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player1
03-12-2005, 21:27
BUG-FIXER, an unofficial patch for Rome: Total War
Version 1.64
Compiled by player1

Requires:
Official v1.2 patch for Rome: Total War


Introduction:

This is compilation of fixes to various bugs that can be found in Rome: Total War. Most of the fixes were not my idea, but ideas of many members form gaming community. I just compiled them in one unofficial patch. Since unofficial, it is in no way associated with Creative Assembly or Activision.

Download from this (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/lm/Bugfixer/bug_fixer1_64.zip) link.


Installation:

The content of the zip file should be extracted to your Rome - Total War folder. That way it will replace some of the original text files with those from the archive.

Files replaced are:
-descr_formations_ai.txt (from Data subfolder)
-descr_model_battle.txt (from Data subfolder)
-descr_mount.txt (from Data subfolder)
-export_descr_ancillaries.txt (from Data subfolder)
-export_descr_buildings.txt (from Data subfolder)
-export_descr_character_traits.txt (from Data subfolder)
-export_descr_unit.txt (from Data subfolder)
-export_units.txt (from Data\text subfolder)
-export_VnVs.txt (from Data\text subfolder)
-descr_mercenaries.txt (from Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign folder)

While new files that don't replace anything are:
-greek_archer_merc_sprite_new.spr (Data\sprites subfolder)
-greek_archer_merc_sprite_new_000.tga.dds (Data\sprites subfolder)
-carthaginian_onagers_info.tga (Data\ui\unit_info\spain subfolder)

Also, a new subfolder named Original Data will be created, with copies of original files. If you want to restore original files just copy these files over those installed in Data folder. This is important for multiplayer, since it requires original files (to prevent hacking).



List of fixes


Changes in export_descr_buildings.txt file:

-Fixed the issue with Praetorian Cohorts being available before Marius reforms
-Fixed the issue with Seleucids Armored Elephants being available in provinces without elephant resource
-Fixed the bug when Thracians could not recruit Phalanx Pikemen with their higher level barracks
-Fixed the bug when Gauls could recruit Naked Fanatics in farming shrines (and Gauls don't have farming shrines)
-Added ability for Spain to recruit Long Shield Cavalry and build Onagers in the campaign, because they could already use them in custom battles (and added unit info picture for Onagers since it was missing)
-Law bonus for Leadership Pantheon increased from 10% to 25%, in order to fix the problem with Athena and Jupiter Awesome Temples getting their law bonus lowered after upgrade to Pantheon
-Holding games in arena type buildings limited to Romans only, to prevent "THIS GAMES HELD TEXT SHOULD NEVER APPEAR ON SCREEN AND SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLATED!" message appearing when other factions try to hold games in conquered roman territories


Changes in export_descr_unit.txt file:

-Fixed the issue with all horse/camel/chariot archers, when they are unable to fire while skirmishing
-Fixed the issue with Pontus and Scythian generals, when they would never get their bodyguards upgraded after Marius reforms (as it happens with all other bodyguard units)
-Removed Wedge ability from both Thracian bodyguard units (made no sense for general's unit)
-Late Thracian bodyguard unit gets its armor rating increased from 3 to 6, so it would actually have different stats then early bodyguard, especially considering that it already uses heavier armored unit model
-Removed shield bonus from early Thracian bodyguards and Bedouin Archers, since those units have no shields
-Added shield bonus of 4 to late Pontic bodyguards, since their unit models have shield
-Pontic Phalanx Pikemen get its unit size increased from 40 to 60 and shield bonus reduced from 5 to 2, in order to make them consistent with other phalanx units
-Fixed inconsistencies in mass ratings for following units: Bastarnae Mercenaries, Silver Shield Legionaries, Scutarii and Bull Warriors
-Fixed inconsistencies with effects on mounts for Armenian Heavy Spearmen and Illyrian and Sarmatian mercenaries
-Removed "annoying" blue officer from rebel Archer Warband
-Sound of "armor" for Desert Axemen and Bastarnae Mercenaries changed from metal to flesh, since they wear no armor


Changes in export_units.txt file:

-Removed reference to shield from early Thracian and late Scythian bodyguards descriptions
-Reference to "good quality armour" from Desert Axemen custom battle description changed to "wooden shields" (probably leftover from pre-patch time when desert axemen has armor value of 11)
-Reference to "leather armour" from late Thracian bodyguard changed to "mail armour", to match up unit skins


Changes in both descr_model_battle.txt and descr_mount.txt files (with some references in export_descr_unit.txt too):

-Fixed color of sprites for following mercenary units and their mounts: Thracian Mercenaries, Bastarnae Mercenaries, Sarmatian Mercenaries, Scythian Mercenaries, Spanish Mercenaries, Numidian Mercenaries, Arab Cavalry, Bedouin Warriors, Bedouin Archers and Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries


Changes in descr_model_battle.txt file only:

-Fixed the wrong color of Spanish generals (should be brown, instead of blue)
-Fixed the problem with sprites not being generated for following units: Libyan Spearmen, Poeni Infantry, Spartans, Egyptian Slingers, Egyptian Siege Crew, Gallic Swordsmen and German Skirmisher Warband
-Fixed sprites for Cretan Archers, so they won't be half-sized anymore (new sprites included)


Changes in descr_mercenaries.txt file:

-Fixed the typo which prevented mercenary Horse Archers to appear in Armenia area
-Changed price of Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries that are recruited in Gaul from 450 to 800, since it was too low, and to make it in line with prices in other regions


Changes in descr_formations_ai.txt file:

-Fixed a problem when standard AI formation would not get used for armies consisting of only non-phalanx spearmen infantry
-Fixed problem with roman formation when general would be put at flanks (added separate general block at back)
-Made possible for armies with only Hastati infantry to use roman formation, by making 3rd line of infantry not mandatory
-Fixed problem with formation for large missile cavalry groups, when general unit would be at flank overlapping with infantry
-Fixed an error in AI single line formation when artillery units would overlap with rest on the units


Changes in export_descr_ancillaries.txt file:

-Fixed the issue with Numidian and Spanish governors not gaining priests as their retinue members
-Fixed the trigger for priest of Neptune, so it won't be awarded to governors or agents
-Made Druid retinue members available in justice shrines (Esus) instead of battle shrines (Hebeleyzis), so that Gauls could get them and not Dacians
-Triggers for Civilized Slave, Drinking Companion and Master Embalmer retinue members changed, so they won't be available only in cities with one specific building (forum/temple), but also in cities were such building is upgraded (ex. great forum/large temple)
-Fixed an error in trigger for gaining Polybius as retinue member
-Fixed triggers for Foreign Dignitary and Foreign Hostage retinue members, so they will actually be awarded in foreign lands and not at home
-Fixed an error when following retinue members could become doubled: Dancer, Druid, Freeman Clerk and Judge


Changes in both export_descr_character_traits.txt and export_descr_ancillaries.txt files:

-Fixed a problem with getting infestation of Scarface generals, and several related issues (including some retinue members)
-Fixed buggy marriage triggers, which prevented characters from getting any traits or retinue members from marriage event
-Fixed a bug which prevented newly grown up characters from getting any retinue members at start, like Mentor or Tutor


Changes in both export_descr_character_traits.txt and export_VnVs.txt files:

-Berserker trait tweaked so it gives morale bonus, instead of penalty (+4 morale), making it in line with lower levels of the trait
-To prevent drop in morale bonus, highest levels of Brave and RomanHero line of traits get their morale bonuses increased from +2 to +5
-Removed bonus to popularity with people from Brave line of traits, since those traits are reserved for non-Romans only
-Energetic line of traits tweaked, so they won't get worse at higher levels
-Personal security penalty for Self-Publicist line of traits reduced from -10/-20/-30 to -1/-2/-3, since previous values were way off normal range


Change in export_VnVs.txt file only:

-In notification that assassin has gained experience, changed word "kill" to "mission", since now sabotage missions can give experience too


Changes in export_descr_character_traits.txt file only:

-Feck line of traits limited to Romans only, since two of its effects deal with senate and people popularity
-Smoothtalker changed to be diplomat trait, since its effects deal with bribing
-Added anti-traits to some traits to prevent weird or impossible combinations
-Several anti-traits that worked in one direction fixed to work in both directions
-Anti-traits for Indecisive Attacker changed from GoodCommander and GoodAttacker to GoodAttacker and GoodRiskyAttacker, so that having Indecisive Attacker trait won't prevent general from gaining Command bonuses
-Fixed a bug, when gaining an anti-trait would reset trait value to 0 (instead of reducing it for value of anti-trait)
-Fixed trigger for BadTaxman line of traits, so it won't be awarded in situations when tax policy is best as it could be
-Fixed problems with Senate Office triggers, which could result in losing some senate titles
-Tweaked trigger for gaining experience with spies when doing missions with 100% success rate, so it will be fired for spies with one or zero levels of experience, and not just for those with exact one level of experience
-Removed loyalty awards given to faction leader or heir when AI diplomat, by error, tries to bribe them, since faction leader or heir aren't supposed to be bribable
-Fixed a problem when assassins would never get any experience by doing sabotage missions
-Fixed a problem when Coward trait would only be awarded when enemy pulls out of combat without casualties
-Patched the hole in trigger for IndecisiveAttacker trait
-Removed "BattleOdds < 1.5", from triggers for BadAttacker/Defender line of traits, so it's possible to gain them, when losing battle in which enemy was highly outnumbered
-Removed crushing victory condition in triggers for GoodRiskyAttacker/Defender line of traits, since winning such battles with just clear victory is great accomplishment on its own
-Partially fixed the bug when generals fought in manual battles would get checked twice for trait awards (leading to more powerful human controlled generals)
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (mostly affects traits that need more then one point to get first level)
-Fixed a problem when characters that are not married could get Cuckold trait (by adding IsMarried condition before check)
-Tweaked triggers which reduced effects of Drink and Girls traits after marriage or getting children, so that reduction of Drink trait would work for barbarians and that reduction of Girls trait would not lead to secondary effects
-Added self-perpetuating effects to several personality traits that normally never improved after birth
-Since Mathematics, Philosophy, Natural Philosophy and Rhetoric skills could only be gained at birth, a new academy trigger was introduced to make it possible to gain levels in these skills
-Added Strategic and Tactical skills into Academy trigger, since their description heavily implies academic learning
-Made it possible, for barbarian factions, to gain Warlord line of traits in battle, and not only Britons in Andrasta temples
-Introduced several siege triggers so that SiegeAttack/Defense line of traits could be improved
-Added several new triggers, to make it possible that Intelligent and Genius characters could be born

The Stranger
03-12-2005, 23:02
seems good to me

einar
03-13-2005, 01:38
¡¡Great patch!! ~:) ~:) ~:) ~:)

hrvojej
03-13-2005, 01:51
Never mind

therother
03-13-2005, 02:00
Not exactly. This is a patch made by player1 based on those threads. I've not had time to compile a patch for community approval yet, although I imagine I'll look a fair bit like this one when I do. Perhaps people can suggest additions/modifications they'd like to see for the consensus patch here?

hrvojej
03-13-2005, 02:08
Never mind

therother
03-13-2005, 02:29
I'm sorry you feel that way, hrvojej. I offered to host any patch resulting from those threads that others wanted to make available to the community. I made that offer here. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=710142&postcount=70) player1 has chosen to avail himself of that offer, and I have done as I said that I would. I will also include this patch in the thread that contains the community consensus patch.

I fail to see what the problem could be with this arrangement.

hrvojej
03-13-2005, 02:39
Never mind

Jambo
03-13-2005, 14:46
How do you fix the blue officer from the rebel Archer Warband?

hrvojej
03-13-2005, 14:49
How do you fix the blue officer from the rebel Archer Warband?
Delete him. That is, delete the line
officer barb_warguard
for barb archer slave. Other archer warbands have no officer anyway.

player1
03-13-2005, 15:07
never mind

player1
03-13-2005, 15:10
-Removed "annoying" blue officer from rebel Archer Warband

Just delete the line with officer info.
(or outcomment it)

Jambo
03-13-2005, 15:14
Edited: found it! ~:cheers:

hrvojej
03-13-2005, 15:42
There. Whatever. I don't visit the twcenter, so I wouldn't know.
Have fun,

ps. feel free to edit the quote of my post in your previous post as well. I would have done it myself, but I can't.

player1
03-13-2005, 15:54
done...

Grand Duke Vytautas
03-14-2005, 12:05
never mind

RJV
03-14-2005, 12:43
Don't you just hate it when you come in at the end of a conversation...??

Magraev
03-14-2005, 14:33
heh yeah this thread makes absolutely no sense anymore ~;)

player1
03-14-2005, 14:37
Thread became a victim of self-moderation. ~D

Request for mods: delete all nevermind and related posts



EDIT:
Haven't see it happen, 3 moths later... ~;)

sunsmountain
03-14-2005, 15:55
I'm hesitant to trust fixes using special traits like Bug and Fix, but these seem necessary. I don't know if the values are reset between generals during the same turn, how can you be sure? Ie general 1 autocalc's, then general 2 auto-calcs. How do you know trait bug doesnt still equal 1 (or 0)?

Did you try different ways to test auto-calc?

The following things probably went wrong and at least agree with what CA decided in version 1.1. That these changed in 1.2 is strange so they can be called bugs, due to typos. I agree with these:
2. Spanish can now recruit Long Shield Cavalery.
3. Armenia has all the mercenaries they should have.
4. Praetorian infrantry can no longer be recruited before the reforms.
5. The game uses correct skin for Spanish Generals (no more blue ones!).
6. Thrace: Phalanx Pikemen no longer disappear from building list after reaching last two levels of barracks.
7. Spain can now build Onagers in Campaign, like in custom battles

This is a true bug fix:
9.Horse Archers will now behave correctly during skirmishing.

These seem to be preferences:
1. Seleucids can no longer recruit Armoured Elephants in provinces with no elephants resource.
8. Pontus' and Scythian Generals get upgraded after the reforms.
10.Raised slightly(really!) stats and custom battle cost for Thracian late general, before was identical to early. Change based on other similiar factions.

Because i dont know if they should be like that.

Problem remaining for me is the generals stats changing, exactly because the britons dont get general upgrade, though generals dont matter as much i can live with this.

