Let's all boycot the Console TW [Archive]

Pausanias828

03-05-2005, 20:09

Console TW?

Did I miss something?

Haha, it sounds like you mostly certainly did. CA are teaming up with Sega to produce a game called Spartan Total Warrior. It's been mentioned in numerous threads both here, and at other TW sites.

This is where it all started http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm7.showMessage?topicID=23001.topic

This is where we found the answer http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/articles/index.php?game_id=4524&article_id=7321

Tux

03-05-2005, 20:10

They didn't say they will get rid off the total war games also from what i see the release date it's just a quick job for some money and the development isn't so long as for it was for rome, after the succes of rome they had the money to buy more crew and this is how they will use them to expand.Didn't they make two games for ps2 also for money in the same time they made shogun some rugby games.Here: http://www.creative-assembly.com/products.html

Red Harvest

03-05-2005, 20:26

Do I have to buy a console so that I can boycott it? The only console I have is an ancient Intellivision...and I doubt they will be making any titles for that.

frogbeastegg

03-05-2005, 21:02

We barely even know anything about the game.

This sounds to me like an effort to expand, not to replace the PC games - successful expansion potentially brings more resources and players to the PC games. Failed expansion means money, respect, development time and, probably, employees are lost, and that will hurt the PC games.

Medieval Assassin

03-05-2005, 21:08

So, it's probably not going to be like Shogun or Medieval...or Rome?

Colovion

03-05-2005, 21:08

Sicne I don't have a console, I won't be buying it. Simple.

I find that for me, consoles are way too expensive for the returns I reap. I mean back when Goldeneye came out for the N64 it was awesome; me and my friend went out and bought an N64 behind my parent's back with all the money we had saved up. It was that game alone that spurred us to buy the console. I've yet to be drawn to a game that readily since then... well unless it was on computer and forcing me to upgrade my system (RTW/HL2/WoW)

Uesugi Kenshin

03-06-2005, 04:32

I have an Xbox, but I will not buy it. I may rent it.... Once it comes out if I rent it I will tell you guys how it is.

They better not get rid of TW for this. PC games are almost always better than console games and PC Strategy games are the best of them all....

Byzantine Prince

03-06-2005, 04:39

I wish they made an RPG total war game. That would be amazing. You could be like ligionaire, a centurion, a Spartan, or an Emperor. Wouldn't that be the most wonderful game ever?!?!

Suladan

03-06-2005, 05:03

Uesugi Kenshin

03-06-2005, 05:12

BP remember making an RTS/Turn based strategy game is very different from making an RPG. But it would be refreshing to get another good sword age RPG, something to compete with Fable.

lars573

03-06-2005, 05:18

News like this always makes me a bit nervous because other game developers have already abandoned the PC game market in favor of the console market. Most notably in the RPG genre. It would be a shame for this to become a trend in the strategy genre as well.

Well the only reason that developers "abandon" the PC market. That reason is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. There is 5X more money to made from making a game for a console than the PC. You have the entire Japanese market opened up by making a game for a console. And developers don't abandon the PC market they just put it second. They make games that are bound for a console first then come to the PC.

Let's all boycot the Console TW

Umm no, in fact I'll make sure that I'm first in line to buy it just to piss you off.

Uesugi Kenshin

03-06-2005, 05:24

I do not think the strategy game devlopers will be jumping ship, the PC offers much greater performance when compared to all consoles, easier online play and keyboards and mice! Many FPS developers will be staying, because let's face it without modders Half Life would have lasted half as long as it did max.

lars573

03-06-2005, 05:51

Agreed. I have played many kinds of strategy games on consoles and have come to a few conclusions.

1.RTS games will never work on a console, the interface is lacking buttons and a mouse
2.TBS games can work very well on a console

That said a strategy game with very different ideas can be made to work in real time. Kessen 2 is good example of this. Each battle you can have armies made of up to 20 units each between 1000 and 20,000 men in size. You control 1 unit at a time. Using the analog stick to manuver it around. you can hold down on the d-pad and you build your men up for a charge. you can also access the officers special abilities like furious charge (for cav and elephant units) rally, arrow volley. And magical power like fissure, meteor, thunder storm and others.

Doug-Thompson

03-06-2005, 06:13

Anybody who tries something like a console Spartan game might be tempted to buy the real thing. Sounds like a way to help CA's bottom line and a clever marketing tool, too.

Also, consoles-makers ambitions for more online play are boundless. I'd argue that RTW tactical battles are quite similar to what I imagine a console-based battle would be: Quick and bloody.

