Greatestt rivalry ever [Archive]

Gawain of Orkeny

04-04-2005, 07:32

What do you think is the greatest rivalry of all time both by country and persons. Such as the Punic wars, Hannibal vs Scipio. Carthage vs Rome. The Greeks vs the Persians , Alexander vs Darius. The Peleponesian wars. Sparta vs Athens. Napoleon vs Wellington things like that. They dont have to be related. You could say Sparta vs Athens best for state vs state but Hannibal vs Scipio for best General on General. Lets not leave out France vs England(i hope its England Im never sure here anymore) with Joan of Arc and all that stuff. King Richard vs Saladin anyone?

Hurin_Rules

04-04-2005, 07:42

Montreal Canadians vs. Quebec Nordiques. Non-stop bench clearing brawls. Good times.

Pindar

04-04-2005, 08:06

I would think one of the truly great rivalries was the English and the French.

Another would be between the Papacy and the Western Emperor.

Byzantine Prince

04-04-2005, 08:20

Man versus infinity. I'de like to hear worse and more ongoing.

Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe

04-04-2005, 08:33

I would think one of the truly great rivalries was the English and the French.

Another would be between the Papacy and the Western Emperor.

France versus England? Overrated. Unless you're talking rugby.

France and England were on conflicting roads a couple of times, like any other countries in Western Europe back then. HYW was one conflict, a few fights in the colonies, but nothing major (when compared to other fights also involving Dutch, Spain, Portugal, etc...) and Napoleon era (but then it was not really France vs England, more like France vs rest of Europe).

Before the XVIIIth century, chances are France was more at war against Spain/ Habsburg than against England. Had you asked Louis XIVth about his rival, I am pretty sure England would not have made it to the short list. Spain/ Habsburg Empire was definitively the target.

After Napoleon, and considering balance of Power, the rivalry was gone.

Considering a thousand year of history, the HYW and 25 years of revolutionary/ Napoleonic adventure, that's a little short for the greatest rivalry ever.

If you are talking medieval era, the real deal was Eastern Roman Empire versus Arabs and then Turks. Not tiny little baronet fighting in western Europe.

Louis,

Craterus

04-04-2005, 14:10

England vs. Germany is a bit of a rivalry now.
In football especially.

nokhor

04-04-2005, 15:46

the wars between the counts of Poitou and the counts of Anjou.

IrishMike

04-04-2005, 16:08

Well Monty and Patton had a pretty intense rivalry, take patton's plan to run straight through the Germans and Monty's Market-Garden plan. Both almost fought a war with each other over who's plan got picked. Ike picked monty though.

In a less serious note, how about Duke and Kentucky in College Basketball. Almost been some wars fought over those games.

Big_John

04-04-2005, 18:47

i would second england/france.

would toss carthage/rome, greece/persia, and egypt/eastern peoples (e.g. assyrians, hittites, mitanni, persians), and chrisitain iberia/muslim iberia (including the reconquista and before) into the mix somewhere.

india/pakistan has potential for future rivalry.

GoreBag

04-04-2005, 19:30

Montreal Canadians vs. Quebec Nordiques. Non-stop bench clearing brawls. Good times.

I actually hate hockey, but I cracked a grin upon reading that. Ah..the Nordiques.

I'd say Scotland and England were more rivals than were France and England.

Craterus

04-04-2005, 20:16

I actually hate hockey, but I cracked a grin upon reading that. Ah..the Nordiques.

I'd say Scotland and England were more rivals than were France and England.

Good point. :idea3:

PanzerJaeger

04-04-2005, 22:16

Germany Vs All The Rest Of Europe ~;)

Stefan the Berserker

04-04-2005, 22:33

England vs. Germany is a bit of a rivalry now.
In football especially.

Yeah, quite real. However the Rivalary between Richard du Lion and Saladin is historically the most cruel one... Maybe just topped by the rivalary for Stalingard...

Kaiser of Arabia

04-04-2005, 22:47

Oesterreich-Ungarn vs Preussen

Longshanks

04-05-2005, 00:18

The US & the Soviets during the Cold War

Germany Vs All The Rest Of Europe ~;)

Actually I would consider France to have been Germany's main rival in WW1, and at least in the beginning of WW2. You could also extend that further back to the Franco-Prussian War.

nokhor

04-05-2005, 03:07

sparta and argos

Uesugi Kenshin

04-05-2005, 03:21

Ireland and England! One that continues today!