As for the elephants:
A. If you get a city to level 5 (and level 5 stables), that's a big city demanding lots and lots of trade goods, including elephants, if only for the gladitorial games.
B. You could build armoured elephants in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 by CA. If they wanted to changed that, they would have. They didnt.


ps.: i've decided to use your patch, since i dont know how to fix scarred and brave otherwise. PercentageBodyguardKilled > 30 is better than GeneralHPLostRatioinBattle, the latter sucks. As i finally understand the manual battle check twice fix, the traits Bug and Fix become necessary.

ps.2: Seleucids shouldn't be able to build Armoured Elephants in regions where Carthage can not (ie without elephant resource).

Kraxis
03-14-2005, 16:14
Interesting opinion on the elephants... But that begs the question: Why do the Seleucids get the 'free' armoured elephants while Carthage does not? Since every other elephant in the game demands the resource then it is safe to assume that that is what it is supposed to be like.
This is far from the only little mistake CA has made in the game. Armenian mercenaries, gaulish naked fanatics at an odd shrine, interesting description of Desert Axemen that doesn't fit them... I could go on. These problems were present in 1.0 until now, does that make them any more right?

sunsmountain
03-14-2005, 16:30
Eeehm, no. I stand corrected (never played Carthage).
I also agree with the generals, and understood the manual battle bug checking traits twice, making traits like Bug and Fix necessary.
- But how about the double auto-calcing by different generals? Anybody sure the second general gets re-initialized values (without quitting Rome)?

Though I would now prefer Carthage to have the same 'ability' the Seleucids had.
In all honesty though, i can agree with:


This is far from the only little mistake CA has made in the game.

Similar little mistakes seemed to stay where they were. CA needs a spelling checker!
Most of these little mistakes are too small to notice during play testing.

I'm beginning to like this bug-fixer more and more. Let's keep up the good work.

since we're changing export_descr_buildings.txt:
Old bug in 1.0/1.1, CA fixed this in 1.2:

* The large Governors temple has a 10% loyalty bonus, that's an error in the game. Change it to 15% for both Pontus and Macedon.

(I didnt make a back of this so i dont know if this has been patched/file replaced in 1.2)

specifics (dont copy paste, change the values):

temple_of_governors_large_temple requires factions { pontus, macedon, }
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 3
law_bonus bonus 3
}
construction 3
cost 1600
settlement_min city
upgrades
{
temple_of_governors_awesome_temple
}
}

player1
03-14-2005, 17:27
I'm hesitant to trust fixes using special traits like Bug and Fix, but these seem necessary. I don't know if the values are reset between generals during the same turn, how can you be sure? Ie general 1 autocalc's, then general 2 auto-calcs. How do you know trait bug doesnt still equal 1 (or 0)?

It's a partial fix, as said.

In your example, after both battles, both general1 and general2 will have bugged traits.
Since in both battles, PostBattle trigger started only once (which gave them bugged trait).
If any of these generals fights another battle with autocalc, he won't get checked for traits.

When end of turn gets (and at the begging of the turn), all general get checked, and thier bugged traits reseted to 0.

If it was just one general, fighting two autocalc battles, he would have bugged trait after first (which would prevent him getting any traits with next autocalc) and after second battle righ back to 0.

Of course, you could always make testing yourself, by removing hidden atrribute from both traits, and adding some description in export_VnVs.txt (so game won't crash).



These seem to be preferences:
8. Pontus' and Scythian Generals get upgraded after the reforms.
10.Raised slightly(really!) stats and custom battle cost for Thracian late general, before was identical to early. Change based on other similiar factions.

Because i dont know if they should be like that.

Problem remaining for me is the generals stats changing, exactly because the britons dont get general upgrade, though generals dont matter as much i can live with this.

I used same motoo, as used when adding missing units for Spain. If facton can build it in Custom Battles, and is not a mercenacy, it should have it in Campaign, since that true for all other factions. Britons by the way don't have alternate general in Custom Battles.

I haven't implemented n.10 (you quoted fix-list from Borsook fix-pack), for now, since it's pretty subjective what stats should have Thracian upgraded bodyguard. Fist I though about stats of Choosen Warlord, since it uses same skins, but then in custom battles, thracian general doesn't really use same icon as Choosen Warlord (only similar).

Anyway, I'll let that question to be decided by therother, when he makes a community patch.


As for the elephants:
A. If you get a city to level 5 (and level 5 stables), that's a big city demanding lots and lots of trade goods, including elephants, if only for the gladitorial games.
B. You could build armoured elephants in version 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 by CA. If they wanted to changed that, they would have. They didnt.

If something hasn't changed with patches, it can mean:
1) it's working as inteded
2) it's doesn't work as intended, but nobody from official team detected the bug (this happens way too often, even with well know bugs in community, trust me)
3) it's doesn't work as intended, but who cares, there are more important things to fix for now (see minimalistic 1.1 patch)

Anyway, I wouldn't called it a bug, if it worked same way for Selucids and Carthaginians.



About farmer, trader: Original traits aren't really bugged. it's just easy to get bad trait (or recover from it) and difficult to get a good one (without proper temple).

Try checking the thread about Farmer, Trader in this forum (and skip early discussion, lots of wrong assumptions).

player1
03-14-2005, 17:32
New bug:

* The large Governors temple has a 10% loyalty bonus, that's an error in the game. Change it to 15% for both Pontus and Macedon.

I've checked original files with 1.2 patch, and as for as I see, this bug doesn't exist.

sunsmountain
03-14-2005, 17:55
Yep, apparently CA did correct SOME of their earlier spelling mistakes. But not all of them, and that's where this bug-fixer comes in.

As for gregub, damn i should have known (i've had enough mathematics to guess). Farmer and Trader are NOT bugged.

player1
03-16-2005, 18:21
Ok, by looking some old indexed threads, I just realised that Good/Bad Conspirator trait is a bit buggy.

Newly created spies sometimes get it. Good.
After some missions spies could get it. Good.

But, it seems that after sabotage missions assassins should get it too.

Look these lines:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents13
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition not MissionSucceeded

Affects BadConspirator 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents14
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition MissionSucceeded

Affects GoodConspirator 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents15
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition MissionSucceeded

Affects GoodConspirator 2 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents16
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition MissionSucceeded

Affects GoodConspirator 3 Chance 25

And there is a bug, since Conspirator trait is reserved for spies only, making it impossible to gain by sabotage.


So:


;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodConspirator
Characters spy
AntiTraits BadConspirator

should be changed to:


;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodConspirator
Characters all
AntiTraits BadConspirator

Same should be done to BadConspirator trait too.


I changed it to all, since I don't think it would work if I add two types of agents in Character line. Should not be a problem since no other type gets checked for Conspirator.


Also, if you look closely agents14-16 triggers you'll see that you would get unrealistic amount of experience for every mission, since all 3 traits get checked (2.75 poitns per mission, on average). Not to mention that threashold tops at 8. If we compare how all other agent traits work, it's obvious that only agents14 trigger should be used while others should be deleted or outcommented.


What do others think?

sunsmountain
03-16-2005, 20:35
Are you sure sabotage doesnt work? If it truly doesnt then i would change the original to:


;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodConspirator
Characters assassin
AntiTraits BadConspirator


because spies cannot execute sabotage missions, and i cannot find the 'all' variable being used elsewhere in the file.

As for the gain: Nobody minds a quick gain of course, but since this GoodConspirator hasnt been enabled yet, if we do, let's stick to agent trigger 14 and remove or renumber or outcomment agent trigger 15 and 16.

Ivar the Terrible
03-16-2005, 21:12
What are you talking about?

All you do is change

Trait GoodConspirator
Characters spy

to

Trait GoodConspirator
Characters assassin

Same for BadConspirator

This has been addressed in previous threads.

player1
03-16-2005, 21:36
Are you sure sabotage doesnt work? If it truly doesnt then i would change the original to:


;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodConspirator
Characters assassin
AntiTraits BadConspirator


because spies cannot execute sabotage missions, and i cannot find the 'all' variable being used elsewhere in the file.

Check HighPersonalySecurity and LaxPersonalSecuity. They use "all".

Also, several spying missions use GoodConspirator:
agents4, agents26, as well as spyinit1 trigger. I don't wnat to disable them.



As for the gain: Nobody minds a quick gain of course, but since this GoodConspirator hasnt been enabled yet, if we do, let's stick to agent trigger 14 and remove or renumber or outcomment agent trigger 15 and 16.

Agreed, that way it will be consistant with other agent missions.

player1
03-16-2005, 21:37
What are you talking about?

All you do is change

Trait GoodConspirator
Characters spy

to

Trait GoodConspirator
Characters assassin

Same for BadConspirator

This has been addressed in previous threads.

That way you'll disable few spying triggers that use GoodConspirator too.

tai4ji2x
03-17-2005, 00:45
Trigger random_birth27
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Affects BadTrader 1 Chance 2
Affects GoodConspirator 1 Chance 2


this is a trigger which seems to be for family members, but for some reason has goodconspirator, which would likely be useless for him. i assume it's harmless for a family member to get it, but it's probably best also to just comment out the last line, just to be safe.

player1
03-17-2005, 01:52
Actually, outcommenting it is not really necessary, since even if he gets one point of GoodConspirator, that would still be less then 2 points needed for 1st level of GoodConspirator.

So effectively, he'll never get the trait, even if you cahnce chaces to 100.

player1
03-17-2005, 01:56
By the way, could anyone understand what this trigger is supposed to do:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger trigger_poisoner
WhenToTest SufferAssassinationAttempt
Condition Trait Paranoia >= 2
and Trait DeceiverVirtue >= 1
and AgentType = assassin

AcquireAncillary poisoner chance 10

This doesn't seem to be working, if you ask me.


description:


;------------------------------------------
Ancillary poisoner
Image hooded_figure_ancillary.tga
ExcludeCultures barbarian
Description poisoner_desc
EffectsDescription poisoner_effects_desc
Effect Subterfuge 2

therother
03-17-2005, 02:27
It does seem a little odd. The two traits mentioned in the conditions are for family members, yet Poisoner affect subterfuge, an attribute that is unique to assassins and spies.

Have you tried assassinating a character with the traits required, and putting the chance up to 100, to see if your assassin gets the ancillary?

player1
03-17-2005, 10:00
Tried, neiter victim, nor assassin doesn't seem to get ancillary.
It's mystery what CA intended with this trait.

By the way, there is one Egypt spy that starts campaign with it. Also one of the traits required, DeceiverVirtue, is Roman only.

Weird.



Also, I've seen some interesting behaviour with agents that fail their mission. Instread of getting 1 point of anti-trait, their trait drops to 0 (exempt if already 0, when you get negative points anyway). Is that a bug, or some hard-coded balancing mechanism (to prevent super-agents)?

player1
03-17-2005, 12:13
EDIT:
Actually, I won't upload new version yet.
I need to investigate possible balance problems with introducing Conspirator trait to assassins.

player1
03-17-2005, 15:32
Ok, after some investigation I'm pretty sure that adding Conspirator to assassins is unbalanced.
There is already more then enough synergy without it to get uber-assassins, and extra possible 1-3 to Subterfuge adds a lot.

Now, my theory is that sabotage was originally planned to be spy mission, but was later move to assassins.

So, instead of GoodConspirator, successful sabotage should give GoodAssassin, since that's the trait which governs assassins experience. Also, that way, there will be no dangerous synergy that could make assassins overpowered.

I suggest only changing triggers agents13 and agents14, since having agents15 and agents16 would make sabotage better in exp gain then assassination.


In short, replace:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents13
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition not MissionSucceeded

Affects BadConspirator 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents14
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition MissionSucceeded

Affects GoodConspirator 1 Chance 100


with this:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents13
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition not MissionSucceeded

Affects BadAssassin 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents14
WhenToTest SabotageMission

Condition MissionSucceeded

Affects GoodAssassin 1 Chance 100


What do others think?

player1
03-17-2005, 16:29
Still, that could lead to loss of flavor.
Like having Murderers that didn't killed anybody

sunsmountain
03-18-2005, 00:06
Yeah i would prefer the 'all' variable being used for all agents, rather than remove Good & Bad Conspirator all together.

I dont think its too easy to create ueber-assassins, their subterfuge level is capped at 10 anyway, i think. High star generals and well protected family members will remain hard to kill...

therother
03-18-2005, 02:36
About the poisoner, and this is just a guess, but it seems to me the intent is to make a ancillary for assassins to get rid of well protected and sly Roman generals by poisoning them. So I think it's definitely intended for assassins, just that the trigger is broken. Quite how to fix it, I don't know - I guess that's a matter of choice.

player1
03-18-2005, 09:39
I think whoever wrote that trigger forgot that neither AssassinationMission nor SufferAssassinationAttempt remember both assassins and victims ID. The intent was probaby that assassin who killed (or maybe tried to kill) character with those traits should get Poisoner. Unfotunately it's impossible to implments with these triggers.

MajorFreak
04-26-2005, 19:37
i got a poisoner ancillary once. Was fairly certain (99%) that it was one of my egyptian assassins

BTW, is this "patch" compatible with the CVP (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44566)?

player1
04-26-2005, 23:31
Well, that's egyptian starting spy.
He has it.


As for CVP, I think it is.
All trait fixes I implemented are fixed in CVP too, so you won't miss anything.

player1
04-27-2005, 00:15
Version 1.1 uploaded.

SpencerH
04-27-2005, 00:46
What did you change?

MajorFreak
04-27-2005, 06:51
well, i extracted most of your fixes except for the files CVP has

unseen11
04-27-2005, 07:26
wow so you actually changed the whole Panthon of leadership bug that i mentioned?

player1
04-27-2005, 08:56
Here is the list:

-Law bonus for Leadership Pantheon increased from 10% to 25%, in order to fix the problem with Athena and Jupiter Awesome Temples getting their law bonus lowered after upgrade to Pantheon.
-Fixed the problem with sprites not being generated for following units: Libyan Spearmen, Poeni Infantry, Spartans, Egyptian Slingers, Egyptian Siege Crew, Gallic Swordsmen and German Skirmisher Warband
-Fixed the issue with Numidian governors not gaining priests as their retinue memebrs

player1
04-27-2005, 08:57
wow so you actually changed the whole Panthon of leadership bug that i mentioned?

After realising that there are no other temples with similar quirks (lowering bonus after upgrade).

