View Full Version : Stop Bashing please!
Hello there,
as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.
Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.
Sure places like these forums are great for suggesting new ideas and improvements and for discussing RTW. but i have read many topics just plain bashing the hell out of the game with out weighing up the good points with the bad.
RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!
I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.
So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.
Beefy! ~:cheers:
Batangueno
03-31-2005, 18:29
Greetings Beefy,
People have different expectations of the game. Some people expect the game to put up a good challenge for the human mind. Others want it to be bug-free to get their money's worth. Others are fine with some bugs. Other people play the game the way it was made (buggy or not).
IMHO, it would be difficult to change other people's expectations as it would be difficult for other people to change your level of expectation.
Annoying as it may be, there is nothing that can be done other than to keep quiet and try not to feel miserable.
Just try to play the game the way you want to play the game.
Cheers.
Bat
~:)
Benny Moore
03-31-2005, 18:40
Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.
I was going to lay into you for this, but on reconsidering, perhaps you mean well. However, I think you should reconsider your position on this! If at least two of the major bugs have really not affected you, then I cannot consider you more than a casual gamer with a passing interest in Rome: Total War, attracted by the graphics.
For instance, I have never noticed the loadgame bug which everyone is complaining about. As far as I've been concerned, it doesn't affect me. However, if what people have been saying is true, it is affecting me greatly and I do not know it. In short, people are saying that the loadgame bug is responsible for many of the problems that I do notice (bad campain artificial intelligence, for one), even if I don't make the connection.
Byzantine Prince
03-31-2005, 18:47
This is the best game I have ever played. Please don't flame it or I'll smack you on floor.
Mikeus Caesar
03-31-2005, 18:47
I have to agree with beefy. Don't bash the game. But before people start screaming at me 'BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LOADGAME BUG!! YOU STUPID NOOB!!1!' i want to say that i have never experienced the loadgame bug because i still play on vanilla RTW. And as for the incompetent AI? I can live with that. After all, how many other games come this close to being a worthy Strategy game set in this time period, hm? None. If you were to look at all the other games in this market, you would probably realise that RTW is at the top of it's market!!
Sure, there are a few bugs, but this game is still good.
I love this game.
Still, I critique CA staff for load/save bug, which does affect my play stay.
Many other bugs I could fix by little moding, but not this beast. It needs hotfix ASAP.
tai4ji2x
03-31-2005, 19:07
again this is the typical reaction. people annoyed by so-called "bashers" never seem to look into the argument beyond the surface level. most of the "bashers" actually love the game - they see the potential, the depth, and the hard work that obviously DID go into it. what frustrates these "bashers" is things like the alleged "two patch policy", and now the attitudes of many of the staff and forum moderators towards customer concerns, amongst other things.
This is as silly as a hypothetical situation where I would forbid you to ever read those threads again. Read what you like, skip the rest. As long as it's within forum rules and within resonable expectations of a civil discourse, and all the while nobody is twisting your arm to read anything, everybody is free to read and post what they feel like at the time.
I simply love the game, as i loved it's predecessor (sorry, never got around to playing shogun)
Bash the game all you want, just make sure you back it up with valid reasons. I don't want to see forums full of "This game sucks!" posts, it's a waste of everyone's time and accomplishes nothing. Constructive criticism, with facts and explanations, gives the other readers a chance to counter or suggest improvements, and will probably get more attention from the lurking developers ~;) . This is a "forum", not a graffiti wall.
It's been stated before. R:TW was an ambitious project, with the potential of being a superb game. It just needed more time to tweak and test. This fact bodes well for the expansion pack, where CA are probably throwing most of their time. If they are just adding skins and models, other game issues can be corrected. Hopefully CA will do a public beta for the XP, to better work out the kinks (this should have been done for R:TW in the first place, Activision's QA job leaves something to be desired).
Shambles
03-31-2005, 20:44
I take it you never played The other Total War games Beefy,
Give them a go Then come back and tell me Rome TW is worth The money i payed for it,
Cos Honestly.
Its not worth £1 or $0.50
It has trrrible balanceing of troops,
You can stack all Your people on top of each other Defying laws of physics,
Wether Is non existant With no penalty for archers In rain.
The graphics are the only mitigating part of the game, Which in turn makes it un playable on older sytems, So even though Its techically a good thing, It also SUX.
