Best Unit in the game? [Archive]

katank

03-20-2005, 03:24

With the 1.2 phalanx fix, they are more deadly than ever. However, they still remain horribly vulnerable to missiles and die in droves when hit by archer fire.

I personally vote for the humble spear warband as best unit due to the low tech requirement and raw combat power derived for the cost. Also note that lack of a secondary means they always stay in phalanx.

Wishazu

03-20-2005, 03:41

Kaldhore

03-20-2005, 04:56

I just did a test, custom battle 1v1
Huge Units
Spartan v Urban Cohort.

I did 4 tests

Long phalanx formation for Spartans
Short *Square* Phalanx
No Phalanx Formation
Phalanx till flanked then standard.

I played the spartans for each battle.
Urban Cohort won 3 out of 4 times, and even then the spartans were down to 25 men.

So although I'd like to agree that spartans are the best.....Looks like the Urban Cohort stands up pretty well.

Kekvit Irae

03-20-2005, 15:20

For raw statistical power, Spartans beat out nearly anything.
For power in numbers, you cannot beat the Spear Warband. That's how I conquered the world playing at Germania until I discovered the joys of the Chosen Archers and the Gothic Cavalry. A barbarian phalanx you can build right off the bat. Yummy. :happyg:

Craterus

03-20-2005, 16:41

best spearmen=spartan hoplites
best infantry=urban cohort/bastarnae mercenaries
best cavalry=cataphracts/armoured elephants/ sarmatian mercenaries
best missile unit=pharoahs bowmen
best missile cavalry=horse archers
best general=eastern general

those are my opinions on the best units in the game, thats my dream army!

Alien of Germania

03-20-2005, 18:06

1. Spearwarband
2. Gothic Cavalry
3. Barbarian Cavalry and Choosen Axemen

think im playing with Germania too much ehehehe... ~;)

Craterus

03-20-2005, 18:48

maybe just a bit too much germania.. lol
i do like warband - they are resilient troops!

Arrowhead

03-20-2005, 19:45

best missile unit=pharoahs bowmen

How dare you! Have I not repeated, time and time again, that the FORESTER WARBAND is the best archer unit! :angry:

HAIL to all who choose Germania or Gaul!

The Stranger

03-20-2005, 19:46

**** you, the spartans rules (oh my go, here we go again)

Craterus

03-20-2005, 20:04

i prefer pharoh's bowmen, they wear armour as well and they have huge range!

Lochar

03-20-2005, 20:35

I havent played the customer battles much, and so far all I have played is the romans and now the selucids. Granted it was AI, but 2 milita hoplite units held their ground and decimated a spartan unit. I am still gearing toward the elite phalanx unit that selucid has so I havent gone head to head with other elite units yet.

Its funny tho as rome, I rarely if ever used town milita, but as selucid, it was the main componetn of my armies for awhile and while I have gotten levy pikeman and now the phalanx pikeman, they still exist in my armies as I cant bring myself to disband veteran units.

Altho I have noticed what gives rome its best advantage is wall combat, here the pikes cant be used as the secondary weapons just dont cut it.

EvilNed

03-20-2005, 20:38

Armoured elephants! Tremble as they run into everything and everyone and just let loose. They are like a hulky guy in jail: Everyone wants to be them, but noone wants to have them ontop of you.

AntiochusIII

03-20-2005, 20:55

Armoured elephants! Tremble as they run into everything and everyone and just let loose. They are like a hulky guy in jail: Everyone wants to be them, but noone wants to have them ontop of you.

Hannibal would've heeded this advice well before Zama. ~D

For me...

Phalanx: Hard choice...Spartan are the best but my conscience says that I just love how a long, unbreakable Silver Shield line looks - so they get my vote.

Infantry: Urban Cohort! They can beat Spartans and stop Elephant charge! What a cheat the Romans get them.

Elephants: Yubtseb elephants. Look that the size of THAT!

Archer: Forester Warbands are best in stats...but I like how Pharoah's Bowmen looks. The only unit in Egypt I ever like.

Cavalry: Companions. They may not be as heavy as cataphracts but they are sharp like a blade when they cut through enemy lines...they look cool too. With the feature thing and all...