For ancient rivalries it would have to be Lakedaemon (Sparta) and Athens. In my opinion there was never a more interesting rivalry. It is also over as far as I can tell and was given a very decisive conclusion after their wars. One was proven superior and the other was destined to forever be admired, when Sparta was admiered by Athens. Makes you think when we admire them how good Sparta must have been in some ways. Though their societies great virtues were in the end their weaknesses. I rambled again. Damn.

cegorach

04-05-2005, 17:05

Russia vs. Poland - according to the Russians it still continues... ~;)

Lechev

04-05-2005, 19:16

For historical rivalry between 2 persons, i will have to say its Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin. Two of the most famous Daimyos during the Japanese Sengoku Jidai period.

BalkanTourist

04-05-2005, 19:28

Argentina vs England, Holland vs Germany, Greece vs Turkey, Croatia vs Serbia & Montenegro, Poland vs Russia, England vs France, Germany vs France, England vs Ireland, USA vs the Soviet Union

Byzantine Prince

04-05-2005, 20:49

Holland versus Germany?

nokhor

04-05-2005, 21:58

darth sidious vs chancellor palpatine
[i can't wait until they finally have their showdown in the next movie]

Gawain of Orkeny

04-06-2005, 02:09

Ali vs Frazier. People this is supposed to be about war. ~:)

Kaiser of Arabia

04-06-2005, 02:37

Russia vs Russia
Russian Civil War!

Gawain of Orkeny

04-06-2005, 04:31

I was expecting to hear Elliott Ness vs Al Capone outa you ~:) Or the cops vs the Mafia

Byzantine Prince

04-06-2005, 05:29

BP vs. everyone else. It's a never ending cycle. ~D

Gawain of Orkeny

04-06-2005, 05:42

How about Religion vs secularism. Christains vs Muslims. Everyone vs the Jews ~:)

Gregoshi

04-06-2005, 16:25

Demon of Light

04-06-2005, 17:28

Can we keep this thread on topic? I just wrote a nice piece on SPAM in another thread, so I'll not repeat it here. Also, to make this a discussion, how about making some comments as to why you think your choice makes for the greatest rivalry. Otherwise this thread becomes just a list and no longer serves any purpose.

I suppose that means I can't use my Gawain vs JAG joke...

Ali vs Frazier is good. In fact, it is still ongoing. After Ali and Frazier fought (with Frazier coming out the worst for it), the next generation took up the mantle. In fact, their daughters fought each other (with Ali winning the match).

caesar44

04-07-2005, 10:10

in wars - rome vs cartage
in football - argentina vs uruguay
in boxing - ali vs forman
the other areas - not interesting ~:) ~:) ~:) ~;)

Kalle

04-08-2005, 10:35

Charles XII of Sweden vs Peter the Great of Russia 1700 - 1718 (Charles shot dead) - such remarkable characters with some attitudes, Charles was a legend allready during his short life.

Sweden vs Denmark - from the vikingage and prolly before that and up until and during the Napoleonic wars (countless wars and intrigues for supremace over baltic and scandinavia)

Gustavus I Wasa vs Christian II, Christian being called the good in Denmark and the tyrant in Sweden ~D

There is a "funny" episode to this. Christian after having entered Stockholm was gonna have revenge on the troublesome Swedes so he locked nobles and other important resisters up and started executing them (Stockholm bloodbath) Gustavs father had not been locked up with the others and since he thought they were having a fun party he was pissed about this and went to the castlegate banging on the door demanding to be let in. The danes obliged him, let him in and chopped his head :P

Kalle

tibilicus

04-08-2005, 11:55

Being English i would have to Say parlimant vs Rolyalists. A war that truley devided a nation and 2 men that hated each others guts !

King Edward

04-08-2005, 12:05

One not many of you would have heard of, but Guernsey v Jersey in the Channel islands is a Fierce rivalry on all sports fields from chess to Rugby. Jersey People call guernsey people Donkeys and Guernsey call Jersey Crapauds.

