Developing your generals

[Kralizec]

In my games I usually have very low grade kings and only a few good generals that I let do all the fighting. It seems to me that raising uber princes is the best way to get good generals and governors. So I've got a few questions about getting good generals & governors (heirs in particular)

1. for a governor to get the steward or builder virtues, does he have to be in his province when you build stuff?

2. does building certain buildings give your governor specific vices/virtues?

3. can your heirs get steward and builder virtues by being in provinces when something is built?

4. for getting virtues like specialist attacker and defender, do I just have to win battles with few losses on my side?

5. are there ways to improve your general's accumen, other then titles?

6. are the command stars of your maturing heirs determined by your ruler's influence or by his own command stars? What else effects this?

7. if your first heir is inferior to those who come after him, what is the best way of "disposing" of him?

[Procrustes]

Hi,

I'll give 'em a shot....

1. I believe he has to be in the province to get the steward virtue, but not the builder virtue. I may be wrong here, though.

2. Not really, but certain buildings can give you a title you can give to one of your govs. Also, certain buildings like churches will improve the moral of all units built in that province. Some VnV's are random - assigned by the computer at the end of your turn - others are triggered by an event.

3. I believe that those virtues get dropped on whomever is the commanding general in the stack, so if your heir is the top of a stack with a gov in it, the heir will pick up the virtues/vices meant for that gov.

4. I believe that for the specialist attacker/defender you have to win battles where you have less than half the troops of the other side.

5. Kings with more stars have heirs with more stars. Also, marrying princesses from other factions will supposedly help prevent your heirs from getting the different incest vices (too many toes, etc.), but that's been the subject of debate at times.

6. Well, if you really want to get rid of him you could just send him off with few troops on some bloody battle some place - probably the most sure way. (Sometimes he'll keep winning anyways - next thing you know you have a retarded uber-general.)

HTH some, looking forward to other players comments.

P.

[ichi]

1. for a governor to get the steward or builder virtues, does he have to be in his province when you build stuff?

No, guvs don't have to stay at home. But, if a guv is in a stack with a higher ranking general then the higher ranking guy will get the V&Vs

2. does building certain buildings give your governor specific vices/virtues?

There is a relationship, but it seems somewhat random. So if you build lots of farm upgrades and nice buildings you guv gets good steward and builder Virtues.

3. can your heirs get steward and builder virtues by being in provinces when something is built?

I don't think so, but Procrustes is right about the heirs getting V&Vs if they are leading the stack the guv is in.

4. for getting virtues like specialist attacker and defender, do I just have to win battles with few losses on my side?

Skilled defender or attacker virtues come from attacking or defending with fewer men than you face, less than 1/2 makes it quite likely.

5. are there ways to improve your general's accumen, other then titles?

not that I know of

6. are the command stars of your maturing heirs determined by your ruler's influence or by his own command stars? What else effects this?


There seems ot be a relationship between the King's cmmand rating and the heirs, but it still varies widely. Fight with your heirs in command and the rating will improve

7. if your first heir is inferior to those who come after him, what is the best way of "disposing" of him?x

Assassinate or send him across a bridge against 2000 enemies.

ichi :bow:

[Kralizec]

Thanks guys! I think that things are going to get a lot easier with this knowledge ~:)

[2faced]

Be careful w/ ichi's last suggestion. He might end up winning.. :dizzy2:

[Kralizec]

Damn I'm pissed.

I started a campaign with Byz, early, hard level. One huge advantage is that their first monarch has already 7 stars (I think), giving them a good start. My tactic here was to use the emperor in almost every major engagement I faced, giving him some really good virtues (like skilled last stand one time). Everything went well, until my last 8-star emperor, expert attacker and skilled last stander spawned 2 heirs,both with 0 (zero) stars. Had there been other heirs starting to mature I'd just have shipped the two over to scotland to fight a doomed battle against rebels, but there weren't- most of my emperors seem to have had some sort of potency problem :embarassed:
Plus the guy was getting kind of old, 52 I think so his 2 worthless sons were the only hope for the family line.

Angrily, I quit the game and deleted all saves. I think that next campaign I'll settle for the 60% victory anyway because once you pass that point it gets really drawn out and boring.

[Ironside]

Germaanse Strijder

There's a bug that makes 10 star-sons count as zero so that explains your bad hiers.
Usually you can recover that in 2-3 generations, thanks to high influence and good remaining stats.