Red Harvest

03-06-2005, 07:40

Umm no, in fact I'll make sure that I'm first in line to buy it just to piss you off.

What an a$$.

Zawath

03-06-2005, 08:29

Arrowhead

03-06-2005, 10:59

Umm no, in fact I'll make sure that I'm first in line to buy it just to piss you off.

LOL!!!! ~D Great Idea!

Byzantine Prince

03-06-2005, 11:05

I don't see the point of boycotting anything. If you don't enjoy something then you naturally don't have to buy it. What bitch and moan about it?

Husar

03-06-2005, 11:33

I wouldn´t boycott it as well, I don´t have a console and don´t want one, but why should you boycott a game about which you don´t know much more than the name, genre and platform?
The idea of controlling a single warrior in huge battles sounds nice to me, maybe even with some RPG elements, I do like RPG, but I dislike fantasy, sadly I cannot think of any RPG that is not fantasy at the moment. There is a game called Joan of Arc the t is trying to come close to this, but on one hand it looks like a smaller project and on the other hand it is too much arcade, though I liked fighting from a horse and fighting alongside fellow warriors in the demo.
Concerning console and PC ports, I usually don´t like them, it´s ok if they make a game for PC and then port it to console, but the other way around very often gives these games a bad feeling on the PC, because controls and graphics are often not up to PC-standards.

Armchair Athlete

03-06-2005, 11:34

There is potentially quite a lot of good that could come from a console game. CA can make it as fantasy as they like, most of the console market isnt really going to care greatly, they will make a lot of money (quite likely) which means that future total war games may result in a return to the pattern of STW and MTW, with more accurate realism (compared to RTW) and less of an RTS style game. There may be less of a pure drive for profits in the PC market. Now this is all a bit wishful thinking and may not be the case, but it is no more unfounded speculation than statements like "CA will abandon the PC market" ~;)

The Stranger

03-06-2005, 12:38

LOL!!!! ~D Great Idea!

oh wanna fight, just wait till i get you and i'll kick your ass back to the moon

Mikeus Caesar

03-06-2005, 14:37

I have a console (PS2), but i won't be buying any CA games for it. I only bought my PS2 so that i could play the GTA games.

hoom

03-06-2005, 14:44

I have a pre-existing console boycott anyway.

Kessen 2 is good example of this. Each battle you can have armies made of up to 20 units each between 1000 and 20,000 men in size. How does it display the units?

Arrowhead

03-06-2005, 16:11

oh wanna fight, just wait till i get you and i'll kick your ass back to the moon

Come on then, how are you going to get me? HA Ha ha haaaaa hah! :laugh4:

What yer going to do, bleed on me? Watch out, I have the great beast of Arrrrrrrghhh with me!

Divinus Arma

03-06-2005, 16:42

I think any expansion is a good idea for CA so long as they maintain the integrity of their organization. For example, Coca-Cola is constantly trying to expand its empire with new products (C2, vanilla coke, etc.), though they continue to survive and prosper because of the appeal of their original product.

This is a simple business decision. The question is whether or not CA will abandon its foundation for new ventures. A hugely successfull franchise off-shoot may become a franchise of its own. If CA then embraces this new direction and turns away from its original product line, then we may bitch.

As a young gamer I has enormous respect for EA games until they overdiversified and sacrificed their quality for quantity (ever heard of Sword of Sodan?).

Diversification and expansion should be encouraged and welcomed by all members of the community. With a larger reserve of capital, more brand name recognition, and a wider audience, CA can pour money into its founding product line and experiment with new products that may delight us even more.

On a similar note, if CA maintains the integrity of its historical accuracy in Spartan total Warrior, this may actual be a pretty cool game.

Congratulations CA. I wish you the best on this venture and hope it brings you great success.

Regards.

The Stranger

03-06-2005, 16:48

Come on then, how are you going to get me? HA Ha ha haaaaa hah! :laugh4:

What yer going to do, bleed on me? Watch out, I have the great beast of Arrrrrrrghhh with me!

well i ain't afraid cause i got my immortal gaylords with me that will **** you to death.

Medieval Assassin

03-06-2005, 16:50

Maybe CA are just looking for big money for the next TW game, sure If I like this game I might buy it. It doesn't really have the "Total War" title.
Maybe they'll make "Total Warrior" for the console as a more adventerous game
And keep "Total War" going, and more historically accurate?

:S

Plus, didn't a CA person already say that work on another "total war" game has started. Or is in the planning stages.