This Dates back to the English Civil War when Jersey was royalist and Guernsey (Except Castle Cornet) was parlamentarian. Castle cornet guards st peter port harbour in Guernsey and Actually bombarded the town front during the war. My Friends dad owned a shop on the sea front and when he extended the shop they found an old cannon ball!!

Each year Guernsy and Jersey compeate in rugby union for the siam cup which is the second oldest rugby union trophy in the world (Calcutta cup is the oldest) The origonal siam cup Lives in the rugby museam at Twickenham. I'll be playing for Guernsey in the second team fixture of this cup at the end of the month!

caesar44

04-08-2005, 16:06

no its going to be milan again dam!!!
~:mecry: ~:mecry:

Franconicus

04-13-2005, 15:50

England vs. Germany is a bit of a rivalry now.
In football especially.

Sorry, but this is England's personal problem. Germans are busy with their football rivalry with the Netherlands and Austria.
~:cheers:

Al Khalifah

04-13-2005, 16:23

At the moment probably Israel vs Palestine / The Middle East. Its the most total war there has been for the past 60 years, only recently has it settled to a bit more of cold war. Back in the day, only the total destruction of Israel would satisfy the other side - thats TOTAL WAR.

On a side note, why is Rome: Total War called that... surely with the amount of diplomatic options available to you, plus the fact that you can win the game without ever having to see several other factions (without them dying out) makes the warfare somewhat less than Total.
Shogun was Total War because you had to take the whole map plus destroy every faction and because the factions were so well balanced, I don't think I ever completed a game where I didn't fight with or against every other faction.
Medieval slightly less Total War if you played on the higher difficulties and didn't glitch. If you played England for example you would barely ever see the Turks or Novogord. I only really faced the Egyptians because of constant crusading for cash. Plus the key to eventualy victory in Medieval wasn't on the battlefield, but in building up your trade empire. This always used to stink of unrealism to me and I never used to do it - its not Renaisance Total War. Viking Invasion was much more Total War! The end game was fantastic.
Rome, well... the end game isn't total war at all, its more Total Squalor. Plus you didn't even have to conquer the map. When playing as the three Roman factions or Selucia or Egypt, I never went to Britain. There was no real sense of rivalry either, factions just seemed to attack each other randomly.

RANT OVER... (this should probably be somewhere else)

Duke Malcolm

04-13-2005, 17:44

Protestant against Catholics.

The Wars of Reformation are still on-going in the British Isles. From safely Anglican England; to Presbyterian Scotland with a high Catholic population (and the cardinal has more influence than the Moderator of the Kirk), we still get scuffles in the streets, especially in Glasgow, and Hearts fans shouted abuse during a tribute to the Pope after a football match; To Northern Ireland, where you get the IRA and the UFF, and the great walls separating the Catholics and Protestants; To the Irish Republic, a fiercly Catholic country.

Uesugi Kenshin

04-14-2005, 03:34

Total War is like a brand name...

Another big rivalry, Japan and China. Since Mongol times they have been fighting and invading each other's territory.

Browning

04-14-2005, 15:25

Russia vs. Poland - according to the Russians it still continues... ~;)
According to some Poles also.

-Przepraszam, Pani z Wroclawia?
-Tak, ja tez ze Lwowa!

DukeofSerbia

04-16-2005, 18:41

darth sidious vs chancellor palpatine
[i can't wait until they finally have their showdown in the next movie]

Nokhor - Darth Sidious is Palpatine ~D

DukeofSerbia

04-16-2005, 18:44

Prussian king Friedrich II Groesse against whole Europe.

Reverend Joe

04-25-2005, 00:25

Master Shake vs. Carl.

The never-ending battle for carls pool and beer stash.

Kraxis

04-25-2005, 00:50

The one to top them all:

Moderators vs. trolls, spammers, flamers ect ect...

No, on the more serious note.

I would agree that Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen were indomitable rivals. Damn, their rivalry still goes on today with an equal size of population backing them. At times it seems that should these people have weapons a new war could erupt... ok I'm overdoing it. ~;)
But another pair would be:
Hitler vs Stalin.
Just look at the battle of Stalingrad, neither side would budge in a battle for a city that had been reduced to rubble and was at best symbolic for its name and possibly had an impact on transportantion to the Caucasus. Their rivalry was quite intense as they pitted millions aginst each other.