MajorFreak
04-27-2005, 15:02
erm, so can i overwrite the files that CVP changed? How compatible is your's with that?

player1
04-27-2005, 15:46
If you want to keep CVP, don't overwrite its files.

You won't miss anything, since fixes I made in those files are also done in latest version of CVP.

Bhruic
05-01-2005, 05:06
You added the Spanish Onager to the archery_range, which is one level before all the other factions get them. Was that on purpose?

Bh

player1
05-01-2005, 08:46
It's same as for Dacians.

These are barbarian factions and thus don't have 4th level buildings.

Bhruic
05-01-2005, 09:11
Ah, so they don't. Makes sense, I guess.

Bh

player1
05-16-2005, 01:30
Version 1.11 uploaded.
Just small fix to Cretan Archer sprites.

player1
05-22-2005, 14:55
Some things I'll really like input of other players.

I've considered fixing values of some traits that seem like typos.


First there is and Energetic trait. A real mess.
At first level it has movment bonus of 2 (ok), which gets increased to 4 at 2nd level and drops back to 2 at 3rd level (!!!) Also at 4rd level it loses one point of management (drop from 3 to 2). Nothing in flavor text indicated any negatives about improving this trait. Also it will be common occurance since Energetic can be increased with some temples.

I guess that fourth level is supposed to give +4management. But how movement bonus is supposed to incrase I have no idea. I'm only sure it was never ment to be higher then +4 at any point.


Then there is a Berserk trait. Really easy to gain with germans if using proper temples. But nothing is descpritions explains sudden high drop in moral. Is it supposed to be +4bonus, not -4 penalty?


Then goes IanR trait. Very rare, but gives -10 personal secutiry per level. Somehow I think it is supposed to be -1 per level, since -10/-20/-30 is way to huge value (call it instant assassination).


RomanHero and Brave are interesting since they both get drop in moral at last level (from 4 to 2). Very weird considering that they have high praises in their descriptions. Maybe bonus is supposed to be 5. Also, it's weird that Brave gets bonus in popular standing since it is non-roman trait. It's interesting to point another minor thing, and that is that no non-roman or barbarian general can gain "The Great" title. Only last level of RomanHero, as well as Warlord give "The Great" title. Somehow I think that last level of Brave, should give "the great" title since brave trait is non-roman replacment of romanhero.

And there is a Feck trait that gives bonuses/penalties to popular/senate standing, but can be gained by non-romans too.


Any oppinions about these?

tai4ji2x
05-22-2005, 18:01
for energetic, i assume it's rationalized by saying the gen/gov has aged and although still lively in spirit, can never regain his physical vitality from youth

player1
05-22-2005, 18:17
For ease of reference here is flavor text for Energetic:

Lively:
This man is not one to rest on his laurels, or rest at all.
+1 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 5% discount on construction costs

Very Lively:
This man detests laziness amongst his staff, and cannot abide sloth.
+2 Management, +20% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 10% discount on construction costs

Energetic:
This man rarely stops working, even taking his meals on the move!
+3 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 15% discount on construction costs

Blessed With Vitality:
This man's "get-up-and-go" can only be a gift from the capricious Gods!
+2 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 20% discount on construction costs

unseen11
05-23-2005, 04:08
For ease of reference here is flavor text for Energetic:

Lively:
This man is not one to rest on his laurels, or rest at all.
+1 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 5% discount on construction costs

Very Lively:
This man detests laziness amongst his staff, and cannot abide sloth.
+2 Management, +20% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 10% discount on construction costs

Energetic:
This man rarely stops working, even taking his meals on the move!
+3 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 15% discount on construction costs

Blessed With Vitality:
This man's "get-up-and-go" can only be a gift from the capricious Gods!
+2 Management, +10% to Movement Points (gives armies the ability to forced march), 20% discount on construction costs

Hmmm this doesn't make much sense does it. I think the traits should be changed. The Lively trait should probably only give +5% to movement points.
Very Lively should give +10% movement points. Energetic should give 15% movement points and Blessed with Vitality should give +20% movement points

Now I say to change the stats to the ones I've just mentioned because if you look at the constuction cost reduction bonus it only goes up by 5s, which is what I think CA intended movement points to do as well.

Also I think you should make Blessed With Vitality give +4 management.

player1
05-23-2005, 05:54
It would be good to point out that no other trait at first level gives just 5% bonus to movement (including lively).

Although traits that give movment usually have 3 levels so it's 10/15/20.



P.S.
Anyway, I'm pretty much concerened about Berserk, and changing heavy penalty (-4 morale) to a heavy bonus (+4 morale). You just need 3 points to get to last level (1/2/3), so it's either heavy penalty quickly or heavy bonus quickly.

player1
05-23-2005, 07:41
Ok, here is update of things I'll probably do.

First, this one I haven't listed before, but it seems that if General gets Senate Office for second time he'll lose all of its benefits. The problem is with "FirstTime" triggers, since they get triggered even second time, making a mess.


About Energetic trait.
I decided to leave first two levels as they are (+2/+4 movement), since I don't want to alter game dynamics, considering that some leaders start with these traits, and reducing them would change start of the game.

So I'll probably just up 3rd and 4th level with +4movment, just so that benefits won't get lost.

Also, forth level will give +4 management so it won't feel as disadvantage.


As for Berserk trait its last level will give bonus morale instead of penalty. Obviosuly this is boost for germans, thracian and dacian factions, since they have temples that increase this trait. But as I said nothing in descirption makes it feel it should get penalty.


As for IanR trait, I probably would not bother, since it is very rare thing to get first level of trait (rolling 8% two times after adopting brothers), with other levels almost impossible.


For RomanHero and Brave, I'll increase last level moral bonus to +5, since nowhere it explains why would they lose bonus instead.

I would not "play" with titles (the brave, the great), since I think it's more in the realm of moding and personal preference.

I won't bother with popularstanding with Brave, since who knows, maybe romans bribe Brave general.

And considering that Coward trait has negative to popular standing, being available to everyone, I won't bother changing or limiting Feck trait.


Speak now, if you disagree or think there is some better option.


EDIT:
Edited...

unseen11
05-23-2005, 07:54
Well you do what you want with the Lively trait, at least you upgraded the last level to +4 management

The changes your going to make to the beserk trait seem good

I don't know what the IandR trait is so no comment

No complaints against Roman hero and brave trait change

I suppose it's a good idea to remove popular standing with brave since it should only apply to Romans

However I'm not so sure about Feck, is it possible to make a Feck that applies only to Romans and a Feck that applies to other factions? because for other factions you could make it that Feck raises morale for troops yet decreases Influence (like +1 morale -1 influence) so it's a mixed blessing

player1
05-23-2005, 08:03
UPDATE:

Actaully, when I think about it, I think I won't bother with "popularstanding" thing, when I relized that even Coward trait has popularstanding penalty, and you can't really limit that to romans.

So, changes to Brave in regrards to popular standing as well as limiting Feck will NOT happen.

And who knows, romans can bribe brave general, so bonus to popularty has meaning.

player1
05-23-2005, 08:13
However I'm not so sure about Feck, is it possible to make a Feck that applies only to Romans and a Feck that applies to other factions? because for other factions you could make it that Feck raises morale for troops yet decreases Influence (like +1 morale -1 influence) so it's a mixed blessing

Its possible, but that would lead to making vanilla 1.2 patch saved games incompatible with this bug-fixer, and that's something I don't want to do.

Anyway I dropped whole Feck issue.

My motto is:
If you are not sure about changing something then don't.

player1
05-23-2005, 08:50
To sum up plans for next version:

-Fixing senate office triggers
-increasing 3rd and 4th level of Energetit trait movment bonus to 20% (was 10%)
-increasing 4th level of Energetit trait management bonus to +4 (was +2)
-chaning Berserker morale penalty to bonus (from -4 to +4 to morale)
-increasing last level RomanHero and Brave bonuses to +5 (was +2)
-chaning IanR personal security penalities to -1/-2/-3 (was -10/-20/-30)


P.S.
I decided to fix IanR, when I realised that -10 to securty is more then enough for novice assassin to do succesful hit.

player1
05-23-2005, 10:23
New things I found, that will be fixed:

Drinking Companion ancillary should be attainable in fun temples and avobe, and not just fun temples (">= temple_of_fun_temple" instead of "=").

Similary, Master Embalmer should be attainable in healing temples and above, and not just healing temples (">= temple_of_healing_temple" instead of "=").

Similary, Civilized Slave should be attainable in forum and above, and not just in forum (">= forum" instead of "=").


Also, Polybius trigger needs to be reworked, since this...


Trigger trigger_polybius_of_megalopolis
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition EndedInSettlement
and SettlementBuildingExists = scriptorium
and SettlementBuildingExists = academy
and FactionType romans_scipii
and IsGeneral
and I_TurnNumber >= 180
and I_TurnNumber < = 304

AcquireAncillary polybius_of_megalopolis chance 80
...is never true.


Changing to...


and SettlementBuildingExists < = scriptorium
and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy
...would do the trick.

player1
05-23-2005, 19:41
Version 1.2 uploaded.

New in this version:
-Triggers for Civilized Slave, Drinking Companion and Master Embalmer retinue members changed, so they won't be available only in cities with one specific building (forum/temple), but also in cities were such building is upgraded (ex. great forum/large temple)
-Fixed an error in trigger for gaining Polybius as retinue member
-Berserker trait tweaked so it gives morale bonus, instead of penalty (+4 morale), making it in line with lower levels of the trait
-To prevent drop in morale bonus, highest levels of Brave and RomanHero line of traits get their morale bonuses increased from +2 to +5
-Energetic line of traits tweaked, so they won't get worse at higher levels
-Feck line of traits limited to Romans only, since two of its effects deal with senate and people popularity
-Personal security penalty for Self-Publicist line of traits reduced from -10/-20/-30 to -1/-2/-3, since previous values were way off normal range
-Fixed problems with Senate Office triggers, which could result in losing some traits

SpencerH
05-24-2005, 01:12
CA should be paying you. Thanks for all the work ~:)

player1
05-24-2005, 07:36
Expect next update to be big.
I finally reverengineered some unit prices, especialy how much is cavalry shield worth.

SpencerH
05-24-2005, 12:09
I'd like to see the "Zones Of Recruitment" idea included in the next one ~D.

player1
05-24-2005, 18:17
I'd like to see the "Zones Of Recruitment" idea included in the next one ~D.

Ugh...
I doubt, is it proper to add it to a simple bug fix mod.

SpencerH
05-25-2005, 12:16
Probably not, but it would mean that I dont have to search around to find what needs to be mod-ed. ~;)

Emren
05-25-2005, 12:20
Are the Bug-Fixer and CVP compatible? Do they fix the same issues the same way, or how does this work?

player1
05-25-2005, 18:01
Most trait fixes done in bug-fixer, are done in CVP in one way or another, so it's pretty safe to use CVP files over bugfixer files.

player1
05-25-2005, 18:13
Probably not, but it would mean that I dont have to search around to find what needs to be mod-ed. ~;)

Using file compare (fc) from command prompt is a good way to see what exactly changes are done compared to original 1.2 rules. That gives you base to more easily intergrate ZOR mod.

player1
05-25-2005, 19:24
Version 1.3 uploaded.
(two versions in 3 days ~;) )

New in this version:

-Removed Wedge ability from both Thracian bodyguard units (made no sense for general's unit)
-Late Thracian bodyguard unit gets its armor rating increased from 3 to 6, so it would actually have different stats then early bodyguard, especially considering that it already uses heavier armored unit model
-Removed shield bonus from early Thracian bodyguards and Bedouin Archers, since those units have no shields
-Added shield bonus of 4 to late Pontic bodyguards, since their unit models have shield
-Removed reference to shield from early Thracian and late Scythian bodyguards descriptions
-Removed reference to "good quality armour" from Desert Axemen custom battle description (probably leftover from pre-patch time when desert axemen has armor value of 11)
-Fixed inconsistencies in mass ratings for following units: Bastarnae Mercenaries, Silver Shield Legionaries, Scutarii and Bull Warriors
-Removed bonus to popularity with people from Brave line of traits, since those traits are reserved for non-romans only.

Ice
05-25-2005, 21:17
bravo, excellent work

Oracle
05-28-2005, 10:18
Here are few more things too look in to (for future patch) -
Trait intelligent there is absolutly no way to gain it beyond first level. But in campaign you can see characters with second level of this trait? possibly even third. So it look like developers forgot to add such thing like:
Trigger random_birthNN
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait Intelligent > = 1

Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 50

etc.

Same thing applies to other skills like NaturalPhilosophySkill, MathematicsSkill, PhilosophySkill and other simillar skills.

player1
05-28-2005, 10:35
You are so right.

Most other inborn-only traits 50% chance to get 1 extra point, and then another 50% for next extra point, etc...

player1
05-28-2005, 10:46
Although as far as I see only Intelligent trait needs to be inborn with higher levels. For those others (that are skills), it seams that triggers on some other places are missing.

player1
05-28-2005, 10:53
Although, when I think about it, I bet that Intelligent is supposed to fuction similar as Inbred line of traits (depending from your father).

vastator
05-28-2005, 11:04
I've just installed v1.3 and I'm really looking forward to using it, along with Darth Vader's formation mod and a few unit tweaks of my own. Thanks for all the hard work - most of what you did would have left me thinking "Wha?" :dizzy2:

Oracle
05-28-2005, 12:35
Although as far as I see only Intelligent trait needs to be inborn with higher levels. For those others (that are skills), it seams that triggers on some other places are missing.
Indeed, here is my idea for skills

Trigger selfperpetuating49
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition Trait MathematicsSkill > = 1

Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 4

You can look at PoeticSkill in original file, for some weird reason (I suspect this reason is called forgetfullness) PoeticSkill can be increased unlike others simillar skills.
Btw there is clear error with PoeticSkill, it's available to only greeks. In skill description they exclude only barbarians (which seems logical) but during birth such skill is only accessible for greeks, moreover greeks have 2 chances to increase this skill:
Trigger random_birth37
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition CultureType greek

Affects Arse 1 Chance 4
Affects PhilosophySkill 1 Chance 8
Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 4
Affects PoeticSkill 1 Chance 6
Affects PoeticSkill 1 Chance 4
I suspect that Affects PoeticSkill 1 Chance 4 shold be moved from greeks section to generic trigger.
One more odditie in Skills now it's NaturalPhilosophySkill. Eastern excluded in skill description but they clearly intended to gain this skill, look at the Trigger random_birth39.
As for idea to treat Intelligence simmilar to Inbred I have to disagree, probably Handsome/Ugly will be a better example for parents influence :) The only bad thing is since there is no antitrait to intelligent, there will be to many smart peoples for my liking. So I think it's better to stick to only such traits like:
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait Intelligent > = 1/2/3

Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 50

player1
05-28-2005, 13:49
Selfperpetuating is interesting idea, advancing some of those skills.