[Mablung]

A piece that I wrote a while ago on getting decent stats for heirs and rulers, taken from the .com FAQ:

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Q: How do I get a decent king?

A: The best way is to selectively breed. This is when the best suited heir is chosen to become the king. You may be thinking “how?!” - well kill the ones ahead of him! The easiest way to do this is to send the heir/heirs in question on suicide missions to rebel or enemy provinces. Sent them to ones without one of your provinces adjacent, once moved, break the shipping line. If the heir runs he will be ransomed, just don’t accept it! There are other ways - using Inquisitors, Assassins etc.

The next step to improving the bloodlines is to improve influence. There are several ways to do this - completing a crusade or jihad, taking provinces, defending provinces successfully when attacked (in game events can change influence as well, it is also thought that if you receive a message stating you are the richest, most powerful, have the most loyal subjects or have developed new technology this enhances influence - this isn’t confirmed). Once influence is high (7 - 9) heirs will have stats similar to the current kings - generally better.

Command: Command is the easiest stat to increase. Capture a new province, keep no troops in it and let it rebel (not advisable to do this with provinces you intend to keep). Since there are no troops the rebellion will be small and likely to have bad troops. Simply send your king and his bodyguard in to kill the rebels by himself. After a few battles the king should get the “Skilled defender” line of virtues - each adding +1 star when defending. Often it is easier to do this with the heir you intend to have on the throne next.

Piety: To improve piety you can complete crusades or jihads, leave your ruler in a high zeal province (higher chance of getting piety increasing virtues), build religious buildings (cathedrals, churches, reliquaries, mosques etc.). The other method, possibly the easiest, is to have an Inquisitor try your king (can only be done with Catholics). I personally don’t like this as you lose dread and there is a chance your king could pick up the “Atheist” vice (-8 piety). If using this method it is best to try your king with normal Inquisitors, they fail 99.999% of the time.

Dread: Dread is another easy stat to increase. Using the same technique as command, during a battle execute some prisoners but make sure to take some afterwards (if fighting rebels). By executing prisoners the general in command receives the “Scant mercy” line of vices (don’t do this too many times, it can lead to -morale vices). After the battle a parchment will pop up asking what to do with the rebels captured, execute them to increase dread (be careful not to do this too many times, it can cause your king to get - happiness vices).

Acumen: Acumen is the hardest stat to increase. Only luck and selective breeding will help here. You can only chose to have the heir with the most acumen become king. The virtues that increase acumen are random - apart from breeding programs just cross your fingers!

This should help get you a decent king with great stats!
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Hope that helps ~:)

[Ironside]

Acumen: Acumen is the hardest stat to increase. Only luck and selective breeding will help here. You can only chose to have the heir with the most acumen become king. The virtues that increase acumen are random - apart from breeding programs just cross your fingers!

One failed assissin attemt line gives an improvement of accuman (and one line decreases it, so reloading might be required) with a maximun of 2. 0-star assassins and atleast a few star hiers or kings are recommended.

[Mablung]

Yeah, I prefer not to use agents to increase stats, makes the game a little to easy IMO. An assassin can also add valour with one of the paths.

Doesn't the acumen increasing trait decrease hit points?

[Ironside]

Yeah, I prefer not to use agents to increase stats, makes the game a little to easy IMO. An assassin can also add valour with one of the paths.

Doesn't the acumen increasing trait decrease hit points?

Yes, but I usually don't send out my princes into war after doing this. And the valour line reduces accuman, I hate that line. The dread increasing one is good though, although dread is easy to get.

[Mablung]

I don't mind if a Jedi gets or a random unit that is not a governor - quite handy ~;p

Same sort of thing with pride, only pisses me off when it hits decent generals and governors. Nice boost for my troopers.

[Biggus Diccus]

How can I get the trader line of virtues for my governors? Is is possible to farm them (like steward - building farms). I have tested with mines and trader buildings, but no success.

[Mablung]

You have to build about 6 or 7 mines for the governor - you have to keep demolishing them.

[Biggus Diccus]

Thanks for the info! It will take forever to get magnificent trader, then. I'll locate a province with a salt resource to develop governors in main trade provinces.

[Patron]

1. for a governor to get the steward or builder virtues, does he have to be in his province when you build stuff?

