The Age of Mankind: Total War

[richyg13]

@Lonely Soldier
I'll make those updates to the site sometime tomorrow evening i think. i have made lots of other updates there too just havnt uploaded them yet. I'm still trying to model, kinda made a little progress. I think i can fix it tomorrow. they were sposed to teach us a bit of max in uni today but didnt... grrr. and rome total war got a mention by one of my lecturers hehehe.

Adding more units to the medieval age maybe feasable, depends on unit/model count... I'll have to make a round up of how many units and models we have declared soon so i know how much more scope we have.

@Helgi
Thanks for the clarification... will have to look up the unit size for them, they will indeed be an exceptional unit available to the british with very high recruitment costs. due to the veriable unit sizes available in RTW i'll set the value based on the unit sizes being set to normal.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - Sounds good!

Helgi - Thanks for the info!

[richyg13]

Site has been updated with the stated needed changes plus some extra things ive added.

http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/

[Duke Malcolm]

I haven't really been interested in this mod before, but I have recently fallen in love with it, and I will no doubt get it when it is ready for download. However, after reading that you might give the British only England I might suggest giving the British all of Britain, because the people of ancient Wales were the same people as of ancient England, and the Picts may also have been British... And if you do this, then the rose might not be the best symbol...

Sorry, nit-picking is just a little habit of mine...

[Helgi]

@Lonely Soldier,
No Problem, just trying to help when I can.
@Richyg13,
If you need anything let me know.
~:cheers: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge:

[richyg13]

@King Malcom
for starts, thanks the support :bow:
Britain has always been a multi-cultural society, has been home to many different peoples. Indeed Wales, Scotland and England have their own cultures in a sense which makes it dificult to decide on a symbol to represent all three without using the modern Union Jack that i was originally using.
As decides the starting provinces owned it could be likely they start with all three and depending on the map scale they may have all 3 combined as a single province. Not much is known at this stage and is always subject to change.

@Helgi
Any help you give is always welcome, if we do something u can see is totally wrong please point it out so i can slap myself and correct it ~D

[Lonely Soldier]

King Malcolm - Glad to hear how much you like the mod! As Richy said, the Britons may start with all of Britain simply because of province limitations/map size, but I think it might be good to make them fight rebels - even if only in one or two provinces - early on, instead of giving them free reign over an easily defended and agriculturally rich area. But we'll see how we go.

richyg13 - The new description on the main page is very good! It clearly states the mods scope! Also, I totally agree with your comments about Briton being multicultural - that is precisely why we should have special, province specific units, like Welsh Longbowmen.

By the way, my name is Walter Leggett, I'm 17 (its Brisbane by the way ~:) ), at the moment my favourite faction is the Inca Empire.

I just discovered that BI won't be out in Australia until the 21st of October! AAARRRGGHHH! So I won't be able to test anything uploaded until then!

Some more Region Descriptions:
Asia – The continent of Asia technically begins in Turkey, making it a truly massive area, comprising India, China, Mongolia and the islands of the south-east and Japan. Here the Gupta and Champa Empires are rising, the former in the hot, wet centre of India and the latter in the jungles of what will become Vietnam and Cambodia. China’s rich pastures and vast resources are divided between two warring kingdoms, the Wei and the Qi. China has been a centre of learning and technology for many centuries past, presumably due to its large population and rich supplies of natural resources. The islands of Japan are almost entirely mountainous, making agricultural land scarce. Earthquakes are also common, making building on sloping ground perilous. The western half of Japan has recently been united by the Yamato clan, while the rest is controlled by rebel warlords. The Mongols make their impermanent dwellings on the steppe of Central Asia, and live a life of subsistence entirely dependant on their horses, this has, of course, made them excellent horsemen.

The Near East – the Tigris-Euphrates river system - fed by snow-melt from the northern mountain ranges - is the life blood of this region, which has always produced grain of the highest quality. Many civilisations have risen and fallen along the Twin Rivers and on the coast of the Caspian Sea to the north. Now the Sassanid Empire stakes its claim to this area, and to the deserts of Arabia and the Marshes of the gulf. To the north, forming a barrier between the Caspian and Black Seas are the Zagros Mountains, a useful defence against any who would threaten the northern border of the Empire. To the West lies the passage to Africa and the rich territory of Egypt.

[richyg13]

Hehe, dont worry there are games i want not sue til next month so they're killing me :P and if you wait there'll be more stuff available for you to play with by this time :)

sorry that not much viewable work has been generated in the past few days, with uni being the main cause it is supplying me with skills to help in this mod's development. What i have been playing with more than anything is getting a musket model to work. I have it in game and its boned 90% correctly (needs a new animations realy, i'll work on that once i got the rendering aligned properly), i am no modeller thats why its taking so long :P

This musket can be the base for all the factions. Its a very poor model but its a start.

I'll add the new region descriptions now

I got uni all day today, then im playing football (soccer) later (im injured but starting lol, work that out) and then probably gna have people over for a drink. So yeh! no work today lol.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - OK! Have fun ~:cheers: !

[Helgi]

"@Helgi
Any help you give is always welcome, if we do something u can see is totally wrong please point it out so i can slap myself and correct it ~D"
@Richyg13,
No proplem, will be offline between the 20th to maybe the 25 or 26 due to the move, but yeah, I'll give you a heads up.
~:cheers:

[Lonely Soldier]

Helgi - Hope the move goes well!

Here are some more unit descriptions (the phrases on 'lacquered armour' can be recycled for all other samurai units.

Yari Samurai – These spear armed samurai are expert at defending themselves from a cavalry charge or against light infantry. They wield their spears two-handed, either making thrusts or small slashes at the enemy. They are armoured in the usual fashion of those of wealth, with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

Katana Samurai – The katana was, for its time, the epitome of all blade-work; those of especially high quality were capable of severing a man from shoulder to shoulder. The katana (long-sword) has an elegantly curved blade which is formed by folding sheets of steel over a soft, iron core and is fought with two-handed. When employed by warriors such as these, who train with them near constantly, they are truly fearsome weapons. These samurai are armoured in the usual fashion of those of wealth, with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

Yumi Samurai – The yumi, the Japanese longbow, is easily recognised by its unusual curvature, specially designed to be easily fired from horseback. Unlike its European counterpart, which is made from a single length of yew, the Japanese yumi is made from thin layers of bamboo, glued together with resin and bound in bamboo cord. These samurai are trained in the Way of the Bow (Kyudō) and so are expert bowmen. They are armoured as befits their class; with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

[richyg13]

awesome descriptions! see thats the stuff i cant do lol. So your proving your worth ~:)

I can get something sorted today, may add the roman cavalry or something, see what fits after lunch :) maybe get some Hellastanic Cavalry done too. I'm having an issue with the mounts, i cant create my own so I'll have to enquire on the forums to see how i can create new ones.

also i got the texture to work on my musket i was making, u can see it here:
https://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1633/muskets6vs.th.jpg (https://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=muskets6vs.jpg)

need to do:
- new animations
- a new skin (i can convert the model into an Aquebusier - an armoured musketman which seems the roman type of way in my opinion)
- new projectile (bullet for musket)
- smoke effects

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - Musketeers look great! And I agree, the Romans would use armour as much as possible. They really liked the whole 'all-purpose soldier' thing!

Good news! We have a modeller! Welcome aboard kornsoadhts!

[kornsoadhts]

i was sitting in ap european history class when my teacher went into a 30 minute discussion about the englishs' use of the long bow to dominate the french and put an end to chivalry in the battle of Crecy (1346). This was a major turning point in european warfare and i would like to know if u know of this and have considered including this in the mod. If u have then welldone, but if u haven't consider doing some research to create an english longbow unit. These longbowmen would plant their arrows into the ground and after every shot they would reload this way without having to reach anywhere on them, making their refire rate extremely fast. And if im not mistaken later on in english history they started using crossbows becuz it was easier to train soldiers to use them. sry i rambled a bit but an exotic longbow unit would be sexy ;) As playing as france later around the 1420s a general should appear known as joan of arc who could balance out the english's archery power with a strong calvary unit. This would even out the english vs. french and would be historical accurate. stuff like this can be done with other important historical figures to make this mod even more appealing.

i was thinking, is it possible to extract models and textures from that british rtw-like game "imperial Glory" to use for riflemen units?

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - Those ideas sound promising! I'm not sure about the Imperial Glory models being compatible though... Do you own the game? It would probably be illegal to use them I'm afraid.

Some more unit descriptions:

Rome - Patrician Knights - These knights are the medieval noble equivalent of equites. They, like the other nights of Europe, charge with long spears and then enter the frey with swords. These swords, essentially lengthened versions of the Gladii used by Roman legionaries, are coupled with a tall shield and thick barding for the horses which makes these knights some of the finest in Europe, a testament to Roman skill in adapting the technologies of other cultures. They are armoured, albeit more richly than their ancestors' Plebian counterparts, in segmented plate armour of the style of the 1st Century CE.

I think these knights should wear a lorica segmentata (like the legionaries use, somewhat paradoxically in R:TW) because it shows the slightly antiquated nature of their class.

Franks - Pavise Crossbowmen - These crossbowmen use the pavise; a square shield with a prop at the back which is designed to be set up and sheltered behind, making it, essentially, a moveable wall. These archers therefore are slow moving, but can reload safely behind their pavise when others would remain vulnerable.

Britons - Bombards - The bombard, a British invention, is basically a massive bell shaped piece of steel into which is packed gunpowder and a massive iron ball, or other projectile. The bombard was first employed in against the French and here it proved decisive. These weapons are however, inaccurate and liable to explode violently if over-stuffed with powder.

Mortars - A development of the bombard, the mortar is somewhat more accurate and works on the same principle. Its crew need to be expert at calculating angles and trajectories to use these machines effectively. The main function of the mortar is to rain death on foes sheltering behind fortifications and, with an experienced crew, reducing a cities walls may be unnecessary.

Japanese - Naginata Samurai - The[I] naginata, or glaive, has a handle three to five feet long on the end of which is a long curved blade. The naginata is essentially a sword on a staff and has the advantages of both; enemies can be kept at a distance while long, slashing cuts are inflicted. These samurai are trained to use the naginata against infantry and cavalry. They are armoured as befits their class; with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

Naginata Cavalry - These samurai weild the fearsome naginata from horseback. Using this weapon allows not only for impaling enemies in a charge but also for sweeping passes at the enemy line. Horses are very rare in Japan and the naginata is a difficult weapon to use effectively, both of these factors make these men prized in a Japanese army. These samurai are armoured as befits their class; with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

No-Dachi Samurai - The No-Dachi is an immensely long sword, made in the fashion of a katana and of similar curvature, the No-Dachi is rather analogous to the Scottish claymore in that it requires immense strength to be weilded effectively. The No-Dachi, again because of its size, is a weapon near impossible to use with much speed, but, should an enemy soldier get in its way when momentum is on its side they will almost certainly be killed or crippled. These samurai are armoured as befits their class; with interlocked, lacquered metal scale armour, which is effective against sword cuts and allows for supple movement.