The game Has Useless AI and Theres Bearly any reason to play It online,
Honestly
the game SUX compared to the rest of the TW serise,
and your better off Buying STW for like $5 Than Paying for that Gloryfied paper weight that you call Rome TW
Please feel free To corect me politley, if you can
But honestly,
Theres nothing to defend :duel:
Craterus
03-31-2005, 21:07
Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.
RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!
I completely agree, some of the negative "bashing" on this site even began to put me off playing RTW...
Count Belisarius
03-31-2005, 21:50
It's been stated before. R:TW was an ambitious project, with the potential of being a superb game. It just needed more time to tweak and test. This fact bodes well for the expansion pack, where CA are probably throwing most of their time.
Exactly! R:TW IS a hugely ambitious project. I have said it before, and I will say it again: the game was presented prematurely, and is being supported indifferently. But S:TW/MI and M:TW/VI were superlative games in their time, and I have faith in CA that they will correct R:TW's shortcomings sooner or later. I, for one, am patient enough to wait it out. I will buy the expansion immediately upon release and try to offer constructive suggestions to any CA programmer or TW modder who reads my few posts.
To all you "I'm-gonna-smash-my-CDs" bashers out there: why don't you let your pocketbooks do your talking for you instead of clogging up these boards with your mindless blathering? Just don't buy any more TW products and go away. Like my mother always said: if you can't say something nice . . . shut the F&%K up!
The game's complexity is an entire order of magnitude beyond just about any other game out there. From a designer/programmer perspective (not that I am either one), you have to combine the Myth: Fallen Lords type tactical combat engine (on a MUCH larger scale) with a strategic turn-based game (I'm drawing a blank here: Civ maybe?). Essentially, you're writing two games, with two AI's, two sets of priorities, folding the tactical AI in with the strategic AI and vice versa, and all of this with multiple "players" (factions) playing all at once.
Couple all that with new, more detailed strategic movement, more advanced cultural interfaces, an increase in the importance of naval power, and a rather sophisiticated diplomatic interface, you have quite the project. It's enormously complex, but that's the beauty of the TW games.
As if the programming challenges weren't enough, CA also has to satisfy all (or at least most) of the history geeks (of which I am one) who complain about things like not being able to make a phalanx advance at the run, or the wrong style of helmets on some fabulously-detailed soldier or other. YOU try getting a computer programmer to talk to a history geek. It's like trying to teach algebra to a fish.
Patience, my friends, patience. CA rushed R:TW into production without sufficient beta testing, and has done a poor job of patching up holes in the game. But remember: they created the TW system, and for that we should be grateful. You should not be thinking "What has CA done for me lately?"
Where there are people, there will be critics.
Where there are forums, there will be flamers.
Beefy,
I will be glad to "put on a happy face" when I see CA improve their customer service and follow through with a commitment to support their products and patch major bugs.
The Load/save bug is not a minor bug. Suggest you read the extensive thread on it before putting on horse blinders.
1dread1lahll
03-31-2005, 22:16
I just came in to bash and flame Beefy; got to admire a person that can be as loyal as a good dog.
Benny Moore
03-31-2005, 22:48
i want to say that i have never experienced the loadgame bug because i still play on vanilla RTW. And as for the incompetent AI? I can live with that.
The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.
Also, the incompetent artificial intelligence is caused, in part, by the loadgame bug. It's not altogether a seperate issue.
I doubt that anything will change in the way CA developes their games. That means no public beta, and lots of pressure on the programmers to meet deadlines. Then a post release patch to address all the oversights which won't be entirely successful. The end result being a spectacular game in which basic stuff doesn't work properly. The consequence of which is it's not worth putting a lot of thinking into playing it because the gameplay will defy logic which won't matter to most of the people who buy the game. I have to give CA good marks on game stability because RTW rarely CTD's. If it wasn't stable, no one would be talking about gameplay issues.
Shambles
03-31-2005, 22:57
Actualy RTW is often reported as Crashing to desk top,
And when ppl ask me what to do I simply say.
Throw it away and get shogun or MTW
Pausanias828
03-31-2005, 23:15
Well for my part, I have enjoyed the game to a certain degree, but was really expecting more out of it. I still play most days, although I have been playing more with mods than vanilla, plus I have just bought and started playing HoI 2, as well as devoting more time to Dark Throne.