FURRY_BOOTS

03-06-2005, 18:52

They are doing this because there a lot people that just want to control a one soldier and experience battles of thousands. Console is the only way to go because you can't do a good game like that on a PC.

And the PC Total War isn't dead. CA has a quite large team so they can easily work on 2-3 projects at the same time so right now they are doing the expansion pack for Rome, this console spin-off and possibly a new Total War game.

if the EP is as half arsed as rome, then as far as im concerned TW is over,
rome total realism is almost the game i was expecting/wanted, & ive said this before but alarm bells start ringing when you rely on mods more than a vanilla game, as a british company, im afraid CA have gone all "AMERICAN" (no offence intended citizens) but the mindset of pack em in & pile em high is at play here, money talks, always has, i just hope that a renegade splinter cell of CA rebels, forms their own company & gives us the game we want,,,, no,,,, DESERVE ~;)

hung41584

03-06-2005, 19:10

The Stranger

03-06-2005, 19:14

man RTR sucks, every time in the fourth Rebel turn it CTD's, it was good but 5.2 and 5.3 suck. also their skin sucks.

Suladan

03-06-2005, 19:28

And developers don't abandon the PC market they just put it second. They make games that are bound for a console first then come to the PC.

Sure they do. Look at Interplay. They had an established market for their Fallout series and had Fallout3 under development when they chose to shut down Black Isle Studios, lay off the staff, and shelve Fallout3 mid-development so they could focus on some console project that they didn't have an established market for.

Some console games that get ported to the PC platform can still be successful (GTA, KotOR, etc), but others end up as a PC game that still requires a gamepad controller to effectively navigate the UI (FFXI).

These are the reasons I'm not thrilled to see some of my favorite game developers embracing the console platform. Yes I realize it is often a sound financial strategy for them and it isn't something we can stop, but I don't have to like it.

Arrowhead

03-06-2005, 19:35

well i ain't afraid cause i got my immortal gaylords with me that will **** you to death.

I was just quoting monty python.

The Stranger

03-06-2005, 19:36

yeah Like Pro Evolution Soccer 3

The Stranger

03-06-2005, 19:37

I was just quoting monty python.

oh oke then never mind Arrow trough his head.

Arrowhead

03-06-2005, 19:41

oh oke then never mind Arrow trough his head.

Arrow through whose head? My head? If that were true I would be a very stupid archer (like the ones in RTW).

ichi

03-06-2005, 20:15

Sorry mates, but boycotts don't work.

For every person here who might participate, there's 5 out there who have never heard of the Org and will see the title and say 'wow this looks cool'.

However

For each one of those 'wow' guys there's 10 saying 'Sega stinks, my money goes to XBox or PS'.

So the real threat to us isn't that devs will flock to console and abandon us (altho that is a threat). It's that Spartan TW for Sega will bomb and some corporate bean-counters will say 'oh no we tried that and we lost big money so never make a TW game again'

Welcome to your future.

ichi

hrvojej

03-06-2005, 20:21

It's that Spartan TW for Sega will bomb and some corporate bean-counters will say 'oh no we tried that and we lost big money so never make a TW game again'

Do you think that they will be able to distinguish between Total War and Total Warrior then, as we are asked to do now? :smug:

I really wish I wasn't so hard to entertain...

Divinus Arma

03-06-2005, 20:28

Ichi,

I could be wrong but I am fairly certain that Sega is dead as a console after getting wasted in the console wars a couple years back. From my understanding they remain as a parent organization for software development on the "winning" consoles.
Check out their site in the states: http://www.sega.com/home.php
They don't even mention their own console.

It's kind of like the relationship between activision and Creative Assembly. Resource and profit sharing.

Regards.

frogbeastegg

03-06-2005, 21:35

Sega dropped out of console making years ago; now they are a developer and publisher. They have made some pretty good games in recent years, and some quite oddball ones at that. They have also been involved with PC games, publishing mostly IIRC, but they also converted and released some of their own games a while back.

Saga have a reasonable standing in the frog's books; if this announcement involved EA, Activision, Eidos, Microsoft, then I'd be more concerned. Sega have proven in my eyes that they will take risks, do new things and support their products (developed in-house or by others) so they come out [i]bug free and complete. So I am very slightly optimistic; if Sega ended up publishing future PC Total War titles in addition to the console ones we might get a better product ...

Eidos and Microsoft would be the worst possible people to be involved in this deal IMO; they are the companies I have the most experience with when it comes to late/shoddy/dropped PC games when consoles are involved.