[kornsoadhts]

what type of buildings and units do u want me 2 model? i need something to model after, like a picture or something. Oh, by the way I have to tell you that building modeling is very restricted and would take alot time if i don't have any idea what to make. So it would be nice if you could get me a picture of what types of buildings u want, what they're called and same with units.

i have below some proof that i no how to model, its a unit called The Reaper Elite. They are a handler unit(as you can see they have wardogs) but they are also fight very well with their touch of death..hehe...neway i just wanted to let u no i can model, i put this unit together in about 15 mins so its not flawless and it has half the vertices and polygons of a regular peasnt unit probly. Its of no use to the mod i just felt like posting it up.

http://img19.imagevenue.com/loc89/th_2fe_reaper_unit.JPG (http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc89&image=2fe_reaper_unit.JPG)
http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc224/th_c2e_reaper_unit3.JPG (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc224&image=c2e_reaper_unit3.JPG)

im getting barbarian invasion in a day or two, i researched the patrician knights a while ago and got an i dea. I can mount one of the BI roman general models to an armoured horse and give them spears. In the picture i found the helmet the knights were wearing was one available in BI and the horses looked like regular horses with some armour here and there. i would just edit all of the files and textures and we'd have the patrician knights.

this i the only picture i could find of patrician knights
http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~gkellehe/pat_romkn.jpg
do you guys have the expansion because that might take care of one whole age for europe. we might not have to add many more units for europe since the BI expansion covers that area thoroughly. The expansion even has a religous system so i've heard.

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - I like those reapers! I'm surprised you found any pictures of the patrician knights... I thought I made them up! They'll be in the Medieval Age, which, of course, the Romans didn't survive into.

RichyG13 has the expansion and I'm gettting it this week. He's already given us a lot of info on the features (yes there is religion and it is possible to add more than the three provided). I imagine BI will give us virtually all the Europeans we need, albeit with some skin changes, but we've still got the Americans and Asians to do.

I'll give you some pictures for some Mesoamerican units (I think they're on page one of the forum in the units placeholder post). Of those I would particularly like to see the guy with the giant umbrella thingy (he could be a standard bearer perhaps. http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5010/aztec20warriors2039mc.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20warriors2039mc.jpg) You could also look at the jaguar warriors perhaps.

and basically any of these!
Mexica Cuahchic, Warrior Priest, Alliance Warrior
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5338/aztec20warriors2051or.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztec20warriors2051or.jpg)

Province Specific units - Tlaxcalans:

Tlaxcalan Captain (possibly a unit in their own right), Texcocoan Captain (maybe used as captain for all Mesoamerican Alliance units? He just looks so damn cool!)
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/1118/tlaxcalan20warriors2014fe.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2014fe.jpg)

Bowman, Soldier and Elite Warrior of Tlaxcala
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/4433/tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.jpg)

And here are some unknown types of warrior:
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/5862/aztecbattle11kd.th.jpg (http://img258.echo.cx/my.php?image=aztecbattle11kd.jpg)

There are also some Inca units there which you might consider doing. The models on a lot of them look pretty interchangeable (with some skinning differences).

More unit descriptions:
Mesoamerican Alliance:
Warrior Priests - These men fight for their gods and capturing prisoners is a priority. Those taken prisoner are not to be spared however, they are to be sacrificed at the summit of a temple-pyramid to appease the gods. These warriors wear the traditional garb of their station and a tall pointed cap which helps to deflect blows away from them. Like other Mesoamerican warriors they carry a wooden shield decorated with feathers and an obsidian edged club.

Alliance Warrior - These men are the mainstay of a Mesoamerican army and, when massed, present a fearsome sight. They are not a match for any elite units, but they are useful in surprise attacks. They are armoured very lightly and so are vulnerable to ranged attackers. They carry a small feather covered shield which affords them some protection against others of their class. They also carry an obsidian edged club.

Jaguar Warriors - These men are feared on the battlefield as the jaguar is feared in domestic life. These men are some of the finest warriors in a Mesoamerican army. Their units are generally made up of the wealthy and elite warriors of the Yucatan Peninsula. They are still lightly armoured though and are accordingly fast on the battlefield. They carry finely made shields and obsidian-edged war clubs.

[richyg13]

See what happens when im not around for a day! lol

welcome aboard mate, finally my prayers are answered, wont have to put up with my crappy models :P


I am indeed using many of the exisiting BI units and giving them reskins and partial model changes.

your modelling skills are quite profound by the way, im impressed.

i know im not in charge of the mod's direction but should our focus be on completing europes early ages? the map isnt due for some time so we can get a demo camapaign going with the BI map??? up to you Lonely.

btw, the limit is 10 religions.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - Its good to know the limit on religions - but unfortunate there is one!

i know im not in charge of the mod's direction I still value your input though! And yes we could certainly focus on Europe's early ages, as BI provides so much in this regard. Ideally I would like to release everything we've got as a sort of teaser version, using the factions already present if necessary - but I can see the problems with that. My only problem with a European demo is that it doesn't really show off much if we basically just use the early eras (iron and steel ages). If we were to release a European demo we should probably have the religions in place, and have one or two age shifts complete. We should consider this a little more before making a decision.

Draft Religion and Religious Structures List:
Judaism (too minor in the scheme of things? Perhaps orthodox christianity as well?)
-Cynagogue (others too, I'll need to research this)

Christianity (see BI for buildings)
-Chapel
-Church
-Cathedral
-Monastery (as an add-on?)

Islam (not sure on the structures. Islam emerged around 600CE, not sure if we can do that.

Hinduism (I'll find Indian names for structures)
-Shrine
-Temple

Animism (belief in spirit animal gaurdians and things. I think this is primarily North American)?

Buddhism
-Shrine
-Temple
-etc.

Mesoamerican Religion
-Shrine
-Temple
-Temple Pyramid
-Great Temple Pyramid

Celto-Germanic Religion
-Sacred groves and such

Two more slots.

Unit Descriptions
Mesoamerican Spearman - These warriors are lightly armed and armoured, their main function being to repel an enemy charge, not to engage in direct melee. They are most effective when tightly packed together so they can present a solid wall of spears. They do not carry shields and wear nothing but a loin cloth so they are extremely vulnerable when outclassed, as they almost always will be.

Bowmen of Tlaxcala - These Tlaxcalan subjects of the Mesoamerican Alliance are armed with bows and are quite richly armoured. Their arrowheads are edged in volcanic glass and their bows are strong. These archers are experienced and only the finest will serve in an Alliance army.

Elite Warriors of Tlaxcala - These are the finest soldiers the client state of Tlaxcala has to offer, wearing a swan head-dress indicative of their wealth and status they go to battle with lightning speed and unmatched prowess. Like most Mesoamericans they carry an obsidion edged war club and a feather coated shield. Many of these warriors would have won their armour for valourous service to Tlaxcala and the Mesoamerican Alliance.

[kornsoadhts]

I finished the following unit. Tell me if you want me to change something or anything. I tried to give it those indian braids on the back of the head but there was some glitch appearing from it in game. But if there is anything you don't like about it or you just think would make it better tell me. I'll start working on the archer next.
Tlaxcallan Unit
http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc42&image=72e_tlaxcallan.JPG
By the way the swords for this unit is supposed to be like a wooden sword with razors on the sides right? or did i do that wrong?

update-i finished the sprites, descr_model_battle file, texture, and all models for the tlaxcallan soldiers unit. I dont know if u want me to leave the unit card picture and descriptions up to u. I'll fix the length of the sword in the morning. Its so long it goes through other friendly soldiers during the before battle speech.

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - Wow, that was quick! The 'swords' are more like clubs. They're kind of paddle shaped with grooves down either side into which were slotted pieces of volcanic glass - which incidently was honed much sharper than any metal and could sever a horse's head. This material was very brittle though, which is essentially why the Spaniards won. By the way, some of those pictures don't show up on occasion, something to do with the image host? If you like I'll download them and upload them to moddb to make 'em more stable.

Regarding that new model: I like it so far, could we make the pants a little more like the picture, though modesty is all well and good, and if its an engine limitation they're fine as they are. I'll get Richy to finesse that texture, but its fine at the moment for posting on other sites I reckon. The faces are very good! I like the lines of face paint!

Another religion idea:
Atheism

RichyG13 - I was wondering, if you have a little spare time, if you could finish off the faction icons. If you're working on skins they take highest priority, but if there's a brake... Also, we should get the faction banners done too, I saw some somewhere which were pretty damn excellent, very grungy and realistic, I'll see if I can find the thread. Some faction's banners could be pennants and such as well, or not actually related to their icon. I've got a picture of a Chinese imperial flag somewhere we could possibly use as a reference.

I'll scout around for another chinese symbol to use for the second Chinese faction. Just to clarify, the two Chinese Kingdoms are the Qi in the south and the Wei in the north. I think the Qi should have the current one, as its the symbol the emperor will come to use and the Qi hold his capital.

My brother's just suggested having no banners at all, in effect having to identify the units by uniform. We could still have the standard bearer carrying a realistically large banner, but we'd do away with the strange fade-in/out thing the current banners do. It'd also cut down on the work by a fraction and allow for more realism. What do you guys think?

[kornsoadhts]

i think thats a pretty good idea about the banners
https://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9017/tlaxcallan4hw.jpg
hows that picture? its a little bright but w/e

i saw on the webdb u have inca slingers and other units, did u just edit textures for those or did u create new models?

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - Thanks for the pic, I've uploaded it to moddb now.

The Inca units were edited with alpha channel stuff I think, they aren't new models and don't really match the pictures on page one. Richy did the texture.

Latest Faction List
The Inca Empire
The Mesoamerican Alliance
The Apache
The Iroquois
The Crow
The Britons
The Spanish
The Franks
The Roman Empire
The Germans
The Hellenistic States
The Austro-Hungarian Alliance
The Slavic States
The Sassanid Empire
The Gupta Empire
The Champa Empire
The Kingdom of Qi
The Kingdom of Wei
The Mongols
The Japanese

[richyg13]

The banner idea something i contemplated myself and tbh i reckon we go for it, the banners look horrible when poking out above their heads and then yes we can have accurate (and changing) battle standards for each age.

ok your point is valid and we'll get as many units done for each faction as we can as a beta release.

im off tomoz so ill give you a full summary of what can happen, im in a rush now so must go. c u all soon.

[richyg13]

right got some time in uni :P

I love the hair coming over the top of the headband :P very effective

ill change the the face for you to match the other units ive already made. you may want to upgrade the models im using for units ive made so far, the meso-american alliance warrior i made has a slight model change to get the blade working.

I'll do the clafication list tomorrow.


oh, just a unity note... have all the textures and models have the starting code 'aom_' eg. 'aom_roman_archer.tga.dds' it helps to find the files in future when compiling the mod.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 -
ill change the the face for you to match the other units ive already made We should keep the face paint though as its a nice touch based directly on the reference picture. And it hadn't occured to me to change the banners as time went on, but now I feel dumb not to have thought of that! I think all you really need to do to the skin is make it a little less bright. Same colours, just a little dirtier and a little more shading. We also need to make the shield slightly different: a dot in the middle, like the one already there, just with a circle of the same colour around it.

By the way, the banners can be switched off in preferences.txt, so we can just have them off as a default. Also, I understand BI allows for mod switching with a command line change, meaning that we don't need to overwrite any original data (I might have this wrong, but I'm pretty sure someone from CA said this).

kornsoadhts - I hadn't noticed the hair, but I really like it!

[kornsoadhts]

i edited the model and made the little overhanging cloth instead of the skirt thing. I edited the texture too and everything looked great, but the game engine wraps the texture on the model differently and it came out looking like a big red and skin colored blob. So there's not much i can do by modeling, but im sure richy cud replace the outer red and white stripes with a skin color that matches the upper thigh and it would look good. And also i'm slightly retarded when it comes to making semi-circle lines in photoshop so he would have to edit the shield and do that as well. And who do i send the files to and how?

heres a picture of what that tlaxcala models texture should resemble...

https://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.jpg (https://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tlaxcalan20warriors2027ys.jpg)

and when u get thefiles i sent u richy make sure u change all the names to tlaxcala where i wrote tlaxcalla just take away the extra L from all the spots i mispelled it

[richyg13]

if you have msn u can add me - richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com

u can also e-mail stuff to me at that addy.

i need to recompile the whole mod once again for clarity on what we got, i still havnt made everything BI compatible.