On a side note, Bat, is that you from .com, I hope so, as your message has the same style to it. Regardless of that, welcome to the .org whoever you are. If it is you from the .com though, how are you, I hope you and your family are well. I haven't spent much time there in the last month, as I am spending more time here, and at the twc, as well as a few other Forums. :bow:
starkhorn
03-31-2005, 23:19
again this is the typical reaction. people annoyed by so-called "bashers" never seem to look into the argument beyond the surface level. most of the "bashers" actually love the game - they see the potential, the depth, and the hard work that obviously DID go into it. what frustrates these "bashers" is things like the alleged "two patch policy", and now the attitudes of many of the staff and forum moderators towards customer concerns, amongst other things.
Yeah this is how I feel as well. People love the game and try to help CA by providing testing results and advice. All they get is silence for weeks from CA only to be told by CA that there is no bug and a moderator saying that it's the players fault as we choose to reload.
That's what makes me mad. I love the game but it should be better and no response and lack of customer feedback from CA is what leads to the majority of anger and frustration imho.
Cheers
Starkhorn
Batangueno
03-31-2005, 23:28
Greetings Pausanias,
Yep! its me. The same old Bat. I just thought I'd register here instead of lurk. Aurelius' post at Duck's pond reminded me to register here.
Thank you for asking about my family. I hope your family is well too. .COM is taking a lot of my time these days. But when I have time, I'll drop by here once's in a while.
Cheers.
Bat
~:)
Well what a response!
Im allowed to say my feeling on these forums thats the point of them, just like many of you guys have done. Nothing is going to change my feelings though. I have never expereinced a CTD. my online play is good, and the loadbug? doesnt bother me! why go looking for major errors in a game that you have just payed £40 for? It may affect my game, but i dont let it rule my life!
OMFG a bug! dear lord! complain complain, boo hiss!
No point, just point it out! and hopefullyt CA will do something about it! but how long this game been out? not that long?
but i suppose ive done my 2 cents, think what you may, agree, disagree im not bothered! as long as you appreciate the effort that was put into this game, and the quality is pocceses!
Beefy
I would like to extend a warm welcome to Bat as I have the most respect for him out of all the .com mods. Your dedication to reasoned neutrality is one of the bright spots in that place, and I sincerely hope that you find the .org a good place to relax and talk about the TW games that you love enough to volunteer so much of your life to such a thankless task. I for one promise to never cross quote you between the org and the com, so that you can feel free to express opinions here that might be out of place coming from a mod on the .com
On topic, there is a distinct difference between bashing and criticism. I will never apologize for having high expectations from CA after the stellar work they did with STW and MTW. To encounter in RTW a game that can't even save properly is a crushing disappointment, compounded by steadfast refusal to deal with the issue. I feel as a consumer that I have a legitimate right to be upset, and I will continue to be. Sorry if that offends.
BeeSting
04-01-2005, 00:27
It is a customer’s prerogative to criticize the product he/she bought. I deal daily with customers not satisfy with this or that about the service, price, or the product itself. Regardless of how unreasonable they may be, I give them the satisfaction of the fact that I will attempt to fix the problem and keep them happy. Leaving clients in the dark is the worst possible customer service, ever. My motto, knowing what the each clients want, that is, wanting to feel that each are not just one of our thousands or millions of clients, let them know that their concerns are my concerns and make them feel as though each are my only clients. But the success of the industry I’m in is highly geared toward costumer service unlike other kinds of industries, which largely depends their success on product quality and reliability. So asking for such attention might be too much. Nevertheless the principle of customer service applies across the line for all industries. All have to follow through their words and answer the cries of their costumers the best they could. Nothing is perfect and I realize that, so no one is crying for a spotless bug free product off the shelves, save for the fact that if they encounter a problem during use, help should be provided, if it can be answered off the bat then at least fixes should be promised. They should not be left in the dark as CA did to us for whatever reasons. for they are entitled to at least some direction or a promise that the repeated complaints are being addressed and worked on. But what have we heard after the second patch? Nothing but nothing but silence after silence. Oh, I forgot, we did hear something in the line of, “Look, there isn’t a single game like ours out there so you should stop whining.” Why am I so upset by this sort of response? As if I do not possess the cognitive skill and insight to already know this. Oh, excuse me, my apologies for offending the demigods of CA! I just happened to be a sensitive strategy game player whose sole interest is to maximize and prolong the enjoyment of your product. And this is still considered a strategy game isn’t it? Or am I the only one who is unchallenged by its level of, dare I say, artificial intelligence and countless bugs that plague this game? I should just shut up and keep to myself and blindly wait another 2 years for something better to descend from the high dwelling place of CA staffs, as if it were an answer to my fervent prayers, out of humility and gratefulness. Something is backwards here.