As for poetics, maybe developers wanted poetic skill to be greek only? For example, poet retinue memebers are only available in odeons.
And some generals can get being good poets from the beggining (that's why 2 there are two lines).

For NaturalPhilosophy, similar retinue member is also excluded from eastern cultures, so I get having them in trigger is probably an error (and harmless one).


For intelligence, I agree that getting them inherited could just be too much. But something like NaturalMilitaryTalent trait could be interesting.


Trigger dads_NaturalMilitaryTalent
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition FatherTrait NaturalMilitarySkill >= 1

Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 30

Only first level is gained this way. Other levels need:


Trigger random_birth43
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait NaturalMilitarySkill >= 1

Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth44
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait NaturalMilitarySkill >= 2

Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth45
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait NaturalMilitarySkill >= 3

Affects NaturalMilitarySkill 1 Chance 50

Oracle
05-28-2005, 14:29
I'm not sure about greek poets and eastern phylosophers.
As for intellegence trait, NaturalMilitarySkill is a good example, that's how intelligence should be implemented.

player1
05-28-2005, 21:27
Ok, I would surely add something like this:

Trigger random_birthNN
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait Intelligent > = 1

Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 50

As for "dad_intelligent", I'm thinking, maybe it was omitted deliveratly, since raw intelligence isn't always inherited to kids. Some talents as well as level of education is, but I'm not sure about raw intelligence that intelligent trait represents.

Anyway, it's interesting that philosopher and mathematicam retinue members can be gained at academy, so maybe they should trigger similar character traits. It's similar to rethoricans and natural philosopher at lundus magnus (did I spelled this well?).

player1
05-28-2005, 23:20
Ok, here are my current proposals (all new triggers):


;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth57
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait Intelligent >= 1

Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger random_birth58
WhenToTest CharacterComesOfAge

Condition Trait Intelligent >= 2

Affects Intelligent 1 Chance 50

and:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger academy_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy

Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 5
Affects PhilosophySkill 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus

Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill 1 Chance 10
Affects RhetoricSkill 1 Chance 10


New random bith triggers add possibilty of expetionaly intelligent generals to be born, while academy triggers give ability to improve some of the skills that coul not be improved in other way.

Percentages and conditions for academy triggers are set to be same as for getting retinue memebrs of same type. For ludus magnus trigger, while both retinue triggers are at 15% chances, I deciced to use 10%, since I so no reason why naturalphilosophy and rhetorics are more easier to lern then philosophy. Also, I think that ancillatries gained by scriptorium and ludus magnus deliberatly have higher chance to happen, then memebr from academy, to make leaders get better retinue memebrs.


I still have yet to decide about dad_intelligent kind of trigger similar to NaturalMilitarySkill.

.
.
.

Now, some new things I want to discuss.
Here are existing triggers for traits of new assassins:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit1
WhenToTest AgentCreated

Condition AgentType = assassin

Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit2
WhenToTest AgentCreated

Condition AgentType = assassin
and Trait NaturalAssassinSkill = 1

Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 33

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit3
WhenToTest AgentCreated

Condition AgentType = assassin
and Trait NaturalAssassinSkill >= 2

Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 33

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit4
WhenToTest AgentCreated

Condition AgentType = assassin
and SettlementBuildingExists = great_forum

Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger assassininit5
WhenToTest AgentCreated

Condition AgentType = assassin
and SettlementBuildingExists = curia

Affects NaturalAssassinSkill 2 Chance 100

Triggers from 1 to 3 randomly give assassins natural talent from 1 to 3 (with geniuses being the rarest).
But triggers 4 and 5 are interesting. First they got introduced with 1.2 patch. Second they give better assassins if forum is upgraded. But, it's weird that they add to talent. That way if you have great forum, no assasin will have just "talent for killing", all with be either "natural born killers or geniuses". If you have Curia, all assassins will be "assassination genius", nothing less.


Is it possible that 4th and 5th triggers are supposed to add to assasin experience (GoodAssasin) instead? That way the upgraded building always mean something, and not all recuited assassins will be geniuses (but those that are will have good starting qualities).
Good: no so many geniuses means not so easy to maximize every assassin skills
Maybe bad: better talented assassins can get a good start if having upgraded forums

Joe_Nvidio828
05-29-2005, 02:25
Hey man i just had to re-registered to post here. player1, you rock for makin this patch. I just updated to 1.3 from 1.11. Gonna try it out now.

great job player1, and all the other folks who have spotted the bugs!!

player1
05-29-2005, 11:09
New findings:
Haemophobic and LenientJustice negative traits seem to be lacking slefperpetuating levels to get worse over time. Currently you can only get first level by birth (will be fixed).

Also, Haemophobic really needs to be antitrait to Berserk, otherwise you could get bloodyhanded lily-livered general (will be fixed).


Also GloriusFool can only be gained one level on birth (not sure what exaclt to do with this one).

player1
05-29-2005, 13:36
Ok, I think making Glorious Fool have selfperpetuating trigger. Not everyone has charisma to be glorious fool. So only those that started with first level of trait, will have chances of gaining higher levels.

Of course, if such character starts wining some more difficult battles, he'll get cured of glory sindrome (since GoodAttacker and GoodRiskyAttacker are antitraits), if things haven't gone too far (NoGoingBackLevel 2).

player1
05-29-2005, 15:23
I'll probably drop assassin issue, since first, it's not big deal, and second, everytime you train assassin in one of advanced buildings you get a messge that assassin got experience due to recent killings.

SpencerH
05-29-2005, 20:16
I'd love to see a CA comment on these. This isnt like some complex series of sub-routines that causes protectorates to malfunction. This is just poor coding.

player1
05-29-2005, 22:58
Version 1.4 uploaded.


New in this version:

-Made Haemophobic line of traits anti-trait to Berserk, to prevent getting Bloody-Handed generals that are terrified by blood
-Added self-perpetuating effects to LenientJustice, Haemophobic and GloriousFool line of traits, so that it is actually possible to get more then just first level of these traits
-In order to make higher levels of MathematicsSkill, PhilosophySkill, NaturalPhilosophySkill and RhetoricSkill line of traits available, several academy triggers introduced
-Added several new triggers, to make it possible that Intelligent and Genius characters can be born

Ice
05-30-2005, 03:22
Wow, nice job. 1.4 already :D

player1
05-30-2005, 08:51
I have plans for version 1.41 to increase unit size of pontic pikemen to 60 (120/240), and reduce their sheids rating to 2.


But, seeing how I made several updates in very short time, maybe I'll just wait a bit to see if there is some other chance to be done too.

Oracle
05-30-2005, 13:35
First of all great job player1!

Then i'd like to comment ludus magnum and academy triggers. The problem with this triggers is that it looks like there will be too many philisophers etc. So i don't think it's the best idea. As for this triggers and traits it'll be interesting to know what was the initial thinking in CA.

player1
05-30-2005, 13:54
True, you have the point.
It could be too much.

What about keeping the trigger, but instead requiring to have at least one level of skill?

Something like this:

Trigger academy_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy
and Trait MathematicsSkill >= 1

Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger academy_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy
and Trait PhilosophySkill >= 1

Affects PhilosophySkill 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
and Trait NaturalPhilosophySkill >= 1

Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger ludus_magnus_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists = ludus_magnus
and Trait RhetoricSkill >= 1

Affects RhetoricSkill 1 Chance 10


So those talented will have chance to improve thier skills.
It would take on average 15 years to master these skills.

More complicated triggers could be made, like one triger for those without skill and another for those with skill, but I tried to avoid arbitraty modding if possible. Only minimal number of really necessary triggers.

SpencerH
05-30-2005, 14:23
1.4, I havent loaded 1.3! I've been waiting for RTR 6.0 but I may have to start playing again just to see what effects there are.

player1
05-30-2005, 14:26
Don't worry.
You can use them "on the fly".
It won't corrupt save-game or anything.

player1
05-30-2005, 14:44
You can exect a hotfix (v1.41) to academy triggers, as well as pontic pikemen tweak at the end of the day, if something else doesn't arrise.

SpencerH
05-30-2005, 15:09
Are they incorporating your fixes into RTR? I sure dont want to put em in to RTR by hand.

player1
05-30-2005, 15:30
Well, RTR for example, doesn't mod ancillary and trait files (as far as I know), so those fixes can be added to the RTR just by replacing original files (which RTR didn't moded).

On the other hand, units and building are heavily moded in RTR so my fixes to these are completly irrelevant for RTR.

tai4ji2x
05-30-2005, 19:31
i don't think ancillaries are modded much, but RTR DOES mod the traits file significantly

player1
05-30-2005, 20:46
Ok, many more findings.

First, PublicAtheism really needs ReligiousMania and Pious as antitraits.
Also, PublicFaith trait needs Sacriligious as antitrait.
This way weird trait combos will be prevented.


Also, PublicFaith can only be gained at birth never improved. On the other hand many starting general in campaign have multiple levels of PublicFaith. I guess that making it selfperpetuating will do the trick (making then bigger "fanatics" over time).

Good/Bad Siege Attacker/Defender are also not improved in combat. they really need speicific combat triggers.



And a very big issue:
Most traits that need 2 or more points to get first level, can't really be gained by birth triggers. And that's since most birth triggers only add 1 point, instead of minimal number needed to gain level. Great oversight by developer in my oppinion.

Here is a full list (way to many of them):

BadCommander (rb)
BadAttacker (rb)
BadDefender (rb)
Feck (dad, rb)
Girls (dad, rb)
Sobriety (adoped, married, lesser gen. adopted)
BadAmbusher (rb)
BadDisciplinarian (rb)
BadSiegeAttacker (rb)
BadSiegeDefender (rb)
Xenophobia (dad, rb)
Xenophilia (dad, rb)
PublicAtheism (dad, rb)
GoodAdministrator (rb, 6)
BadAdministrator (rb)
Aesthetic (dad, rb)
Ignorance (rb, 5)
DeceiverVirtue (dad, rb)
NonAuthoritarian (dad, 3)
SmoothTalker (dad, rb)
GoodMiner (rb)
BadMiner (rb, 8)
GoodTrader (rb, 24)
HarshJustice (rb)
LenientJustice (rb)
GamesFanRomanVice (dad, rb)
RacesFanRomanVice (dad)
Generous (dad, rb, 3)
Perverted (dad)
GoodConspirator (agent create)
Talkative (rb)
GoodInfantryGeneral (rb)
BadInfantryGeneral (rb)
GoodCavalryGeneral (rb)
BadCavalryGeneral (rb)
GoodRiskyAttacker (rb)
BadRiskyAttacker (rb, 3)
GoodRiskyDefender (rb)
BadRiskyDefender (rb, 3)
IndecisiveAttacker (rb, 8)

rb - randombirth trigger
dad - dad trigger
no number - needs to be set to value 2
number - needs to be set to higher value then 2


P.S.
Whenever I make new version it would definetly be 1.5, not 1.41 ~D

Joe_Nvidio828
05-31-2005, 02:08
dude player1, you rock. keep em coming. :)

player1
05-31-2005, 09:11
Here are proposed seige triggers:


;------------------------------------------
Trigger V0270_Siege_Battle_Attacker_Victory_VnV_Trigger
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and I_ConflictType Siege
and BattleOdds < 2.25

Affects GoodSiegeAttacker 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger V0280_Siege_Battle_Attacker_Loss_VnV_Trigger
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and not WonBattle
and I_ConflictType Siege

Affects BadSiegeAttacker 1 Chance 50

;------------------------------------------
Trigger V0290_Siege_Battle_Defender_Victory_VnV_Trigger
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition not WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and I_ConflictType Siege
and BattleOdds < 1

Affects GoodSiegeDefender 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger V0300_Siege_Battle_Defender_Loss_VnV_Trigger
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition not WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and not WonBattle
and I_ConflictType Siege

Affects BadSiegeDefender 1 Chance 50


First, type of victory condition is excluded (clear/crushing), since object of battle is conquering or defending the city, not how many casualties are inflicted.

Second, these conditions are supposed to be triggered in equal or weak odds battles (GoodAttacker and RiskyAttacker combined).
That means 0 to 1.5 battle odds range. Since it's seige battle where defender has advantage, I modified odds by 50% (to 0 to 2.25 range for attacker and 0 to 1 range for defender).

.

While making these triggers, I found another interesting thing. You can only get BadAttacker/Defender trait when fighting similar odds (0.5 to 1.5), but not when odds were greatly in your favor (>1.5). While you do gain BadCommander at those odds, it's hardly fair compensation considering that with succesul attack it is possible to gain both GoodCommander and GoodAttacker/Defender.

player1
05-31-2005, 16:05
Ok, several more traits that could use 2 points in some triggers.
They all related to tiggers that are very rare, which means that it's unlikely that characters would gain levels of trait by just triggering them mutiple times. Also, they are most often introductionary triggers after which selfperpetuating effects would take over.

Sobriety (marries15, become father)
Girls (marries15, become father, suffer assasination, brother adopted)
Gambling (assasination, brother adopted)
Xenophobia (assasination)
PublicAtheism (suffer assasination) (sp?)
IanR (brother adopted) (sp?)


Here are also several traits that would really need selfperpetuating effects, since without them it would be almost impossible to gain higher levels (almost, since some can get a few points with some very rare triggers).

BadDisciplinarian
PublicAtheism
IanR
Upright
Loyal
ReligiousMania
Pious
Sacrilegious

player1
05-31-2005, 21:30
Version 1.5 released.