Shifty is writing an effects tutorial soon so i should be able to code things to bang soon enough.

the face can be modded with the face paint kept no worries :)
i can fix the shield yes cus i did the effect that lonely wants for my own mod once before.

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - Thanks, mate, shame about the cloth, but I think we can get away with it. Can you make entirely transparent parts on textures? Maybe that's how we could make it a little more like the pic?

richyg13 - In terms of the mod files, I'd be happy for you to send me a copy of what we've got so far every once in a while (I've got a second HD which is very stable and which I never use), just so we've got a back-up. It should be small enough to email to me, when it gets over 250mb we'll need to work something else out.

Also, we could add a downloads section to the site, which will just say something like "AoM:TW v1.00 - Coming soon!" just to whet peoples appetites.

[kornsoadhts]

lonely soldier-thats a very good idea i never thought about that, and yes it is very possible thats what i did to get the shield from being a square.

richyg13-is there neway u can send me all the files 2, im sure i could have some positive imput as to what can make some of the stuff better. if u could send it to my gmail account i think i might be able to get all the files in 1 or 2 emails.

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts & richyg13 - That all sounds like a good idea to send everyone everything. That way we can all have direct input! Particularly with modelling and skinning - each of you will be able to finesse the other's work in your field!

[richyg13]

I'll try and compile everything today then, i have a whole day off after all lol, unless i get asked to go anywhere but i havnt yet.

im not sure how big the files are so I'll break up the mod into little bits if i have to, you should be fine to unpack them back into the game. I'll remove as much crap as possible too. Note i have been overwriting original game files so ill extraxt the code from them.

The WIP arquebusiers will also be in there, texture still needs work.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - sounds good! I can't imagine the mod being more than 250mb yet, which is the storage I have available through hotmail. I still don't have BI yet, and the official word is that it won't be out here 'til the 21st/24th of October:furious3: - they promised the 7th - so there's no immediate hurry for my sake, though it would be good to send all the models and things to kornsoadhts so he can improve on them.

I'll do some research on units for some of the less developed factions too. I'll also get down to writing descriptions for all the units we've got so far as it would look pretty dodgy to have new unit cards etc. without descriptions.

[richyg13]

ok well ive e-mailed both of you the compliation to date, unpacked the files are 5.83Mb, packed only 2.53Mb. The inca aint in there as i didnt have chance today im sorry, my mate has been here most of the afternoon.

any problems let me know, aint got the mail?? then ill host it on the website.

note the mod is compiled for use with BI

[kornsoadhts]

i just got BI today, whenever we are ready to realease something to the public give me all the files so i can make an installer package. I have a program that lets me make custom made installer packages.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - Thanks Richy!

kornsoadhts - That would be useful!

How do you both find BI? Better or worse? Worth the money?

Also, we're quite lucky in terms of the battle orders and updates for the Slavs and Japanese as we can simply use the ones from Shogun and Medieval.

I found some symbols for the Qi and Wei Kingdoms (I hope you can display them 'cos you might need a language pack or something):
Wei - 魏

Qi - 齊

What do you two think? Should we use characters or some other designs?

I'd worked on some faction descripirons a while ago for the mod, before you even joined I believe, and I just thought I'd post 'em. They're of a rather different style to the others, so maybe I should either re-do them all like this or just add a little to the current ones?

The Western Roman Empire
The great and noble Romans, hailing from Latium in central Italy, have controlled the Mediterranean from their eternal city for nearly six-hundred years. Now their empire has split, where once the Roman world stretched from Britain and Iberia to the Hellespont and Judea, there are now two empires, two emperors, one rules from Rome, the other from Constantinople.
But this Eastern Rome is controlled more by the decadent Greeks than by Roman law. To the north as well, Rome is beset: the Britons, Gauls and Germans encroach on what was once Roman land. But Italy is still Roman, Africa and Iberia are still supplicants of Rome, Roman armies are still Europe’s finest. And Emperor Honorius, is keen to re-take what was Rome’s.

The Hellenistic States
Descendants of Sparta, Corinth and Athens, the Byzantine rulers of what is commonly known as the Eastern Roman Empire control Greece, Egypt and Asia Minor. After Constantine re-founded Byzantium and gave it his name, in 330CE, the Roman world was torn between east and west.
The people of Hellas stepped into the breach, and now share an uneasy peace with their western neighbours.
The capital of the Greek world is Constantinople, the centre of trade in the Eastern Mediterranean. Commerce flows here from Asia, the Black Sea, Greece and Egypt. Not only is the capital ideally situated for trade, it is the most easily defendable area in the Mediterranean, and positioned in such a way as to be able to easily block trade and travel in the Black Sea from the rest of the Mediterranean.
Arcadius, the emperor, is prudent enough to know that his western Roman will not be subjugated easily, and he has his eastern provinces to consider…

The Britons
Recently abandoned by Rome, Britain has had to fend for itself. The Britons had their first encounter with the Romans in 55BCE when Julius Caesar attempted an invasion of the islands. Britain was eventually placated, after several major revolts, and after its religion, Druidism, was quashed in 60CE by command of the Emperor Claudius I. Now, the Celtic culture which the Romans sought to repress has begun to resurface, Britain is becoming a power of note in north-western Europe, but before they can expand further they will need to do battle with the Franks across the Channel, and with their fiercely independent neighbours to the west and north.
From the old Roman capital, Londinium, Britain’s tribes are loosely united, capable of defence, but not yet of conquest.

Here, also, is a rough draft of the Era dates:
The Iron Age – between the starting date, 400CE, and the time when non-Roman culture advanced in Europe, around 1000CE.

The Medieval Era – between 1000CE and the advent of Gunpowder in Europe, around 1400CE.

The Gunpowder Age – between 1400CE and 1500CE.

The Renaissance – between 1500CE and 1650CE.

The Age of Reason (this is now the Imperial Age I believe?) – between 1650CE and 1840CE.

The Industrial Age – between 1840CE and 1960CE

The Information Age – between 1960CE and 2030CE

The Space Age – between 2030CE and the End of the Mod…

The Web-Site
Let me be clear from the start: the current site serves its purpose excellently. This is really just a ramble. I have been considering the organisation of the site, and some possible features to add. As the factions get more and more detailed we will need to give each its own page within the site I think. The factions would have a hub page with all the Icons positioned on a world map, when you click on the icon you go to a page with a description of that faction and a brief history of that culture to the present day (where applicable). There would also be a map showing their starting location here.

Below this would be a link to the units and technology section. This would be presented as a timeline with the historical advances present in the mod shown in black and the imagined ones shown in a different colour. To see a unit, building or technology description and pictures simply click on the title of the concerned and a window will pop up with the information and next and previous arrows at the bottom. The timeline would show, by colour coding the different eras and would have four levels one on top of the other. These levels would be Military, Socio-Religious, Technological and Structural.

That's the next big and pointless step to make I think. Its entirely for show (but image and publicity are important), and Richy, I'll find someone who can specialise in maintaining such a site if you wish.

[richyg13]

Web-Site - I can personally do all that, its just time consuming, i was considering a revamp at some point. I should code it more in Java rather than HTML, im using the site now just to get all the info together in one place but indeed i do agree with such a site design. If you want to get some1 else to manage the site thats fine as it takes that little bit of work off me.

BI - better as it allows more moddability.

Chinese Symbols - I cant see them there, characters sound good tho, i considered using them for the Hellastanics as the Symbol ive tried to use looks rly bad.

Descriptions - they are slightly out of date, a revamp would go down well.

The Ages - I see the steel age has been removed completly, probably a wise move, it does however allow for the addition of another age in there somewhere if you wish. I renamed AoR to Imperial cus it sounded more global and not fixed to any particular age. Maybe the extra age can divide up the Industrial Age to allow different weapons for WW1 and 2 periods. Dates, however, are great!

More updates soon... I think korn wants some direction onto what next to model so it would be worth thinking about this.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 -
Chinese Symbols - http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_32083.jpg

Web Site - I s'pose the only question then is whether you think its worth getting someone else or if you think you can do it on the side. If you'd rather focus on skins then I'll look around for someone.

Descriptions - use the old style or the current then?

The Ages - Yes, it might be good to have the Industrial Age split... Perhaps the second half could be 1900-1960? We could call it the Nationalist Age or something.

kornsoadhts - I'd just keep makin' new models from those Mayan concepts I posted a little while back. Also, once you've finished those, if you look at page one, it might be good to make some of that Indian full body armour. There are also some Sikh horsemen there I think and a Tibetan horse armour picture. They are all in black and white though... I think I've got a pic of the Indian suit in colour. I'll scan that and send it. The full suit of armour is for a later era though (I think its 19th century), but we can still use it perhaps for some Medieval and Gunpowder Age troops.

Here's the first of the faction histories/descriptions - I'm not sure if it can be applied to both categories, if not I'll write a proper description as well - (it may be a little long, but come on; its hard to condense a couple o' thousand years into that many paragraphs):

The Western Roman Empire
The site of the Eternal City of Rome is believed to have first been inhabited some 3,400 years ago. In Roman legend, the city was ruled between 753 and 509 BCE by seven kings beginning with Romulus and ending with the corrupt Etruscan, Tarquinius Superbus [check name]. In around 500 BCE, the city of Rome became independent of Etruria after driving out its last king. Under the rule of the Senate and using the military and architectural technology of the now fallen Etruscans, the Roman state expanded throughout the Italic Peninsula and onto the island of Sicily, despite the best efforts of the Greek tyrants of Syracuse to repel them.

These new conquests brought Rome into direct contact with another Republic; the Republic of Carthage. After two brutal wars for control of Sicily’s rich pastures, in the 3rd Century BCE, the Carthaginian general Hannibal Barca led his armies over the Alps from Carthaginian territories in Iberia, and was the first to threaten Rome’s fledgling empire. Hannibal was defeated, however, and after several more defeats the Carthaginian Empire was eradicated with the total destruction of its chief city, Carthage, in 146 BCE.

In the same year, the threat of the Macedonians was stamped out, and by the same man who had crushed Carthage; Scipio Aemilianus Africanus. Greek resistance was swiftly ended with the sack of Corinth.

Rome now held the Iberian, Italic and Greek Peninsulas as well as large territory in North Africa. For many years Rome was terribly unstable and civil war was a constant concern. Between 58 and 44 BCE Rome’s greatest general, Gaius Julius Caesar, captured territory in Gaul and significantly reduced the power of the Gallic tribes in the process. Caesar, in 55 BCE even landed in Britannia, though a presence was not maintained there. In 44, in a bid for personal power, and some say the crown of a monarch, Caesar was proclaimed Dictator Perpetuo (dictator for life). This appointment could have ended years of civil strife, but, above all else, the Romans hated monarchy and so Caesar was stabbed to death by his Republican opponents.

Later, his adopted son Octavian led a Second Triumvirate (an alliance between three generals, the first of which had been formed by Julius Caesar) in his own bid for power. After many victories, Octavian added Egypt to the Empire and was dubbed Princeps (first citizen), Pater Patriae (father of the country) and, in 27 BCE, Augustus (exalted one). In the years up to his death, Augustus, now uncontested Imperator led Rome into an era of peace and strong morals, and left a state secure enough to withstand the ravages of several corrupt 1st Century CE emperors. In this century, after the corruption reeked on Rome by the puppet emperor Tiberius and the disastrous rule of Gaius Caligula, the emperor Claudius I added Southern Britannia and Wales to the empire.

During this period, Rome's army and tactics had become the finest in Europe. The maxim of the Roman army was one which stressed speed, discipline and versatility over brute force of numbers.