Missile Cavalry: Cataphract Archers. Why Parthia doesn't have them is a mystery. These world-conquering bane of Urban Cohort. ~D

katank

03-20-2005, 22:16

i say spartans too. i disagree with the arrows thing, whenever i use greek hoplite troops they only suffer from archer fire if it is coming from their unprotected rear, anywhere else and my casualties are allways negligable. however, regular skirmishers using pila/javelins etc. are far more effective against a hoplite phalanx.

This is not true for Spartans. Regular hoplites have about 7 armor compared to Spartan's 3. The Spartans do have 2 HP but with 2-3 regular archers focus firing on them, they get decimated before they even hit the battleline.

Besides, even if they are still standing, they are a lot less tough since often they survive with only one HP remaining and are no longer supermen.

Sam Adams

03-21-2005, 09:45

armored elephants are clearly the best overall... they do everything and kill everything. They even batter wooden down doors for you!

failing that...

urbans. Not only are they tough, they get to throw two javelins and slaughter crap even before enganging. Plus they are way more mobile that phalanxs. Not quite as invincible on defense as a refused line of phalanxes supported by archers... but way way better on offensive and in cities.

Shadar

03-21-2005, 13:28

Tossup between Urban Cohort and Spartans.

however, in the end, i would say Urban Cohort. I've done testing that those two pila make a HUGE difference between winning and losing. add some really damn nice stats and you've got an almost unstoppable unit against most infantry unless heavily heavily outnumbered. Then they can still do decently well!

Romeus Petrus

03-21-2005, 20:04

Actually the Spartans will beat the urban cohorts every time if they stay in the Phalanx formation, and will pretty much beat anything else with or without the phalanx including heavy cavalry. I agree though, it is a tough call between the two.

Craterus

03-21-2005, 20:13

i like royal pikemen as well as Spartans...
sorry i take back what i said about the pharohs bowmen.. forester warband are indeed better! i haven't played with them as much as pharohs bowmen..

Es Arkajae

03-21-2005, 20:22

I have a soft spot in my heart for the mighty Spanish Bull Warrior.

It has only half the defence of an Urban but it has 2 hit points so it more than makes up for that, it has one less point of attack however with warcry it gets a big bonus (its +4 isn't it?) which is improved further in woods with another bonus. It also has a higher charge bonus (5 as opposed to 4).

Like the Urban it is fast, it has only slightly less stamina (good instead of very good) and it also has excellent morale.

It's also buildable much earlier than an Urban Cohort.

Craterus

03-21-2005, 20:27

they are really great mercenaries i agree... they aren't always availabel to recruit though ~;) ~:)

Mikeus Caesar

03-21-2005, 20:58

best infantry=urban cohort/bastarnae mercenaries

Those bastardized mercenaries are great!! Whenever i'm losing a battle, and i have nearly no men left except for a unit of bastardized mercenaries or their counterparts, thracian mercs, then they are just great for throwing in there and getting you a phyrric victory. They just carve through the enemy ranks. I once had a 37 man unit of them, and they killed half of a 300 strong rebel army. That is how good they are. They're almost as good as rodeo singers (rhodisian slingers).

Wishazu

03-21-2005, 20:59

This is not true for Spartans. Regular hoplites have about 7 armor compared to Spartan's 3. The Spartans do have 2 HP but with 2-3 regular archers focus firing on them, they get decimated before they even hit the battleline.

Besides, even if they are still standing, they are a lot less tough since often they survive with only one HP remaining and are no longer supermen.

i still dissagree mate,ive never played anything other than greece online(except for egypt once or twice) and as soon as the enemy sees my spartans they unleash everything they have at them(missile wise) and my boys allways shrug it off :)

Es Arkajae

03-21-2005, 21:08

they are really great mercenaries i agree... they aren't always availabel to recruit though ~;) ~:)

What?

Spanish Bull Warriors are a unique Spanish unit mate, they're not a mercenary unit.

Craterus

03-22-2005, 17:59

u can recruit a merc unit like them if you are in spain.. i forget their merc name... i think it's spanish mercenaries ~;)

katank

03-22-2005, 19:03

i still dissagree mate,ive never played anything other than greece online(except for egypt once or twice) and as soon as the enemy sees my spartans they unleash everything they have at them(missile wise) and my boys allways shrug it off :)

That depends on upgrades. Spartans are quite vulnerable to missiles as their defense skill is about 11 IIRC and they have crazy attack. They are practically invincible in melee but die to lowly archers.

