Numidian Campaign: those pesky Egyptians!!

[Old Celt]

My Numidian campaign is moving along. Taking the city of Carthage really seemed to turn the corner for me. I'm keeping peace with Spain and Gaul in the west, but Egypt just won't leave me alone. Early in the game, I had an important general and about 5 units of javelinmen at Siwa. I used a diplomat for a scout and saw a stack of about 13 Egyptians coming for Siwa. Knowing I couldn't deal with them with what I had, I demolished all the buildings I could for cash and walked my force out of there except for 1 javelin unit. The city rebelled and created a pretty large rebel force. The Egyptian stack ignored the now rebel city, and CHASED me half way to Cyrene!

I took Cyrene, but it had so few people as to offer no military support for Egyptian conflict. I was in desperate need for cash, so I had to keep taxes high and growth was slow. I focused most of my building efforts on Carthage and Cirta, and was able to squeeze a few extra units out of them, which I put on a ship and used to take Kydonia. Then I continued to work on my economy for all cities except Carthage and Thapsus, which were all military.

It's 240 BC now, and Egypt took Siwa, and marched a 13 unit stack to nearby Cyrene. I had a general, 3 javelin skirmishers, and 1 numidian cavalry. I now had to concede Cyrene, but this time left the buildings in place and queued a skirmisher for garrison, then took my 5 units and attacked Egypt's 13 which included Desert Cav, chariots, Desert Axemen, the works! I inflicted a few casualties and cut the Desert Cav about in half before my general was killed and the rout was on. I got the remnants of the Numidian cav, and part of 1 javelin unit as survivors. Of course, Cyrene was taken a short time later.

Now I was getting quite annoyed with Egypt. I needed to defend my frontier, so I sent a full flag army with 2 longshield cav, 2 numidian camel riders, 3 archers, 4 desert infantry, 1 merc hoplite, 4 javelin men, 3 numidian cavalry, and a decent general. It took forever to get to Cyrene with nothing but dirt roads in Lepcis Magna and Cyrene. I found only 2 units garrisoning Cyrene, so laid siege and waited for the inevitable relief army. Sure it came, but too late and Cyrene fell. I left 1 javelin unit for garrison, and took everything else back out toward the relief army of 13 units. Just out of my vision, behind the 13 units, was another army, a full flag with a family member!

I attacked with my 20 units (I hired a javelin merc in the desert) against their 33 units. The odds were 7 to 3 against me. The battle was huge. My missiles and skirmish cav did great against everything but the chariot archers, 2 units of them. I hadn't brought any slingers, and boy did they make me pay in blood for that mistake! Late in the battle, I had managed to destroy 1 chariot archer unit because they came too close to the main battle line and got jumped hard by all my javelins. But the other unit sat off my left flank and just poured death on me. I don't know if the AI runs out of arrows, but it sure seems that they never run out. Although everything else they had was running away, that 1 chariot unit stayed with it. After chasing down all the routers, I sent about 80 longshields after the chariots who were retreating in good order. I managed to rout the chariots, but they savaged the cav, with about 35 of them left. Egypt was left with a half a heavy chariot unit that routed away early, and half a chariot archer unit out of their 33 starting units.

It seems like a stalemate now. They can't take Cyrene with only chariot units, and I can't retrain without marching all the way back to Thapsus. I sure wish there was a way to make Cyrene useful to me quickly. The answer is probably to return with 2 full armies from Carthage next time so fresh higher level troops will be available.

I got the population of Carthage past 12,000 and built an Army Barracks. After 6 turns of building the 4600 denarii barracks, I can finally build Numidian Legionarys. But they take 2 turns to build! Oh well, in the meantime I can build a catapult range so onagers will be available for the next Egyptian incursion.

So far I'm enjoying the Numidians more than any other faction. Playing on M/VH, the play is tough but not insanely hard. The limited/weak units at the start really force you to get the most out of them, and finances are extremely tight for a long time. These guys have are more fun than a barrel full of monkeys!!

[professorspatula]

I found the Numidian campaign is a terrific challenge. I haven't finished the campaign though - I played about 30 years or so and then spent more time modifying the game and playing experimental campaigns.

Regarding Egypt, I had to pull out of the cities near them. I managed to make a lot of money off Egypt by agreeing to be their protectorate twice, but they always attacked - on the same turn as becoming their protectorate too! I held on for as long as I could, but lost Siwa. I built up Cyrene slowly, but it was only a matter of time before they came for that, so I had to plan an evacuation. I got my only ship (with half it's crew dead) to sail from Spain to Cyrene. It took about 4 turns to reach the shores, and I emptied the town of all but 1 unit of peasants and loaded up the ship. And on that very turn, Egypt sieged the town! But I had some luck. I destroyed every building I could and raised the tax rate to very high, trying to make it revolt. And it did! My peasants were kicked out but Macedonian peasants took over! That confused the Egyptians - they refused to attack, halting their expansion plans. My ship then sailed towards Carthage and the peasants from Cyrene attempted to escape on foot. They all survived the journey, and they met up with my forces west of Carthage and took part in offensive battles against the Scipii. It was like my own version of the Dunkirk evacuation of WWII.

I then built up massive armies of Skirmisher cavalry, the only useful unit in the early Numidian roster (and about the most cost efficient considering I never have any money) and fought in several battles against superior Scipii forces, typically annihilating them with my lethal rain of javelins. I helped my allies Carthage as much as possible, but when Scipii took their cities, I took them back - and kept them. I also moved into Spain, taking the Eastern settlements there, but as I left the campaign, my allies the Britons are looking menancing. They have all of Gaul, and several large stacks of men are nearby, passing by my settlements. Julii are severally weak, Gaul has just 1 settlement next to me, and Spain is also weak. There's not one force nearby to stop them and I don't really have the spare resources to fight them, the Spanish and Scipii.

It's been one of the better campaigns I've had and I'll return to it at some stage, although with the modding I've done since, it'll be a slightly different experience I'm sure.

[Dooz]

I love reading things like these. LOVE EM!

That is all...

[Red Harvest]

Numidia was one of the few challenging factions in the game. I tried it for the longest time without taking out Carthage on VH/VH. I finally had to concede that wouldn't work and went after Carthage right away. Without taking Carthage, Egypt was just too strong, and when I managed to keep Egypt out of Siwa, the Scipii always opened another front after devouring Carthage

[The Stranger]

numidian units sucks

[Sas_Legion]

numidian units sucks
not always
after playing MTW/VI and the new one RTW I believe that there is no unit cann't be usefull . eg Twon Watch as the game says keeping police and loyalty but I say cheep unit for pushing rams rather the hastati and pricipes .. do u want your expensive units die that way . it is example and so on u know that Numidian cavalary are unstopable aginst roman foot units . yah egy units are powerfull but use your mind and tactics and be the winner :charge: :duel:

[DukeofSerbia]

I sent my Didmidi's garrison to took Carthage on start (easily) and I abandoned Siwa and Siwa's garrison took Thebes and later Memphis and Alexandria because Egypt on start have no troops in those three cities. And from east (I can't remember city name) go on Corduba and later on Spaniyards. That I do in my first turn. I allied with Scipii nad Seleucid in start.

[katank]

In the numidian game, don't give up Siwa as lost. It's a valuable base. Leave just 1 jav on the first turn and queue a peasant. march entire army to Thebes. I got there before they had a wall and assaulted right away.

Hide your numidian cav behind buildings and the bowmen will pump arrows into the buildings. Mouse over to see when they run out of ammo.

Then, get close and try to use yoru javs, then finish the spearmen and bowmen at the town center.

You get an archer factory out of Thebes right away. Park your army on a bridge and rack up a few heroic victories. Then, take the poorly defended Memphis and then sack Alexandria to push them out of the Nile delta.

[Old Celt]

I appreciate that you can take out Egypt on turn 4, but would rather fight them at their full strength as I am now with the best units Numidia can produce. It is true that Numidia has limited selection, but they have units good enough that, with experience, can defeat anyone.