We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy costumers!
BobTheTerrible
04-01-2005, 00:40
Hello there,
as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.
Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played.
Seriously, be careful saying that around these parts. I started up a similar topic a while ago, and I was pretty much banished from the forums. People automatically assume you're a new player, and thus stupid or unworthy for liking the game.
I hold very similar views. I think RTW is an awesome game. I am ticked about their patching policy and the amount of bugs, but that doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the game. Most people wanted RTW to be a MTW 2 of sorts (myself, admittedly, included) but it's not. Most people here didn't adapt (I'm not flaming)
The reason, quite frankly, that you see everyone here bashing RTW is that all the people who like it, have left these forums.
should just shut up and keep to myself
Quite honestly, I think you should. Not many around here still like the game, and I think you'll find yourself in a losing battle. It's all an opinion, and I found out the hard way there's no arguing opinion.
BeeSting
04-01-2005, 01:06
Ignorance is bliss.
Pausanias828
04-01-2005, 01:26
Greetings Pausanias,
Yep! its me. The same old Bat. I just thought I'd register here instead of lurk. Aurelius' post at Duck's pond reminded me to register here.
Thank you for asking about my family. I hope your family is well too. .COM is taking a lot of my time these days. But when I have time, I'll drop by here once's in a while.
Cheers.
Bat
~:)
Yeah I can understand that it keeps you busy, I have popped back a few times recently, but not for very long. Keep up the good work there.
As for my family, well after all the problems of last year, this year (so far at least) seems to be much better.
I saw Aurelius' post as well, a couple of days ago, has he actually hit the big 10 post yet?
Anyway, hope to see you around a bit more. ~:)
[QUOTE=BobTheTerrible]Seriously, be careful saying that around these parts. I started up a similar topic a while ago, and I was pretty much banished from the forums. People automatically assume you're a new player, and thus stupid or unworthy for liking the game.
Exactly how were you "banished" Bob? What BS.
Unlike the .COM that is run facist style, the .ORG encourages open speech and differences in opinion. If you want to complain about censorship, talk to the moderators/admins over at the .COM.
Swordsman
04-01-2005, 02:35
I have accepted that every game published will be bugged to some degree. I don't like it, but I have accepted it. What separates the bad from the good (and the great) is how the game is supported AFTER it hits the streets.
Two examples:
1. "Domination", the sequel to "Massive Assault", just came out a couple of weeks ago. Has a couple of very annoying bugs-- not "game killers", but still a problem. They just issued a patch today.
2. "World at War" just came out this week-- per DEVELOPER on forum, they already are nearing release of a patch to fix some "annoying"-category issues (stats, AI, gameplay).
Meanwhile, RTW is basically out of luck. It MIGHT be fixed in the XP (many months away). The cumulative effect of all the bugs/features/imbalances is what bothers me-- not just any particular one. And much appears to be hard-coded. For everyone that loves vanilla RTW-- that's great, although I personally feel you are not getting the game experience you THINK you are because of all the "under the hood" problems. For everyone that is disappointed-- I daresay all would be forgiven if they would just keep popping out patches to address the significant, non-moddable, problems-- like MANY developers do. For some reason they just don't get it. When the XP comes along I will probably wait a month or so until all the experts on this forum get a chance to assess whether it really is an improvement before I buy it. Hope it doesn't just take all the old bugs and replace them with new, improved ones. :dizzy2:
Until then, I'll get my fix with MTW and the ton of GREAT mods that exist for it.
Swordsman
BobTheTerrible
04-01-2005, 03:54
Exactly how were you "banished" Bob? What BS.
Well I didn't mean banished in the literal sense. Sorry, I usually don't use smileys in my text, there would have been a winking one right there. The .org is the most mature and tolerant total war forum I know. Although my reception to saying I thought the game was good enough to be considered a finished product (as opposed to a beta, as most people around here refer to it) wasn't exactly friendly, and ended up causing a notice for conduct appearing on the forums. I can't seem to find it, I think it's too old; the name of the thread was "In beta?" I think it ended up getting closed down.