In Macedonian campaign, I maul the Spartan hop with just the 2 starting archers. By the time they hit my lines, there was about 25 left (majority with 1 HP). Triple shot militia hop wall delayed them and then 2 peltasts threw in a volley, a quick cav charge and they were all dead. I lost about 1 unit of militia hops and that was it.

Old Celt

03-22-2005, 21:00

I think Spartans are the best overall infantry unit. People like to make comparisons to Urbans by saying they beat Spartans in 1 on 1 battles, but that doesn't prove overall effectiveness with multiple units in battle, and that's where it really counts. Skilled players can defeat Urbans with Spartans, and they do. Besides, Urbans are very nearly a fantasy unit. Yes there were some, but very few, and as far as I know, they were responsible for absolutely no major victories in real life combat. The Spartans were the real thing.

I hate to admit it, but probably the best overall cavalry unit is the stinkpot Desert Cavalry. They beat Praetorians and Companions, and even Cataphracts in actual battles. They aren't flashy or expensive, but they absolutely kill all other horse units except Head Hunting Maidens, which give them a close run. They aren't suited for attacking formed infantry, but they deal very well with other cavalry. That being said, I hate that they derive their advantages from inflated unit size and armor piercing weapons. And I hate the Egyptians, too!

I think Pharoah's Bowmen are the best archers. They have better melee stats than the middle or even top tiered infantry of many civs. They have excellent range, good morale, and are just generally very obnoxious. I hate the Egyptians! Foresters are okay, but Gaul rarely survives long enough to actually field them.

Es Arkajae

03-23-2005, 05:00

u can recruit a merc unit like them if you are in spain.. i forget their merc name... i think it's spanish mercenaries ~;)

Spanish Mercenaries are crap compared to Bull Warriors, you may as well compare Hastati to Urban Cohorts.

Methinks you have no clue what you're talking about mate. ~;)

Bhruic

03-23-2005, 05:19

Spartans? Give me a 1:1 ration on plain old horse archers and I'll take on as many Spartans as you want to field. And that's not even pulling out Scythian Nobles or Cataphract Archers. Spartans may be impressive when you are facing another infantry heavy army, but if you know you are going against Spartans, why would you do that? ~;)

Bh

Someone Stupid

03-23-2005, 09:42

peasants - they eat up a ton of population (cheaply) in those dire times that one of your cities just decides to surprise you with a revolt thanks to a poor and drunk gov with a small garrison.

Kaldhore

03-23-2005, 09:49

Urbans maybe a fantasy unit, but all the units are fantasy really. And theyre in the game. And this is a thread about the best unit in the game. And whoever sadi that Urbans cant beat a spatan in phalanx mode - aint tested it well.

Horse Archers have gotta be the most annoying unit in the game, or wardogs :P

Old Celt

03-23-2005, 15:18

Best can mean many things, but no unit is designed to do every job on the battlefield. So, it is probably better to consider each arm of the military when making such comparisons: infantry, cavalry, missiles, artillery, special forces.

Horse archers cannot defeat Spartans in the hands of a competent Greek player. They can easily take the infantry out of phalanx and rotate them as needed to keep the shield bearing on the horse archers line of fire. The horse archers will run out of arrows without having killed many Spartans or routing them. Online battles of this sort, involving many units will end up with the Greek side pressing the HAs into a corner for orderly disposal, (if the HA player doesn't just quit after running out of arrows).

But as I mentioned in the first paragraph, different arms do different jobs. Infantry isn't designed, nor expected for the most part to chase down and destroy cavalry. I think it is only fair in the rock, paper, scissors game, to compare rocks to rocks, paper to paper, etc.

Spartan117300

03-23-2005, 16:03

best infantry unit in the game is the spartans bar none, ive sen them get surrounded, hit in the rear by cav, pelted with fire pots, arrows and javalins, you name it and theyve defeated it. historically and in the game, those guys are the best, end of discussion, as for bowmen........ok, lemme give ya a scenario here, i was defending a greek city while playting online, i had one ally who was greek and we played against 3 egyptians, we blocked the roads with phalanxes and every once in a while sent our cav out to attck any weakspots we noticed, i sent 400 cav against 160 bowmwn, my cav was wiped out...