After centuries of a slow but steady decline, the Roman Empire was split, with the re-founding of Byzantium as Constantinople and the constant incursions of the Goths and Vandals. The Western Empire lasted but 200 years through this turmoil and in 476 CE the last Roman emperor, Romulus Augustus abdicated to a barbarian warlord.

Rome was later retaken by the emperor Justinian, but never again was it the centre of any nation greater than Italy. Since then, the region of Latium has been the centre of the Kingdom of Italy and the Papacy, and some would say that ideological control of the Catholic Church is a far greater power than the military control of Europe.

In the early 20th Century CE, a system of government, named after the symbol of ancient Roman magistracy, was founded and Italy was brought under the control of the Fascist, Mussolini, who modeled himself and his rule on Italy’s ancient state.

and another (I'll probably add to this later):
The Hellenistic States
The rulers of Greece for centuries were the Dorians who invaded from the north across the Balkans bringing with them the Greek Dark Ages, a period of political and cultural upheaval. The Greek cities had before been united, legendarily mounting the assault on Troy as a single power. After this Dark Age passed, a stronger collection of city states arose, among them Sparta, Corinth and Athens. In the 7th Century BCE the two latter cities began a period of organised colonisation and founded cities such as Syracuse and Byzantium, and in so doing, expanded the influence of Greek culture throughout the eastern Mediterranean.

During this time the Greeks first encountered the Persian Empire, which controlled all of the Middle-East. After another three centuries of internal bickering, the son of King Phillip of Macedon, Alexander III brought the rest of Greece under Macedonian control. After this unprecedented conquest, Alexander took Egypt – later the Ptolemaic Empire, under the influence of the Ptolemy whom Alexander made king. Alexander then defeated the king of Persia Darius and claimed all of Asia Minor as his kingdom. Megas Alexandros (Alexander the Great) was now his name and he proclaimed himself King of Asia. His wars were not done though, and so on he went, over the Hindu Kush and into India beyond which point his men refused to fight. Alexander then returned to Babylon and died, most believe, of alcohol poisoning.

Alexander left in his wake the Seleucid Empire, his realm in Asia, with its capital in Antioch, and a weakened Greece, ripe for conquest by the Romans. There followed a period of Greek supplication, which ended only with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and the establishment of a Greek speaking Eastern Empire: the Second Great Hellenistic Civilisation – the first being the empire of Alexander.

The Greek city states had brought forth some of the world’s most enduring thought. In Athens, democratic rule had given power to the common citizen, removing the effective but easily corrupted tyrants who still ruled Corinth and Syracuse. Athens too had been a hub of philosophical thought, indeed, even once the power of the Attic Empire in the Aegean Sea had waned, Athens remained a place of knowledge and learning. The city states had also created the standard style for all grand architecture in Europe, as well as the mathematical theorems which still dictate our thought today.

[richyg13]

Well i dont mind doing the site on the side, its something nice and pretty to do wen i cant be bothered with texturing :P Ive started to come up with plans for the new design anyway :P

I'll make the two chinese faction icons now.

That history is perfect and adds real content for the site :)
I'll write an additional small description next to that then for gameplay specific elements. i.e. the pros and cons that the faction has.

As concerns that industrial age split (nationalist age is a good name by the way)

my opinion -
industrial age 1840 to 1920 (after wwi has ended)
nationalist age 1920 to 1960 (includes wwii technology)

[kornsoadhts]

we should get somebody to make a new exe file for the mod that would load exactly like rtw BI but instead it has our icon and leads to /AoM/Data instead of bi/data, this way the player can choose whether they feel like playing rtw, rtwbi, or rtwAoM. and I can make an easy-to-use install file so even the mentally challneged can download our mod. how does that sound?

[CplTony]

Hiya everyone. Im realy loving the way this thing is coming together and if you pull it off it should just be amazing. Anyway i was wondering if i might give my services to this cause. Like my sig says, i take a keen interest into the Americas and their civilisation and have recently been to Chitchinitza and Tulum (mayan temple ruins and cities, Tulum a port town, both near Cancun) and have learnt a lot about their culture that I would like to share with you to help with the ideas for buildings and units as well as cultural things.
Finaly i could aslo help in the concept drawings if it is needed
Please let me know if there is any specific thing that I could be getting busy with and helping out on.
Kind regards and thanks in advance,
Tony

[richyg13]

I think that Lonely will allow me to take you on :)
any help is always welcome on a project this big.

yes we cud do with some concepts for mayan and incan culture in particular, buildings and that mostly now as our unit lists are pretty much completed for these factions.

[Lonely Soldier]

kornsoadhts - That would be a good idea! So BI does allow for multiple data folders then?

CplTony - That would be absolutely great! Your sig says that you have knowledge of North America - and coincidently, I have next to none on that region - so that would be most useful! Welcome aboard. If you want to join the team officially just join the ModDb, give me your precise name there and I'll add you. Would you like to be credited as a concept artist and researcher or just a researcher?

richyg13 -
That history is perfect and adds real content for the site :)
I'll write an additional small description next to that then for gameplay specific elements. i.e. the pros and cons that the faction has. - Thanks! I think really all we need to say is stuff like "good cavalry, strong heavy infantry" etc.

Those dates sound good too. Do you think we should add the new faction descriptions all at once when they are all finished or stagger them and make them an update feature? It'll probably take me a little while if they are all that long - it'll end up all together as something like 13,000 words give or take. Maybe they should be something we add when the new site is ready?

I think we should have a think about the site's new look - I might post some other sites or pictures and things we could use as reference for the style. We could possibly give each faction its own design scheme? Either that or make a relatively neutral one for all of them.

By the way, could you post all the updated faction icons on the site when they're done, I think there are a few missing at the moment.

Have we had any thoughts on the colours for the factions (only for borders and mini-map really)?

[richyg13]

Faction Icons List -

http://images5.theimagehosting.com/allicons.gif (http://www.theimagehosting.com)

Read by Section - top left to bottom right

Romans (Red and Gold), Hellastanics (Cream and Black), Germans (Black and Yellow), British (Red and White), French (Blue and White), Spanish (Yellow and Red), Slavs (Dark Red and Dark Yellow), Austro-Hungarians (White and Red), Sassanids (Gold and Brown).

The Apache (White and Dark Grey), The Crow (White and Black), The Iroqoius (White and Very Dark Grey), Meso-Americans (Yellow and Green), The Inca (White and Gold)

The Qi (Dark Red and White), The Wei (Purple and White), Mongols (Yellow and Black), Japanese (Green and Dark Yellow), Champans (Red and Blue), Guptas (Purple and Gold).

These are the basis for the final versions, hellastanics is likely to change cus i dont like the way it looks. All of them need glossy/shiny finishes made to them.

I'll compile them onto the site tomorrow.

[kornsoadhts]

im pretty sure BI does not support multiple data folders. what im saying is we can get some1 to copy the BI exe file and change the directory so it loads only mod units and such. So it would sorta be like adding another expansion pack to the game. this way when ppl want to play they will have a rome total war icon, a Barbarian Inavasion icon, and a Age of Mankind icon on their desktop. We can always copy and paste any untis that are going to be in the mod that are included with either game into the new Age of Mankind directory.

this is what the hierarchy of the rtw folder would look like

Rome Total War (contains everything below)
- Data (contains regular rtw data)
- BI (contains only new Barbarian invasion data

- Data
- AoM (contains Age of Mankind Data only)

- Data
-RomeTW.exe (regular rtw executable file)
-RomeTW-BI.exe (Barbarian Invasion executable file)
-RomeTW-AoM.exe (Age of Man Mod executable file)

[Helgi]

WOW, This is going to be a good mod, ~:cheers:

[kornsoadhts]

Good idea for a new unit:

England (1650s)
Oliver Cromwell's (leader of the "New Model Army")
Iron Side Cavalry
Soldiers who rode on horses and used pistols, they had hard leather breastplates and plates of iron on each side of their rib cage to protect that weak spot. They wore boots up to their knees to protect their legs. Thats all i remember from class today. See if u would consider this as a unit.

information on tlaxcalan shield designs
http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/1492/mexico/painting_guide_shields.htm

very good historical information about tlaxcalan archers and the aztecs as well. 80% of the 50,000 tlaxcalan warriors on the field was archers. The other units used their shields to protect the archers and themselves.
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba105/dba105.html

Lonely if u could write me a descr and short_descr for the tlaxcalan warriors i would be done with them cause thats all i have left to do

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - OK thanks for that! Is it possible yo have two colour borders and territory indications? For the territory indicator we could have the trim in one colour and the 'body' in another? I'm not really sure about having the difference between the native American colours as shades of grey...

Helgi - ~:)

kornsoadhts - That unit idea sounds good to me! Here's the Tlaxcalan descriptions:

Normal: These warriors hail from the Mayan client state of Tlaxcala and are armed with the usual obsidion edged war club and wooden, round shield. They also wear quilted cloth armour which gives limited protection against blunt weapons. Only the finest Tlaxcalan warriors will find their way into the ranks of an army of the Mesoamerican Alliance, and these men are among those chosen.

Short: These skilled warriors hail from the Mayan client state of Tlaxcala and are armed with the usual obsidion edged war club and wooden, round shield.

[richyg13]

Yes, the first colour i named is the Primary or Body colour, the second colour is Secondary or Trim colour. The primary colour is used for the tooltip outline in battles. secondary is the outline and primary is the fill for the mini-map.

my idea for the shades of grey was to allow the NA factions to have their uniformity, however it can be changed in a mater of minutes :)


I found a realy cool rendering effect for the faction icons, I'll post an example in a bit, ive also got an example faction page for the romans which you can have a look at.

[richyg13]

Roman Symbol with new Lighting Effect
https://img435.imageshack.us/img435/7444/romansymbollights3dn.gif (https://imageshack.us)


New Style Faction Page set-up
each faction has their own page with this basic style...

http://www.dhost.info/crazypaul2k4/row_ageofmankind/factions/romans.htm

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - That is a good lighting effect - we only need to apply it to the flatter ones I reckon! The Gupta and Sassanid icons are fine for example. And the expanded faction page is good! I'll give you the address of a good online timeline page in a while to model the eventual timeline on. I figure we can do away with a technology tree and have the timeline show virtually all the info. We could even make it roll-out when you pass your cursor over each of the four timeline categories or something.

[kornsoadhts]

i edited the tlaxcalan warriors, i hope u likethe change
https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3915/tlaxcallanedited8tl.th.jpg (https://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tlaxcallanedited8tl.jpg)

[CplTony]

Hey again
Thanks for the thumbs up and to answer your question Lonely Soldier, yes i probably will draw some concept sketches with my research
Now for some background knowledge of Mesoamerica:
Traditionally, or at least for a majority of the time before the Spanish Conquisition, the main tribes, Incas and Mayan's lived separate. The Mayan's being the educated and civil tribe living mostly in the center of Mexico, had a effective economy, with jade and obsidium (sp?) mining in the volcanic mountains, they were also known for their short stature, maybe half the height of an 'average human'. The Incas, were the costal dwelers famed for their sacrifices to appease the gods. However, at some time (I'll look for the date) the two tribes were introduced and the Mayans decended into the same babarity as the Inca's. I assume this was around the time of the Spanish invasion as it made sense. Coastal Inca towns attacked, people retreat, discover Mayan's in jungle.