States...
While I agree that the rivalry between England and France is wellknown, I would say that the rivalry between Denmark and Sweden is equally intense. It always feels better when we defeat each other than most other nations. While we are much more friendly now we actually invented a term called "heredetary enemy" (directly translated from 'arvefjende') for the Swedes in the 17th century. In every respect did we struggle, and often on the battlefields. Especially on the seas was the struggle intense, the first Swedish navy was a direct result of the Danish navy being rather strong. Even as late as 1806 was the size of the Danish navy set firm in the notion that it should always be able to defeat the Swedish navy. No other basic reason was given for the size.
But the rivalry was also very old, going far back to the vikings with Danes and Swedes duking it out often enough, trying to put their candidate on either throne. In medieval times there were also plenty of warfare and Saxo wrote his Danish history containing plenty of hatred towards Sweden (in mythical stories they are said to have killed a Danish king while he slept at home, then they were killed by devine intervention).

[EDIT]Hahaha... I hadn't noticed your post Kalle. Lige sind tænker ens.

Lazul

04-27-2005, 21:15

The long struggle between the Kingdoms of Denmark and Sweden.
Mostly since we WON! Woohoo.. ok sorry, just had to say that to anoy the danish here! ~D
Well maybe you cant say we won, we never took Denmark, but half the kingdom, not bad!
Its a rather intresting conflict since it started around the crusade era and then ended around the end of the 18th century you could say.
... oh and one more thing, all you Danish people, when ever you feel like taking Skåne back, just take the damn thing! ~:cheers:
(Im not very serius, so no offence)

The Wizard

04-27-2005, 22:03

TheSilverKnight

04-28-2005, 00:21

Some selections from the annals of history:

Dutch vs. the provincial rebels aka the Belgians... damn dumb Belgians... ~D ~;p

French vs. British... although Continental flavor and style clearly pwns British ass! ~D

Eastcoast vs. Westside! Booyakasha, foo' beeeatch niggas! :pimp:

Feyenoord Rotterdam vs. the Je-- err, I mean Ajax Amsterdam ~;)

Dutch and the wannabe Dutch... yeah you know who you are damn krauts!

Arucambas and yukorsou's... damn foo's on Korsou can't spell dammit... it's with a C not a K!

Me vs. need of sleep during an all-night bedroom romp... :wink3:

And that concludes the greatest rivalries in history. Hands down. Valleys on. Or Chucks? ~;)

~Wiz ~D

Replying to this in order of how you typed, Wiz ~;)

1. I agree ~D

2. ...what are you on? Haven't I told you to leave my stash alone? :furious3:

3. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeelll yeeeeaaahhh! :pimp:

4. *Mad giggling*

5. 'Duitsmen'... :duel: ~D

6. Damn Korsous! :furious3:

7. Poor you...I feel your pain ~:) ...seriously, I do...you know I do :bow:

Somebody Else

04-28-2005, 00:39

Henry the Lion and Barbarossa?

St Louis and Egypt?

Caesar and Cato?

Scipio and Cato the Censor?

Marius and Sulla?

Mithradates and the Roman Empire?

artavazd

05-02-2005, 12:36

Armenia vs. the entire muslim middle east especialy the Turks ( island of Christiandom in a sea of Islam)

Conqueror

05-02-2005, 16:44

Communism vs Capitalism.

As for nations/peoples, I'll go with Rome vs Carthage just because I find it the most interesting and have read about it most. For persons, Hitler vs Stalin.

Brutus

05-02-2005, 17:32

Hoeken vs. Kabeljauwen (Hooks vs. Codfish), two groops that kept the county of Holland and many surrounding regions in an almost permanent state of civil strife (if not, very often, war) for almost 3 centuries.

Other groups fighting each other for centuries: Ghuelfs (Papal party) vs. Ghibbelines (Imperial party) in Italy.

Craterus

05-02-2005, 17:38

Imperials vs. Rebels.