The camel riders are great. They send the elite horse cavalry running away crying like little girls. Numidian jav cavalry are probably the best skirmishing unit in the game. Numidian legionaries are competent, if not as terrific as the Roman version. You have onagers.

It takes time to build a strong military. You must adapt tactics to hit and run style, punctuated by crushing the enemy with camels and longshields when they make the fatal mistake of overpursuing you. It is the opposite of Roman warfare: in Numidia, cavalry and missiles are much more valuable than infantry. Units are valuable: you cannot afford to treat any of them as fodder for a long time into the campaign. You WILL lose generals in combat, and unlike Roman campaigns, you WILL lose battles when fighting the best units your enemies can field. For me, that's the kind of challenge I always wanted.

[weejonnie]

I've just started playing Numidia (M/M) - used the garrison at Siwa to take Thebes as I could see the Egyptian stack heading my way (left a group of peasants there). When I took Thebes Egypt offered me a protectorate - I said - give me 5K and I'll agree. Egypt didn't take Siwa and two turns later I occupied Memphis - and the Egyptian army turned round from Siwa to meet oblivian. Siwa never did fall.

On the Eastern Front, I actually took Thaspus as the large Carthaginian Army headed along the coast. Then, when it was well away took Carthage. Carthage sued for peace and I said fine (+ trade rights). Corduba is now Spanish (allies) so Carthage must be down to a couple of towns. Hope the army (which retreated out of Africa, I hope) can hold off the Scipii.

Economically I am building temples to boost farming output since in most places this far exceeds trade (at least in the early game, not sure about later.)

With Egypt kicked out of the Nile delta (Alexandria is mine) and Carthage kicked out of Africa, am now considering my options. Suspect it will involve Sidon, Damascus and Jerusalem at one end - an alliance with the Selucids if possible and may also involve a trip over to Sicily to see if I can stop the Scipii. There is always the Brutii which are usually very weak as they plough troops into Greece.

The only comment regarding troops is that Numidan cavalry do better against Phalanxes than round-shield, so may recruit Numidians for the Eastern Theatre and ROund-Shield for the centre/ West. (They also do a good job on Elephants, but I wont meet any more for quite a few turns.)

Funniest battle was relieving Alexandria on the Bridge - I had a good stack from Memphis (no archers) and the AI controlled a good stack from Alexandria (with archers). I basically used my missile troops one at a time on the bridge to attack the phalanx on the right (SOP to avoid shields) but when the AI troops arrived they simply charged accross the bridge and got slaughtered. That was a lucky one.

My main concern for the future is the NUmidian Navy - a toy boat in a bathtub has more fire power.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Economically I am building temples to boost farming output since in most places this far exceeds trade (at least in the early game, not sure about later.)

Later, sea trade will exceed all other forms of income combined.

Bold plan to take on the Big Gold Machine:hail:


My main concern for the future is the NUmidian Navy - a toy boat in a bathtub has more fire power.

:bounce:

[CountMRVHS]

I'm a bit hesitant to build farm upgrades, depending on the location. If it's already a high-growth region, forget about it. If it's a small, 2% pop growth on Medium taxes... maybe. I'm more inclined to build farm upgrades if I'm playing a faction with lots of infrastructure options. But say I'm playing a barbarian faction and just took over some Greek town... probably not.

I can't remember exactly what Numidia can build for public order stuff, but I don't think it's a ton, and so I'd tend to go for trade rather than farms - especially in the fast-growing Nile provinces.

I'm curious to see who is going to take over in the East now that you've neutered Egypt - probably Pontus?

[weejonnie]

Later, sea trade will exceed all other forms of income combined.

Bold plan to take on the Big Gold Machine:hail:



:bounce:

The problem with Numidia is that they can only build ports - no shipwrights or dockyards, so you only get one export. I agree that for the cities which will have big trade using that temple is a good idea - but at the moment income from agriculture far exceeds trade income - and I need income!

With regards to selection - basically if the total population growth is 8% or less (before squalor) (target 24K people) I develop agriculture (inc temples). If there is well-known rebellion then I'll build public order.

Popped over to Sicily - took Lillybaun, defeated the Scipii army there and the other two cities have no garrison worth mentioning. One is sieged and will fall next turn, when I'll move the army over to the last one (Syracuse). I have one large Egyptian army near Alexandria, but once that one is defeated I think Sidon is on my list. (Lillybaun still had a Carthaginian governor villa so cultural penalty is minimal)

It is 256BC (I think) so plenty of time before Marius raises his ugly head.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The problem with Numidia is that they can only build ports - no shipwrights or dockyards, so you only get one export.

Not sure if you're playing a modded version, but in vanilla RTW, Numidia gets dockyards which means 3 trade routes and the ability to build quinqueremes:shrug:

Numidian temple choices are Milqart (a +4 trade temple max), Baal (+20 Law/+20 Happiness), and Tanit (+4 farming max).

[weejonnie]

I've got Numidian cities with ports that can't upgrade to shipwrights - Mind you I have taken Croton with a Shipwright and can build trimarenes there. (I am playing vanilla)

(DO I bother with Numidian legionary soldiers - 2 turns a flash for troops worse than Principes - or just keep recruiting cavalry (both types) - of the latter this looks rather like a parthian game, at least the Numidian cavalry do better in melee than Parthian HAs)

So far the Julii have sent 4 full stacks at Tarentum - usually losing them all for about 10% casualties.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I've got Numidian cities with ports that can't upgrade to shipwrights

You must have a 12k population with the third tier governors building completed. I liked the Numidian Legionaire. Better on the defensive, IMHO. Beats the hell out of Desert Infantry, at any rate:shrug:

[weejonnie]

When does Marius kick in?

It is 236BC - All Southern Italy is mine including Rome. The Scipii are down to 1 city in Greece and, going by territories, Pontus looks to be the winner in the Middle East.

Money is still in short supply though - this is hampering expansion. Maybe I have too many units.

[ReluctantSamurai]

When does Marius kick in?

When the first Roman city hits 24k and builds an Imperial Palace. I know a lot of places say it has to happen in Italy and it can't be Rome itself, but I've seen Rome trigger it (as no other Roman city at the time had a 24k pop), and I've seen Carthage trigger it (as it was the only Roman city with 24k at the time).


Money is still in short supply though - this is hampering expansion. Maybe I have too many units.

My rule of thumb is that army upkeep should be no more than 50% of income. Exceptions can be made once the treasury hits the million denarii mark (or higher). Maximizing sea trade is priority as it is the single largest source of income. As corollary to that, you must strive to have connected trade routes. It doesn't do any good to have the capability for a port to have 3 routes, but only utilize one or two because there is a break in the chain. You can check on the city management page to see who is trading with a particular city.

Make sure you have trading rights with those you can trade with...it doubles the trade (both land and sea).

There are three major sea trade hubs on the map, one for each section of the Mediterranean. For the Eastern Med, it's Salamis, which allows coastal Middle East cities to trade with the Nile Delta; for the Central Med, it's Kydonia, which allows coastal Anatolia to trade with Greece; for the Western Med, it's Caralis, which allows Roman cities to trade with African cities.

Also check your corruption levels. Sometimes, despite being a good city manager, a family member can be dipping heavily into your coffers (for various reasons). Change him or find something else for him to do. And with a lot of family members, wages can get out of hand, at times. I collect all of my family members, from time to time, who can no longer contribute anything to the cause, put them on a single bireme, and fight the largest enemy fleet they can find, or...send them to assault a city~:wave: Cruel, but war is as much a business as it is a conflict:shrug:

[Vincent Butler]

When the first Roman city hits 24k and builds an Imperial Palace. I know a lot of places say it has to happen in Italy and it can't be Rome itself, but I've seen Rome trigger it (as no other Roman city at the time had a 24k pop), and I've seen Carthage trigger it (as it was the only Roman city with 24k at the time).