Next..... religion and temples ( got lots of lovely piccys :) )

[CplTony]

I have gone for Mayan buildings as they combine simplistic with grandiose, which could reflect both tribes (Inca's too)

A sketch of a small Mayan temple (maybe for use as 'Shrine' Image after work of Ps?)
https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3555/tulumgiff1sm.th.jpg (https://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tulumgiff1sm.jpg)

The Great Temple of Chitchin Itza, the 'capital' of Mayan civilisation. This should be the 'Pantheon' level and a smaller scale would do for the 'Awesome Temple' and 'Large Temple' ( or the one under awesome)
https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9282/chichenitza4gh.th.jpg (https://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chichenitza4gh.jpg)

Mayan Church. This could be used for the religious building after Shrine
https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/2090/maya229bz.th.jpg (https://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maya229bz.jpg)

Random Houses for use on the battle map
https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3086/b199zo.th.jpg (https://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b199zo.jpg)https://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9679/b805wo.th.jpg (https://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b805wo.jpg)

I hope this helps
Good luck
Tony

[richyg13]

@Lonely
I'll add that effect to all the icons that require it then so that they sont look so dull. Sassanid and Gupta will remain unchanged. You'll have to show me what u mean with timeline just so i dnt get the wrong idea.

@Korn
thats an nice, altho small, improvement to the tlaxcalans. you alright with that shield texture? i know the red doesnt rly show up that well, its cus i added a wood effect to the shield and it dulled the red a bit more than it should have in reality.


known for their short stature, maybe half the height of an 'average human'.
guess that means u need to make them shorter then mate lol. average height in britain about 6 foot (im under hehe, 5' 9")




we're seriously gna need another team member to make those buildings, its gna be too much work for me and korn to do alone. nice references tho thanks tony *thumbs up*

[kornsoadhts]

it shouldnt be too hard to makethem shorter, ill just have to make new sprites for every actiona they can possibly do which will be very time consuming. The only way i know of making models shorter or taller effectively is to edit the sprites to make them longer or shorter.

@richy - ill resend u the and i might as well send lonely all the files for the tlaxcalan unit. u can edit the texture for me so the shield is not as bright and the red sticks out more. and also i would need u to redo the back and under the "package cloth" so it matches the color of the hanging cloth in the front.

o and im so proud of the fact that i got the cloth to sway when the model moves and such, i didnt realize it but i accidently weighted the vertices to the cloak_bottom bone so it sways like the cloak would

[richyg13]

@korn
WOW! with the cloth moving!! that will look awesome!!!!

oh i dont know why but on my PC your tlaxcalan sprites looked all wrong.

send the files next time u see me online or mail me, whatever is easier :)

----

German Double Handed Axemen:

https://img349.imageshack.us/img349/1043/daxemen5yr.gif (https://imageshack.us)

[al'Callaendor]

very good faction icons:thumbsup:

[Lonely Soldier]

al'Callaendor - Thanks! Nice one Richy!

kornsoadhts - looking good! Can we also make the edges of the club black not white? The moving cloth will look great too!

CplTony - That's useful information! Are you sure that the Inca and Maya ever met? Didn't the Maya fall in around 600CE? Maybe the Inca met the Aztecs or something as they were contemporaries.


Unit Heights - Though I am all for historical accuracy, I think it would seem a little wierd to most people if the Mesoamericans were hobbit-sized, even if they really were that small - my vote is for leaving them as they are.

richyg13 - I'll see if I can get someone to specialise in buildings. I like the axeman!

Timeline - something like this (but in a different visual style) http://www.rom.on.ca/egypt/case/timeline/ - running horizontally anyway. Same style whereby you click on a point of interest and a pop-up with the info appears. We would have two timelines one on top of the other (perhaps with lines joining particular advances across and within the timelines as a replacement for the tech tree?): Socio-Religious (Government and religious buildings and events) and Military (military buildings (with units produced shown in the pop-up) and events (invention of gunpowder etc.)).

Ideally the timeline/s would scroll within the page like this: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/splash.htm .

I really like the style of the Art History one, and the way when you click on an era it gives you the world map from which to choose a region. Ours would work just the opposite way: Click on the faction then go to the timeline, then on the timeline click on whichever development you're interested in.

The Austro Hungarians - Do we really need them? Perhaps they should emerge in central Europe at a particular date or something, because they didn't really exist coherently until the late 17th century did they? I'd like to include, but they are slightly jarring to me.

[richyg13]

Some of that web site ideas ur looking at will require some1 who can work with flash or shockwave, i cant :( wish i knew how and i dnt have the time to learn on top of everything else. ur gna need a web designer too then.

The Austrians play a large part of Napoleonic war and in 18th Centuary warfare, they can in the early ages be a very weak country with simple weaponary mirroring the French and Germans or have gallic influences perhaps??

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - I'll have a look 'round for a full-time web-designer then.

Austro-Hungarians: Could we have them emerge? Or not have them at all, I know they were important in the 19th century but that's 1500 years after the mod starts - that's a long time to survive through without any real power.

Here's the Inca description (its somewhat shorter than the others so I'll probably come back to it):
The Inca
The prosperous empire of the Inca was founded by the legendary figure, Manco Capac after the Andean tribes migrated to Peru in the 11th Century CE. Throughout the next centuries the new Inca state subdued its neighbours and so expanded its territory towards the coast, adding the valuable ceramic making skills of the Moche people to their empire; a tremendous boon to their economy. At theBeginning of the 14th Century under the king Inca-Roca, wars with the coastal Chancas Indians were beginning to seriously threaten the strength and stability of the new empire. During the reign of the next king, Yahuar-Huacoc, the empire suffered many defeats and so a new king was crowned to continue the war.

The next century brought much-needed territory in the north and south and, between 1438 and 1471 the Chancas were finally defeated and the Inca gained sovereignty from the Andes to the Pacific Coast. In 1530, after the reign of the Inca’s greatest emperor, Huayna Capac, the empire was split between his two sons; it would never again reach the same heights.

Between 1532 and 1572, the arrival of the Spanish conquistador, brought the slow death of the Inca civilization. Though the empire died, and the sovereignty of the Grand Inca was forever at an end, the people of the region still maintain the culture of their forebears in music, ceramics and textiles.

In their heyday the Inca were master stonemasons, vastly superior to any others in the world. The Andes, where the Inca built many settlements, were prone to earthquakes and yet their dry-stone walls stand to this day. The Inca also mastered the use of terraces in agriculture and developed advanced irrigation systems which Europeans would have last seen in the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. They were also keen astronomers and mathematicians. The Inca religion centred on worship of the sun-god, Inti, and, as in many other cultures, the ruler was seen as the descendant of this god. The Inca also worshipped gods of rain and wind, a hallmark of any agriculture dependant society.

[CplTony]

Lonely Soldier - Oops sorry. Yes the Mayans didnt meet the Inca's. It was a tribe called the Toldo's. These were the taller evil, human sacrificing natives

My mistake. Im also going through some tutorials for modding. Is there anything in specific I should be learning about?

Tony

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - Whichever aspects of modding you are most interested in - I'd base my decision on that. We could do with a fully fledged mapper probably. Though you'd only be making minor alterations.

I'll be doing music and sound I think, as that's about the limit of my skill in coding etc. We've got a skinner and a modeller/skinner but we could always do with more. Best of luck with the learning process ~:cheers: .

[CplTony]

Thanks Lonely Soldier I wouldnt mind turning my unskilled hand to a bit of skinning, but from what i gather you need 3DS Max and something along the lines of photoshop, both of which are quite expensive, is there another, cheaper (possibly free ;) ) way of doing some skinning? Also just a suggestion, is 3 north american tribes a bit of over-kill as they will mostly be consisting of similar units, couldn't we just amalgamate all the tribes into one and call them something like Native Americans' of the Red Indian Tribes' etc
just my opinion.

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - You'd have to ask Richy or Korn about the skinning stuff. The three Native American factions... I'm not sure we do need all three, but what would we replace them with? I think we've got a good spread as is, but having three which are almost the same may be a slight problem I s'pose. It's just that America is such a large area, it'd be a shame if to conquer it as a Native American faction you only needed to fight rebels.

Cultures - It looks like we can have one extra culture in BI giving us seven. What should we add?

[richyg13]

hey all... sorry aint posted in a few days... been just busy with well... life lol. got smashed on friday night, had football saturday (and went out to the cinema) and work today.

Austro-Hungarians, they are a must... remember the 'Hungarians' part is just as important as they were an influencial nation during the medieval period, its why i half wonder if Poland should be included with them. They dont even have to be in the initial release if you dnt want.

Native-Americans, got to have them all simply cus the americas have no factions so its a must realy.

if you want to skin u can do it in any art package that supports .DDS files. Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro id recomend. add my msn and ill show u where you can get a good deal on getting either. - richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com
... u dnt need max.

[Lonely Soldier]

RichyG13 - I'm okay with the Austro-Hungarians now~:) . I'd forgotten about their role in the middle ages:embarassed: .

[CplTony]

Yea I see what you mean Lonely Soldier, but maybe there is some culture that we could add that would be close enough to America, im not sure but maybe a tribe of the caribbean of eskimos in the north of canada (hee hee - eskimos!) I m just throwing ideas around, but somewhere theres got to be a nation which could pose a threat against the indians because if not, youd have virtually identical units fighting each other, unless you give each faction special units and early on.
Just a thought but we need to sort out how to deal with the indian problem

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - I think we need to have 'em all even if they are similar. We have to remember the unit and culture limits placed on us. The native americans will probably end up working much as the six or so barbarian factions worked in R:TW - they were all pretty much identical except for one or two special units. It would be nice to have an Inuit or Carrib faction, but unless they were very similar to the native American factions themselves they would drain valuable units from more important factions.

I think, as soon as possible, we need to do a final lock-down of the factions. I'll post a poll, if you like, listing the current ones and people can vote either to keep those or they can propose changes, which will be assessed historically. Or we could, of course, decide among ourselves.

I reckon most people will be in favour of the current list, as all the major powers of the world are in there, especially with the USA as an emerging faction.

[CplTony]

Ok
now for some background on Native american religions processes. This is and extract from this website:http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/naspirit.html

II. Beliefs
The general characteristics and origins of Native American religion shed light upon the more contemporary sects. But the development of the numerous individual traditions, passed down orally, remains unclear. The sheer number of groups and the diversity of the nuances of belief complicates matters further.

The religions do share some common tendencies. Religion tends to be closely related to the natural world. The local terrain is elevated with supernatural meaning, and natural objects are imbued with sacred presences. Ceremonial rituals involving these supernatural-natural objects are meant to ensure communal and individual prosperity (Lamphere, 339). These common underlying features unite a diversity of contemporary Native American sects.

The original hunting knowledge brought with the first North American immigrants became influenced or usurped altogether by new horticultural religious influences. Animal ceremonialism, the quest for spiritual power, Male Supreme Being, annual ceremony of cosmic rejuvenation, few stationary cult places, shamanism, and life after death beyond the horizon or in the sky were tenets of hunting pattern religions. Rain and fertility ceremonies, priestly ritual, goddesses and gods, yearly round of fertility rites, permanent shrines and temples, medicine society ritualism, and life after death in the underworld or among the clouds characterized the new horticultural pattern religions (Hultkrantz, 14).

Ceremony plays a vital, essential role in Native American religions. Whereas western religions typically consider ceremony the servant of theology, Native American religions barely recognize the distinction between myth and ritual. Often the ritual proves to be established and secure while the myth is vague and unclear. Indian ceremonies grew up within local groups; some elements of Indian ceremonials have been traced back to the Old World. The ceremonies were adapted locally, using both traditional and borrowed elements, to suit local needs (Underhill, 4). These ceremonies often began as practical actions. Indians were eager to embrace ceremonies or portions of ceremonies that provided power to conquer the difficulties of life. As these practices developed, they were modified and imbued with additional meanings and purposes (Underhill, 7).