New in this version:

-Pontic Phalanx Pikemen get its unit size increased from 40 to 60 and shield bonus reduced from 5 to 2, in order to make them consistent with other phalanx units
-Removed "BattleOdds < 1.5", from triggers for BadAttacker/Defender line of traits, so it's possible to gain them, when losing battle while highly outnumbering the enemy
-Made PublicAtheism line of traits an anti-trait to ReligiousMania and Pious, as well as PublicFaith an anti-trait to Sacrilegious, to prevent some weird combinations
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (mostly traits that need more then one point to get first level)
-Added self-perpetuating effects to several personality traits that normally never improved after birth, or improved so rarely that it's virtually impossible to gain higher levels of those traits (new traits added in v1.5)
-In order to make higher levels of MathematicsSkill, PhilosophySkill, NaturalPhilosophySkill and RhetoricSkill line of traits available, several academy triggers introduced (trigger reworked in v1.5)
-Introduced several siege triggers so that SiegeAttack/Defense line of traits could be improved

Oracle
06-01-2005, 18:58
Wow, that's cool! Great progress player1!

As for siege there is a slight problem with BadSiege defender trigger. It's virtually impossible to get it. Because once you loose the siege, well... your general will be dead :charge:

Few thoughts regarding selfperpetuating triggers...
BadDisciplinarian looking at the Disciplinarian trigger I think there should be other way then selfperpetulence.
IanR it's ok to have selfperpetulence but this trait can be gained only through brotheradopted trigger not through other birth triggers.
As for Loyal(Disloyal), Upright, Religious, Sacrilegious, ReligiousMania probably it was design desicion not to add selfperpetulence. Since there are ways to get this traits.
But we do have issue with PublicFaith(Atheism) there is slight chance to get PA increased but there is no chance to increase PF.

vastator
06-01-2005, 21:47
Many thanks for all the hard work. :bow: One slight snag - after downloading 3 revs in the past week, I never seem to have time to play the game! :laugh4:

player1
06-02-2005, 00:12
Few thoughts regarding selfperpetuating triggers...
BadDisciplinarian looking at the Disciplinarian trigger I think there should be other way then selfperpetulence.
IanR it's ok to have selfperpetulence but this trait can be gained only through brotheradopted trigger not through other birth triggers.
As for Loyal(Disloyal), Upright, Religious, Sacrilegious, ReligiousMania probably it was design desicion not to add selfperpetulence. Since there are ways to get this traits.
But we do have issue with PublicFaith(Atheism) there is slight chance to get PA increased but there is no chance to increase PF.

Good catch!
I added few not impossible, but almost impossible triggers to have selfperpetuating effects.

Loyal and Upright:
Highly difficult to gain higher levels. Exempt if having to refuse 5-6 bribes is realistic.

Pious, Sacrilegious, ReligiousMania:
There are few triggers, but are very rare (disaster, assassination), and with low probablities (5% or less). Those triggers seem more like starting points to get first level (and then have selfperpetuating to take over), since on their own they could hardy lead to higher levels.

BadDisciplinarian.
No chance to increase is main concern here. Also similar to some other perpetuating triggers. Now when I think about it, I think Disciplinarian should be included into list too, since its triggers are also very rare (having same governor time after time in revolting and riouting cities is unrealistic), and Authoritarian is selfperpetuating too.

player1
06-02-2005, 13:15
Now when we were with Disciplinarian, I can't believe I forgot Rabblerouser. Similar to disciplinarian in tiggers, but even more difficuly to get.


I also think to changing Smoothtalker to diplomat trait.

player1
06-02-2005, 16:43
By the way anybody notived badtaxmen:


Trigger governing19
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition GovernorLoyaltyLevel > loyalty_disillusioned
and GovernorTaxLevel < tax_high

Affects BadTaxman 1 Chance 15

That's either buggy or unfair trigger, since in case of having low or normal taxes, but yellow unrest it's pretty much impossible to increase taxes any more since it would couse unrest or relvots. That's good not bad manageement. ~D

It should've probably been something like this:


Trigger governing19
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition GovernorLoyaltyLevel > loyalty_content
and GovernorTaxLevel < = tax_high

Affects BadTaxman 1 Chance 15

So in cases when you population is green, but taxes aren't maxed out, you'll get bad taxmen.
And this one would not case unrest on its own.
Even with 105 green low taxes, you can increase to 75 blue normal taxes and prevent to revolts.

player1
06-03-2005, 18:31
OK, I realised that I started to lose some focus, since my main idea with bug-fixer was bug-fixer the unofficial patch, not bug-fixer the mod.

So folowing traits will lose selfperpetuating triggers I added:
Upright
Loyal
ReligiousMania
Pious
Sacrilegious

As well as these two I planned before to add:
Rabblerouser
Disciplinarian


With all these traits it is possible to gain higher levels anyway, although very difficult to gain the highest ones.



So traits that are left with selfperpetuating are:
BadDisciplinarian
PublicFaith
LenientJustice
Haemophobic
GloriousFool
no triggers whatsoever (exmpt birth ones)

PublicAtheism (birth, assassination, plus monsterous threshold)
IanR (brother adopt only, relatively high threashold)

player1
06-03-2005, 18:35
Also, the things that are definetly in:

-BadTaxmen fix
-Smoothtalker changed to diplomat trait
-removed IndecisiveAttacker bonus in birth trigger (since it cripples military career due to haing GoodCommander as antitrait)




P.S.
Also I'm open to suggestions about some other way to resolve Academy triggers (mathematics, philosphy...) if possible.

HarunTaiwan
06-05-2005, 04:35
Player_1, I just downloaded RTR 5.4

Does that Mod also need Bug-Fixer or not?

Thanx and keep up the good work!

player1
06-05-2005, 06:24
No...
.........

player1
06-05-2005, 14:02
Ok, I redesigned Academy trigger for skills that don't improve.
It's now just one simple trigger. No need to "reinvent the wheel".


Trigger academy_vnv_trigger
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy

Affects MathematicsSkill 1 Chance 4
Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill 1 Chance 4
Affects PhilosophySkill 1 Chance 4
Affects RhetoricSkill 1 Chance 4

4% chance of improvement is big enough to be noticed, but not too big to get too much experts in philosophy or mathemathics.


Few more things:

I'll remove crushing prerequisite for risky win triggers, since clear wins when combating similar odds give levels of GoodAttacker/Defender, there is no reason why GoodstRiskyAttacker/Defender should be limited to crushing victories only.

Also, I forgot to increase award for Politics trait in marriage trigger (so new husbands could have Political Animal trait).

I also reworked Intelligent trigers chances for more natural distibution. It will be 67%/22%/11% now. Similar to chances used for agents which also have 3 levels of natural skill.


This, together with changes mentioned in last few posts are things that will probably be in next version.

the Black Prince
06-05-2005, 14:58
i have a question about this patch

i'm currently using it, and it does all it says it does

but
in the 3 campaigns i've played since then, my faction has died out every single time. my family is just not having children! its the first time thats ever happened to me...
my faction leader had 3 children, they had bunches of grandchildren, most of them pre-exisitng at the start of the game, but the grandchildren hardly reproduced. i went from 9 grandchildren to only 3 great grandchildren, and only 1 great great...

and it was the same in all 3 post patch games...

i've looked through the coding in the original and patch files, and i can't think of a single thing that could cause this.
it is interesting to note that most of the grandchildren had the fruitful or fertile trait, which i'd not seen before.
but this surely can't be producing opposite results, and looking at the trait in the file doesn't suggest that it is.

is this just a major coincidence or what??? help please!

player1
06-05-2005, 15:47
Weird...
I don't think that bug-fixer could casue this.

On the other hand, I did heard rumor once (not confirmed by myself), that generals that are always on the move (not settled in some city) won't have children.

player1
06-05-2005, 15:51
As for fertile trait that's beasue you are probably playing Julii, Egyptians or Germans and using their growth temples (they increase chance of fertility).

player1
06-06-2005, 07:25
Version 1.52 is out


New in this version

-Smoothtalker changed to be diplomat trait, since its effects deal with bribing
-Fixer trigger for BadTaxman line of traits, so it won't be awarded in situations when tax policy is best as it could be
-Removed crushing victory condition for GoodRiskyAttacker/Defender line of traits, since winning such battles with just clear victory is great accomplishment on its own
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (several fixes in v1.52)
-Added self-perpetuating effects to several personality traits that normally never improved after birth (several traits removed from list in v1.52)
-Since Mathematics, Philosophy, Natural Philosophy and Rhetoric skills could only be gained at birth, new academy trigger was introduced to make it possible to gain levels in these skills (new trigger in v1.52)
-Added several new triggers, to make it possible that Intelligent and Genius characters could be born (chances reworked in v1.52)

player1
06-06-2005, 11:59
Does anybody remember the old bug, when gaining anti-trait would reset trait value to zero, regardless how good trait was?

Well, I found out the solution.

The thing is that traits that have "no going back level" aren't affected.
So soulution is to add "virtual" no going back level to all traits. Since we really don't want to have all traits with real no gonig back levels, no going back level should be one level higher then highest level of the trait (impossible to reach). So, for example, if GoodCommander has 5 levels, its no going back level should be made 6.

Tue
06-06-2005, 18:06
The link seems to be broken.

therother
06-06-2005, 18:38
Yeah, there seems to have been a mix up with the filename. It's been fixed.

player1
06-09-2005, 11:34
Version 1.54 is out.

New in this version:

-Made Coward line of traits anti-trait to Warlord, since in game text describes Warlords as brave
-Expensive Tastes line of traits made an anti-trait to Miserly, and Generous made an anti-trait to Cheapskate
-Arse made anti-trait to Prim for obvious reasons
-Several anti-traits that worked in one direction fixed to work in both directions
-Anti-traits for Indecisive Attacker changed from GoodCommander and GoodAttacker to GoodAttacker and GoodRiskyAttacker, so that having Indecisive Attacker trait won't prevent general from gaining Command bonuses
-Removed anti-traits from LostEagle and RegainedEagle line of traits, so it's possible to have them both in same time, as intended
-Fixed a bug, when gaining an anti-trait would reset trait value to 0 (instead of reducing it for value of anti-trait)
-Fixer trigger for BadTaxman line of traits, so it won't be awarded in situations when tax policy is best as it could be (trigger modified in v1.54)
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (few errors fixed in v1.54)
-Since Mathematics, Philosophy, Natural Philosophy and Rhetoric skills could only be gained at birth, new academy trigger was introduced to make it possible to gain levels in these skills (chances lowered to 3% in v1.54)

Rowan11088
06-10-2005, 17:31
Probably a dumb question, but then again I'm a dumb person. I'm thinking about installing1.2 finally (been using 1.1 to avoid extra bugs) and I'm going to install RTR also i think on top of it. Can/should I install the Bug-fixer as well? Or if I wanted to play vanilla 1.2 on-line, could I use bug-fixer, or would that make my version incompatible with most online users? My instinct tells me that it would, so maybe I shouldn't use it, but I'm forgetting now if RTR even has a fix for the "shooting while moving" bug, which is a big issue for me. Anyone?

player1
06-10-2005, 21:57
Over vanilla 1.2?
Yes

Over RTR?
No

Online?
Only if you use original unit files (so no HA-fix)

player1
06-11-2005, 15:35
Small update released (v1.55):

-Sound of "armor" for Desert Axemen and Bastarnae Mercenaries changed from metal to flesh, since they wear no armor
-Removed v1.54 fix to eagle triggers (since it didn't made a difference)
-Since Mathematics, Philosophy, Natural Philosophy and Rhetoric skills could only be gained at birth, new academy trigger was introduced to make it possible to gain levels in these skills (chances tweaked in v1.55 to make better traits have lower chances)
-Introduced several siege triggers so that SiegeAttack/Defense line of traits could be improved (odds tweaked in v1.55 to not make them too common)

Joe_Nvidio828
06-12-2005, 16:49
damn sooo many updates, i think im gonna let em build up for a while lol. like to 1.61 or somethin. :)

gj.

player1
06-12-2005, 19:01
~D ~D ~D

NimbleNota
06-12-2005, 19:13
Good SP patch ~:cheers:

Barbarian_King
06-13-2005, 09:59
Why not make this thread sticky, so people can find it no matter how old it is.
~:cheers:

Tue
06-13-2005, 14:00
If this has been asked before I apologise.

Will this patch work with a saved game or only a new one?

In my current game I've built several Praetorian Cohorts but the Marius reforms aren't forthcoming. Will this cause any problems (i.e. they shouldn't be available if I patch the game, but I already have them)?

Thanks in advance.

Orange
06-13-2005, 18:52
Hi Player1,

First of all, compliments for the work... The 'scarred' bug annoyed me enormously!

I have also a small question which you might be able to help me on, due to your knowledge of triggers and options.

The patch 1.2 and including your bugfix gives me the problem that vices and retinues I gain for my people are not shown as an info parchment. (the squares dropping down on the lefthand side are those of: end-turn, recruitment, diplomacy, coming of age etc., all but the retinue and virtue things). This makes it extremely annoying to keep track of VV development. Its not game-ruining, but perhaps you know a way to fix this. I have not seen anyone else suffering from this.

It might just be an option in preferences or something, but I have not been able to fix it. So, I would kindly ask you (or anyone else) if you know of a solution that might work?

Thanks in advance!

vastator
06-13-2005, 22:38
I'm all set. I've installed Bug-Fixer v1.55 plus Darth Vader's Formation Mod v2.0 (joy unbounded - phalanxes that actually hold formation! ~D ). I've made numerous personal changes to give a much more satisfying campaign - and now I'm going on holiday for a fortnight before I can actually try it out! TOO - MUCH - MODDING!!! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaarrrrgh!!!!!!!

player1
06-14-2005, 01:27
If this has been asked before I apologise.

Will this patch work with a saved game or only a new one?

In my current game I've built several Praetorian Cohorts but the Marius reforms aren't forthcoming. Will this cause any problems (i.e. they shouldn't be available if I patch the game, but I already have them)?

Thanks in advance.

No it won't make a problem.
You can keep those that your built, as well as those that your started building.

player1
06-14-2005, 01:33
Orrange:
As far as I know, not all trait gains are documented in "news" section every turn, only those important ones.

If you are keen in moding, you could look VnV file in data\text folder, and you'll there see that only those traits with "gain_desc" are tracked every turn.

So just add "gain_desc" with some flavor text for those traits you want to track.

player1
06-14-2005, 14:21
BUG-FIXER needs your help!

I decided to eradicate non-sense or impossible trait combos by adding anti-traits were necesarry.
Here is the list of propsed anti-traits. I need feedback which other things should be added, as well as what of these combos should still be allowed back.