I'm sorry that my post sounded too harsh and accusative, I didn't mean it like that... but to tell the truth I've been reluctant to post here ever since that incident, which is why I said "banished." I immediately saw the topic title, and realized this would quickly turn into another "customer support/buggy game/poor AI" thread.
This was just an informative post. Please, please, please nobody respond to this at all. I really don't feel like arguing or having this turn into a flame thread. If you want to say anything, don't do it here, because I will not be responsible for more flames. Send me a private message if anything. On a side note, I do think I owe the .org members an apology for my previous post(s).
Red Harvest
04-01-2005, 06:48
I see this thread and the others like it as more of a "live and let live" thing. I've not posted before in this thread because I don't see any reason to tell someone they shouldn't like the game, etc. If they like it as is, terrific. I'm glad they enjoy it. Wish I could, too.
I will argue heavily over demonstrable points of fact, but this thread is wholly an opinion thing, one purely of opinion/perception with no way to prove or disprove the original point. I post both pro and con about features in a game. My interest is in accuracy, not touchy-feely opinions.
Most "bashing" threads are oriented towards bug reports and frustration with the final state of the game. It has been 3 weeks since I played a real campaign turn. I keep thinking, "Tonight, I'll start a new one with yet more mods to fix broken parts of the 'final' game." Instead, I end up reading a book, testing some quirky RTW feature, or researching some aspect of history.
I will say one thing, if I titled a thread, "Stop Praising please!" it would look rather silly and pointless... (And I have posted praise threads on RTW before pointing at specific features that were well done. They didn't get many comments, even from those who are unabashed supporters of RTW.)
FURRY_BOOTS
04-01-2005, 08:02
Well I didn't mean banished in the literal sense. Sorry, I usually don't use smileys in my text, there would have been a winking one right there. The .org is the most mature and tolerant total war forum I know. Although my reception to saying I thought the game was good enough to be considered a finished product (as opposed to a beta, as most people around here refer to it) wasn't exactly friendly, and ended up causing a notice for conduct appearing on the forums. I can't seem to find it, I think it's too old; the name of the thread was "In beta?" I think it ended up getting closed down.
I'm sorry that my post sounded too harsh and accusative, I didn't mean it like that... but to tell the truth I've been reluctant to post here ever since that incident, which is why I said "banished." I immediately saw the topic title, and realized this would quickly turn into another "customer support/buggy game/poor AI" thread.
This was just an informative post. Please, please, please nobody respond to this at all. I really don't feel like arguing or having this turn into a flame thread. If you want to say anything, don't do it here, because I will not be responsible for more flames. Send me a private message if anything. On a side note, I do think I owe the .org members an apology for my previous post(s).
i remember that thread, & i was of the opinion that much of the anger was because of your intolerance of "noobs",
but lets not go there again :hide:
Oh, & Beefy, if you give devs too much praise(we LOVE your game, we worship you, your game is perfect, you can do no wrong) then they sit on their laurels & churn out any old crap(rome is not crap btw) i continually want better games, & if i have to flame/bash devs when its needed, then so be it.
The Stranger
04-01-2005, 09:10
i have been of the internet for a long while so, can someone please introduce me in this thread. what is this about. (i don't like to read all now cause i'm on school and this site is not allowed
Shambles
04-01-2005, 09:16
Hello there,
as you can tell, im relatively new to these forums! but a general feeling of dislike/flamming of RTW have appeared in these forums and many others.
Personally i think RTW is one of the best games i have ever played. Sure it has bugs but what game doesnt? no game is perfect and none of the bugs in RTW have really affected my game and enjoyment of this game.
Sure places like these forums are great for suggesting new ideas and improvements and for discussing RTW. but i have read many topics just plain bashing the hell out of the game with out weighing up the good points with the bad.
RTW was the game that tuned me from a strategy game hater into a lover!
I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.
So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.
Beefy! ~:cheers:
Thats what was said,
Then lots of bugs and issuse were pointed out,
some ppl said why they dissliked game, others said why they bash but still like game,
and some ppl Said silly things like The game is Great,
That should give you enogh info
The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.