The medicine men and priests among the Indians were usually merely those men who thought more deeply and strenuously than the average men in the tribe. These thinkers tended to live among the more successful tribes. To think, one needed at least some time free from the chore of procuring food. These medicine men or shamans were in a different class than the other men of their tribe. This special status was not dependent on their hunting and fishing. Contact with other tribes enabled thinkers to build and expand their belief frameworks, so shamans were more prevalent in tribes that were accessible to outsiders.

As contemporary Native American religious flowerings are best understood by first examining the origins of Native American Spirituality, all of the contemporary sects are best comprehended in light of the traditional religions. As these differ from their New Age and Christian versions, each group is also unique compared to other traditional sects. These traditional sects are best understood as a conglomerate by investigating a few individual traditional Native American religions.

Hmm Medicine men and shamans. I think that we should either have a troop ,not necessarily for magic, but morale boosting , of these or they could be a retinue member much like the Chirugeon (sp?)
Like the way the website is coming on, but i cant see the pictures
Cya
Tony

[richyg13]

Hmm Medicine men and shamans. I think that we should either have a troop ,not necessarily for magic, but morale boosting , of these or they could be a retinue member much like the Chirugeon (sp?)


There is of course the chanting ability which we can use as a morale boost, or they can give a boost using the 'Eagle' standard... i was gna use this to represent the Company/Battalion Colours unit for a faction (gives morale bonus to all units around, demoralizes units if it is captured). You look to the naopoleonic period where capturing the enemy colours was a real glory grabber, an interesting concept i think :) Rome does allow for this feature as its already incorporated.

[CplTony]

capturin enemy colours? ive never seen that done, unless its a feature in BI, which i reeli need to get :(

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - More good stuff there! I agree that medicine men should be a retinue bonus.

RichyG13 - That's a good point about the "Eagle" standards as well.

[richyg13]

its in RTW as well as BI. The Legionary Eagle can be captured by the enemy. my point is we can use the eagle to represent the enemy's colours, so the Colour carrying unit has the "Eagle" attribute attached to it... I can remove the Eagle graphic attached in battles if required.

[Lonely Soldier]

AoM Team - I've had two applications for Web related stuff! One offered to do us a flash/shockwave site, and the other to maintain forums - should I take the forum guy up on the offer? Or should I ask another moderator here for hosting? I'm not sure we need private forums anyway.

RichyG13 - I think we should do away with the banners entirely, simply by having them switched off by default in the preferences.txt. I posted a poll on this in the Mod Discussion forum and only one person in 5 wanted banners. The idea of having distinctive 'colours' for certain units is great! It'll add a lot to the Napoleonic Battles. Also, by having no banners, we'll be able to have banners which are accurate to that unit and to its region and historical context.

[CplTony]

Bout the website. I dont think that we really need either. At the moment we are just a small group, if we had a huge troop of modders like RTR, then a website would be good as we could have sperate forums for each aspect of the game. And the flash thing. Its just fanciful. In my opinion a clean well planned website is better than a flash one
Also on the website i cant view the units that Richy has created, is this becasue the snaps havent been uploaded or is there some error

[Dave00]

~:cheers: hey all :) here i am lonely S :bow:

the website guy:dizzy2:

[Dave00]

hmm, yaeh, i cant do anything in shockwave, i can do a html one, like you said, but i could add some reflecting text or somthing like that, a magic button :bow:

[Lonely Soldier]

Dave00 - Which Dave are you? Sounds good though! I'll get back to you with some specifics in a bit.

CplTony - I don't see the harm in making the website nicer looking. If someone applies we might as well do as much as with can with our resources, even if the site is not a vital component.

[Dave00]

im the one who sent you the email ~;)

[Lonely Soldier]

Dave00 - ~:) .

The Structure of the Website
The main page will be a map of the globe with each of the faction icons positioned on that faction's capital city. Each icon will be a link to a page with that faction's history, information on how they play, a run-down of their units and a timeline (all of which will be provided to you).

Also on the world map, the different regions will be seperated by border lines and clicking on each will bring up a general description of it and a short guide to fertility of soil, terrain and climate.

Here are the region descriptions:

South America – The mighty Andes Mountains run north-south along the east Coast of this continent. This is where the Inca make their home, constructing roads and bridges through the treacherous height of the mountains and cutting massive terraces in which to grow maize, the region’s staple. In the west, the Amazon Jungle covers the vast expanse beyond the mountains, the Amazon River flows through this dense jungle, bringing forth a plethora of flora and fauna found nowhere else.

Climate - Varies between extreme cold in the alpine regions, to humid heat in the low-lands, particularly near the Amazon River. Alpine regions can be made cultivable, but considerable labour is required. Forestation of the central and eastern lowlands makes advanced agriculture difficult.

Terrain - Very mountainous in the west, lowlands are almost entirely forested.

Mesoamerica – Mesoamerica joins the northern and southern Americas. Here in the humid rainforests the Maya, and many other tribes, have settled and prospered, drawing on the region’s fertility and abundant natural resources to sustain themselves.

Climate - Hot and humid, generally wet. Agriculture is relatively easy.

Terrain - Yucatan Peninsula is flat and heavily forested.

North America – North America is a remarkably varied landmass, from rolling plains to towering mountains and lush forests, it is a land of diversity. In the south-west, desert dominates and in the near-constantly frozen north pine-forests spring up. In the east are the Iroquois, to the north the Crow and in the south are the Apache.

Climate - Variable. Ideally suited to agriculture in many areas, others are too cold or dry.

Terrain - Variable. Mountainous in the west, flat in the mid-west. Forested in the east and north.

Europe – Europe’s fertile soil and agreeable climate have made it a hub of social development throughout history, particularly around the Mediterranean coast. Europe is a small area geographically, but is still highly varied: the heat of Italy and Greece is in stark contrast to the bitter cold of northern Europe and Britain. The Western Roman Empire and the Hellenistic world both began and live on here, while the barbarian tribes – Britons, Franks, Spaniards, Germans and Hungarians – hold back waiting for a time to strike.
Several of Europe’s landforms are ideal defensively: Italy is defended to the north by the Alps, Britannia by the Channel and the Black Sea by the Hellespont.

Climate - Generally cool and wet in the north, hot and dry in the Mediterranean Summer, wet in the Winter. Both areas are ideally suited to growing different crops. Black Sea is one of the 'Granaries of the Ancient World'.

Terrain - Variable. Mountainous in Spain, northern Italy and Greece.

Asia – The continent of Asia technically begins in Turkey, making it a truly massive area, comprising India, China, Mongolia and the islands of the south-east and Japan. Here the Gupta and Champa Empires are rising, the former in the hot, wet centre of India and the latter in the jungles of what will become Vietnam and Cambodia. China’s rich pastures and vast resources are divided between two warring kingdoms, the Wei and the Qi. China has been a centre of learning and technology for many centuries past, presumably due to its large population and rich supplies of natural resources. The islands of Japan are almost entirely mountainous, making agricultural land scarce. Earthquakes are also common, making building on sloping ground perilous. The western half of Japan has recently been united by the Yamato clan, while the rest is controlled by rebel warlords. The Mongols make their impermanent dwellings on the steppe of Central Asia, and live a life of subsistence entirely dependant on their horses, this has, of course, made them excellent horsemen.

Climate - Generally wet and hot in summer in the east and south. Cold in the north. Generally ideal climates for growing rice exist throughout the region in wet lowlands. Jungle in parts of India and the south-east.

Terrain - Variable. Himalayas seperate India from the rest of Asia. Hindu Kush seperates India from the Near East. Japan: mountainous. China and Mongolia, largely flat, some exceptions.

The Near East – the Tigris-Euphrates river system is the life blood of this region, which has always produced grain of the highest quality. Many civilisations have risen and fallen along the Twin Rivers and on the coast of the Caspian Sea to the north. Now the Sassanid Empire stakes its claim to this area, and to the deserts of Arabia and the Marshes of the gulf. To the north, forming a barrier between the Caspian and Black Seas are the Zagros Mountains, a useful defence against any who would threaten the northern border of the Empire.

Climate - Generally hot and dry throughout the year. Hot and humid at the mouth of the river system. Cold in the mountains. Twin Rivers are ideally suited to growing wheat. Arabia and much of the Near East is desert.

Terrain - Variable. Hindu Kush seperates the Near East from India. Northern mountains seperate Near East from the Steppe.

On the main page there will also be a link at the bottom centre of the screen to a page about the team, which RichyG13 has already begun, and is now up-to-date I believe. And a second link to a progress report, which Richy has already compiled.

There should also be a link to a page on Religion somewhere.

Just ask me for any information you need and I'll rustle it up, though the faction histories may be a little slow to get to you (there are 20 of them and each is about 500 words).

[Lonely Soldier]

What do people think about having varying prices for technologies between factions? For example, for the Chinese to get gunpowder, it would be very cheap, but it would be extremely expensive for the Mesoamericans and Inca.
This is just a possible way to limit the advances of factions, particularly for the AI, to a somewhat historical level.

Here is a concept for some Mesoamerican muskets (thanks Bishop Six!):
http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_32486.jpg
I rather like the middle and bottom ones, there's something about the circular butt I quite like.

I'd also like to inform everyone that we now have private forums (at http://s14.invisionfree.com/Age_of_Mankind/index.php?act=idx ), though this thread will also be maintained (I believe any Invision login will work at the private thread), and a new web-site, the address of which will be revealed publicly when it is completed.

[Bishop Six]

I think having the price vary between cultures makes sense historically, but how will it affect the play balance? Will the cultures who pay more for gunpowder have an advantage in other areas? Or will they just get totally dominated? But the mesoamericans probably won't be fighting the chinese that much... or will they?

I agree with your choice of muskets, Lonely Soldier. I think the circular butt helps to unify the design with other mesoamerican weapons(the obsidian edged clubs).

[Lonely Soldier]

Bishop Six - The Mesoamericans will have an advantage in unit sizes I would suggest, they will also have cheaper unit training costs - this will reflect their expansionist policies.

Richy's already made a musket unit, though it isn't animated, so I'll get him to rustle up some of those muskets for us.

By the way, If everyone in the team could please join the new forums we'll be able to have private discussions and also publish our work more coherently.

[richyg13]

Yeh i was trying to come up with some of my own designs for meso-american muskets and weirdly i came up with the same short musket style. I started to draw the way the unit would hold the gun and a design for the infantryman's hat.

I'll get some additional work done soon when i can get my head round things.

[Lonely Soldier]

richyg13 - I'd like to see those hats! I'm going to be focussing on descriptions and stuff for a little while now, just to flesh out what we've got already. In the mean time Richy, I was wondering if you could make some little icons for the different religions, to replace or add to the ones in BI which appear on the loyalty, law/order information scrolls; the small crosses and things.

These would be:

Judaism - Star of David

Christianity - Cross

Buddhism - Lotus Flower

Hinduism - not really sure... any ideas?

Taoism - Yin-Yang

Islam - Crescent Moon

Animism - I need to check precisely what this is; I can't remember whether it's the stuff about animal spirits, or about all things having a spirit (like trees and rocks and things)

Mesoamerican Religion - Temple Pyramid (simplified - just the step shapes or something? Silhouette?)

Inca Religion - worshipped the sun, moon and stars, so perhaps a combined symbol of all three?

I've just done the faction history for Japan, here it is:
The Japanese
In the year 4,000BCE the first known Japanese civilisation was flourishing, these people were the Jomon. The Jomon used simple tools and left behind them a legacy of agriculture and pottery. For three and a half thousand years the Jomon maintained their culture but in 500BCE the Yayoi rose to prominence with their metal tools and advanced society, although still based on agriculture. In the following centuries, often called the ‘Tomb Period’, clans sprang up and the most powerful of these was the Yamato Clan.