LenientJustice (Lenient, Merciful Judge, Kind Judge) anti-triats:
-AuthoritarianRomanVirtue (Strict, Authoritarian, Rods-And-Axes)
-Authoritarian (Strict Governor, Harsh Governor, Authoritarian Governor)
-HarshRuler (Heartless Ruler, Harsh Ruler, Cruel Ruler)
(incompatilbe ways to deal with justice and order)

HarshJustice (Punisher, Severe, Harsh Judge) anti-traits:
-NonAuthoritarian (Considerate Governor, Benevolent Governor, Liberal Governor)
-KindRuler (Benevolent Ruler, Benign Ruler, Humane Ruler)
(incompatilbe ways to deal with justice and order)

KindRuler (Benevolent Ruler, Benign Ruler, Humane Ruler) anti-traits:
-Unjust (Judgemental, Wrong-headed, Unjust)
-Miserly (Careful With Money, Tight-fisted, Miserly)
(kind rule doesn't mix with unjustness and miserly behaviour)

HarshRuler (Heartless Ruler, Harsh Ruler, Cruel Ruler) anti-traits:
-Just (Even-handed, Just, Absolutely Just)
-Generous (Open-handed, Unstinting, Generous)
(cruel incompatible with real justice and generosity)

Just (Even-handed, Just, Absolutely Just) anti-traits:
-Corrupt (Flexible, Dubious, Corrupt)
-Embezzler (Financially Irregular, Fiscally Flexible, Embezzler)
(to moraly flexible to be realy just)

Unjust (Judgemental, Wrong-headed, Unjust) anti-traits:
-Upright (Trusty, Honest, Upright)
(if honest, you won't be unjust)

Pragmatic (Rational Beliefs, Pragmatic, Utterly Pragmatic) anti-traits:
-Pious (Reverent, Respectful of the Gods, Pious)
-ReligiousMania (Favour of the Gods, Love of the Gods, One of the Gods)
-PublicFaith (Devout, Religious, Honours The Gods, Venerates The Gods)
(highly religious people are not pragmatic)

Superstitious (Rational Concerns, Superstitious, Hugely Superstitious) anti-traits:
-PublicAtheism (Faithless, Atheist, Hates The Gods)
-Sacrilegious (Irreverent, Contemptuousofthe Gods, Sacrilegious)
(atheism and sacrilegion sound suicidal for superstitious people, beware of lightning stike)

IanR (Self Publicist, Spin Doctor, Narcissist) anti-traits:
-Prim (Firm Personal Morality, Prim, Prim and Proper)
(nothing will stop him from being popular, so not prim)

DeceiverVirtue (Sly, Deceiver, Great Deceiver) anti-traits:
-Talkative (Loose-lipped, Talkative, Foolishy Indiscreet)
(deciving doesn't work well when lose-lipping)

GamesFanRomanVice (Gladiatorial_Fan, Gladiator_Obsessed, Hero-Worships_Gladiators) anti-traits:
-Haemophobic (Lily-Livered, Hates Blood, Terrified by Blood)
(can't like massacres, due to blood)

Disciplinarian (Obsessional_Trainer, Drillmaster, Martinet) anti-traits:
-Slothful (Rather Lazy, Lazy, Indolent Lardy Arse)
-LenientJustice (Lenient, Merciful Judge, Kind Judge) anti-triats:
(soft judgement and slothfulness don't mix with iron military discipline)

Austere (Stern, Spartan, Austere) anti-traits:
-Epicurean (Gourmet of Life, Refined Tastes, Rarified Tastes)
-Slothful (Rather Lazy, Lazy, Indolent Lardy Arse)
-ApicianRomanVice (Gourmand, Glutton, Apician Glutton)
(none of this is spartan in any way)

Stoic (Restrained, Cold Manner, Stoic) anti-traits:
-Anger (Anger, Unquenched_Anger, Uncontrollable_Rage)
-BloodHumour (Positive, Optimistic, Sanguine)
-BlackBileHumour (Gloomy, Morose, Melancholic)
-YellowBileHumour (Testy, Cantankerous, Choleric)
(empotionaly restrained, similar to calm PhlegmHumour trait)


Note that anti-traits that already exist in game, as well as those added in earlier versions of bug-fixer, haven't been listed here.

Volstag
06-14-2005, 14:43
Player1: First of all, awesome job. Secondly, is there any chance you've sent these bugs to the fine folks at CA? It wouldn't surprise me to find many of these problems still exist even with the release of BI.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

-V

player1
06-14-2005, 15:41
Well, I think I put the link in LM bug list thread about bug-fixer.

Orange
06-15-2005, 09:09
Orrange:
As far as I know, not all trait gains are documented in "news" section every turn, only those important ones.

If you are keen in moding, you could look VnV file in data\text folder, and you'll there see that only those traits with "gain_desc" are tracked every turn.

So just add "gain_desc" with some flavor text for those traits you want to track.


~:)

Ah, many thanks. I did not know that. I was under the impression that vanilla RTW 1.0 did track all the traits and retinue gains.

I'll try some modding myself than :book:

Tue
06-15-2005, 13:57
I installed your patch (1.55) yesterday and so I havn't played enough yet to comment on it's qualities. However, I noticed a strange thing which may or may not be a bug in your patch.

I left one of my generals in a city with an Academy to let him gain proficiencies and retinue and the next turn his portrait had changed. It used to be a face ~;) but now it looks like part of one of the building pictures.

I havn't a clue how to fix it myself so any help would be greatly appreciated.

player1
06-15-2005, 16:29
That IS weird.

And should never happen.
Only time when faces change are when leaders get old (or become faction leaders in case of romans, I think).

Did you had any other mods installed?

the_inquisition
06-15-2005, 19:26
Tue, Player 1:

I've also noticed that one face of my generals, left in a city with an academy, got very corrupted. The face in the "units" tab, that is, not the Info screen. In fact, it CHANGES. Parts of a building, Quinquireme etc. Only affects this character. No mods except your 1.54 (not 1.55) and RW 1.2. Quite weird.

Btw Player1, your fixes rock. :)

player1
06-15-2005, 23:25
Yes, it is weird, since I haven't changed anything that could affect graphics in any way.

Not to mention that I haven't had similar problems myself.

Anybody tried reloading their saves with original rules to see if bug persists?

Tue
06-16-2005, 10:08
Yes, it is weird, since I haven't changed anything that could affect graphics in any way.

Not to mention that I haven't had similar problems myself.

Anybody tried reloading their saves with original rules to see if bug persists?

No, I havn't tried that, but I spoke with one of my friends yesterday who isn't using your patch and he's having the same problem, so I guess you're off the hook. ~;)

I can't figure out what triggers it, because I've only seen it once.

spacekraken
06-16-2005, 10:15
This looks like an awesome patch, but I'm kinda fuzzy about the installation. I've never extracted a zip file directly to a game folder. I usually extract then copy and paste.

If I extract directly to the Rome - Total War folder will it automatically put everything where it should be?
Thanks.

Tue
06-16-2005, 13:33
This looks like an awesome patch, but I'm kinda fuzzy about the installation. I've never extracted a zip file directly to a game folder. I usually extract then copy and paste.

If I extract directly to the Rome - Total War folder will it automatically put everything where it should be?
Thanks.

Yes it will. And since player1 has incorporated the original files in the patch, you can always replace the patch if you need to.

PyrrhusofEpirus
06-16-2005, 17:08
Tue, Player 1:

I've also noticed that one face of my generals, left in a city with an academy, got very corrupted. The face in the "units" tab, that is, not the Info screen. In fact, it CHANGES. Parts of a building, Quinquireme etc. Only affects this character. No mods except your 1.54 (not 1.55) and RW 1.2. Quite weird.

Btw Player1, your fixes rock. :)

I've noticed that too, but playing vanilla RTW 1.0 without any mod. I think it is game's bug.
You don't need to worry player1, you make an awesome job player1!!!
By the way, hello everybody, I am Pyrrhus of Epirus :bow:

player1
06-16-2005, 22:07
New bug:
CharacterMarries event does not work!

I did few tests with putting chances for several traits to 100, and neither player's familiy members nor those adpoted by marriage never got any traits from this event.

That's probably the reason why I never saw in play traits like Wife Above Reproach or Well Mannered Wife.


P.S.
No idea could it be fixed by bug-fixer.

Zakor
06-16-2005, 22:48
I use the patch, and I like it, but I just had a governor (who had never left town) get "Insanely Brave" +5 for morale, for putting himself in danger yet living to tell the tale.

Is "Brave" self perpetuating?

player1
06-16-2005, 23:17
No

There is 15% chance to get "one point" in brave (need 16 points for insanely brave), if more then 30% of his bodyguard get killed.

Also 20% chance to get another point in Brave if general killed more then 6 enemy solider.

And another 20% if more then 8 soliders are killed.


Also battleforge temples (light weapon upgrade and experience boost) give 15% chance per turn to get 1 point of brave.


P.S.
These are all triggers from original game.

Zakor
06-16-2005, 23:26
Well, that's odd. I have a governor who got +5 bravery during a turn that he sat in town the whole time.

player1
06-16-2005, 23:48
What temple town had?

And what was his brave rating before battle?

Big-T
06-16-2005, 23:49
Well, that's odd. I have a governor who got +5 bravery during a turn that he sat in town the whole time.
Well, like player1 said, was there a temple in that city that gave that 15% chance every turn? Maybe he got lucky enough, and keep getting points from the temple.

-T

player1
06-16-2005, 23:55
For reference brave level before Insanely Brave is Utterly Fearless (at least 8 points in brave).

Zakor
06-16-2005, 23:57
What temple town had?

And what was his brave rating before battle?
Before what battle? :)

Both towns (Armenian) had Temples of Vahagan (the one that gives XP to troops, bonus to light weapons, and happiness, the one whose priest lowers recruiting cost by 10% and gives +1 command)

And don't get me wrong, this is not a critique of the bug fixer. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the time and effort that you did for us on this.

player1
06-17-2005, 08:43
Ok, I now understand...


Congratulations!
You have a battleforge temple.
Among all other nice benefits, your governors become braver and braver every turn.
15% chance to get Brave point every turn, great choice!


P.S.
Good temple, isn't it?

player1
06-17-2005, 13:29
Version 1.56 is out.

New things:
-Made Druid retinue members available in justice shrines (Esus) instead of battle shrines (Hebeleyzis), so that Gauls could get them and not Dacians
-Added anti-traits to some traits to prevent weird or impossible combinations (see readme for details)
-Tweaked trigger for gaining experience with spies when doing missions with 100% success rate, so it will be fired for spies with one or zero levels of experience, and not just for those with exact one level of experience
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (few tweaks in v1.56)

player1
06-17-2005, 23:15
By the way, to just make it known, I made a workaround for marrage triggers that didn't worked before.

Expect Faithful Wifes and Cuckolds in next version...

player1
06-20-2005, 19:43
Version 1.57 is out.

New things:
-Fixed buggy marriage triggers, which prevented characters from getting any traits from marriage event
-Fixed a problem when characters that are not married could get Cuckold trait (by adding IsMarried condition before check)
-Tweaked triggers which reduced effects of Drink and Girls traits after marriage or getting children, so that reduction of Drink trait would work for barbarians and that reduction of Girls trait would not lead to secondary effects
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (few non-birth effects removed in v1.57)

sik1977
06-21-2005, 16:18
Version 1.57 is out.

New things:
-Fixed buggy marriage triggers, which prevented characters from getting any traits from marriage event
-Fixed a problem when characters that are not married could get Cuckold trait (by adding IsMarried condition before check)
-Tweaked triggers which reduced effects of Drink and Girls traits after marriage or getting children, so that reduction of Drink trait would work for barbarians and that reduction of Girls trait would not lead to secondary effects
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (few non-birth effects removed in v1.57)

Great work Player1 on the Bug-fixer and its continous improvement. I also want to compliment you on the new format of readme stating what each and every file fixes, so that they can be used piece-meal with other mods where possible.

Excellent work, keep it up. ~:cheers:

Tue
06-23-2005, 14:28
Excellent work, Player1, keep it up. ~:cheers:

One question: In your modded files (export_descr_character_traits.txt for instance) there's a note saying that I shouldn't edit that file but the parent file (Spreadsheet VnV-something) and then re-export the file. However, I can't find the Spreadsheet VnV-file. What am I missing?

player1
06-23-2005, 19:00
That's a note from one developer to another, not note to us moders.

There is no spreadsheat to export in final version of the game.

I guess that when developers made those files, that they had
some autogenerating script that exported files from a spreadseat table to the txt files (and thus lowering chance for error from bad syntax in txt file).

Of course, since that tool didn't make it in published version of the game (nor original spreadseat), we all need to edit files manually.


In short, disregard the warning. It's pointless for us modders.

Tue
06-24-2005, 11:02
That's a note from one developer to another, not note to us moders.

There is no spreadsheat to export in final version of the game.

I guess that when developers made those files, that they had
some autogenerating script that exported files from a spreadseat table to the txt files (and thus lowering chance for error from bad syntax in txt file).

Of course, since that tool didn't make it in published version of the game (nor original spreadseat), we all need to edit files manually.


In short, disregard the warning. It's pointless for us modders.


Thank you very much. I've PMed you with another question so I don't spam you thread (current post excluded ~;) )

player1
07-04-2005, 20:27
Version 1.58 released

New in this version:

-Fixed the issue with Spanish governors not gaining priests as their retinue members
-Fixed color of sprites for following mercenary units and their mounts: Thracian Mercenaries, Bastarnae Mercenaries, Sarmatian Mercenaries, Scythian Mercenaries, Spanish Mercenaries, Numidian Mercenaries, Arab Cavalry, Bedouin Warriors, Bedouin Archers and Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries
-Added unit info picture for spanish Onagers since it was missing

Fridericus Rex
07-04-2005, 22:03
Player1, I like to install your patch into the SQPR Mod - is there any problem with the installment over the Mod?
Do I have to install all your updates? Where can I find the complete Patch for the download?
Thank you for the help you can give me.

econ21
07-04-2005, 22:26
You can download Bug-fixer from this link:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/lm/Bugfixer/

I believe TosaInu has uploaded the latest version. ~:cheers:

A big thank you to player1 for his excellent work. :bow:

player1
07-04-2005, 23:43
Player1, I like to install your patch into the SQPR Mod - is there any problem with the installment over the Mod?

Well, since bug-fixer is designed with original game in mind, there will be problems.