Also, the incompetent artificial intelligence is caused, in part, by the loadgame bug. It's not altogether a seperate issue.
Fix it then dumby ~D
PilotusH
04-01-2005, 11:58
Hi, first post from a Noob.
I like RTW overall and enjoy playing. It is a complex game with a lot to get to grips with for a new player.
But I do find the save game feature annoying. I tend to end up playing longer than I really should to get sieges of my towns resolved before I have to save. This means that other factions also have a chance to expand.
When I started I saved almost every turn and nobody expanded. My first campaign was a total rollover.
Saving frequently or otherwise makes an enormous difference to how a campaign develops. This surely can't be by design and should be addressed by CA.
SpencerH
04-01-2005, 13:22
I like your sig RH. You just need to add something like "...with the wrong tools".
Guys, I didn't think that RTW was all that bad. Sure, I did have some problems with it, but some of those could be fixed with the Total Realism mod (which I will be downloading, soon), but even I have some petty little problems wit hthe game, namely the lack of certain other disasters that could happen to people, such as famine. So far I've seen floods and plagues, but no famines yet.
These are all the 'little' problems I have with it... stuff I'd like to be seen improved and fixed in later expansion packs and possibly the next in the Total War series.
I have to admit, I do a lot of bashing and heavy criticism myself every now and then on many subjects, but when all is said and done, remember this: It's just a game, don't take anything too seriously. :duel:
I know many people that love this game as im sure 99% of the great people on this forum do also.
So please join me, when you see/read someone bashing the game, politely correct their thoughts (if you don't feel like politely use other methods) and make them realise the staggering amount of hard work and effort the CA put into making this game.
Beefy!
We recognize the work put in, it's the staggering little amount of hard work CA put into fixing the game after it was released that is making us angry...
For my part I love(d) the game, but as I went further and further in my Juli campaign the bugs and weak AI crept up and made the game pointless. As an example, I find it's impossible to loose to the roman AI when they siege your town with walls and you sally out (the AI just let you crush them with missile fire and do nothing)...
I myself like this game a lot.
I must admit some bugs hit me hard. Like HorseAcrher problem or Scarface bug. Eventually, I learned a way to fix them by moding.
Now, I have only a of bit probelm with two bugs, which are directly related to challenge level of the game.
First one, as eveyone knows is save/load bug, which makes AI passive after reloads.
The second one, is problem with difficulty levels in battles. on higher difficulties, instead of AI getting better stats and morale, to force you rely on tactics more, battles are only faster, since both you and AI get bonuses.
Now, if only these two bugs are fixed, I would praise this game.
Mikeus Caesar
04-01-2005, 16:37
The loadgame bug affects the unmodified game exactly as it does modified games. You clearly have done no research on this bug at all. Please refrain from making conclusions until you have done so. That goes for the thread creator as well.
Wow, step away from the keyboard. Just calm down, and listen. I had done research on this bug, but unfortunately:
A) It says pretty much no where that it affects RTW vanilla. From what i can find, people only say it affects 1.1 and 1.2. Sorry if i don't know everything, but i'm not a super-genius!!!
B) Unlike most panicky people who think they will get a CTD everytime they click end turn so they always save, i don't save so often, which is why i have prolly never encountered the bug. I play on RTW for an hour or so, and then save and quit.
And as for you Shambles, if you have a problem with this game, and have nothing better to do than preach to us all about RTW being crap, then (pardon my french) bugger off to the MTW forums, where you can talk to your hearts content about the supposedly better game. Just don't come here moaning about how RTW is an expensive paper-weight.
A) It says pretty much no where that it affects RTW vanilla. From what i can find, people only say it affects 1.1 and 1.2. Sorry if i don't know everything, but i'm not a super-genius!!!
Well, it does affect v1.0, but per your (B)...
B) Unlike most panicky people who think they will get a CTD everytime they click end turn so they always save, i don't save so often, which is why i have prolly never encountered the bug. I play on RTW for an hour or so, and then save and quit.
Actually, I'm sure your games have encountered it, although you personally may not have seen it. I mean, I played dozens of games, and until I knew of the bug, and actively looked for it, I never really noticed it either. But that's the insidious nature of the bug, it tends to affect the parts of the map you don't really see (unless you play with FoW off), so you don't tend to observe it.