Nope. The steward virtue is hard to get, you can only build farms 4 times. Maybe burning down 20% farms and rebuilding over and over will improve the steward virtues or stripping him of his titles and giving him another title in a province who's farms you are going to develop will do this.


2. does building certain buildings give your governor specific vices/virtues?

Only the buildings that generate titles, like the cathedral which gives the archbishop of canterbury.


3. can your heirs get steward and builder virtues by being in provinces when something is built?

no


4. for getting virtues like specialist attacker and defender, do I just have to win battles with few losses on my side?

I think it compares the kill:losses ratio with the average amount it would calculate if you don't control the battle personally. So if you have a 1:1 kill ratio and you had an army of peasants vs knights, then your general would gain some command skill or gain a virtue.


5. are there ways to improve your general's accumen, other then titles?

Don't know, probably not. Though units who's generals have had the title for a long time and have a +1 acumen like eloquence gradually get improved to the virtue where it says court jester come to him for advice and gets a +3 acumen bonus.


6. are the command stars of your maturing heirs determined by your ruler's influence or by his own command stars? What else effects this?

I think so.


7. if your first heir is inferior to those who come after him, what is the best way of "disposing" of him?

Just hurl him by himself at some giant or elite enemy army and don't pay his ransom. Be sure to transfer his retinue to another unit of royal knights or ghulams first.

[Kralizec]

I think it compares the kill:losses ratio with the average amount it would calculate if you don't control the battle personally. So if you have a 1:1 kill ratio and you had an army of peasants vs knights, then your general would gain some command skill or gain a virtue.

Yes, this is my experience too. Defeating a few peasants with only your generals kataphracts won't earn you anything. I do frequently get specialist traits though when I manage to quickly rout the enemy and get an 10:1 kill ratio.

Also, my favourite way of getting rid of heirs is this. Hire some merc units, tag them along with your heir and attack a province whilst making sure you outnumber the enemy there so to garantue victory here.
The next year move them further away from your empire into another enemy province. You will lose the first conquered province and gain an "island" province in enemy territory. Keep attacking through enemy territory while making sure he's never in a province that borders your empire. I tend to autocalc all the time because I have no intention of keeping the heir or the mercs, but suit yourself. Eventually he'll lose and you'll get the option of ransoming him back, since he can't flee back to your empire! Refuse the ransom and the next in line will become your crown prince.

[Mablung]

1. for a governor to get the steward or builder virtues, does he have to be in his province when you build stuff?

Nope. The steward virtue is hard to get, you can only build farms 4 times. Maybe burning down 20% farms and rebuilding over and over will improve the steward virtues or stripping him of his titles and giving him another title in a province who's farms you are going to develop will do this.

It is 2 farms per level of Virtue, not too difficult.



3. can your heirs get steward and builder virtues by being in provinces when something is built?

no

The heirs can get these Virtues if they are the stack leader in a province without a governor, I have had this happen.




5. are there ways to improve your general's accumen, other then titles?

Don't know, probably not. Though units who's generals have had the title for a long time and have a +1 acumen like eloquence gradually get improved to the virtue where it says court jester come to him for advice and gets a +3 acumen bonus.

There are some in game events that can boost acumen, there is the Turkish on where all governors gain one extra point of acumen, the Count Of Champagne one where the governor gains the acumen points.



6. are the command stars of your maturing heirs determined by your ruler's influence or by his own command stars? What else effects this?

I think so.

If your ruler has full influence his sons will generally be the same command as him or higher. The fluctation is generally +/- 2. The ideal king needs to be at 7, any higher and you run the risk of getting the wrap-around bug, the son is born as a 10 star which the game does not register so he is a 0 star general (usually with high valour).



7. if your first heir is inferior to those who come after him, what is the best way of "disposing" of him?

Just hurl him by himself at some giant or elite enemy army and don't pay his ransom. Be sure to transfer his retinue to another unit of royal knights or ghulams first.

The best way to kill of useless heirs is to get them to attack an island then break the ship chain, this way they can't escape and either die or get ransomed (which you then refuse). Of course they occasionally succeed and actually end up getting decent stats and you can keep them.

The other way is to use an assassin, to depose a crap heir a 6 star assassin will do fairly well. Just keep training them on a unit of peasants, you will get their eventually.