Also, not all fixes done in bug-fixer are needed in some of the mods, since they have their own tweaks too.

Still, if you like to experiment, "install" only those parts of bug-fixer that you know that didn't got changed with other mods.

So, for example, in SQPR doesn't modify VnV trait system, you could install that part of the mod, and skip things like units (which are obviously moded in SPQR). Just be careful with this "custom" moding.

Fridericus Rex
07-05-2005, 18:47
Player1 - I installed your patch over a vanilla version and than the SQPR mod on top of it. Since your changes are mostly in VnV and some units, I thought, that the SQPR files will have an effect on the unit changes.
Everything works fine as SQPR, but how can I determine whether I have your other patch files?

player1
07-05-2005, 19:02
Well you could always unpack bug-fixer files to some dummy folder and then compare the date when those files got modified compared to those in rtw data folder.

Jambo
07-05-2005, 19:18
-Fixed the problem with sprites not being generated for following units: Libyan Spearmen, Poeni Infantry, Spartans, Egyptian Slingers, Egyptian Siege Crew, Gallic Swordsmen and German Skirmisher Warband
-Fixed sprites for Cretan Archers, so they won't be half-sized anymore (new sprites included)

How did you do this precisely?

Cheers

player1
07-05-2005, 20:12
For Cretan Archers I made new sprites using sprite generator included in the game.


As for other thing, I needed to define some of mercenary models as separate entities.

For example descr_model_battle.txt file you have something like this:


type carthage_scutarius
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman
indiv_range 40
texture spain, data/models_unit/textures/unit_carthage_scutarius_spain.tga
texture merc, data/models_unit/textures/unit_carthage_scutarius_mercenary.tga
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_high.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_med.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_low.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite 60.0, data/sprites/carthage_scutarius_sprite.spr
model_sprite spain, 60.0, data/sprites/spain_carthage_scutarius_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

This model is used for both scutarii and spanish mercenaries. But, due to some ingame behaviour, if army has both units, they will get same color of the sprites (brown spanish).

To fix that I added new definition for mercenary scutarii:


type carthage_scutarius_merc
skeleton fs_javelinman, fs_swordsman
indiv_range 40
texture merc, data/models_unit/textures/unit_carthage_scutarius_mercenary.tga
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_high.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_med.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_low.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/unit_carthage_scutarius_lowest.cas, max
model_sprite 60.0, data/sprites/carthage_scutarius_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

Also, export_descr_unit.txt file needs to be modified to use carthage_scutarius_merc model.

Similar thing is done to several mounts (which now use seperate merc version of mounts).

Jambo
07-05-2005, 21:07
Excellent, thanks.

What about the problem with sprites not being generated for following units: Libyan Spearmen, Poeni Infantry, Spartans, Egyptian Slingers, Egyptian Siege Crew, Gallic Swordsmen and German Skirmisher Warband?

How did these get adjusted/fixed?

player1
07-06-2005, 00:06
In descr_model_battle.txt Gallic Swordsmen and German Skirmisher Warband had listed incorrect faction for thier sprites (britons and gauls), while other sprites haven't had listed their faction at all, which allthogether led to having all of them not use sprites at all.

player1
07-07-2005, 20:45
Version 1.59 is out.

New in this version:
-Fixed buggy marriage triggers, which prevented characters from getting any traits or retinue members from marriage event (reworked in v1.59)
-Fixed a bug which prevented newly grown up characters from getting any retinue members at start, like Mentor or Tutor

player1
07-10-2005, 08:58
I just noticed that Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries in Gaul, and only in Gaul, cost just 450gp, while they are 800gp in all other provinces.

Could this be a bug?

cruix
07-10-2005, 09:58
player1, have you had a chance to take a look at what DarthVader did in his mod in terms of the battlefield AI and formations? Unforunately right now the BUG-FIXER isn't compatible with that AI mod, but I can always hope can't I?

player1
07-10-2005, 14:32
Actually, it's pretty much compatible with stand-alone version of his formations.

cruix
07-10-2005, 19:51
Actually, it's pretty much compatible with stand-alone version of his formations.

yes, but in his full mod with which the supposed full benefits of the formations can be realized, he also modifies files like export_descr_units and descr_model_battle and so on. I'm personally not a big fan of adding/removing units from the game, since that's usually where the incompatibilities come in.
I just thought that since you were compiling bug fixes from various souces, it might be an option in the future for you to include the guy's AI "fixes" too.

sunsmountain
07-12-2005, 03:54
I disagree, no need to make the game harder for those who just want their bugs fixed. A lot of my friends find Rome: TW challenging. I'm not one of them, so i have to mod to make life worse for myself, but think about the majority...

For those who wish to know more about DARTH VADER (username at www.twcenter.net) mod, go here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27942

LorDBulA (or Borsook as he is named here at the org) also made a mod, see:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45871

cruix
07-13-2005, 00:52
thanks sunsmountain for the LorDBulA link, I will definitely take a look.

However, I disagree with what you said about making the game "harder". Let me put it this way: Have you ever been

- charged by AI archers without them firing a single shot?
- charged by a single AI unit with the rest of their army standing about 10 feet away getting shot at? :charge:
- blockaded by a ridiciously weak fleet (say, 13 men left on one single longboat) when you have one or more stronger fleets within one turn of said blockade?
- attacked a city manned by similarily understrengthed army which a normal player would have readily retrained? (and it is clear that the AI has both the money and facilities in the city to retrain?)

correcting stuff like this shouldn't be considered making the game "harder", although it de facto makes the AI better. But rememeber, better AI also means you get AI reinforcements and allies that don't actually suck and a better gaming experience overall. I mean, if the AI was somehow only sending stacks of 20 peasents to attack you throughout the entire game, I'm sure you'd have long givenup tactical battle and just autocalc'ed your way into uninstalling the game. While the currently somewhat goofy AI isn't quite that bad, it's the same idea.

I'm sure everyone on this board has their favorite composition of 20 unit stacks that they take into battle knowing it will most likely crush anything the AI throws at it, even when outnumbered. This in turn makes tactical battles almost a chore since you more or less know how/what the AI is going to do and hence what you're going to do. While this is almost certainly a good thing, just think how much more enjoyable if you went into every battle not knowing if it'll be a heroic victory or crushing defeat? (or maybe not so much variance in the outcome, but something less certain as war is?)

You gotta give your said friends more credit if they're new to the game. I'm sure they won't find it so chanlleging after going at it for more than a week or two, unless they get so bored that the game gets uninstalled first.

player1
07-13-2005, 01:03
Well, the thing is that standalone 6.5/6.6 darthvader formations are really all what is needed to get better battle AI. And bug-fixer is compatilble with it.

Other darthvader changes are pretty much unit, battle and campaign balancing (which, of course, could or could not lead to better AI), something out of scope for a mere bug-fixer (which should represent "vanilla" in best sight).

IceTorque
07-13-2005, 01:17
My sig says it all.

Kourutsu
07-14-2005, 20:53
So bottom line...
Is the patch safe!? Will it screw my computer in horrible ways!?

player1
07-14-2005, 23:10
MUAHAHAHAHA!!! :devil:


Just joking.
Patch is ok, it even makes a folder with backup of original 1.2 files it replaces, so you can revert back if needed.

player1
07-15-2005, 12:00
Version 1.6 is out.

New in this version:
-Changed price of Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries that are recruited in Gaul from 450 to 800, since it was too low, and to make it in line with prices in other regions
-Added anti-traits to some traits to prevent weird or impossible combinations (added BoringSpeaker as antitrait to Rabblerouser in v1.6)
-Increased values awarded to many traits in birth triggers, so it's actually possible to gain those traits by birth (added tweak to AssassinMaster trait for eastern factions in v1.6)
-Added Strategic and Tactical skills into Academy trigger, since their description heavily implies academic learning
-included Integration Guide in the readme, for those users that like to mix and match various mods

SMZ
07-15-2005, 15:33
just wanted to tell you, your work is very much appreciated - I'm really glad somebody did something like this

Kourutsu
07-19-2005, 00:28
Another thing, does this fixer change the game that the developers made? I see that you have changed unit sizes, stats, and devolopment in this fixer. Since this fixer is un-official I don't assume these are fixes the developers wanted to make.

Is there an official fixer?

player1
07-19-2005, 00:34
There is no such thing as offical fix, otherwise it would be a patch.

Only stat changes I introduced are those that I would consider/guess they would want to make, if they made another patch. Like removing shield bonus for bedouin archers (since they have no shield). Or chaning pontic phalanx unit size to 60 (since it has exatly same name as greek units, plus unit flavor text talks about 8 row deep foramtion, impossible with original 40 unit size).

Or Spain getting Long Shield Cavalry available (otherwise they have 2nd level stables empty).

I tried keeping arbitary changes too minimum, so it would still look like totaly unmoded game (plus fixes).

Kourutsu
07-19-2005, 03:39
Wait...did you make traits hereditary!?

Kourutsu
07-19-2005, 03:43
I'm not saying its bad or anything...

player1
07-19-2005, 09:42
Wait...did you make traits hereditary!?

Check the readme for details (I listed there all changes).
I didn't change any hereditary related triggers, compared to vanilla game.

Joe_Nvidio828
07-20-2005, 20:59
awesome dude. im gonna start a game with 1.6. I havent played since 1.47 or something. should be sweet. i'll take special notice of traits . good work.

Ludens
07-24-2005, 14:55
I have been downloading Bug-fixer since version 1.2 so it is high time I said thank you to Player1. I currently have version 1.6 (off course) installed and I've had a lot of enjoyment of the changes made to the game.

However, I did notice a few oddities. Recently, a grandson came of age with both good attacker and indifferent attacker traits. Is this going to cause problems?

Also, and this is really bizarre, mercenary cavalry in Gaul still cost 450 denarii in an ongoing Julii campaign, while the descr_mercenary file list them as costing 800. Any theories?

Lastly (and I don't know if you've fixed this), my faction heir Marcus "the Honest" at one point got the first trait in the deceiver line: 'sometimes his falsehoods are spotted as such'. Must be a really specialised kind of honesty.

Anyway, thank you again for making this fix and I hope shall continue working on it after BI.

player1
07-24-2005, 16:16
However, I did notice a few oddities. Recently, a grandson came of age with both good attacker and indifferent attacker traits. Is this going to cause problems?

Are you sure it's not Hesitant Attacker trait?

The reason why I ask it that both GoodAttacker and BadAttacker (which first level is Indifferent Attacker) are two way antitraits, so if you have one you can't get another.

In case of IndecisiveAttacker line of trait (which part is Hesitant Attacker), you can get it if GoodAttacker is already generated, but not if it is other way around.


It would be good if you could list in what order and what traits that general had after the birth.


And anyway, it should not casue the problems, since after a while, like if general gets more points in goodattacker, other trait will get "dulled out".

player1
07-24-2005, 16:19
Also, and this is really bizarre, mercenary cavalry in Gaul still cost 450 denarii in an ongoing Julii campaign, while the descr_mercenary file list them as costing 800. Any theories?

I haven't tested this one, but could it be possible that only at start of the campaign, is descr_mercenary.txt consulted and after that mercenary cost is saved in saved games, so can't be modified for ongoing campaign.

Just theory haven't tested it yet.

player1
07-24-2005, 16:38
Lastly (and I don't know if you've fixed this), my faction heir Marcus "the Honest" at one point got the first trait in the deceiver line: 'sometimes his falsehoods are spotted as such'. Must be a really specialised kind of honesty.

Well, the reason I haven't tweaked this one out (yet), is that DeceiverVirtue is roman-only trait, that is usually gained when faction leader is ordering a lots of spying, assasin and bribery missions.

On the other hand Upright line of traits (including honesty), is usually gained by those generals that repeatedly refused the bribes.

So, here is the problem.
If I made them as anti-traits, it could happen for a Deceiver character to lose his deceiver levels if he resist bribes (even when he gained the Cunning nickname).

Other way around should be not possible since honest characters have proper nogoingback level to prevent it.

Still, when I think about it, only faction leader can get higher levels of Deceiver trait, and thus should not be bribable.

So, I need to investigate this thing, since AI diplomats are bribe crazy (trying bribes that almost always fail, though a good way to get honest generals), to see if leader can get Honest trait if around enemy diplomats.


EDIT:
Confirmed, AI diplomats can even try bribing Faction Leaders and Heirs (they get loyal or trusty trait). Of course, it always fails.

player1
07-25-2005, 01:28
Update:
I'll fix Decever vs Honest by making them anti-traits.

In same time I'll exclude faction leader and heir from refuse bribe triggers, since they should not be bribable anyway, and thus should not get any benefit from buggy AI proposed bribes

Should also fix a possible problem when deciever expert refuses bribe and gets worse in his job, since only good deceivers are faction leaders.

Ludens
07-25-2005, 12:22
Are you sure it's not Hesitant Attacker trait?

(...)

It would be good if you could list in what order and what traits that general had after the birth.
You are right, I confused hesitant attacker with indifferent attacker. I haven't got a save game of the year he was born, but at his nineteenth year (the intervening time spent at the Ludus Magna while an uncle ruled the city) he was:
Outstanding speaker
Good ambusher
Confident attacker
Hesitant attacker
Philosophically inclined
Skilled debater
In this order. The last two traits he may have picked up at the Ludus Magna, but he was both confident and hesitant attacker when he was born. I guess the 'hesitant attacker' line is a relic of the M:TW system where you would order an army to invade a province. The AI would often send reinforcement to the province during the turn so you faced a much bigger army than you anticipated. If you cancelled the attack, your army, which would have to march back and forth between the invaded province and home, would lose faith in it's leaders ability. In R:TW, where it is much easier to gauge the enemies strength and the AI cannot send reinforcements during the turn, this is not such a problem. But that's hardly relevant here. Sorry to get side-tracked.


I haven't tested this one, but could it be possible that only at start of the campaign, is descr_mercenary.txt consulted and after that mercenary cost is saved in saved games, so can't be modified for ongoing campaign.

Just theory haven't tested it yet.
That would be it. I started a new campaign as Gaul and after a number of turns the mercenaries showed up at the right price, however when I loaded my old campaign, hired the merc cavalry and pressed end turn until the unit reappeared, it was still at 450 denarii.


Well, the reason I haven't tweaked this one out (yet), is that DeceiverVirtue is roman-only trait, that is usually gained when faction leader is ordering a lots of spying, assasin and bribery missions.

