A question about Fatigue in Multiplayer

[barocca]

I was playing a friendly on Hyuga,
the map with a hill in each corner and a 'crossroads' in the middle.

It was a fine day.
I was the attacker and the defender, wisely,
set himself up on the hill in the back corner. (see image - address below)

Now that was the last hill I sent my scouts to, so I have my scouting units in the gully, near the far edge of the map.
My main body I marched along the left hand side on top of the ridge.
While the main body was resting, my opponent and I were blabbering away about nothing in particular.

He decided to push my scouts away.
I had just checked the staus of my units and most of them were now fresh to one degree or another, quite fresh, fresh or very fresh.

The attempt to push my scouts away failed,
lasted 2 or 3 minutes, and my depleted scouts were now down to about half strength and very tired.

NOW,
when i go back to check the rest of my army, the whole lot are very tired!

Units that had been fresh, have not moved, have not been under attack, have not even been able to see the skirmish are fatigued.
Why?

__image of map and positions here__ http://www.stas.net/shade571/horde/hyugaskirmish.gif


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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Magyar Khan]

yep i know it happens, for me the troops tire to fast down. but what can we do?

[barocca]

Well my point is,
the main body was rested,
they got tired marching to the ridge on the map - so i rested them until they were fresh again,
the weather was fine,
the defender attacked the scout/skirmish force,

How come the main body got fatigued?


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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Gregoshi]

Mono... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Gregoshi

[ShaiHulud]

In my experience, they wouldn't fatigue while standing in place. My guess is that between the time you last checked them and the battle they were still moving. Nothing else fits the facts.

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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks

[barocca]

WigWam,
was the main body moving?
While you came down that hill at my YariCav scout, and the YariCav spat in the face of your YariSam and frightened them away?

The main body was not moving.

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 01-16-2001).]

[Yabusama]

If you sit a unit still long enough the little buggers start to get bored. First of all they start gossiping amongst themselves, then they start drinking sake and then if left too long, they start folk dancing. The net result of this is they will become fatigued if left doing nothing, and will do so faster in bad weather.
Try it in a custom battle and just leave them to their folk dancing, check back in 10 minutes and you will see their stamnia level has dropped.

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DoragonSama Sword Master of
Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[Gregoshi]

Barocca,

I only suggested you men might have mono. I said nothing about them moving. The battle you are referring to was not one I was at.

And another thing, I don't need a hill to charge down for my men to run away. My men are all terrain kinda guys. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Gregoshi

[Che]

One thing that drives me crazy is when troops start rearranging themselves. Sometimes I spend forever getting my defense in perfect formation on a hill, then as soon as I turn around, they're all moving around! This does get them to 'tired' pretty quickly. Aren't samurai supposed to disciplined?

[theforce]

I hate that too. Is allright but then when the game starts they move where they want. Damn them.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://www.darksideshogunclan.cjb.net
Enter the Darkside...

[BakaGaijin]

I think what happened here is that your main body of troops got tired because they had to walk up that hill. Meanwhile, your scout troops travelled through that nice, flat valley. Thus, the main body troops get exhausted from climbing while the scout troops stay fresh because they've had an easy go of it.

That's the only thing I can think of.

Or maybe they all had mono. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[barocca]

The scouts moved across the ridges on the opposite side of the map from where the defender eventually was located.
The scouts then stood, down in the gully while i moved the main body up the transverse gully and then along the ridge to the location shown on the map.
The main body then rested.
While the main body rested I moved the scouts closer to the the defender.
I had just looked at the fatigue status of the main body (most fresh by now), when the defender attacked the scouts.
AFTER the skirmish involving only the scouts, and which lasted only 2 to 3 minutes I would have expected the main body to have all become fresh.
Instead, the scouts were very tired from the skirmish, and the main body - most of whom had been fresh 2 minutes earlier, were now very tired also.
They had not moved during the skirmish.
They could not see the skirmish taking place.
The weather was fine.
The skirmish lasted 2 to 3 minutes maximum.

see line of advance http://www.stas.net/shade571/horde/Hyugaskirmish2.gif

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[BakaGaijin]

Well, that IS odd.

Perhaps the lack of oxygen high up on the hill caused your men to tire. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Puzz3D]

I've observed this 'fatigue while standing' twice; once in a campaign battle and once in a custom battle.

The first time was with units standing around in the rain at a bridge assault waiting their turn to attack. The units had not engaged yet, but some of them got down to 'quite tired' IIRC.

The second time was on the side of a hill in winter waiting to recover stamina after trudging a long distance through the snow. Some units were 'very tired' when they first got to the hill, and they did start to recover. However, units that had been in better shape to begin with, although improving at first, started getting worse before the 'very tired' units had fully recovered. I had accelerated the game speed so a long time passed before I noticed the effect.

I thought the poor weather conditions might be causing the fatigue, but barocca got the effect in good weather. The units have to be standing for quite a long time for this to happen, but I'm sure it does happen. I think custom battle mode could be used to run some tests.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Vanya]

Try standing at attention/in formation for a long period of time, and you find yourself getting rigid and sore. Perhaps that is what is happenning to these chaps...?

Give them some Flexall or B... nah... Flexall will do fine.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[barocca]

oh dear, hadn't thought about lack of oxygen,

that'd do it alright.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

maybe they were all scared of heights?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 01-18-2001).]

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 01-23-2001).]

[Moriboy]

I think this is just one of those annoying bugs in the game. I havn't played on line yet but I've noticed it happen on several occasions right at the outset and just as I'm placing troops for defense. It's a little disconcerting to start a battle with several of your units "very tired" before the action starts. The problem doesn't seem unit dependant either. Happy hunting!

[FearedSangsara]

I have noticed the fatigue thing before, usually happens to me when my troops are standing around, waiting to cross a bridge.

However, the problem with troops moving when you dont tell them to is simple. You cannot have troop units touching other troop units. for example, if you have a unit of 60 YS, and they are standing "on top of" a unit of 60 SA, one of the units, if not both, will move when you start the battle. How do you solve this? dont let your units touch unless they are in actual battle.


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.....F..E..A..R..F..U..L.........FearedSangsara..........W..A..Y..S.....
http://www.pacificcoast.net/~mudhoney/anigifs/bloodlin.gif

[Puzz3D]

Well, I ran a little test in custom battle with two YS units once in the rain and once in fine weather. The result was the same in both cases.

One YS I left standing on flat ground. The other YS I marched back and forth until it became 'very tired', and then I let it stand. The very tired unit recovered to 'quite tired', but got no better than that. The 'fresh' unit very gradually deteriorated to 'quite tired', and stayed at that level.

So, that's it. If you stand around long enough everyone is going to be quite tired. It could have some implications when you have to march a long distance to get into attack position. If most of your troops are very tired then wait until you recover to 'quite tired'. If you wait long enough, then all the defenders will be 'quite tired' as well.

I believe the rate at which a unit tires while standing may depened on the unit type, but I haven't tested this.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[ShadowKill]

yeah i do remember being said that if you sit for to long you men will become fatiuged i think that swhat it said

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Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

"Cutting down the enemy is the Way of strategy, and there is no need for much clever refinement of it"

"After a great fight between two mighty tigers, even a common dog may defeat the survivor"

Clan Shades
Shades (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)