I’m reserving judgement until more is know, both about the game and about the deals.

Ginger

03-06-2005, 22:21

I really wish CA wasnt as big and successful as it currently seems to be. Purely for selfish reasons I'll add.

Ive been a major follower of the Combat Mission series of games and where the real gem has been the companies lack of widespread commercial success and the fact that it doesn't care. Its got its community of dedicated Grognards that support the game and it produces pretty much perfect 3D tactical war games. Its success is that it keeps its head above water and keeps its niche community supplied with a great game.

My point- CA has become so successful that it needs a big corporate structure and if anything is losing touch with its hard-core players. This seems to be breeding a culture that misses the details, for example- the traits, AI save and pri-sec bugs all cry of rushing a product too fast and missing little bits here and there. The trait bugs seem to be mainly down to getting < round the wrong way- easy to do when under pressure. But the market is now large enough that the *bulk* of people wont care or notice these issues, they simply want the pretty graphics, big battles and a tv tie-in product.

I still feel RTW is a masterpiece, albeit flawed and unfinished, but one of the great games of all time and CA is one of the most original developers currently working. But the last thing I want is a massively succesful CA that produces a diverse array of games accross many platforms and sells on the strength of its brand- rather I want a company that has attention to detail, that recognises and caters for us geeks first and foremost.

Hmm, turned into a rant- been saving that up for a while. ~:cheers:

Kekvit Irae

03-06-2005, 22:42

BDC

03-06-2005, 22:46

If it was EA I would be horrified. Yeah it would look pretty but it would be crap.

Even my 11 year old brother has picked up on that entirely on his own, just playing Xbox games.

Byzantine Prince

03-06-2005, 23:20

I congratulate CA for expanding their horizons. After all, nobody boycotted Blizzard when they jumped from RTS games to MMORPGs, now did they? Dont like the idea of the game, dont buy it, but dont pressure others to not buy it.
In fact wouldn't it be kewl if there was a TW MMOROPG? It would be the best game ever!

You could be an Emperor!

Divinus Arma

03-06-2005, 23:32

EA is a great example of where compaines go wrong. I was a huge fan of their products when they were developing for the Sega Genesis. They could be relied upon to consistently deliver games of greater than their competitors. Then... well then they were replaced by evil coporate EA.

If any of you remember, there was a Rome strategy game EA produced 10 or fifteen tears ago called "Centurion". It was actual quite similar to RTW in many ways. You could establish protectorates, etc and eventually protectorates would assimilate into the larger body of Rome. Quite a bit of diplomacy and some interesting tactical level unit battles (which were either way to easy or impossible depending on the difficulty setting). If anybody has a Genesis laying around, I recommend hunting down a copy of this game at your local used game store.

Anyway. It's sad about EA. Let's just hope CA stays grounded.

Divinus Arma

03-06-2005, 23:37

In fact wouldn't it be kewl if there was a TW MMOROPG? It would be the best game ever!

You could be an Emperor!

Damn. That would be great. I already have trouble peeling myself away from the Comp. Managing battles would be a pain though. What happens when you are sleeping and your army in the field is attacked? The stratgey level would work, but I wonder about coordinating the tactical level.

Maybe you would have to work your way up from Centurion and coordinate with others to form larger armies... This could be good.

Where have I heard this discussion before?

Byzantine Prince

03-06-2005, 23:53

I posted something similar a little while ago. I mentioned it again because no one paid attention the first time.

Yeah and you could also be a Spartan. Can you imagine it. Getting in a phallanx formation with your buddies fighting off thousands of greeks. That would be awesome!

hrvojej

03-06-2005, 23:53

Where have I heard this discussion before?

You have wired the CA corporate phone? ~D

thyco1241

03-07-2005, 00:16

Alright now.. alot of people here seem to be living in the dark ages. Now at I am not a console fan (although i have an xbox) BUt this Boycott shit is just that.... SHIT! it is childish, like the war between nerds and jocks.

I mean come on people, HOW many of boycotted BUNGIE when they made halo for the xbox or how many of you are boycotting BLIZZARD because the next Starcraft game is for console? think about people, They are 2 great game companies that know where they belong/their true home is, not to mention that Blizzard started out on the SNES. CA are the same as Blizzard & Bungie, ok so rome was up to many peoples expectations, but hey it does happen, IMHO look at C&C generals ( yes they are 2 different games but they are classed as RTS)

Now as for this new game Spartan, i belive it will be in the same class as Dynsty Warriors on the ps2/xbox but hangon, (insert sarcasm) " I dont know what Dynsty Warriors is because I hate consoles and boycott game compaines who make games for consoles" (end sarcasm). Dynsty Warriors IS not a RTS it is and Action RPG/Beatem up ( think arcade games like the DnD games/Knights of the Round) but 3d and set in china the catch is you have shitloads of men on side to help you (witch you dont controll) and shitloads of men to kill plus there generals etc etc. That is what i supect SPARTAN: TOTAL WARRIOR will be like

lars573

03-07-2005, 00:40

How does it display the units?