Not necessarily the first city. If I am the Brutii, it is usually the second, or rarely the third, once the Imperial Palace is complete. Unless you mean when user is not playing as Rome.

I like using the worthless family members as roving bands of vigilantes to wipe out rebel armies. Sometimes if low on worthless family members or it is too much trouble to collect them all I will have an army of heavy cav to do that, perhaps with a family member or two to help. That way, I can retrain, and don't have to worry about if I have a family member or not. Macedonian and Legionary Cav are great for this.

[weejonnie]

Pontus has attacked - the Selucids are wiped out - their army does better against me than the Romans since they are mainly spearmen when I relieved Sidon (which means they are effective against horse - and the legionary troops take a long time to build.)

Had Spy problems with them - the first real indicator of what a spy can do - had something like 80% unrest and 80% distance penalty for Jerusalem. Then the Spy moved to Sidon and increased unrest there - and then moved back to Jerusalem to repeat the unrest. Eventually my own spies killed him off.

I think that Pontus is relatively weak - it certainly looks that way in the graphs section - but is benefitting from a very compact region - basically all of Turkey - (and now Damascus, which is only a town, so wont help them that much). My own area stretches from Tingi (opposite Corduba) in the West, Patavium (North Central) and Jerusalem in the East. There is a LOT of 80% distance penalties and the Nile cities aren't really helping that much since they have large peasant garrisons. However I can't move the capital over there until I have numidified Italy.

I want to basically kick the Julii out of Italy (Menolevium/ Segesta and the original city in the West of Italy to take), take Caralis, and fight a holding campaign against Pontus. No doubt the Brutii will send forces up to Patavium, but that I can manage, and am now getting some reasonable income each turn - sufficient for some development - although I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

[ReluctantSamurai]

Unless you mean when user is not playing as Rome.

That's what I meant....


I think that Pontus is relatively weak

Watch out if they get developed:sweatdrop: Heavy Pontic Cavalry are as much a pain in the a$$ as horse archers (and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!), Cappadocian Cavalry are a variant on heavy Cataphracts, they get both variants of Chariots (scythed and archer), and Phalanx Pike along with Bronze Shield Pike. A formidable roster. A fun faction to play, btw, due to the unit roster and location.


I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

The only time I fail to reach at least 1M denarii in a campaign is when playing a barbarian faction. I play on VH/H settings, so the VH for the campaign map means a penalty on income (-10% IIRC), big bonuses in denarii for the AI, and the part I enjoy the most---rebels will actually band together if left alone and attack your cities~D (Spartacus anyone?)

Can't tolerate the bonuses given the AI (+7's) on VH battle difficulty. If I'm defeated on the battlefield, I want it to be because I used faulty tactics or had inferior quality troops...not super peasants trouncing my elite:inquisitive:

[Vincent Butler]

and watch out because these guys are very good in melee once they run out of javelins!

Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.


I have NEVER had 1M Denarii in any game. (or even 200000)

My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.

[weejonnie]

Hear, hear. Now, if you don't mod Pontus, they only get 80 men in a Phalanx Pike unit, but they have better stats than standard Phalanx Pikes. Their attack is the same, but defense is 3 better, which puts their attack 2 worse and defense 2 better than Bronze Shields. I would imagine Bronze Shields have better morale, not to mention 121 men, so certainly it is better for Pontus to use Bronze Shields, the loss in defense is made up for by better stamina, morale, and more men. Cappadocian Cav have same stats as Cataphracts, but their secondary attack is not armour-piercing, being swords instead of maces.



My Scipii campaigns never reach that, but as Greece, I have had over 12,000,000 denarii before. Certainly as Brutii you will achieve multiple millions. The temples of Hermes/Mercury help there, and Greece starts out with the Colossus of Rhodes, making it even more lucrative. Greece is also right in the Aegean, which in my opinion is the most lucrative region in the game. I have seen Athens making over 12,000 denarii. Tarentum also does well, have seen it over 7,000, so the Adriatic is also good. I play on M/M.

Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.

Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.

Brutii keep attacking Patavium. No real problems here, except it slows down growth as I keep having to deal with the army. I actually had a city defence on the map - 3 archers, 1 mercenry, 1 Numidian Legionary, One Desert soldiers and the general - who didn't do much except stay close to the troops - against two beseieging armies: The ram on the gates inflicted 87% damage before I had killed all the troops manning it (with oil as well of course) but once the velites on ladders were killed I spent 30 minutes twiddling my thumbs - the siege tower manned by principes never advanced. I have taken Caralis and can probably build up to taking the Julii capital of Segesta.

No - the problem is Pontus. They are so compact (all of Asia Minor) that they can keep sending stack after stack at my army camped in the valley outside Sidon, and reinforcing isn't easy since I need large garrisons in Sidon & Jerusalem. The latest stack is virtually all cavalry - including horse archers/ chariots, so I fear the worst. I only make 4000 - 8000 to spend a turn (corruption is terrible - any ideas how to get it down?)

What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.

[Ludens]

What annoyed me is that I weakened the three Roman factions so much (at one time or another) that I hoped they would be struggling against the Gauls/ Brits or Greek Cities/ Macedon/ Thrace - but they are bouncing back - it looks as if no one dared attack them.

That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player. It's a very frustrating feature: you attack someone that's at war with two other factions, and the next turn both declare a ceasefire. There's a couple of things you can do to make diplomacy more sane, but this particular feature is built into the A.I.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Think I may have to give up Numidia campaign.

Without any screenies, I'd have to say you expanded too fast without securing what you captured with an iron hand:shrug:


Memphis rebelled (big stack there now of rebels) - so lost Egyptian loyalty.

I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG~:confused: It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost~:smoking: I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away...even with cities like Carthage, Alexandria, Tanais, etc. that have grain-driven population grwoth, or cities with large unrest % built in (coded) like Jerusalem, Patavium, Tarsus, etc. It's not that difficult to do, and I pretty much laid out the guidelines for doing it in the ZPG thread we had here awhile back...:shrug:


No - the problem is Pontus.

You were warned:inquisitive:

~D

[Vincent Butler]

I don't understand why more players don't adopt my method of ZPG~:confused: It doesn't work 100% of the time, but almost~:smoking: I rarely have to deal with rebellions in my campaigns, and even then the greatest risk is only just after conquering a city. Give me a year or two and the whole squalor/unrest thing goes away

It is certainly a consideration with me now. I have not quite got it ironed out like you have, but I look at the city and use that to determine what I want to do. Salona grows slowly, I use a population growth temple if I can. Patavium or others with built-in unrest, I use a public order temple. I am hesitant in some places to upgrade my markets because of it. Taxes are also a great controller of growth, but then you run into increased unrest because of the taxes.

Now, I also keep larger garrisons in case the town gets attacked, and to help with public order. Now, with my Macedon campaign, I can probably field weak units in Greece, I have more Levy Pikemen and Militia Hoplites there than on my frontiers. Greek towns, as Macedon, are not likely to riot or be attacked, at this point. I do keep good units around, like Phalanx Pikemen, to create my armies. For a while Greece was an army factory. Using Thermon, Larissa, Athens, Corinth, and Sparta, I could train an army of ten units in two turns, and so was cranking out armies. Macedon can certainly make the money to do that.


That's actually normal behaviour: the A.I. is programmed to not fight factions that are at war with the player.

I would say the exception to that would be Rome against Egypt. I know in my current Macedon, Rome is fighting me and Egypt, who is also fighting me. Stupid Egyptians backstabbed me as I was coming to their aid (not like I did not expect it). Scipii took Alexandria and Memphis from them, so I was moving to take those towns to weaken Scipii. Never mind that by taking those towns, Egypt would not be made any stronger, which was also part of my plan. My enemy takes my ally's towns, then I take those from my enemy. I would have to take them anyway, so I would rather do it while allied with Egypt so that they are weakened, while I can pretend to be a good ally by weakening their enemy, all the while strengthening myself.