Bh
Aetius the Last Roman
04-02-2005, 12:43
This is just stupid,
How can an open forum like the .org just censor views because it upsets you.
Profanity and sexual explicitness maybe but I think I capture the spirit of the .org when I say that this is an open forum and not a politically-correct fascist republic.
Benny Moore
04-02-2005, 13:00
Versions one point one and one point two are both "vanilla." "Vanilla" means that the game is not modified. And the bug affects all versions equally.
The Wizard
04-02-2005, 13:28
I see the potential of this game, and I look at my experiences with its predecessors, and what do I see? Waste! Horrible, terrible waste of potential! It could have been so challenging, so engrossing, but it turns out to be a rushed product at the whims of a publisher, with many bugs, but most terribly an AI that I can abuse, fool, and trick, rather than cross swords with on an equal level. Besides that, the tactical engine seems to have been simplified and cavalry grossly overpowered.
And to top it all off, I look at Blizzard Entertainment and see its support to its games, and its openness to its customers, and then I look here, and I see two little patches which fix some bugs. Admittedly, 1.02 is an improvement upon vanilla, certainly, but no real effort has been made to make the AI smarter, to improve the tactical engine, so that I actually have a challenge to look forward to. Never mind that the enormous amount of historical innacuracies I see as a fan of military history! The gameplay remains more important.
Then I look back at WarCraft III's 18 patches, StarCraft's (!) latest patch, and WoW's patching (not to mention polish), and people wonder why I play this game constantly annoyed, and put effort into things such as Europa Barbarorum.
~Wiz
Jonny Dangerously
04-02-2005, 16:17
Good for you Beefy.
I think it's a brilliant game, I also think it has some bugs.
This being said, I'm f*cked off with the amount of relentless and unbalanced b*tching that goes on about the game. I'm not talking about the diligent members who work hard to isolate the bugs and bring it to the attention of CA. I'm talking about the whinging, whining @rse monkies who seem to have nothing better to do than log onto this site so they can big themselves up by visciously slamming the game. You know the type of person I'm talking about.....their posts usually start with something like "I've just played my 203rd campaign on VH VH as the Dacians and won in 8 minutes, this game is sh*t.......blah blah blah blah". (read: "I think I'm incredibly clever and I want you all to know it")
I have also noticed that if you try and defend the game you generally get accused of being some kind of noob or idiot.........well I think the game is excellent, and I've been playing TW since the Shogun days.
I think it's pretty ridiculous that if you criticise the level of negative, unconstructive criticism that goes on here, you get accused of being technically ignorant.
Good for you Beefy, many people feel exactly the same way as you.
If the load game bug was fixed, I would be playing RTW at this moment. But since it isn't fixed, I'm not touching it. I bought RTW so I could see countries expand and fall, and to fight epic battles, not to watch everything stagnate and fight stacks of tier one troops. :(
Craterus
04-02-2005, 22:20
If the load game bug was fixed, I would be playing RTW at this moment. But since it isn't fixed, I'm not touching it. I bought RTW so I could see countries expand and fall, and to fight epic battles, not to watch everything stagnate and fight stacks of tier one troops. :(
Cool name, I had a Briton general named Belenus the Conqueror and I had a row of 4 Heroic Victories down to the Italian Peninsula on the road from Iuvavum..
Anyway, on topic, I've never experienced the loadgame bug, do you use mods? Does it come with some of the mods?
AntiochusIII
04-02-2005, 22:55
It is confirmed, Craterus, albeit not by "officials." And it has much more effects than "siege lifting." Generally all aspects of AI decision has been disturbed, including diplomacy, production, and, of course, military. They proved many points in various tests
I don't mind it that much, personally, though.
Anyway:
BASH!
:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
Red Harvest
04-03-2005, 01:40
groan...the loadgame bug has NOTHING to do with mods. Despite the best efforts of CA to cast doubt on those reporting and testing for the trouble, this is not "user error." You don't "see it" because you don't test for it and you have always lived with it unawares. (Like the pri/sec bug...) The game looks roughly the same as it always had, with incomprehensible AI moves as one proceeds through a campaign. But those incomprehensible moves now appear to be strongly related to the loadgame bug. So until it was researched, some were blissfully ignorant of the problem. Others of us were unhappy with the effects it was having on the game...but didn't know what the nemesis was. Now we have more insight into what is causing the problems.