Arrowhead

03-23-2005, 22:09

i like royal pikemen as well as Spartans...
sorry i take back what i said about the pharohs bowmen.. forester warband are indeed better! i haven't played with them as much as pharohs bowmen..

^Thank you, friend, someone actually realised!

GO FORESTERS

Old Celt

03-23-2005, 22:59

Arrowhead:

Pharoahs -
Attack/Range: 14, 170
Mellee Attack/Charge: 9, 4
Defense: 13

Forresters -
Attack/Range: 15, 170
Mellee Attack/Charge: 11, 8
Defense: 8

Pharoah's Bowmen have superior defense, equal range, and a bonus when fighting in their native desert. They have lower melee attack values, but in primary respect of archery and defense, PBs are clearly superior.

Arrowhead

03-24-2005, 09:00

Your forgetting that foresters are fast,can hide anywhere and are very hardy.
And I think pharoahs are slower with more defence to stand taking more hits.
Chosens are in between with a weaker range.

n00bicus

03-24-2005, 14:06

Scythian noble archers. Strong versatile and cheap.
Also, German spear warband.

Mountaindew

03-25-2005, 07:59

Mmmmm...it seems like the sad reality is, that there is no best unit in the game. if there was, then everyone will be exploiting them, and it will pretty much be used everywhere, and no one else would want to use anything else. the game, and all strategy games are created such that ALL UNITS will have strengths, but WILL have weaknesses. spartans, cohorts, chosens, bowmen and elephants have been thrown around this forum, hailed to be the best unit, however, someone is still able to successfully identify its flaws-from flanking, archery, speed, mobility, flexibility, and cost. It just goes to show that no unit is the best, or perfect. it is the combination of certain units that makes an ARMY, close to invincibility and immortality much much closer than just a single unit.

HOWEVER, i place my bet on ARMOURED ELEPHANTS to close to the 'best' unit the game, since NO UNIT (apart from from the pigs) are capable of defeating it singlehandedly without being crushed under elephant feet itself.

Craterus

03-26-2005, 01:07

its the simple concept of rock paper scissors..
all units are strong against one type of unit but weak against another!
bla bla bla etc.

imdWALRU5

04-04-2005, 18:13

SPARTANS ALL THE WAY!!!

Cataphracts are cool too

Craterus

04-04-2005, 18:35

I like Cataphracts, but my favourite unit has to be Egyptian Chariot Archers..

I'll take on a unit of Spartans one on one with Chariot Archers any day.

Count Belisarius

04-05-2005, 13:27

Without breaking my 'favorites' down by unit type, I'd have to go with Cataphracts. They're not as fast as Companions, they're not as much fun to watch as Armoured Elephants (in R:TW anyway, elephants are much more realistic in R:TR), and they're not as hardy as Spartans. However, that superlative armour gives them great staying power in prolonged hand-to-hand combat, a weakness of the Companions. They are functionally invulnerable to arrow fire, they're fast enough to run around the flank of a phalanx, and the sheer weight and killing power of all that armour makes for a nearly invincible charge. I have had them chopped up pretty good by spiked chariots, but that and elephants are their only weaknesses. Plus, you have to look at accessibility and maintenance cost: you can crank them out with a Level 3 [edit] stable, and they cost a mere 140 denarii (I think) to maintain! This makes them easy to retrain and cheap to have boatloads of them in your order of battle.

katank

04-06-2005, 01:43

Cataphracts are level 3 stables. They are indeed 890/140 and trains in a turn.

As for spartans, they are quite overrated when facing missiles, especially ones they can't catch.

There is no way they can pin horse archers into a corner and a competent HA user would make it impossible to have you facing them. Arrows will be coming in from all sides and they will continually shift towards your shieldless side, causing the units to involuntarily turn and gradually get destroyed.

Chosen archer bands don't have less range. All second level archers have 170 range. Foresters used to be worse than PB due to the primary secondary bug giving PBs an edge in melee but this is no longer the case. So what if PBs get a bonus in the desert? Foresters get bonus in snow and woods too IIRC.