Seems like the computer are also hardcoded to ally against you, when they normally would be mortal enemies. Case in point, if I am Seleucia, then Parthia, Egypt, Pontus, and Armenia all attack quickly, even allying amongst themselves. If I am somebody else, say Rome, those guys all go to war quickly with each other, with Egypt almost always prevailing. I have seen Pontus take Egypt pretty much out, and even get all the way to Carthage. Only saw that once.

[Ludens]

Seems like the computer are also hardcoded to ally against you, when they normally would be mortal enemies.

It's not an absolute law, just a strong tendency. It can be overruled by other diplomatic considerations. The problem is that, particularly at high campaign difficulties, relationships between the player and other factions will automatically deteriorate if no interaction takes place. This is another stupid feature, leading to the A.I. hating you for no particular reason. As such, they are likely to consider you their mortal enemy - and hence stop fighting others.

[weejonnie]

With cities, I usually destroy anything I don't need, replace the temple (if possible that turn - if not as soon as the public order can stand it.) and build-over anything I can. I can withstand an immediate loss of (extra income) for long-term security.

One problem with Numidia is that the secret police/ execution square system is only giving 5% bonus for law, whereas in the Parthia campaign it was giving 5% + 5% for each level.

Anyway - at the moment I am recruiting peasants like no tomorrow and moving the better troops out of garrison duty. If Spain invades Tingi then I am in trouble, otherwise it is a win-win (cheaper recruiting an release of better troops.) - Having taken Caralis, I now have half a dozen Julii fleets parked in front of it (nowhere near the docs) - funny waste of resources.

Still holding back Pontus - haven't worked out best mix yet, but think a few archers/ numidian missile cavalry would be better than long-shield cavalry/ camel cavalry. (Obviously use legionaries to set up the infantry line)

[Vincent Butler]

As such, they are likely to consider you their mortal enemy - and hence stop fighting others.

That's fine. I consider them all my mortal enemies, anyway. To quote Skipper from The Penguins of Madagascar, "Friends are only enemies who haven't attacked you yet." I never work for their good unless I benefit as well. I will not, however attack anybody I am allied with; the only exception to that rule attacking the Senate if I am one of the Romans. That is kind of the point of the game, after all.


at the moment I am recruiting peasants like no tomorrow

Kills two birds with one stone. Creates garrison cheaply (I think peasants count, I may have seen somewhere that they don't have a garrison effect), and reduces population. That is where the large units like Warband or Eastern Infantry come in handy. They certainly get both. I think that is kind of the purpose of units of Town Watch, Town Militia, or Militia Hoplites. A cheap garrison unit, but does not diminish population as much as the peasants. Now, my main garrison unit in peaceful places is Levy Pikemen. I value the extra attack over the extra defense, as the spear wall will keep more enemies off of them if they do need to fight.

[ReluctantSamurai]

With cities, I usually destroy anything I don't need, replace the temple (if possible that turn - if not as soon as the public order can stand it.) and build-over anything I can. I can withstand an immediate loss of (extra income) for long-term security.

Extermination, while it solves short-term hassles, reduces your income for quite some time. Having said that, there are times where there is almost no other choice; capturing a Huge City far from your capital and subject to a large cultural penalty, is a prime candidate for extermination. Certain cities like Jerusalem, Tarsus, Patavium, Corduba (all have built-in unrest---some as high as 35%) are also on the list for extermination. If you are capturing a city with your own cultural bias, or something in the town to large town size, or fairly close to your capital, extermination is a bad idea. It's a fine line to walk, but refraining from "auto-exterminate" pays off (literally) in the end.


Creates garrison cheaply (I think peasants count, I may have seen somewhere that they don't have a garrison effect), and reduces population.

Peasants most definitely count as garrison. Check this out:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?44476-Garrison-Effects


Still holding back Pontus - haven't worked out best mix yet, but think a few archers/ numidian missile cavalry would be better than long-shield cavalry/ camel cavalry. (Obviously use legionaries to set up the infantry line)

Long Shields are at a disadvantage (to Pontic Heavy Cav) in attack value (7 vs 9), and about equal in defense (15 vs 14) but much like Horse Archers, you have to chase them all over the map and need two units to corner each one...tedious and risky if they get too far behind enemy lines. Camel Cavalry are too slow to catch them. Archers, screened by infantry is the best means (Desert Infantry is cheaper and has a bonus vs cavalry, and it's usually the infantry that takes the brunt of the javelin fire) ...Pontic cavalry standing still chucking javelins at you, are far easier to kill than chasing them. Javelin unit vs javelin unit gains you no advantage:shrug:

With a more robust economy, Ellies would be your main line-busters:creep:

[LordK9]

RE: Ludens - relationships between the player and other factions will automatically deteriorate if no interaction takes place.

They probably did that to make ambassadors more relevant.

[Ludens]

RE: Ludens - relationships between the player and other factions will automatically deteriorate if no interaction takes place.

They probably did that to make ambassadors more relevant.

If I recall correctly (and it has been a while), the per-turn penalty is determined by the campaign difficulty level, which explains why the diplomatic A.I. becomes even more unreasonable at higher difficulty levels.

Also, it could be counteracted by paying a token regular tribute - this counted as a positive interaction, and therefore stopped the deterioration. In my experience with the EB mod, this trick resulted in far more reasonable (if still not particularly smart) A.I. diplomacy.

So I suppose it's merely a poorly-balanced difficulty mechanic.

[weejonnie]

Presumably Ellie mercenaries - can't see how to recruit anywhere.

[CountMRVHS]

Right - I don't believe Numidians can recruit elephants normally. I seem to remember modding my game so the elephants were available, because they historically did have some.

ReluctantSamurai, what's your ZPG strategy?

Numidia is on my list soonish for a campaign. I've never gotten too far with them. Eventually I caught on to the early Nile strike strategy (part of the unfortunate need to interfere in the Middle East before Egypt or Pontus grows to unrealistic size), but I've never so much as won the short campaign for them.

It'll be played on Medium campaign difficulty, though - like all of my campaigns lately. (The Fourth Age mod is balanced for Medium campaign difficulty and Hard battles, so that's been my standard for years now.) Ever since I noticed that the AI wasn't *quite* so suicidally aggressive on M difficulty, and was actually open to things like ceasefires and protectorate status, I couldn't go back to H or higher. I guess the only real difference is the income the AI gets, with M being a more even playing field. That means I have an easier economy, but I tend not to blitz anyway, so it seems to even out.

[ReluctantSamurai]

ReluctantSamurai, what's your ZPG strategy?

Start with this discussion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132292-Really-need-help-in-the-game%21%21%21

More screenies here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?147682-How-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-Tanais

There is no A-->B-->C to the method. You need to understand the effects of garrison, distance-to-capital penalties, effects of squalor, and how to best use the temples available to a particular faction.

These should help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?40421-Unrest-Public-Order-Penalties

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?44476-Garrison-Effects

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?37586-Squalor

And the best available Guide to Temples that I know of:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=107

ZPG isn't attainable 100% of the time (but almost) and is much more difficult with barbarian factions. If you check my screenies (and unfortunately I lost the ones with Germania, Dacia, and Scythia), you'll see that even cities with grain-driven population growth can be brought to ZPG (that little orange population indicator that becomes your best friend:laugh4:).

[weejonnie]

Start with this discussion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132292-Really-need-help-in-the-game%21%21%21

More screenies here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?147682-How-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-Tanais

There is no A-->B-->C to the method. You need to understand the effects of garrison, distance-to-capital penalties, effects of squalor, and how to best use the temples available to a particular faction.

These should help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?40421-Unrest-Public-Order-Penalties

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?44476-Garrison-Effects

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?37586-Squalor

And the best available Guide to Temples that I know of:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=107

ZPG isn't attainable 100% of the time (but almost) and is much more difficult with barbarian factions. If you check my screenies (and unfortunately I lost the ones with Germania, Dacia, and Scythia), you'll see that even cities with grain-driven population growth can be brought to ZPG (that little orange population indicator that becomes your best friend:laugh4:).