This goes a long way toward explaining why the AI puts up a better fight early in the game too. Early in the game most of us can play through many turns without needing to reload. Whereas late game we probably play 2 to 5 turns before needing to leave the game and later reloading to carry on.
starkhorn
04-03-2005, 02:18
Anyway, on topic, I've never experienced the loadgame bug, do you use mods? Does it come with some of the mods?
No it's part of the hard-code of the game it seems. It's there in 1.0 although my experience has shown it not to be as profund as in v1.1 and v1.2.
Despite comments from MikeB weeks ago on .com, trying to suggest that RTR mods may have been responsible for the bug, this is clearly not the case after simple testing.
TRy it out for yerself. :)
Cheers
Starkhorn
I just came in to bash and flame Beefy; got to admire a person that can be as loyal as a good dog.
kinda sad that someone like you who ive seen on these forums for ages feels he has to come in and act like a child by saying that.
Craterus
04-03-2005, 11:57
What's FoW? ~:cheers: I need to know these things before I can fully understand other's posts.. sorry for the stupid question :embarassed:
starkhorn
04-03-2005, 12:02
I believe it means Fog of War. :) i.e. there is some sorta cheat code that lets you see the entire map with all pieces and settlements or something like that.
I've not tried it myself though so.......
Cheers
STarkhorn
Craterus
04-03-2005, 12:11
what's the cheat? I'm always interested in my campaigns to know how other factions are doing... In my egyptian campaign I know almost nothing of Europe.. Apart from when I sent a diplomat from Pegamum over the Dardanelles to Byzantium and then through Thrace, Dacia, to Italy but he died before he reached Arretium lol...
HeresiarchQin
04-03-2005, 12:51
*Bashes the game*
Nah, this is actually quite a good game. Few games could make me spend (waste?) time more than 3 months on it.
what's the cheat? I'm always interested in my campaigns to know how other factions are doing... In my egyptian campaign I know almost nothing of Europe.. Apart from when I sent a diplomat from Pegamum over the Dardanelles to Byzantium and then through Thrace, Dacia, to Italy but he died before he reached Arretium lol...
Hit ~, then type "toggle_fow" (without the quotes). Typing it again will turn the fog back on again.
Bh
Craterus
04-03-2005, 15:36
does it mess up the game at all? sorry but i'm always cautious when i put cheats into any game :embarassed: :embarassed:
Vlad Tzepes
04-03-2005, 17:34
Well for my part, I have enjoyed the game to a certain degree, but was really expecting more out of it. I still play most days
This is exactly how I feel. After STW and MTW (the second could be pretty correctly taken as an improvement of the first) I hoped Rome, with a new graphic engine and much more detailed diplomacy, and hopefully even better AI, would be THE game. Maybe I expected too much. I like the game, still play and played a lot, but I got somewhat disappointed immediately after the first thrill - and this one didn't last too long, either. ~D
On the other hand, I'm sure CA can sort out useless complaining from useful criticism, from this forum as from others as well.
tai4ji2x
04-03-2005, 18:02
I believe it means Fog of War. :) i.e. there is some sorta cheat code that lets you see the entire map with all pieces and settlements or something like that.
remember that units hiding in the woods will still remain hidden even after you turn off FOW
Craterus
04-03-2005, 22:17
ok thanks... :balloon2: ~D
I tried it out and I'm surprised as to how much the Romans own ~:eek: lol
It is interesting to notice the various responses here.
There are those that agree with Beefy (I'm happy for you guys).
There are those that see as their job to correct Beefy's views as he is obviously an ignorant that must be taught a lesson.
There are those who doesn't agree with Beefy about the game but who understands that views are subjective, something that is correct to the person who has it.
And finally there are the people who just enter the thread to discuss and have fun (fun being quite relative here ~:)).
I'm definately in the third group. I like the game, but I feel the load/siege-bug is big and bad. I try to lessen its effect by playing long and hard each time before saving and quiting. At the same time I dabble with modding so as to make the game work how I want it to. But in general I try not to enforce my views on other people.
If there are people who are perfectly happy with the game as it is then that is how it should be. Sadly I'm not, and obviously I'm not alone. But just because we don't think the game is as good as it should be does that make it right for us to jump people who think the game is good? Not at all! I think there are a good number of people who have been a bit unfair towards Beefy and his views.
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