TheSilverKnight

05-03-2005, 02:02

Obi-Wan and Anakin ~D :duel:
...no?
Alright then...

Wellington and Napoleon

Papewaio

05-03-2005, 02:16

Husband and Wife

Uesugi Kenshin

05-03-2005, 03:39

Now that we are getting vague. Nomads v. Townsfolk

Franconicus

05-03-2005, 10:35

Husband and Wife

Wife and Concubine

lonewolf371

05-06-2005, 23:50

Germany vs. France

I would say the English rivalry really isn't all that interesting, I can only think of two times that the French ever beat the English: Hastings, and the Hundred Years' War, although the HYW wasn't really a French victory considering the fact that they never really accomplished anything by fighting it.

On the other hand, the German/French rivalry was much more balanced. The Thirty Years' War, Napoleon, the Franco-Prussian War and WW1 would characterize the most interesting rivalry of the modern age.

In sports, the Steelers/Raiders rivalry of the 1970s was grand, both of those teams will be remembered as legends until the end of time.

The Wizard

05-06-2005, 23:58

Armenia vs. the entire muslim middle east especialy the Turks ( island of Christiandom in a sea of Islam)

Oh come now, you forgot Georgia... poor sods fought hard, long and were successful, and then you go and forget them! ~;)

~Wiz

Colovion

05-07-2005, 00:31

Muslim vs Christian

it's a classic

it's also hilarious seeing the Mongols trounce both the Christians and Muslims, almost as an afterthought

BAHAHAHaaaaa.... .. .

Steppe Merc

05-07-2005, 01:00

Hell yeah Colovion! ~;)
Agree actually 100%. The hatred shown on both sides is pretty crazy...

Steppe Merc

05-07-2005, 01:08

Double post...

Ayachuco

05-11-2005, 14:10

Bush vs. Putin
Normans (This includes the english after 1066) vs. French
Byzantines vs. Turks
Sunnis vs. Shittes
Rommel vs. Montgomery

cegorach

05-11-2005, 16:08

[QUOTE=Draconian]Bush vs. Putin

Rather Putin vs. truth and reality ~D

The Wizard

05-11-2005, 16:30

Yeah, damn KGB commie can't accept the fact that the USSR is dead... observe the V-E Day in Moscow...

~Wiz

Dâriûsh

05-13-2005, 01:47

Alexander III (the Great) versus His father, Philip II. A rivalry in conquest that would ultimately result in the subjugation of Asia.

Oh, and Fenerbahçe versus Galatasaray.

Thoros of Myr

05-13-2005, 02:45

In soccer (football)
USA vs. Mexico
USA vs. all the "proper" football countries

Papewaio

05-13-2005, 05:09

USA is a third tier soccer nation. Even Iran outranks the USA.

Rivarly would assume high level of equal ability.

Like Australia vs New Zealand or vs South Africa at Rugby Union.

Or previously Australia vs England for the ashes.

barocca

05-13-2005, 06:51

me vs sanity

Thoros of Myr

05-13-2005, 07:13

USA is a third tier soccer nation. Even Iran outranks the USA.
Rivarly would assume high level of equal ability.

Thanks...You just proved my point. ~D
USA is in the top 10 of the world rankings. Don't believe me look up the official FIFA rankings http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,All-Apr-2005,00.html.
Iran is ranked 19th FYI. (Rankings as of Apr 05) Also Mexico who we happen to be at a "high level of equal ability" with is ranked 8th in the world. We've just come off a 14 game unbeaten streak finally losing to Mexico back in March. (Last loss before that was to the Netherlands) Hows that for a "third tier soccer nation?"

Ja'chyra

05-13-2005, 09:42

If you're talking football it's got to be Cetic vs Rangers, no-one else even comes close.

Gawain of Orkeny

05-13-2005, 16:11

If you're talking football it's got to be Cetic vs Rangers, no-one else even comes close.

Nope its the Redskins vs Giants ~D

IliaDN

05-13-2005, 17:36

Cristchians vs Muslim.

UglyandHasty

05-13-2005, 18:23

Nope its the Redskins vs Giants ~D

Redskins vs Cowboys is more likely.

Pooma

05-14-2005, 23:01

There is one rivalry that outweighs all others.