*** Help ***

Some advice on strategy would be appreciated for the current Numidian Campaign.

Here is the general review. At about 210bc

Hold all Italy - Julii are down to one town (the first in transalpine Gaul) and TBH I'm not touching it as it is buffering an infinite number of British troops. And all Africa (Other than Memphis and the Libyan coastal town).

Am advancing down West coast towards Greece -have taken Segesta (inland town, no use other than money) - can take the next one in a couple of turns and have landed a secondary army south of Apollonia. The Brutii are, I suspect heading up through Thrace/ Macedon, although no doubt they will turn around if/ when I take the Greek Cities.

I hold Crete (no governor), Jerusalem and Sidon (and a small town further East). The Scipii have landed and taken a rebel town in Libya - they have several stacks there but I should be able to create a big enough Cavalry army to take them, eventually - provided they don't move HOWEVER

Now definitely losing war with Pontus - Jerusalem is besieged and will fall, have minimal troops in Alexandria/ Thebes (Memphis is rebel). Still cannot generate large income (cannot build more than ports, although I can use shipwrights/ dockyards when build before I arrived) - all cities are on low taxes (and blue) as there is no law and order temple - and the secret police network is pretty poor.

My (desperation) plan, is to erase Sidon/ Jerusalem, withdraw all forces to near Alexandria by boat and try to play defence on the Nile Bridges - where Chariots should have less influence. Would this work?

[Vincent Butler]

*** Help ***

Some advice on strategy would be appreciated for the current Numidian Campaign.

have taken Segesta (inland town, no use other than money)

HOWEVER

Now definitely losing war with Pontus - Jerusalem is besieged and will fall, have minimal troops in Alexandria/ Thebes (Memphis is rebel). Still cannot generate large income (cannot build more than ports, although I can use shipwrights/ dockyards when build before I arrived) - all cities are on low taxes (and blue) as there is no law and order temple - and the secret police network is pretty poor.

My (desperation) plan, is to erase Sidon/ Jerusalem, withdraw all forces to near Alexandria by boat and try to play defence on the Nile Bridges - where Chariots should have less influence. Would this work?

I take it you mean Segestica, Segesta is in Liguria, in the northwestern coastal corner of Italy. Probably should have ignored it and straight out attacked the Aegean Peninsula.

Yes, bridges are nice for eliminating chariots, especially if one has phalanx. However, since you don't, it can still work, but probably want to put your spearmen in guard mode, it seems they absorb cavalry charges better like that. If you can fight in a city, that works very well, too, since the streets make it harder for chariots to maneuver. Also, you stand a better chance of having the chariots more strung out, so the full unit can't hit you at once, and they also can't hit you at full speed, so no real charge bonus for them (same effect at bridge). Again, use Guard mode with Desert Infantry. I have not played much as Numidia, but what I have done involved in-town fighting, so their chariots lose the advantage. With Numidia's quality of units, you don't want to face chariots in the open field.

The problem with city fighting is that it gives the advantage to their pikemen. That is where the Numidian Legionaries come in handy, as spearmen get an attack penalty fighting other infantry (-4) while using their spears. Once they switch to swords, their attack lessens but the penalty goes away; Phalanx Pikemen lose 3 attack when they switch to swords, while Bronze Shields lose 5. Best if you can fight them on the walls, with Numidian Legionaries, otherwise your Desert Infantry will lose 4 attack fighting their infantry.

Also, (sorry, RS~:wave:), don't scorn to use slingers against light infantry, and they also will help against chariots. I first learned that as Parthia, but in my experience slingers do very well against chariots, even just the standard slinger units. The Rhodians and Balearic do even better, because of their longer range. If fighting Spain, I absolutely love sling units. They decimate the light infantry and cav of the Iberians.

[weejonnie]

Played some simulations on a Nile bridge defence. Have won with 8 archers against 2 X Heavy Chariots, 2 X chariot archers, 2 X hillmen and 2 X pikemen (not bronze). You do need the archers close to the banks of the river and close to the bridge to fire accross - and it helps having your infantry facing the bridge to avoid being halved by the chariot archers. A few bursts of fire-arrows usually does the trick for the chariots. Slingers aren't as good (or rather not needed - since you usually have sufficient arrows left)

The good news, for me, is that the other side will be attacking - and so have to cross the bridge.

[Vincent Butler]

Played some simulations on a Nile bridge defence. Have won with 8 archers against 2 X Heavy Chariots, 2 X chariot archers, 2 X hillmen and 2 X pikemen (not bronze). You do need the archers close to the banks of the river and close to the bridge to fire accross - and it helps having your infantry facing the bridge to avoid being halved by the chariot archers. A few bursts of fire-arrows usually does the trick for the chariots. Slingers aren't as good (or rather not needed - since you usually have sufficient arrows left)

The good news, for me, is that the other side will be attacking - and so have to cross the bridge.

Slingers will not always have the range to reach across the river, unless they are Rhodian or Balearic. I usually have slingers hit missile troops across the bridge, if I can, and the archers fire into the masses crossing the bridge. The roles can be reversed. Archers are just as good as slingers for demolishing chariots, but I prefer to save the archer fire for armoured units, as slingers are less effective against them; my slingers hit the light units.

I almost never attack across a bridge, but rather let the enemy attack me. I always like to have an Onager in case the enemy has one; one flaming projectile hit can wipe out twenty men or better, so I use the Onager to provide counter-artillery fire. Also support, but then the Onager is flush against the rear of my troops, as I have had my Onager on flaming projectiles hit my own troops on a particularly bad shot and wipe out a lot of men. I use flame against infantry because if you do land a hit, you will wipe out as many or more than combined hits without flame, even though you may get more hits without flame.

Enemy missile units in general will line up on the opposite banks to fire at you. Slingers will not always be able to fire back because of range, as I said earlier. That is really nice.

[ReluctantSamurai]

cannot build more than ports, although I can use shipwrights/ dockyards when build before I arrived

You should check your "export_descr_buildings" directory. In the "building port_buildings" section under shipwrights/dockyards, there is a list of factions that can build them. IIRC, Numidia's capabilities in this respect, are lumped in with Carthage. Every faction has the capability for Shipwrights, no exceptions. Only Carthage, Eastern, Parthia, Greek, and Roman, are listed for Dockyards. I've played a Numidian campaign several times, and I can tell you I could construct dockyards and recruit quinqueremes:shrug:


there is no law and order temple

The Temple of Baal is as good as it gets for the Numidians...20%/20% Law/Happiness. Not as good as some Roman or Greek temples, but better than a lot of barbarian cultures:shrug:

Where is your capital? A screenshot of the extent of your current empire would be helpful in determining the best place to put it:yes:


You do need the archers close to the banks of the river and close to the bridge to fire accross

I would highly recommend that you keep your archers away from the river bank. Since Shogun I, the best arrangement for bridge defense is a wide semi-circle where the infantry is far enough from the river to not incur arrow fire from the opposite bank. Position your archers on the outside edges of the semi-circle facing inwards towards the bridge (and behind the infantry). If you are facing multiple stacks, try and keep at least two archer units in reserve for when the initial defenders run out of arrows. Remove the fire-at-will, and have them tactically grouped into two units. The reason for this is that when troops exit the bridge on your side, they typically turn right or left trying to flank you (which they can't). Arrow fire from the rear (or side) is twice as decimating as frontal fire...so activate the group that hits them in the rear when they turn.

Keep your cavalry to the outside & rear of the semi-circle to "escort" routers off of the battlefield~D

Using this method, on occasion, I've managed to kill every single attacking soldier, even with multiple attacking stacks.

All that practice in Shoggie I served me well in RTW~;)


Also, (sorry, RS), don't scorn to use slingers against light infantry, and they also will help against chariots.