On the other hand Upright line of traits (including honesty), is usually gained by those generals that repeatedly refused the bribes.
I see. In that case the description of the traits is misleading: the honest-trait should be loyal (thought there already is a loyal virtue) and the deceiver-line should be... realpolitiker or something similar.

player1
07-29-2005, 21:55
Version 1.61 is out.

New in this version:
-Fixed triggers for Foreign Dignitary and Foreign Hostage retinue members, so they will actually be awarded in foreign lands and not at home
-Fixed an error when following retinue members could become doubled: Dancer, Druid, Freeman Clerk and Judge
-Removed loyalty awards given to faction leader or heir when AI diplomat, by error, tries to bribe them, since faction leader or heir aren't supposed to be bribable
-Fixed a problem when assassins would never get any experience by doing sabotage missions
-In notification that assassin has gained experience, changed word "kill" to "mission", since now sabotage missions can give experience too
-Made it possible, for barbarian factions, to gain Warlord line of traits in battle, and not only Britons in Andrasta temples

Macka
08-03-2005, 21:18
Can you tell me how i can make the marius reforms to happen at their historical date, and not so early

player1
08-03-2005, 21:24
Well, that's tricky.

But since one of reform requirements is that in needs to be at least 100 turns in game to get them appear, if you set game to start at 160BC, they would happen at 110BC at earliest.

Of course, it's not much of a solution.

Macka
08-03-2005, 21:26
isn't it possible to higher the solution to 300 or sth like that?

Macka
08-03-2005, 21:28
isn't it possible to higher the solution to 300 or sth like that?
i meant requirement not solution

player1
08-04-2005, 00:27
nope it's hardcoded

player1
08-04-2005, 13:42
Small update in v1.62:

-Holding games in arena type buildings limited to Romans only, to prevent "THIS GAMES HELD TEXT SHOULD NEVER APPEAR ON SCREEN AND SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLATED!" message appearing when other factions try to hold games in conquered roman territories

rs2k2
08-26-2005, 12:45
hey, just wondering if bug-fixer was compatible with mundus magnus mod...

it seems like it should work fine except the mercenaries part since that's where the new units come in...

player1
08-26-2005, 15:16
There is also probably a problem with VnV system too, since it got tweaked in MM to add aditional bonuses to law and similar effects.

But you could be able to use it if you forgoe those tweaks.

sik1977
08-27-2005, 10:46
There is also probably a problem with VnV system too, since it got tweaked in MM to add aditional bonuses to law and similar effects.

But you could be able to use it if you forgoe those tweaks.

Yeah I just modified my game yesterday with MM and Bugfixer in the following sequence:

1. MM V1.2 (preferred it over V2.0).
2. Player1 Bugfixer.
3. Gloss textures added (shouldn't effect any mods anyway).
4. CC Light MusicMod. (Haven't checked this one fully after install).

This was my first major modification for RTW, as I haven't played it in months now due to lack of time etc. Its a fresh start, and I installed all mods one by one and checked if the game played fine. It seems to work just great, and I prefer Player1's fixes (that is not to discredit anyone else's work ofcourse).

@ Player1

I have a request to make of you. Is it possible for you to show me how I can add a plain archer unit to Carthage. Or if its not too much to ask, you may be better equiped to simply add a unit to the export_desc_unit.txt file and post it for download.

I am quite alright with following specific instructions and can modify the .txt files myself if you could simply explain it to me.

Thanks a lot for your help, and keep up the great work.

player1
08-27-2005, 14:45
I have a request to make of you. Is it possible for you to show me how I can add a plain archer unit to Carthage. Or if its not too much to ask, you may be better equiped to simply add a unit to the export_desc_unit.txt file and post it for download.

I am quite alright with following specific instructions and can modify the .txt files myself if you could simply explain it to me.

Go to the export_descr_buildings.txt file and find missile buildings. Then for every building you want these units available, find carthaginian archer line and change owners from "numidia," to "numidia, carthage,"

This way you can recruit them in campaign.

For them to be available in custom battles, you need to go to export_descr_unit.txt file, find the unit and add as owner carthage.


This all with not solve question of unit cards, since they and not supplied with the game (you'll see black peasants).

For that I suggest you to browse twcenter.net forums, since I think out there somebody made proper units cards. Ask them to see how to install them. I think they only need to be put in proper folder.

sik1977
08-27-2005, 20:17
Go to the export_descr_buildings.txt file and find missile buildings. Then for every building you want these units available, find carthaginian archer line and change owners from "numidia," to "numidia, carthage,"

This way you can recruit them in campaign.

For them to be available in custom battles, you need to go to export_descr_unit.txt file, find the unit and add as owner carthage.


This all with not solve question of unit cards, since they and not supplied with the game (you'll see black peasants).

For that I suggest you to browse twcenter.net forums, since I think out there somebody made proper units cards. Ask them to see how to install them. I think they only need to be put in proper folder.

Thanks a lot for the help. I managed to get the Carthiginian archers to work both in campaign and in custom battles. However, no luck with the unit cards. I searched TWC, and found one relevent thread after some searching, but it wasn't too helpful, nor did it provide any link to a unit cards created by someone for the Carthaginian Archers.

I will keep looking, in the meanwhile, if you locate the unit cards, or remember where you last saw them, please do post the link.

Thanks again.

Trithemius
08-28-2005, 04:51
Hey, brilliant work! This fix was enough to re-addict me to RTW. ~D

sik1977
08-28-2005, 19:36
@ Player1

This is with regard to the Carthage Archers advice.

I found a collection of Carthage unit cards on TWC. However, they are meant to replace all the existing cards, and have a longwinded method of doing so (replacing the ui_1.pak file etc.). There are no instructions as to how I can simply add any one unit card.

I have your player1 bug fixer installed (on to of MM) and it came with atleast one additional unit card for the Spanish Onagers which go here \Rome - Total War\Data\UI\unit_info\spain

I thought i'd try a simple trick, and created a carthage folder under unit_info and extracted the CARTHAGINIAN_ARCHER_INFO.tga file from the pack of Carthage unit cards and placed it in there (\Rome - Total War\Data\UI\unit_info\carthage).

But no luck, its still the same ol' black peasant pic. Can you help me out further?

Thanks.

player1
08-28-2005, 22:18
Actually, something like you did is what is necessary, if you don't want to toy with packing pak files.

But, I think there should be two cards, one big and one small.

By looking through existing pak files structure, using some of the extractors found at TWC, I could say that following should be done:

1) The exact same thing you already done. It should give you proper BIG unit card

2) #CARTHAGINIAN_ARCHER.TGA, if exist should be put in D:\Games\Rome - Total War\Data\UI\UNITS\CARTHAGE folder. This will give you small unit card.


I hope this helps...

sik1977
08-29-2005, 01:22
Actually, something like you did is what is necessary, if you don't want to toy with packing pak files.

But, I think there should be two cards, one big and one small.

By looking through existing pak files structure, using some of the extractors found at TWC, I could say that following should be done:

1) The exact same thing you already done. It should give you proper BIG unit card

2) #CARTHAGINIAN_ARCHER.TGA, if exist should be put in D:\Games\Rome - Total War\Data\UI\UNITS\CARTHAGE folder. This will give you small unit card.


I hope this helps...

It worked. ~:cheers:

Thanks a bunch. :bow:

therother
08-30-2005, 05:47
Have you managed to get SufferAssassinationAttempt to work correctly? I notice that it's in version 1.62.

Edit: Ah, seems to be something they fixed in 1.2... ~:)

player1
08-30-2005, 12:06
Version 1.63 released:

-Reference to "good quality armour" from Desert Axemen custom battle description changed to "wooden shields" (probably leftover from pre-patch time when desert axemen has armor value of 11)
-Reference to "leather armour" from late Thracian bodyguard changed to "mail armour", to match up unit skins
-Fixed a problem when standard AI formation would not get used for armies consisting of only non-phalanx spearmen infantry
-Fixed problem with roman formation when general would be put at flanks (added separate general block at back)
-Made possible for armies with only Hastati infantry to use roman formation, by making 3rd line of infantry not mandatory
-Fixed problem with formation for large missile cavalry groups, when general unit would be at flank overlapping with infantry
-Fixed an error in AI single line formation when artillery units would overlap with rest on the units
-Added section describing common combinations of different mods in the readme


Note that if you use some of AI formation mods, that you should install them on top of bug-fixer.

player1
09-17-2005, 00:23
Small update in v1.64

-Fixed the trigger for priest of Neptune, so it won't be awarded to governors or agents

edyzmedieval
09-17-2005, 07:37
Player1,

Do you plan on making a bug-fixer for BI also? It would be cool.

Thanks,
Edyzmedieval

P.S.: All hail the Balkans! You're my neighbour. ~D

player1
09-17-2005, 09:22
If it needs one... ~;)

edyzmedieval
09-17-2005, 09:43
I'm very sure of that..... ~;)

player1
09-24-2005, 16:42
For BUG-FIXER lovers, I looked thorough "previously posted at TWC" (edited due to legal reasons) updated export_descr_unit.txt file from imperial campaign in BI expansion.


Here is how it influenced imperial campaign for BI:


Changes in export_descr_unit.txt file:

-Fixed the issue with all horse/camel/chariot archers, when they are unable to fire while skirmishing

Can't confirm, since it needs to be checked in the game, which I have not.
Due to reports in BI demo, I guess it is fixed


-Fixed the issue with Pontus and Scythian generals, when they would never get their bodyguards upgraded after Marius reforms (as it happens with all other bodyguard units)

Scythian general fixed, Pontic one isn't.
I guess we have material for new bug-fixer.


-Removed Wedge ability from both Thracian bodyguard units (made no sense for general's unit)

Fixed.


-Late Thracian bodyguard unit gets its armor rating increased from 3 to 6, so it would actually have different stats then early bodyguard, especially considering that it already uses heavier armored unit model

It got 9 armor points, and is now called armoured general.


-Removed shield bonus from early Thracian bodyguards and Bedouin Archers, since those units have no shields

Fixed. I'm proud that I guessed exact same unit cost in BUG-FIXER.


-Added shield bonus of 4 to late Pontic bodyguards, since their unit models have shield

Fixed, I guessed right cost too.


Pontic Phalanx Pikemen get its unit size increased from 40 to 60 and shield bonus reduced from 5 to 2, in order to make them consistent with other phalanx units

Unmodified.
I guess CA really ment them to be different then normal pikemen, in both stack and shield rating.
Although it doesn't explain why they use same skin and shield size as other pikes.
Or maybe not, haven't played the game...


-Fixed inconsistencies in mass ratings for following units: Bastarnae Mercenaries, Silver Shield Legionaries, Scutarii and Bull Warriors

Silver Shield Legionaries and Bull Warriors fixed (got mass of 1.3), others not.
I guess they ment to have Scutarii with lower rating (ok), while it's strange that Bastenae Merc didn't got touched.


-Fixed inconsistencies with effects on mounts for Armenian Heavy Spearmen and Illyrian and Sarmatian mercenaries

Seems fixed, also it seems that units use new format for anti-cavalry bonuses.


-Removed "annoying" blue officer from rebel Archer Warband

Not fixed!


-Sound of "armor" for Desert Axemen and Bastarnae Mercenaries changed from metal to flesh, since they wear no armor

Desert Axemen fixed (it even has lower armor rating of 3), Bastarnae Merc aren't touched.


Pre-1.2 bugs (not BUG-FIXER related):

Germanic Spear Warband is phalanx unit, but has secondary attack missing. Pre 1.2, it made them autorout outside phalanx formation.
Don't know will it function differently in BI.

.
.

So to sum up possible bugs left:
-Pontic pikemen exactly same as before (maybe not a bug, but a feature?)
-Pontus general not upgrading to later version
-Bastane Merc armor sound and mass rating inconsistant compared to Thracian Bastanae and Thracian Merc
-Annoying blue officer in rebel Archer Warband still living
-German warband phalanx has no secondary attack


Not bad, but enough to keep me from retiring.

player1
09-26-2005, 11:12
Stalin (the swedish guy with BI) posted this to my PM


Germanic Spear Warband is phalanx unit, but has secondary attack missing. Pre 1.2, it made them autorout outside phalanx formation.
Don't know will it function differently in BI

Hi,funny you should mention this, they are still killing stuff and don't autorout but it sure looks crap!
https://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namnls8sm.jpg
https://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namnls19mi.jpg
I can't seem to post in Colosseum

player1
09-26-2005, 11:26
By the way, I just realized even in 1.2, if you remove secondary attack that unit will behaive like this. Will still fight with full power, but with spears up and no swords.

player1
10-09-2005, 18:50
BI version of BUG-FIXER, will soon be relased.
It will mostly include fixes to BI campaign, plus a few important fixes for imperial campaign.

It will not include VnV and retinue fixes for imperial campaign.
Reason for this is that BI campaign VnV system is full of fixes and balance tweaks to problems that exited in original imperial campaign. On the other hand, VnV system for 1.3 version of imperial campaign is pretty close to unmoded 1.2.

So extracting most of those fixes from BI to imperial campaign is closer to a "porting" then "fixing", so it's tedious proccess. Maybe when I get more time it will be done.


For now, I still need to make documentation and maybe include a few most fixes, in order to get new BUG-FIXER released.

Puzz3D
10-09-2005, 19:57
Germanic Spear Warband is phalanx unit, but has secondary attack missing.
I'd suggest you leave the no secondary attack as is, and just remove the phalanx ability.

rebelscum
10-09-2005, 20:52
Please fix the seige bug where enemies approach walls and stand there when they have no seige equipment.

player1
10-09-2005, 21:15
I'd suggest you leave the no secondary attack as is, and just remove the phalanx ability.

Sorry, but for bug-fixer I'm playing conservatevly.
Which means unit working as it did in 1.2 (read: phalanx with dagger/sword as secondary weapon)

Otherwise you'll get different names galic warband, with for some reason bigger attack rating.

And model has both spear and sword skeletons for a reason.


Please fix the seige bug where enemies approach walls and stand there when they have no seige equipment.

Well, I have no idea how to fix something like that.
If it's not hardcoded, maybe some of formation gurus could help about that. I'm powerless about this issue.

player1
10-12-2005, 02:57
BUG-FIXER v2.00 relased.

See new official thread for details:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=55464