By 400CE the Yamato had conquered the western half of Honshu as well as Shikoku and Kyushu, and by the time of the introduction of Buddhism (in 522CE) they were undisputed rulers of much of Japan. Buddhism was not the only thing to come from the Asian mainland, with it came writing and political structures and legal theories from China.

Between 710 and 784, the Yamato founded their first capital at Nara, near what would become Kyoto, this began the Japanese Classical Period. The Heian era followed and brought with it the Japanese sensitivity to aesthetics. It also brought the world its first novel, the Tale of Genji, written by Lady Murasaki at the court of the new capital Heian-Kyo (which would become Kyoto).

The Heian Period ended in 1185, and its collapse saw the rise of the Shogun and of their warrior lords: the Samurai. These new rulers had their capital south of Tokyo at Kamakura, while the court of the Emperor remained in Kyoto, the emperor himself; a puppet of the warlords in Kamakura. After two centuries of inter-clan warfare and unrest, the Ashikaga Shogunate gained control of Japan and this warlord dynasty saw a renaissance of art and culture, strongly influenced by Samurai culture and Zen Buddhism.

In the year 1530, after the Onin War, Japan fell into a period of struggle which later came to be known as the Sengoku Jidai, the Age of the Country at War. For seventy years the Daimyo, lords of various clans, vied for superiority, and unification eventually came in the form of the general Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Tokugawa rule brought an end to Japan’s civil strife for two hundred and fifty years more, and during this time, Edo (Tokyo) became the capital of the Shogunate. This stability spurred a time of refinement of the Japanese culture, and a vibrant middle-class society was formed.

Stability was not to last while the world wanted Japan’s rich trade, and after pressure was applied by the American Admiral Perry, Japan’s seclusion ended. By 1868 Japan was once again under the rule of an Emperor, and rapid modernisation followed.

In the late 19th and the 20th Century Japan made many attempts at expanding its Empire; first into the north-west, against Russia, and then into China, where Japan’s warlike Emperor carried out brutal crimes of genocide of the Chinese people. The United States of America again presented a turning point in Japan’s history, halting their expansion into the Pacific and eventually using their new weapon, the atomic bomb, to crush Japanese resistance to invasion.

The next fifty years saw Japan’s final modernisation and westernisation. Its economy boomed and is strong to this day. Under a banner of passivism and unity Japan rivals even the wealthiest nations.

AoM Team
If anyone has new work they are posting, please put it here and on the private forum. There are now threads open for modelling, concepts and references in the Age of Mankind Modding section.
Thanks.

[Lonely Soldier]

I've rustled up a very rough layout for the homepage, the address of which will be revealed when the time comes... The colours are not final, though the division of the regions is relatively accurate, and the regions will be divided by two-colour borders anyway. The ModDb logo won't be on the final page ;). The faction icons are represented by four-pointed stars and the religion icons by lightning bolts :) :


http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_32593.gif

"The Team" button will lead to a page detailing the team members, much like the one we have already.

[CplTony]

For the Hindu religion you could have the Ohm symbol. Sorry I havent been participating, I've recently been in Kenya. didnt see to many tribes people (Masai) but saw enough of them to sketch some weapons (spear throwing and spear melee). They also didnt seem to have too much armour
Il see if i can upload the pics for you

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - we've ended up going with that, and Richy has made up some religion icons for the information scrolls:
http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/56/5620/gallery/water_32966.gif

[CplTony]

Oh rite i see now
Lonely Soldier - I see you've got a religion in Africa which i presume is Animism. You basically right in how you describe it. Animism comes from the latin anima meaning breath or soul and is the belief that everything has a spirit or soul, some have interpreted it in the form of a shadow or vapour and it passes from object to object some deep stuff there:bow: . This is what gives humans and animals life and that when something dies, its soul leaves it and goes somewhere else (this is how primitive man explained decomposition and withering of plants). However it was only labeled animism by Edward Taylor in 1871 so mabe we can find somewhere on the internet what the tribes in Africa called it.

Also I noticed that you have a religion in Africa but no faction. Is this deliberate or a mistake as it would seem pointless to have a religion for a place where you dont have a faction.

I would suggest, if the logistics allow it, to pick a well know tribe like the Zulu's, Anansi or Maasai and make them a faction or have something like the 'African Conglomerate States' or something

I found this website,Gateway Africa (http://www.gateway-africa.com/tribe/) which has loads of tribes and some of them have history and almost all of the ones with links have Poilitical systems, economy, and more importantly religion. There are also some pictures for the surviving tribes but for more pictures you might want to have a look at this site :African Tribes Photographed (http://www.culturesontheedge.com/gallery/archives/locations.html)

Hope this helps

Tony

[EdwardL]

no egyptians?

[al'Callaendor]

Yin & Yang!~D

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - Putting that religion in Africa was a mistake. Animism is going to be in North America and Japan (in Japan its Shintoism by the way).

EdwardL - Not in 400CE I'm afraid. Egypt was a part of the Roman empire between 32BCE and
300ish CE. After that it was a Byzantine province. For a few hundred years before the Roman annexation of Egypt it was controlled by successors of Alexander the Great's Empire; the Ptolemies. They were essentially Greeks and only when Cleopatra came to power were the Egyptian gods reinstated. The Egyptians shouldn't even be in Rome:TW as they are.

al'Callaendor - ~:)

[Helgi]

Lonely Soldier - "In the year 1530, after the Onin War, Japan fell into a period of struggle which later came to be known as the Sengoku Jidai, the Age of the Country at War. For seventy years the Daimyo, lords of various clans, vied for superiority, and unification eventually came in the form of the general Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Tokugawa rule brought an end to Japan’s civil strife for two hundred and fifty years more, and during this time, Edo (Tokyo) became the capital of the Shogunate. This stability spurred a time of refinement of the Japanese culture, and a vibrant middle-class society was formed".
"The Seven-Year War was the conflict from 1592 to 1598 on the Korean peninsula, following two successive Japanese invasions of Korea. Japanese troops invaded Korea in 1592 with the professed aim of conquering China. And Japan reinvaded in 1597 during a truce. In both campaigns, Japanese invasions were defeated by the allied forces of Korea and China.
"It is also known in Korean as Imjin Waeran (임진 왜란) and Jeongyu Jaeran (정유재란), literally "Japanese Turmoil of the Year Imjin" and "Re-turmoil of the Year Jeongyu", and in Japanese as "Battles of Bunroku and Keicho"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-Year_War
Just a little more information on the Japanese of that period.
~:grouphug:


.

[Lonely Soldier]

Thanks for that Helgi!

[Lonely Soldier]

Coming Soon...


THE AGE OF MANKIND: TOTAL WAR WEBSITE

The new site includes faction histories, play guides etc.

[CplTony]

bit of a pointless post but fair enough what are you planning to do for the red indian cities because up until the invasion of british/spanish ect they mainly stayed in tee-pees (i kno spellings wrong) so how are you gonna differenciate between all the buildings?

Tony

[Lonely Soldier]

CplTony - I don't think the post was pointless, I'm keeping people updated with the mod. Also, I believe tribes in the south of north America lived in adobe structures. Apart from that, I don't really see the problem with teepees anyway.

[katsusand]

enough meso-american nations you should put at least two american nations... what about korea and egypt and muslims nation?

you should really delete some of the american ... it is really unnecessary

[Lonely Soldier]

katsusand - we may end up getting rid of one of the north American factions (we are not removing the Mesoamerican Alliance!), but it would not be replaced by Egypt (because it's not historical). Many people have suggested the Arabs, and perhaps we should have them.

[katsusand]

great......

but i have a question... you are saying that the game will include A modren age... how??... i mean the rome:total war engine do not support WW2 battle style... cause the soldiers in need to take cover and hide in bunkers... not charging through each other....

[Lonely Soldier]

katsusand - well tanks would work much like elephants, but ranged combat would be stressed. There would probably be two kinds of infantry for each faction as well; Anti-tank and assault squads. These would be about 5-20 strong and use the peasant formation, though more sparsely. They would have the hide anywhere skill as well.

[snevets]

I posted a long time ago asking that exact question. There are alot of technical problems with this mod, especially the early modern stuff. In addition to that, you're going to need more than the limit for models 255 as of RTW, maybe more for BI, to complete all the unit types which span all time. So many its going to take years to get this done, unless you use generic units which would be slightly boring. Do you guys have a site or just concepts for one?

[Lonely Soldier]

snevets - we're still working on the site, I have to do a little more on it and then I'll release it.

The unit limit is definitely a problem. We are still working around it by making only the most vital units first.

[katsusand]

The unit limit is definitely a problem. We are still working around it by making only the most vital units first.

in that case you have to ways .....

1- delete some factions so you can have enough units slots

2- let the game ends at the gun powder age .........

[Ilsamir Lord]

Doing the mod in sections is always a possibility, too. You could have three or four campaigns like medieval did.

[Lonely Soldier]

That's true, but doing ages is preferable. By the way, I hope your mod goes well.

We have another new modeller, Snevets. He's done quite a few new models for us already, so check out the images section of our forums (see sig) for more information.

[Lonely Soldier]

Some unit pictures for everyone (sorry about the lack of posting recently but we are progressing):

All purpose Samurai Beta
https://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3017/samurainearlydone7qh9hc.th.jpg (https://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=samurainearlydone7qh9hc.jpg)
Roman Auxilia
https://img486.imageshack.us/img486/4145/auxromanspearmenfront7sz8sy.th.jpg (https://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=auxromanspearmenfront7sz8sy.jpg)
Medieval Italian Pikeman (may be for all European factions with reskins)
https://img486.imageshack.us/img486/9738/italianpikemen3ji0im.th.jpg (https://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=italianpikemen3ji0im.jpg)
And some Teutonic Knights (probably German province specific - we know that they look a little KKK'ish but they are historical)
https://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5428/teutonicknights9bh4qp.th.jpg (https://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teutonicknights9bh4qp.jpg)

[Ilsamir Lord]

I like how glossy the samurai are, but could they be a little redder perhaps? Also, the green for the Auxilia is nice.

[katsusand]

well good job man ^^ .... but the samurai color is bad ...Alas!!

I dont think that samurai have pink armor... it should be dark red or dark blue ....

[Lonely Soldier]

Thanks, and yes the Samurai will be altered.

Has anyone seen Sykotyk Rampage around recently? He was working on a map which he was going to donate to us, and I'd hate to lose it! We really badly need it!

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi

I've read the posts on the Aboriginal cultures and they are mostly incorrect. -Sorry to correct anyone - the North American native had vast "cities", and trading cultures. Some of the cultures had as many as half a million people to millions of population in the settlement areas. They also were mining copper and other ores over 5,000 years ago. They were the first people in the world to beat metal into bowls and other utensils/tools. -They were called Shield Archaic and Palaeo people and lived in Northern Canada 6,000 BC to 200 ad

At 100 BC there was a Laurel Culture that flourished and rivaled the Mayan culture. They also had vast cities and gigantic burial mounds, opulent art work that rivaled the Aztecs and the Incas.

I would also have no disease for the north/south American Factions – till later in the game.

The correct culture names
Algonkian, Crow (numerous choices for this central area) and Hokan

Algonkian
For the east from Hudson Bay to mid Canada -Manitoba and down past the great lakes to Florida and the middle of the United States should be called the -Eastern Woodland Nation -Algonkian Nation - A very large culture of numerous tribes that spoke the same tongue. Micmac, Cree, Ojibwa, Montagnais, Appalachian, Algonquian, Athapascan, Chipewyan etc....Now to lump them all together is also incorrect but the Algonkian is appropriate for the Eastern USA and Eastern/ North Canada. The language they spoke was Algonkian and Iroquoian variations. This faction would have a very large landmass, be very advanced and rich. Agri- society, peaceful

Crow
For Central Canada and the Central plains of the United States they should be called The Plains Indian - these tribes -Black Foot, Crow, etc the tribes that you mostly hear about. I would call them Crow.
This faction would be very Nomadic, small villages, and very war like(not that they were war like -amongst native cultures all out war was rare), expansionist

Hokan
For Western USA, north to Canada -British Columbia - Hokan is the old name for the area Aboriginals; their old culture would be linked with the meso-natives and Melanesian cultures.
Their cultures trade with the Aztecs and Plain Indians.

