SPQR: Total War 2.0 Update Released!

[lt1956]

SPQR: Total War 2.0 Update released! I really recommend downloading this update if you installed and play SPQR!

Here is the link

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=23609

[steve]

what changes have been made or added?

[Puzz3D]

Are the changes just the two minor fixes and the new spites? That's not enough to possibly loose a campaign to a corrupted savegame. On the other hand, it would be necessary to have the latest version for compatibility with MP games.

[lt1956]

===== SPQR Total War: 2.0 updated====


1. fixed bug for Armenian Heavy Infantry CTD bug
2. fixed bug for Wondering map tile in campaign map.
3. The new version 1.2 CVP, fixes VnV bugs in RTW
4. New skins for Briton, Gaul, Germany Officers
5. New Sprites for Carthage, Romans, Egypt, Macedon, Greek Cities, Seleucid, Scythia.
6. New unit cards for the new Carthaginian Units
7. New Cavalry standards for Roman Cavalry, and Equites
8. Cost rebalance for all units for Multiplayer Battles.
9. longer Spears for Greek Cities phalanx units
10. Rebalanced Nubian Cavalry
11. Rebalanced Companion Cavalry
12. Increased number of Armenian Heavy Infantry
13. Moved diplomat for Gauls that was over an Army
14. Gave Garrisons, to 1 german, 1 carthage, 2 rebel cities
15. rebalanced Lybian Infantry, to lower stats. Poeni should be more powerful.
16. Removed Elephant Mercenaries from Greece and Sicily
17. Increased cost of Mercenary Elephants
18. Removed blacksmiths from factions that do not build chariots.
19. Added Onager to eastern catapult range building.


And spears for greeks are long now also. plus little things here and there, its really worth downloading just for the 2 bugs and sprites. They look good and increase performance.

Lt

[Puzz3D]

Historically, the hoplites (and I believe that includes the so called Royal Pikemen) didn't use the long pikes, but maybe it has to be so for gameplay reasons.

The cost changes for multiplayer are pretty dramatic. Some of these costs might not be optimally balanced, and the overall inflation of costs probably means 10k is not the optimal denari level for v2.0. I noticed the increase of basic archers from 190 denari to 500 denari. That seems like a fairly high cost for a unit that is ineffective shooting at infantry with shields, and not good in melee. Some of the MP'ers were asking for archers that could get some kills on shielded infantry.

The Nubian, Companion and cataphract cav seem to be in a better relative balance in v2.0.

[lt1956]

Online player did the balancing, I didnt work on that since I dont do MP. lol But there can always be a MP addon later if balancing doesnt work well. My understanding is 15k 20k 25k are the settings to be used for MP with SPQR now.

Hope that helps.

Lt

P.S. Arches can be deadly if used right, I use javelin for heavy infantry works good, after all arrows were not that effective during this period of time. I think its pretty good, I think CA's adjustment on shields made arrows a tad bit weaker than I had orginally before the patch, but there is no way to fix that without making it like a machinegun for unarmoured units. lol

Maybe the expansion will make things better? But then again the 1.2 patch gave us NEW bugs that personally I feel shouldnt have been there for the amount of time they had to work on it.

[Puzz3D]

I appreciate the attempt to rebalance the costs, but it appears to me that it was balanced within unit type but not across types. For example, the hastati became less expensive and the cataphract more expensive. That looks ok for hastati within the infantry as a group and for cataphract within the cav as a group, but the problem is that hastati beat cataphracts. So, why would the cost difference between these units increase? In general, cav was increased in cost relative to the low cost infantry, so, as a group, cav has become relatively less cost effective in v2.0. Also, is it correct that hastati or other relatively weak sword units beat the best cav units?

The same can be said of archers. As a group, they are more expensive relative to infantry and cav since the basic archer was increased so much in cost. They are fine relative to the elite archer now since there isn't much difference between basic archer and elite archer in shooting effectiveness. However, as a group, archers became more expensive without becoming more effective. The group as a whole probably should have been made less expensive relative to the other major groups by lowering the cost of elite archers rather than raising the cost of the basic archers since archers are not particularly effective. I understand the problem of the improved shields making is difficult to balance since archers could easily become too effective vs non-shielded troops, but right now there are no kills generated at all frontally on shielded troops. The players at .net who embraced SPQR for online play suggested a slight improvement so archers could get a few kills.

