though. There are so few good companies left.

Phatose

03-02-2005, 12:53

Fragony

03-02-2005, 13:57

EDIT: I'm too used to looking for ways to play games "Lytha style" (to coin a Thief 1/2/3 term), aka going through the main quests without being seen or heard, and potentially without doing any damage other than what I have to. Deus Ex performs this flawlessly, allowing you to go through the game without drawing your weapon or being seen.

Ah a fellow Thief maniac! I always try to play stealthgames as nicely as possible. But how did you manage that in Deus ex? I only killed 2 people, but without being seen, you must be one hell of a taffer ;)

Navaros

03-02-2005, 14:09

If by "kick ass" you mean repetitive and extremely boring, then yes, Redemption's dungeons "kick ass".
Case in point: Giovanni Warehouse. Only two types of enemies: Giovanni vampires (who look like clones), and the ghost "pets" a few of them summon. Two types of enemies is what you get in an average dungeon. If you are lucky, sometimes a third type is thrown into the mix, but those are rare and few in-bewteen.

i'll agree that the Giovanni Warehouse sucks, as does the Orsi Warehouse

but other than that, you guys are being way too hard on Redemption. most of the dungeons in Redemption are stellar. they really instill a creepy sense of dread. ie: the Tremere temple in the Golden Lane. one of the most awesomest dungeons ever!

as for variety of enemy models: i have found the lack of variety in enemy models is a problem with pretty much all games, not just Redemption. ie: Doom 3: you are killing Imps plus only one or two other character models for over 90% of the game. so you see, even in "modern blockbuster" games, lack of enemy models is still a big industry-wide problem

Kekvit Irae

03-02-2005, 21:37

Ah a fellow Thief maniac! I always try to play stealthgames as nicely as possible. But how did you manage that in Deus ex? I only killed 2 people, but without being seen, you must be one hell of a taffer ;)

Lots of Lockpicking, Electronics, and Computer skill.
A bit of Enviromental Training skill helps as well for the rebreather and the thermoptic camo.

The point of the whole thing is to not kill anyone using your weapons. Killphrases are perfectly fine. Therefor, do not upgrade your weapon skills, except for Demolition, which is only utility to increase the safety margin of enemy LAMs, which is worthless if you already know where they are.

Dont bother with Lockpicking and Electronics if you want to use the bug for both of them (pick/bypass any non-infinity lock/gadget with one pick/techtool untrained), but this kills the fun of the game.

If you are going for a no-kill game, take Pistols and Medicine to upgrade your tranq darts, or Low-Tech to upgrade your Baton (your friend throughout the game).

In any type of game, crouching is your friend. Like Thief, crouching in shadows will allow you to be invisible (almost).

Exploit moments of enemy dialogue. Example: Statue of Liberty, top floor, just below the NSA leader. Two NSA thugs are talking to each other ("Did they find the shipment?"). They will not notice you if you run right past them to the ladder until the first person stops speaking. Exploit this weakness.

Kekvit Irae

03-02-2005, 21:46

Well, just picked up bloodlines. Runs smooth as silk on my new rig, and so far I'm enjoying it roughly 200 times more then I enjoyed redemption.

Pretty hard here and there, but that may just be a result of first time through ignorance. Perhaps a ventrue isn't the best to start out with. Fun to go around trancing mortals then eating them though.

I find Ventrue the easiest to play. Dominate in dialogue, and Trace/Possession in dungeons will allow you to bypass a good portion of the game without spending unneeded XP.

Trance an enemy and you can just casually walk up to him and perform a stealth kill. Use Possession and you can gain a bodyguard that will allow you to get a 100% feed chance on him before he dies.

Unfortunately, Ventrues kinda suck in boss battles, having only Fortitude to rely on, unless you pumped up your Presence a bit.

Ignore firearms and go for melee. high strength and a katana can clean up (plus the stealth kill is the best of the game, in my opinion). The only firearm I suggest picking up is the flamethrower. You can burninate the Sheriff and the Kuei-Jin leader in a matter of seconds with it.

Ultimately, the best skill for boss battles is Celerity, where the Toreadors really shine. For the duration of a level 5 Celerity, you will be hard pressed to fail a battle when the enemy is moving like a snail.

If you have the patience, Potence 5, Melee 5, and Strength 5 (or Blood Buff) can deal extreme amounts of damage, but you really have to specialize in this because it will suck up a lot of XP