No need to apologize:shrug: Just a matter of preference...

[weejonnie]

You should check your "export_descr_buildings" directory. In the "building port_buildings" section under shipwrights/dockyards, there is a list of factions that can build them. IIRC, Numidia's capabilities in this respect, are lumped in with Carthage. Every faction has the capability for Shipwrights, no exceptions. Only Carthage, Eastern, Parthia, Greek, and Roman, are listed for Dockyards. I've played a Numidian campaign several times, and I can tell you I could construct dockyards and recruit quinqueremes:shrug:



The Temple of Baal is as good as it gets for the Numidians...20%/20% Law/Happiness. Not as good as some Roman or Greek temples, but better than a lot of barbarian cultures:shrug:

Where is your capital? A screenshot of the extent of your current empire would be helpful in determining the best place to put it:yes:



I would highly recommend that you keep your archers away from the river bank. Since Shogun I, the best arrangement for bridge defense is a wide semi-circle where the infantry is far enough from the river to not incur arrow fire from the opposite bank. Position your archers on the outside edges of the semi-circle facing inwards towards the bridge (and behind the infantry). If you are facing multiple stacks, try and keep at least two archer units in reserve for when the initial defenders run out of arrows. Remove the fire-at-will, and have them tactically grouped into two units. The reason for this is that when troops exit the bridge on your side, they typically turn right or left trying to flank you (which they can't). Arrow fire from the rear (or side) is twice as decimating as frontal fire...so activate the group that hits them in the rear when they turn.

Keep your cavalry to the outside & rear of the semi-circle to "escort" routers off of the battlefield~D

Using this method, on occasion, I've managed to kill every single attacking soldier, even with multiple attacking stacks.

All that practice in Shoggie I served me well in RTW~;)



No need to apologize:shrug: Just a matter of preference...

My capital is in Africa - the town to the South-East of Thaspus - I suppose I should move it to Croton/ Syracuse. That way it won't be too far from Carthage but Italian towns will benefit.

THink I will split the game:

1) Carry on as now (try and save Jerusalem/ Sidon)
2) Try and set up Nile Bridge Defence
3) Abandon Sidon and use forces to attack Tarsus/ Helicarnassus - keep on the Greek Campaign
4) As 3 - but transport forces going down Greece over to Turkey as well - Use Patavium as backstop.

My aim in Turkey is probably to destroy the towns as Military Bases and then move on to the next - not to worry if they revert to rebels, as rebels can't co-ordinate. My advantage will be that I can destroy towns in Turkey faster than Pontus can build them up in the Nile Valley/ Judea. Win Seige, Exterminate Town, Retrain 7 and recruit 1 unit. Next turn: destroy infrastructure and move on.

[ReluctantSamurai]

the town to the South-East of Thaspus

Lepcis Magna. A city on Sicily, or Croton might be more centrally located. If you own all of Greece, Athens makes an excellent capital, though your Spanish conquests won't like that too much:no:

I believe in the "Distance-to-Capital" thread above, there is a link with an interactive map that shows you the penalties to every city on the map based on the city you choose for your capital. After awhile it just becomes intuitive as to where to place it, but it's good to know what the actual numbers are:book2:

[weejonnie]

Lepcis Magna. A city on Sicily, or Croton might be more centrally located. If you own all of Greece, Athens makes an excellent capital, though your Spanish conquests won't like that too much:no:

I believe in the "Distance-to-Capital" thread above, there is a link with an interactive map that shows you the penalties to every city on the map based on the city you choose for your capital. After awhile it just becomes intuitive as to where to place it, but it's good to know what the actual numbers are:book2:

Thanks for that - also corruption with Numidia is horrendous. (Read the profile about corruption - now going to build law and order buildings and forget about acadamies)

Addenda

Changing Capital really worked - thanks - now 10K a turn instead of 4K = more growth + recruits

Re: corruption.

Although the maximum level of corruption tapers off, it would appear that the algorithm is:

workout out level of corruption based on distance.
Subtract/ add law facilities/ traits.
If result > 60% then result = 60%

Meaning that for towns a long way away, increasing law and order may not actually (at least initially) result in any reduction in corruption.

Re: Pontus

Fortunately the AI is pretty stupid - I was stuck in Jerusalem with a few archers/ legionaries/ desert infantry and missile cavalry and 'sallied forth' - to discover that I had not one, but two stacks of enemy to handle. Including Onagers (why they never used them the turn before I don't know).

The main enemy lined itself up in front of one gate - within reach of archer fire, so after getting rid of the chariots/ onagers and using all my arrows, I basically let the natural city defences kill the enemy. The same happened with the other army - so the final score was something like 1900 troops killed (I had a platoon of archers outside the city by mistake - they routed 3 or 4 groups before being routed themselves.

Basically, until the cavalry sallied forth at the end to wipe out the remnants, my 'sallying forth, consisted of opening the gates by 'attacking' with one unit so the enemy moved (making them more vulnerable to archers), and then closing them again by retreating back to the city.

I now have 7 or 8 small groups of Pontus troops dotted around the Middle East, who don't seem to be doing anything.

Update.

Things are moving on - I now just let Pontus seige Sidon/ Jerusalem knowing I can defeat them. In the meantime I have captured Rhodes (from the Scipii) and am beseiging Helicarnassus (Pontus). Hope to grab at least another city before Pontus can bring their forces back (In which case I will squeeze them in the South by taking Damascus and Antioch). The Greek position is interesting - the Brutii have two (Athens/ Larissa) and the Scipii Corinth (big stack) and Sparta (wide open). this reduces the forces the Brutii can send against Thermon Thrace is the major Greek culture survivor (5 provinces) and has kept the Brutii from the Black Sea. In Africa Memphis is still a pain (large rebel stack), but am about to kick the Scipii from their sole bastion.

Update

Captains Log: Startdate 199BC - going West to East

The alliance with Spain has lasted 60 years. Spain is fighting Brittania. This has been a Godsend as I have not had to worry about Tingi.

Brittania has won the battle of the Barbarians and now occupies all of Britain and Transalpine Gaul (other than the province in the South east which the Julii still occupy on my sufferenace as a 'buffer state') and the town to the North of Patavium.
.
The Brutii have expanded in central Europe. Germania and Dacia no longer exist. However their southernmost town is Bylazora! So presume they are really hurting finanically with no access to the mediterranean.

Greece is now entirely Numidian. As Larissa, Athens,Sparta denuded themselves of garrisons in turn, quick surgical strikes removed them. (Appolonia I starved out). Thrace is being bellicose but after Pontus seems quite manageable. With no threats in Southern Greece, I can concentrate on building armies to move northwards.

As may be surmised, the Scipii are now dead. A large garrison in Corinth moved out towards Athens leaving the city relatively undefended. A couple of onagers and that was that.

The forces accross the Mediterranean acted rather strangely - there were about 5 stacks of troops but all they seemed to want to do was to go home - instead of recapturing the town. I very kindly let them board ships - and then sank them. I still have a couple of very large rebel forces left - but my experience is that they don't beseige towns.

Moving accross the Adriatic into Turkey, Three Pontus cities have been taken and basically this has cut down the threat - I now am beseiged by weaker forces numerically.

In Egypt Memphis has now been recaptured - took a couple of blows to do it and I just let the AI sort it out. This obviously has knock-on effect for Jerusalem/ Sidon which are now easier to control.

The faction Egypt is no more - the faction leader seems to have set out with suicide in mind - anyway he arrived alone with his bodyguard chariots and 4 sets of archers dispatched him. Of the last two towns (both rebel now of course) I took one and, despite Pontus besiging the other, it was actually Parthia that took it. First time I have seen any action from that faction. If I do go to war with Parthia then it will defintely be missile-based armies I send.