That brings out another issue. There were suggestions made by the .net players who were using and championing SPQR v1.0 for improving MP balance, but those ideas were ignored in v2.0 and now that support has been lost. Maybe you don't care, but I thought I'd mention it.

[lt1956]

Sorry I never read any suggestions for MP. where did they post? I'm not at all the forums.

MP is strickly for the benefit of the players because I Cant play MP online. So I would most likely try to help in that area if I could. As too archers I done the best I can do the 1.2 patch isnt my favorite and to be honest I thought of not ever using it. But I did and thats neither here or there.

As for them not wanting to play SPQR that is fine, The mod is made for me and shared with others. Most people that play games are children that within a few months get bored and quit playing. Example is RTR and SPQR the flip flop between the two is silly You cant like both styles of play because they are too different, and yet people go back and forth like yoyos next EB will be out and people will all dump SPQR and RTR to play it and claim how wonderful it is and the best thing since sliced bread, and then they will go to Spartan total warrior console game and so on down the road.

The ones left a year or two from now will be the ones who enjoy strategy and will enjoy the game playing as Rome other factions etc. Not saying that your a short term player, just saying the majority are. I have NO plans on ruinning my mod for people that just like to play a few hours and go to the next game.

There will always be people who like Just SPQR and other who like EB, RTR but the middle majority will go to all 3 for a time and then leave.

I am glad you had some fun with SPQR but if you get bored and dont like something there are MANY other good mods to play besides my little mod.

Lt

[Puzz3D]

Ok. Now I understand that SPQR isn't going to be balanced for multiplayer. BTW, the MP'ers you just wrote off are all 3 and 4 year verterans of Total War, and they were hoping to get SPQR accepted as the standard for major online tournaments. However, it's just not suitable in it's present form. They'll now proceed to make their own custom stat for MP. The recent discussions occured at www.totalwars.net.

[lt1956]

Tell you what. I have no problem in MP. let me know what you think is balanced. Tell me and I will add it. :-) I have no problem adding a NEW balancing to MP. Just no one from the MP community talked to me yet except you and that was just to ask why is this or that. lol

If you are willing to take the time to write me what you think should be balanced what I will add it. I promise. Its easy for me to do this. I just do not know how to really balance it for MP players because I dont play MP. So tell me WHAT you want and I can do that. its no problem. ~:)

I tried looking at totalwar.net but I couldnt find any links talking about SPQR the link swoosh gave wasnt there. So how am suppose to know? Trust me I wished I could play MP, but I have slow upload so the ms is bad.

Anyway, dont take the above as a right off, all I am saying is if you want it bad enough help me out and I will help you. ~;)

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Ok LT1956 pls check this topic on .net:

http://totalwars.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63304&sid=119a42e06dc9eeef0fb1dfcf727a946e#63304

It's about SPQR mod and got 12 pages of replies.

That means your mod really interests MP community.

So pls contact us in some way and have a check on our concerns. We just need a few balance tweaks for 1.0. Stronger cav, more effective archers and morale mainly. Othet than that it seems pretty good.

If you wish you can add me to msn: kyolic@hotmail.com

I can be the emissary for the community.

Or you can post on .net topic and contact community directly. Just as you wish. But pls reach us some way. We really liked the mod and if we are able to get the balance we are thinking of, that will bring many vets who left the game back. In some way it will save MP community. So pls :help:

~:)

[Wolf_Kyolic]

BTW if it says topic not there that means u have to register and logon to see it.

[Puzz3D]

LT1956,

RTW supports multiple stat files with a command line switch, so an MP stat for SPQR could be made that's separate from the SP stat if you think the requested MP changes alter the SP gameplay too much.

[lt1956]

See I was registered for a while but this is what I get when I try to read you post you say?

Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum.


I've been looking at ways to increase archers and aside from increasing attack AP has no effect on the shields you know, there will be no way except increasing ammunition and I was toying with making horse archers more powerful because of composite type bows.

Lt

I've already adjusted ammo count for archers to 80 and 120 for slingers, and made the -14 mount effect for slingers and archer for chariots and increased chariots hp a bit to make them worth the cost.

Let me know when I can read the thread.