Greater than England Vs France,
Greater than England Vs Scotland,
Greater even than Scotland Vs some other Scots.

Attackers Versus Defenders.

It's the eternal battle, neither side ever seems to be able to win that once-and-for-all victory.

Craterus

05-14-2005, 23:52

Has Science vs. Religion come up yet?

Greatest rivalry ever: YES vs. NO

The Wizard

05-15-2005, 00:08

In soccer (football)
USA vs. Mexico
USA vs. all the "proper" football countries

USA... football? Wait, wait, repeat that again.

Americans... football... no quarterbacks...

Is that even possible? I mean, being good and all. Not like women's football counts, or anything. ~;)

~Wiz

Evil_Maniac From Mars

05-15-2005, 00:37

Wartime-Germany and Britain
Soccer-Germany and Brazil or Britain
Hockey-Toronto Maple Leafs and Ottawa Senators, or Sens and the Flyers (broke NHL penalty min record last year)

Papewaio

05-15-2005, 01:22

Also Mexico who we happen to be at a "high level of equal ability" with is ranked 8th in the world. We've just come off a 14 game unbeaten streak finally losing to Mexico back in March. (Last loss before that was to the Netherlands) Hows that for a "third tier soccer nation?"

Consistency and placing in the World Cup. I think even NZ has placed higher in the rounds at the World Cup then USA. How can greatest rivarly be 10th place at their best? It is a bit too much of a stretch to suggest that.

Look up Australia and New Zealand in Rugby Union.

Brazil and France in soccer.

Thoros of Myr

05-15-2005, 02:03

USA made it to the semifinals in the 02 world cup losing to Germany 1-nil. Has NZ made it to the semifinals?

10th place on that list is not 10th place in world cup it's 10th place in overall cumulative rankings based on all competition.

antagonism = rivalry. I only have to step into an international football forum and say anything positive about the USA team to have 10,000 ignorant poeple saying they are ranked worse than Antartica when we have actually been in and around the top 10 for several years now. It's quite funny :D The better we get the more the rivalry grows. Yes it's a bit of a stretch. I woulden't say it's THE greatest rivalry but it's already a big one.

The Wizard

05-15-2005, 02:21

Wait... are we talking about American football, real football (soccer), or rugby here?

~Wiz

John86

05-15-2005, 02:35

I believe they are talking about soccer.
For American football: The single best rivalry in college is Army vs. Navy. Throw all stats away when these two play.

The Wizard

05-15-2005, 02:41

A.R.M.Y.: Ain't Ready to be a Marine Yet. ~;)

~Wiz

Elias71

05-15-2005, 03:01

LOL! Don't make me laugh. USA a soccer team? HA! Don't let your 10th place ranking fool you. Its hard to lose when playing the teams that they do. Mexico is the only quality team that America has to play on a regular basis. Canada, and all of the central american teams are a joke. Is it any surprise that when America plays against its regional rivals, they always win (hence, rake in the points to improve their FIFA ranking), yet when it comes time to play a real European team they get their asses handed to them? You said it yourself, semi-finals, lost to Germany, you guys played the Netherlands, you lost to them too. Sure, you might get lucky and win a decent match here and there, but the US is FAR from a top soccer team.

Again, numbers can be misleading. FIFA rankings only show you a team that wins, but not the quality of teams that they are beating. Being ranked 10th in the world by bullying around sub-par North American teams is nothing to brag about...

Thoros of Myr

05-15-2005, 08:35

Well let's see...the top teams are pretty much the only teams we lose to. Is that same fact not true for Germany, Netherlands etc.? They don't win every game against top opposition either. Oh, and every good match we win isin't simply because of luck..I actually watch the games...and Mexico plays all the same teams we do...I guess they are raking in the points too, even though you call them a quality team, I'm confused ~:confused:

And no we don't get our "asses handed to us" have you looked at the scorelines? Did you actually watch the semifinal match? They are usually marginal victories. Not some 4-0 trouncing you seem to be alluding to.