Current plans - set up armies to face Britannia - probably with desert infantry to combat the warbands. Keep the Brutii/ Thracians at arms length (possibly take Byzantium). Continue to take Pontus coastal towns and Antioch/ Damascus. (Damascus is still a town). If I hold Antioch (will be able to move forces from Sidon/ Jerusalem to buffer it) then Pontus will have lost half its major cities - it has already lost all its Mediterranean trade.

Overall - 7 cities to take. 4 are on my shopping list (Antioch/ Damascus/ Byzantium/ - and the city opposite it.) The fifth will probably be the last Julii holdout - and will starve them provided Britannia don't interfere. The last two will be as circumstances provide.

Thoughts on performance etc

1) with forces that aren't the best in the world, the best way to take cities is naval strikes and use Onagers to prevent battles with reinforcements. I haven't used onagers previously, preferring sapping, since they are slow to move - the extra turn needed for sapping is usually the extra turn (or more) to get an army with onagers to the town.

2) Numidian archers aren't the best in the world either- but they are very cheap, can be recruited virtually anywhere. Numidian Legionaires have been of limited use so far since they take two turns to recruit and aren't as useful against Roman forces as cavalry. They should be useful against Brittannia though. (No phalanxes/ archers).

3) You have to tailor your armies to meet your opponents - against the Romans (no spears) cavalry is marvellous. Against Pontus you need archers and infantry, with only a little cavalry, as they have more missile troops and spears/ phalanxes

4) The inability to construct more than ports certainly held me back - but at least you can build triremes/ quinquiremes in the places that do have shipwrights/ dockyards - don't know if this is by design or a bug in the data sheets.

Captain's log - 183BC

Spain are still allies - although it was galling losing a 10* command Spanish general in a fight with Britannia before my forces (appearing as reinforcements) could get there to support him on the battlefield.

Britannia has lost their sole port on the Mediterranean sea. Otherwise no movements - other than a few stacks being destroyed.

Carthage is no more. Palma (their last holdout) was invaded by both Spain and myself - but I attacked first. Similarly the Julii have gone the way of Nimevah and Tyre.

The Brutii have been kicked out of Bylazora and now are presumably shivering in the wastelands of central/ eastern Europe. (I have seen no post-Marius troops, presumably the conditions were never met).

Thrace is down to three territories (all inland) - well defended.

Pontus (despite Tarsus rebelling back to them) is down to one small town (I have it on my list). Scythia, Armenia and Parthia are small and the distance between the cities slows down any expansion.

Basically I am like Alexander, crying because there are no more places to conquer.

Captain's Log 162BC

Pontus is no more - I destroyed their last town.

Spain broke the Alliance - and are now history (took Corduba from Tingi and poured in from Southern Gaul) - Those Bull Warriors can be nasty - about the only thing to deal with them cheaply is to send several units of cavalry into them so their brown trousers become even browner.

Brittanica is wiped out - I sent a massive fleet round Spain/ France to take out Londinium and without the Channel trade they couldn't finance the war - then it was a case of just fighting 2-stacks V 1 stack. I don't like close battles, I prefer heavy odds in my favour.

Thrace is wiped out - I besieged their remaining Cities and wiped them out with archers when they sallied forth.

Scythia is no more - two territories were wiped out without trouble.

I chased the Brutii out of Germanica and finally took their last town of Themiskyra - that mythical place at the top. (In fact I killed the faction leader in a fight just before reaching it - so it had rebelled - with British Chariots:rolleyes:) - it was amusing getting rid of 15 fleets of ex-Brutii ships.

Memphis rebelled (again) but my army of 2400 peasants recaptured it.

If you're paying attention (short quiz next period) you will know that I am down to Parthia and Armenia. Am just playing for fun (autoresolve). Both are down to 3 cities so the game will be over in time for Christmas.

TBH I am not garrisoning cities effectively, leaving too many crack troops in them instead of using them to spread the gospel. I have about 10 stacks of troops pouring into Parthia which, IMHO is overkill (Using Patavium as a staging post as it is a huge city with a foundry) I have one city with a huge temple of hercules (+3 experience) but as it is always close to rebelling I can't really use it.#

Captain's Log 145BC

From sunrise to sunset the world is Numidian. (Stopping recruiting really boosted income - was running at 64K a turn) - Neither Armenia, Nor Parthia offered much resistance - I just autoresolved every battle (lost a couple but I always had a few armies up the sleeve) and waited for the enemy to starve on seiges (which is why it took so long). One city rode out against me, but about 10 troops of archers wiped them off the map (they ran out of arrows).

Next Faction: Pontus - Looks as if I should head West to take the Bosphorus. That should give sufficient income to get started.

[Vincent Butler]

I have a Julii campaign, and Greece took out Egypt, all Egypt had left was Salamis, before the Scipii then took out Greece. Not liking this; Scipii and Brutii both powerful, I am not doing great financially, so if one of them starts the civil war, I am not ready for this. But anyway, I have only seen one other non-Roman faction take out Egypt, and that was Pontus, who made it all the way to Carthage. By the way, with only Salamis left (I don't think in that turn they had any other cities), Egypt was the most advanced faction. Go figure.

[weejonnie]

I have a Julii campaign, and Greece took out Egypt, all Egypt had left was Salamis, before the Scipii then took out Greece. Not liking this; Scipii and Brutii both powerful, I am not doing great financially, so if one of them starts the civil war, I am not ready for this. But anyway, I have only seen one other non-Roman faction take out Egypt, and that was Pontus, who made it all the way to Carthage. By the way, with only Salamis left (I don't think in that turn they had any other cities), Egypt was the most advanced faction. Go figure.

I never really bother with 'most advanced faction' - presumably it just works out the average development of all the cities that a faction has. This may mean, for instance, that if you capture a 'large town' then another faction becomes the 'most advanced'.

With regards to the civil war - when I played the Julii and realised I was getting too popular/ unpopular, I surreptitiously moved my forces into Greece and then Blitzkrieged the Brutii before the civil war officially started. The Scipii in that game had a lot of forces in Africa, which I just blockaded. Take out Greece and you get all the money and leave the Brutii with scraps.

(In my current Numidia Game, I took out the Brutii in Italy, which left them Greece, took them out in Greece, forcing them northwards and am now continuing pushing them North - they have a lot of towns, but basically small small ones in what was Germanica. It is 183 bc and it looks as if the Marius reforms never took place - I took out Italy very quickly (basically as soon as Carthage fell))

(Spain declared war on me - the traitors. SO I have taken out Cordoba (besieged but will hold), besieging Carthago Nova and just thrashed 6 armies in 3 battles in the Pyrennees. I decided to release my trained forces from garrison duty by recruiting pheasants and have something like 10 full stacks rushing around - Thrace's two remaining cities are besieged by 1 1/2 stacks. However the game is basically over.)

[ReluctantSamurai]

I still have a couple of very large rebel forces left - but my experience is that they don't beseige towns

On VH setting for the campaign map [not battle difficulty], they do.


The inability to construct more than ports certainly held me back

You should check your export_descr_buildings directory. Numidia was capable of both shipwrights and dockyards in my Numidian campaigns.


I have a Julii campaign......I am not doing great financially

Kinda the nature of the beast if you stick to the traditional Julii expansion into barbarian lands.

I haven't played them too often, but the last time I did, that first boatload of troops doesn't go to Caralis, but to Greece~D If Athens is still rebel-held, it's the first target, otherwise Sparta is the primary target (with its Temple of Nike, you can pump out +2 exp troops long before anyone else has them). You boost your own economy while taking away from the Brutii, and you let the SPQR "doomstack" help repel incursions from Gaul while you ramp up...

[Vincent Butler]

I never really bother with 'most advanced faction' - presumably it just works out the average development of all the cities that a faction has. This may mean, for instance, that if you capture a 'large town' then another faction becomes the 'most advanced'.

With regards to the civil war - when I played the Julii and realised I was getting too popular/ unpopular, I surreptitiously moved my forces into Greece and then Blitzkrieged the Brutii before the civil war officially started. The Scipii in that game had a lot of forces in Africa, which I just blockaded. Take out Greece and you get all the money and leave the Brutii with scraps.