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Dude just goto www.totalwars.net and see Recent Topics on left. It is called "Guys u really have to check this mod out!". Make sure you are logged in. If you don't see it in Recent Topics browse to "New Mods" forum:

http://totalwars.net/forum/viewforum.php?selected_id=f144

[Wolf_Kyolic]

Reach us already pls.

[lt1956]

I guess I had to post in that one thread to get access to the others, I found the stuff now.

Looks good.

Lt

[Puzz3D]

LT1956,

There is definitely a modified RTW 1.2 stat for MP being worked on that will be compatible with RTW v1.2. However, there is still interest in getting SPQR tuned up for MP.

I noticed something in SPQR v2.0. The cost adjustments are affecting the SP campaign, and I thought you said they were only intended for MP. I think this is throwing off the balance in the SP campaign. For instance, Equites at 750 seem unaffordable in the early campaign. Overall there is a big inflation in costs in SPQR v2.0.

[lt1956]

Yes I know, Good news is that Settings will be readjusted using your Online forums testers. I have already made progress on increasing effectiveness of archers etc. I uploaded the Alpha in your guys forum, I also have another alpha that has adjusted the greeks for Archer fire also.

So far in my test mele battles remain the same but Archers are much more effective like the first SPQR before CAs patch.

I also have a fix for the AI acting like cavalry. which I am working on to actually fix and not patch. lol Patch works so that means fix should work.

And with the rebel bug and a few more skins, MP balancing and price adjustment I think it will warrant a SPQR 2.1 :-) That way we will have a standard for MP. NO updates just full version, but I need to wait for Bandwidth etc and plus I still need your guys feedback. You find I work quick so my real work isnt effected. lol

Lt

[Turbo]

LT,

Have you given any thought to making a version of SPQR that uses large units instead of huge? SPQR is the best damn mod out there, but I see problems with the huge size in bridge battles and congestion when the AI assaults a town.

BTW, your use of temples and the restrictions on walls has made a big difference in play. As a modder myself, I continue to be impressed with the innovations you make in play. Keep it up!!

[lt1956]

Thank you, I just try to find something to make the game more fun and at time realistic. Also gameplay is important, and little changes can change things. Those ladders make it harder to defend a city now, because the AI always builds them even when they cant use them. lol So why keep walls that hurt game play and are insanely high for the period. lol

After all this isnt TROY tota war. lol

Lt

[Orda Khan]

First off Lt1956, I'd like to say thank you for your enthusiasm and readiness to try to balance your Mod for MP, something that you yourself are unable to play. I am sure you are aware by now that many TW Vets have been impressed with SPQR and can see the possibility of a game within RTW that resembles the gameplay they are used to. The MP community obviously has its own factions with regards to the different units but I am sure your Mod will please all but the very fussy MPer with only some small adjustments. Rest assured that people are mulling all this over and may not , in fact, be up to your speed but this is not due to apathy, that is for sure.

My own contribution, after playing SPQR [ v1.0 I must admit to not yet trying v2.0 ]

I am happy with the kill rate for missile units, in all fairness, against armoured units in a frontal attack I would expect the shield to offer good protection. Perhaps maybe a bit weaker than it is at present but no great shakes, HA units should attempt flank and rear attacks for maximum kills but in saying that, I would expect the armoured unit to lose maybe a few more men than it does now.

Barbarian factions should have stronger cav units. I feel the Roman factions have far too many 'strong' units and their cav should be weakened to more accurately represent the poor cav they actually possessed [ if their cav can handle the best that barbarians can muster, what chance for the lesser infantry that barbarians have? ]

That is my small suggestion, apart from a few new sprites which are always a nice surprise ~;)

.......Orda

[lt1956]

I'm working on the cavalry for otehr factions being stronger. Also archers do some damage now but heavy shielded units still take very few casualties.

I also adjusted a few other things also. I think its getting close, then We can rebalance MP costs which effect everything the most. Then I will release SPQR once again under version 3.0 so ALL MP players have the latest version to play, unless there are any bugs I am sure that will be the last SPQR version, but I plan on adding some news skins etc for other factions.

Next project is the Late Republic.

Lt

P.S. You should help me out and test the alpha over at the .net. lol but you need to download 2.0 its wroth it to help improve the MP game, no?