Something else to keep in mind: Our national league is in it's 10th season and is actually growing every year. We added two expansion teams this year and it's looking almost certain there will be more expansion teams next year and the years after that. Soccer is actually gaining considerable popularity here it's only a matter of time until it's as big as our other top sports. So keep on hating our team and calling our victories luck...it will make the rivalry better. :)

Gawain of Orkeny

05-15-2005, 15:49

Pindar vs either Saturnus or Hurin Rules. ~;)

Elias71

05-15-2005, 16:18

Thoros, I guess I can't blame you. After all, you ARE an American so of course you are going to want to believe that America is some kind of soccer powerhouse...

The reality is, I watch MLS every now and then, and frankly the level of play is poor compared to any major league. And Mexico isn't much of a powerhouse, but they don't suck either. Sure, they may be the best in North America, but thats exactly it, NORTH AMERICA. The fact is, America is not a soccer nation, and it still isn't. Good for you guys if its getting popular, but don't start going around already telling us that you are all that so prematurely like that. I've seen your national team play, and honestly, I see some of the scrappiest goals ever.

Face that facts, a quick search on the USA team's previous games shows that you guys just punk around sub-par teams and lose to anybody who has skill. Lemme just copy and paste the last couple games:

Summary
USA (USA) 2:0 (1:0) Guatemala (GUA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone BIRMINGHAM, AL USA - 30.03.2005
Mexico (MEX) 2:1 (2:0) USA (USA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone MEXICO CITY MEXICO - 27.03.2005
USA (USA) 1:0 (1:0) Honduras (HON)
Friendly 2005 ALBUQUERQUE MEXICO - 19.03.2005
USA (USA) 3:0 (2:0) Colombia (COL)
Friendly 2005 FULLERTON USA - 09.03.2005
Trinidad and Tobago (TRI) 1:2 (0:1) USA (USA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone PORT OF SPAIN TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO - 09.02.2005
USA (USA) 1:1 (1:1) Jamaica (JAM)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone COLUMBUS USA - 17.11.2004
USA (USA) 6:0 (1:0) Panama (PAN)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone WASHINGTON DC USA - 13.10.2004
El Salvador (SLV) 0:2 (0:1) USA (USA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone SAN SALVADOR EL SALVADOR - 09.10.2004
Panama (PAN) 1:1 (0:0) USA (USA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone PANAMA CITY PANAMA - 08.09.2004
USA (USA) 2:0 (1:0) El Salvador (SLV)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone FOXBORO/BOSTON USA - 04.09.2004
Jamaica (JAM) 1:1 (0:0) USA (USA)
FIFA WC 2006 Prel. Comp. CONCACAF Zone KINGSTON JAMAICA - 18.08.2004
USA (USA) 1:1 (0:0) Poland (POL)
Friendly 2004 CHICAGO USA - 11.07.2004

Wow, you guys can tie teams like Jamaica 1-1, and beat teams like El Salvador, Honduras and Guatamala and lose to Mexico... It would be a disgrace if you guys didnt rake in all the points you do to make it to 10th in the FIFA rankings. And just look, as soon as you play even the lower-level European teams, like Poland, you can't win. It doesn't matter if you can pull through with a miracle win every now and then against the big teams, if you are not consistent, you aren't a quality team.

As much as it hurts, get over it. There is no "rivalry" with US soccer. The only rivarly you will see related to the American national team is political heat over the teams as they beat you (recall Iran beating you guys 2-1 in 1998).

Gregoshi

05-15-2005, 22:05

Let's not get carried away with the football/soccer discussion. It appears you are going to have to agree to disagree - or if you want to delve into it deeper, start a topic in the Backroom.

Thoros of Myr

05-16-2005, 02:50

Watching an MLS match every now and then and seeing poor level of play doesen't resemble the entire league. Plenty of times I've turned on the Premiership and seen a scrappy, boring match. Does that mean every game is that way? No. I've seen many more great games in the Premiership but I've seen great ones in the MLS too.
The previous match with Poland we won 1-0 and the latest win by Mexico was the first time they beat us in 3 years. We aren't sub-par, we are every bit as good as Mexico. The only reason I say there is a rivalry with European teams is that no matter what we do we don't get any respect from other nations. Obviously people are concerned with us becoming a better team or they woulden't act like that. Anyway this conversation has run it's course. Nice chatting with you all. :)