I don't pay much attention to most advanced faction, but I thought it was funny.

How did you blitzkrieg the Brutii before the civil war started? In my experience, you can't attack the other Romans unless ordered to do so by the Senate or when the Chance for Power happens. Unless somebody knows more, and if you hit a certain popularity with the people, then you can do so. I have been able to do so after a second Chance for Power, I guess; I did not do it in that turn but later in the game I was able to do so, so I guess a Chance for Power does not mean you have to attack in that turn.

As far as that Julii campaign, I am doing better now that I am taking Britain. I was down to -27,000, but that is because Corduba had kicked me out and I did not possess the army capable of retaking it right then. I used that army to take another town, and the rebel stack in Corduba decided to attack some Spanish armies in the area. I created a small army taking units from other cities, and retook Corduba because the main stack had chased a Spanish army too far away to relieve Corduba in one turn, and did not bother to move to assist when I besieged it. Still not doing superb, but doing OK now. Capua kicked the Scipii out, so I took that as well.

[weejonnie]

I don't pay much attention to most advanced faction, but I thought it was funny.

How did you blitzkrieg the Brutii before the civil war started? In my experience, you can't attack the other Romans unless ordered to do so by the Senate or when the Chance for Power happens. Unless somebody knows more, and if you hit a certain popularity with the people, then you can do so. I have been able to do so after a second Chance for Power, I guess; I did not do it in that turn but later in the game I was able to do so, so I guess a Chance for Power does not mean you have to attack in that turn.

As far as that Julii campaign, I am doing better now that I am taking Britain. I was down to -27,000, but that is because Corduba had kicked me out and I did not possess the army capable of retaking it right then. I used that army to take another town, and the rebel stack in Corduba decided to attack some Spanish armies in the area. I created a small army taking units from other cities, and retook Corduba because the main stack had chased a Spanish army too far away to relieve Corduba in one turn, and did not bother to move to assist when I besieged it. Still not doing superb, but doing OK now. Capua kicked the Scipii out, so I took that as well.

It was my first game - and there was something funny as I could not retrain units back to starting levels. But basically once I knew that I was approaching the civil war then I moved my forces into/ close to four Greek Cities - once I was told that I was popular enough with the masses I then attacked and took all 4 of them simultaneously. I was expecting a note from the Senate demanding suicide.

[Vincent Butler]

once I was told that I was popular enough with the masses I then attacked and took all 4 of them simultaneously. I was expecting a note from the Senate demanding suicide.

You don't always get that note. Usually you get it either around your second Chance for Power, or you have been popular for too long. Usually I have only seen it after the first Chance for Power.

[Vincent Butler]

So along the lines of popularity, the Brutii got ambitious and attacked me. I ended up losing Salona to an army with many Urban and Praetorian Cohort. However, I launched my own quick attacks and took Tarentum and Croton. I also took Sparta, Corinth, and Athens. Syracuse and Lilybaem were rebel, so I took those too, so my finances seem stable at least. That helps counter the loss of trade with the Brutii in Greece. But I digress.

When the Brutii attacked me, the Senate outlawed myself and the Brutii, and the Scipii, for some reason, too. They probably declined the Senate's mission to attack me or the Brutii. So I was at war with the Brutii and the Senate, but still allied with the Scipii. I got a Chance for Power, but did not launch an attack. I think all that meant was that I was popular enough to turn on the Roman factions. I have no need to fight the Scipii right now, and am already at war with the Senate and the Brutii, so there was no point in launching an attack. I need to hurry up, though, because time is running out. My finances are actually better than the Brutii. Only Britannia is left of the non-Roman factions.

I think the Brutii got a Chance for Power because they were very popular with the people, and decided to make me their first target. I now am popular enough, but have no need or readiness to take advantage of it. Since I am already at war with the Senate, I can attack them whenever I want.

[weejonnie]

Changed to playing Gaul -just defeated the SPQR Stack on my version of the River Trebia - parked on Tiber, Roman army tried to ford river, hit them repeatedly with Barbarian Cavalry (not the nobles). Not sure when but have played for 20 years - and 36 provinces. (No Brits, No Romans, No Spanish), Greek cities down to Sparta (that will teach them to break an alliance), Germans on way out (stupid faction - sued for peace, I asked for Trier, they agreed, then the next turn they resumed hostilities), I sacked Corduba, Palma and Caralis the same turn against the Carthaginians. Macedon looks tricky as it holds Athens, Corinth, Larissa, Thessalonica and Bylazorum) and at the moment I have a mainly cavalry-orientated army over there. So maybe Dacia to speed up victory. (Egypt may be coming into play).

Frankly, I could build better boats than the Gauls.

[Vincent Butler]

(Egypt may be coming into play).

Frankly, I could build better boats than the Gauls.

Barbarians are not set up well to deal with Egypt. At least you have the archers to deal with them, and since their backup weapon is a spear, they fare better against cav, a prime consideration against Egypt. Your Swordsmen and Chosen Swordsmen can handle their infantry, and your cav can deal with their archers, provided there are no chariots. If realism is no concern, take Druids along as well, the enemy will rout faster with them chanting. Naked Fanatics are not worth much, so I would not worry about them.

I do not like the barbarian navies either, but they weren't as good as Roman ships, so that is at least realistic.

[weejonnie]

Barbarians are not set up well to deal with Egypt. At least you have the archers to deal with them, and since their backup weapon is a spear, they fare better against cav, a prime consideration against Egypt. Your Swordsmen and Chosen Swordsmen can handle their infantry, and your cav can deal with their archers, provided there are no chariots. If realism is no concern, take Druids along as well, the enemy will rout faster with them chanting. Naked Fanatics are not worth much, so I would not worry about them.

I do not like the barbarian navies either, but they weren't as good as Roman ships, so that is at least realistic.

The only good thing is that I dispatched those perfidious Romans very quickly, so didn't have to face them. The ships still sink in anything stronger than a zephyr.

Was trying to do 50 provinces in 50 turns - ended up with 44 - Central/ Eastern Europe is very spread out which slows up matters and I always try and be honourable (dont break alliances until really necessary), which probably cost me Tingi and Cirta. However Numidia has taken Carthage (The Carthaginian force trying to recapture it decided to attack my forces beseiging Thapsus.) Can win without Egypt as Dacia/ Greece takes me over the limit. Will finish of with Themiskyra.

[Vincent Butler]

The only good thing is that I dispatched those perfidious Romans very quickly, so didn't have to face them. The ships still sink in anything stronger than a zephyr.

Will finish of with Themiskyra.

Will soon take Themiskyra myself, in my Greek campaign. Taking that, Campus Sakae, and then Lugdunum and Samarobriva (those two just kicked me out), will mean the entire map is under Greek control. Have done that as Julii, Brutii, Greece, Macedon, and Seleucia.

Do you encounter a lot of storms, then, with the zephyr quote? I leave my navies in port unless I am fighting or transporting, so I don't encounter storms a lot, though I have seen it happen to navies out at sea before.

[weejonnie]

Will soon take Themiskyra myself, in my Greek campaign. Taking that, Campus Sakae, and then Lugdunum and Samarobriva (those two just kicked me out), will mean the entire map is under Greek control. Have done that as Julii, Brutii, Greece, Macedon, and Seleucia.

Do you encounter a lot of storms, then, with the zephyr quote? I leave my navies in port unless I am fighting or transporting, so I don't encounter storms a lot, though I have seen it happen to navies out at sea before.

No - the worst natural disaster was an earthquake at Byzantium - which I had conquered only a couple of turns previously (in removing Macedon). I am behind schedule of 100 regions in 100 turns since the far eastern towns are so far apart, but am down to Pontus (6), Armenia (2) Parthia (3) Scythia (4) and Egypt (3). I do have a fleet of 15 boats and 3 large boats, but no one to fight against.