Kay,

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/3672/86ab1.jpg
http://img1.exs.cx/img1/6509/25mp.jpg

The 2 screenies show Zhuge Liang casting his fireball power. This game isn't exactly realistic.

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/9099/32hc.jpg

This is Sun Quan's division engaging Zhang Liao's division in one of the naval battles in the game.

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/1091/75hr.jpg

Guan Yu's cavalry engaged with Hu Zhi's spear men

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/3530/killerchop5ir.jpg
Another of the special generals abilities, in this case duel.

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/9363/guanyu1nf.jpg
Guan Yu's cavalry manuvering outside a fortress.

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/3159/charge2na.jpg
Another special ability cavalry charge as preformed by Meng Huo's elephant brigade.

http://img1.exs.cx/img1/884/ptkessen20112screen006ssp2k211.jpg
An army of the Kingdom of Shu lined up for battle

hrvojej

03-07-2005, 00:43

What are the little numbers for? Points earned so far?

lars573

03-07-2005, 01:36

What are the little numbers for? Points earned so far?

Troops numbers, as in Sun Quan has 10571 men fighting Zhang Liao 12334 men on borad 2 junks grappled together. It's distplayed on screen at about 100:1 scale, 10000 men is represented by about 100 characters on screen at once. The little dots are the formation the troops are in, this changes to call when you gather for a charge. The bar underneath is the units morale, the lower it gets the crappier your troops will fight. Also when units are fighting like in the Sun Quan/Zhang Liao screen you take control of the general and can wade threw the melee to help out. Hacking about to keep up your men's fighting spirit.

econ21

03-07-2005, 02:27

they'll still have the PC versions but I think they might become a little bit crappier than what we have now. I remember Knights of the old republic and how great of a game the first one was. I was disappointed to learn the second one was just a lame rushed production. Apparently the company that was making it decided to abandon it for Jade Empire which is due mid april. Some other company finished up KOTR II and i've read reviews about how it isn't so fun and just seems to be put together sloppily. Hopefully, that will not happen to RTW.

Going a little off topic here, but you are missing out here. Firstly, I don't believe Obsidian "finished off" KOTOR2, the whole design was contracted out to them from the start - they just kept KOTOR's engine. Secondly, KOTOR2 is about as great as the first one, IMO. Yes, it was rushed - the ending in particular suffered - but is a fine game, from a promising company. I can't see how someone can like KOTOR1 and not KOTOR2; if there is any criticism of the sequel, it's that it is more of the same. But I for one wanted that.

Back on topic, I don't have a console but more money going to CA is a plus in my view.

SpencerH

03-07-2005, 14:51

While I whole-heartedly agree with the power of the consumer to effect change in the products they buy, a boycott of a TW console game by TW diehards is meaningless. CA knows fully well that many/most such players wouldnt buy a console version anyway. They are trying to attract a different group of consumers. IMO it wont hurt the PC game and if it generates more revenue and more interest in the genre it may help. The best we (the diehard grognard types) can hope for with regard to future TW titles is that the game includes a version for us or that less critical factors that we wish to mod are hard-coded. I dont believe that will happen however. There is simply no money in pandering to our wishes and, at the present time, it doesnt look as though CA are showing much loyalty to their long term fans of the more tactical sides of the game. On the other hand, we can always hope for a new game to emerge.

mxlm

03-08-2005, 02:42

Sure they do. Look at Interplay. They had an established market for their Fallout series and had Fallout3 under development when they chose to shut down Black Isle Studios, lay off the staff, and shelve Fallout3 mid-development so they could focus on some console project that they didn't have an established market for.

Er, yes, they had an established market. A very, very small established market. Fallout was hardly a blockbuster, though it was a damned fine RPG.

Oh, right, on topic: Yes, let's boycott the new game we know next to nothing about, have never played, and apparently never will play. All...what, thousand of us, best case? Yep, CA'll be feeling the loss of that revenue, you betcha.

Forum boycotts are, ah, less than effective ~;)