Well that’s all I can write for the day but I will send you more for your N. America cultures if you need it.


skr

[Ilsamir Lord]

Fantastic! That's some stuff I never knew before. Cool!

[Lonely Soldier]

Indeed! Awesome stuff! I'll make the appropriate changes. By the way, feel free to join our forums if you wish!

[Sykotyk Rampage]

After reading your names for the natives
keep Apache it is excellent for central plains Indians. Central Canada down Central USA
Algonkian for the stretch from Hudson Bay to South Carolina.
For the West coast use Hokan from British Columbia Canada down to New mexico-USA
The culture in Florida in the United States are the same tribes/culture as the Maya -which is the meso-union you have in mind.

They did have a form of "calvary" The northern cultures did use -caribou and buffalo as riding animals.
So you could -in a stretch- give the plain natives buffalo troops as archer calvary and the Algonkian Caribou/deer riding troops
These would be small units till the 1600's when the horse arrived.
So at the middle of the tech tree would be horses for the native cultures.

In North Canada the Inuit as the rebels - they actually wiped the viking landed imigrants off greenland. The Vikings in the 1300's abandoned Greenland and Newfoundland to them. Almost 2 hundred years before Columbus discovered America. (even the polynesian cultures were here before the spanish)
The Inuit had seen the Viking horse and was left some in the abondon villages. The horse did die out though.
You could also give the early Natives Elephants ...they did hunt elephants in the plains of North America. Much like the way Indians from India use the elephant for war.

Lonley -I have sent this as a pm also

SKR

[Lonely Soldier]

More excellent stuff! I was interested to hear about the carabou and buffalo cavalry! Very cool!

[Ilsamir Lord]

I just thought I'd tell you guys to check out BDH's mapping tutorial. It could be useful.

[Lonely Soldier]

Thanks for that! I wouldn't have found it I don't think, but that essentially removes the need for a lot of work on the Campaign Map! Now the impetus is on me to do all the heavy research for all the family trees! :P lol

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi

Anyone seen Lonely around?
Is this mod alive?

Sadly I have moved on to other projects. Best of luck. :balloon2:

[Lonely Soldier]

Hi.

I haven't been around much lately, but the mod is moving on. We are still in desperate need of a map, but having not pinned much down yet (my fault and a woeful fault at that), we will complete the map from the stage to which you have it done.

Thanks.

[Lonely Soldier]

We've reduced the mod's scope. See our forums.

[Lonely Soldier]

General Announcement

The mod now starts in the year 1453, the year Constantinople fell to the Turks. Therefore some faction names will change. The Romans will be the Italians. The Sassanids will be the Turks. There will be an Arab faction in Arabia, North Africa and parts of Spain. The Hellenistic States will be either changed or removed. We will still have the Spanish, the Germans, the French and the English (not the British).

The Mesoamerican States will become the Aztecs. The Inca will remain. The North American tribes, which were never really accurate anyway, will also be changed.

Japan and China will remain, and will use these names. The Champa Empire will be the Cambogee or the Angkor, I will research this further. The Indians will be the Moghuls.

That's all for now. The mod has now well and truly changed, but I think for the better. We will strive to make a working demo, containing historical battles between the Spanish and various native Americans, as well as between some other factions to illustrate scope.

We will need new faction icons, new histories and descriptions (which I will do).

Thank you.

PS - The reasons for these sweeping changes have a lot to do with my total lack of knowledge of Rome and it's engine. I take full blame for any time people have wasted in working on this mod up to now, but I hope that we will be able to offer an interesting and unique mod to the community.

What started as a mod showing the whole world from 500BCE to 2500CE has become a modification depicting the whole world from 1453 to 1900, still a vast undertaking.

Here it comes, what you've all been expecting... we need modellers, scripters, researchers (with some idea of academic rigour please!) and basically anyone else who is willing to help us. From the start interest has been woefully low, many have said that the mod is impossible, and now I finally, after a year of sporadic and ineffectual work, see that the doubters were right.

Thanks.

[GaugamelaTC]

Lonely Soldier, i think you should wait for MTW2. The extra factions and other systems (possibly eras) could help you more. Guns will be included making life a lot easier for you. My advice would be to use the time before the game to get some modders together and research( which i will gladly help in)

Sorry for my absence but i've had test after test and I had to go to hospital. But I'm back I love this mod and want to help!!!!!!!! So if you're up for it let me proudly say: Age of Mankind Total War needs modders!

[richyg13]

You'll probably find this mod will be re-announced for M2TW with a new name. Our plan is realy to make what we can for RTW, even if its reduced to being the spanish invasion of the aztecs, see how far we get. much of our work can then be transfered to the new engine where the effects and features will be much better.

[GaugamelaTC]

Shall I still do some research for the next game any way(or even this version)?

[richyg13]

visit the forums

http://s14.invisionfree.com/Age_of_Mankind/index.php?act=idx

get involved with the discussuins there.

[Lonely Soldier]

Hi everyone.

Progress is slow, and to be perfectly honest, my interest has wained considerably recently. I hope to have more time for research in the future, but until then, I'll leave it to others to carry on with the mod. Feel free to suggest units for the factions listed at the forums. For everyone else, the new faction list is:

The Italians.
The Turks
The Arabs
The Hellenistic States will be either changed or removed.
The Spanish
The Germans
The French
The English
The Aztecs
The Inca
Two or Three North American Tribes. We will need to rethink these.
Japan
China
The Champa Empire will be the Cambogee or the Angkor
The Moghuls

This list is designed to fit for the Renaissance. The mod now begins in 1453 with the fall of Constantinople, which is why the prescence Hellenistic States, or Byzantine Empire, is in question.

We now have scope to add more factions, but if we do they will need to fit into one of the general cultural groups already present. So perhaps we will have the Danes or some such, or Egypt for example.

[Ilsamir Lord]

Glad to see the mod changing to fit with potential, but its also a shame that it has had its mammoth scope reduced.

[methoz]

very nice...but progress ?
btw - for bi,rtw,mv2 ??

[richyg13]

To report to any people interested in this mod's future.

It's life in RTW is well and truly gone, the team disbanded from what i can see.



Assuming I dont pick up any other project before hand im willing to try and rescue the mod's potential with a new team and new name for M2TW. My skills in modelling have vastly improved since when i started on this poject orignally, i can even model characters from scratch now :)

Features to include:
- 30 Playable factions (assuming the word about M2TW is true)
- A Whole World to play (Pacific wont be traversable)
- 2 Centuries of combat (divided into 3 Era's of progression starting in 1453)


To be succesful i'll need team members to come forward now.
Required:
- 2+ 3D Modelling Artisits with Texturing Capabilities
- 1+ Texturing Specific Artist (to ensure best quality textures for all factions)
- 2 or 3 Researchers/Writers (doubles as writers for in game text)
- 1 or 2 Concept Specific Artists
- 1 2D/GUI Artist
- 1+ Coders (to ensure all 100% balance and accuracy)
- 1 Compiler/Mod Director

I'm hoping the old team members will head this call and contact me at richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com
Anyone new interested can e-mail at the same address.

[Lonely Soldier]

Yes, I'm sorry everyone, I really should have posted myself. All the best to you Richy and I might return to the concept one day, if you'll have me. But for now, my heart has gone out of it. I'm sorry for that.

[Murfios]

I saw this mod and became greatly interested. Ive lived 7 years so far in Central America, and ive been studing native american culture since then. Im also a RTW gamer.
I can also give ideas of units name and how they would look.
I know mainly Central and some South American culture.

I would really like if I could help you. My skills are:

Veteran 2D digital painter(photoshop and Corel), Veteran working with Audio(editing, making, ect) Expert gamer(this includes noticing every little bug encountered), know little about modding, and great historical knowledge.

Good Luck!

[richyg13]

As there is no notable place to start a fresh thread for a mod based on the M2TW engine I'll post one her in the Forge and hopefully a moderator will move it if ive posted in a bad place. :)

@Lonely -
the problem was taking on a challange far too big, i myself was inexperienced with RTW modding and it made it very difficult. If you choose to return i'd like to have you as the director who can make final decisions on things. I've been doing loads of research based on the time period starting 1453 to get the right factions in place but is alot for me to take in all at once.

@Murfios -
It'd be great to have such skills on the team and therefore will be happy to take you onboard. There is little to do right now since how to the models have to be made remains unknown. Therefore your knowledge of the Americas would be much appreciated, so if you can compile your knowledge into unit ideas that would be dandy! :)
Make yourself known in the new thread.

[Murfios]

Thanks!
well, im no more of a noob in this threads and stuff, so tell me where to find it.
Another thing, Do we need o regroup? Do we need more people to join? Lets make a thread to recruit modders in.

[Murfios]

ok, found it

[Murfios]

Firt, No native American ever used swords. This can be replaces with macanas made with obsidian. This are my opinions of what some units should be called.

Aztec

Peseants (Should be able to throw rocks)
Jaguar Warrior
Eagle Warrior
Coyote Warband
Sun Warrior
Warrior(god) Priest
Tracker
Tucan Skirmisher
Plumed Archer
Feathered Bowman
Pelt Bearer
Savage Woods Man

Inca

Bolas Traper (throws Rocks, Like a Sling)
Huamica Spear Man
Religion Fanatic
High Lands Warrior
Red Spear
Lama Pelt Warrior
Condor Pikeman

I Belive Mayans ae no more. Correct me if im wrong

[JuliusCaesar]

Wow, first I'd like to say that this mod seems awesome:2thumbsup: I like the idea of being able to fight across the whole world. But I think u should only make it possible to fight in a much shorter period of time. Only in the ancient epoch. The game has a hard-coded limit of about 500 units. If u then have 21 factions, and each faction needs units for perhaps 4 epoches and a minimum of 10 units per faction per epoch (anything other would be dull), it would require over 840 units. Thats not possible, and it would anyway take a lot of time to finish (remember that Mediaeval:TotalWar 2 will be released in under a year, and that means a lot of people will start playing that instead). It would be much better to focus on the time of vanilla RTW and make this epoch real great, instead of making many mediocre epoches. Just a tip. Good luck finishing the mod.

[Murfios]

Can someone give me a serial code for 3dsMax8, i lost mine and can get another. Please, i need it, i would apreciate it alot.

[richyg13]

@Julius
You should notice that this mod's cocept has been greatly changed and that you should now find the new thread started... The Renaisance World: Total War. You'll see what we're aiming for there.

@Murfios
Add me at richard_garlick_2004@hotmail.com

[Murfios]

Hey Richg13, I did, look, from where i live there are 2 hour ahead from the US. My Msn caveman-shaman@hotmail.com I have 3dmax...

[richyg13]

Yeh your added... I'll see you online... I'm GMT. usually on before mid-day and in the evenings/nights (most of the time).

[Murfios]

It seems as if you havent yet accepted me. caveman-shaman@hotmail.com

[The_Rat]

hello, i just wanted to say that if this mod is still alive i would like to help

i have intermediate skills with 2d textures (photoshop) and modeling so if u need help or something PM me :2thumbsup:

[JuliusCaesar]

Did you guys ever make the campaign map? The one covering the whole world. Beacuse if you did and it actually works (it shouldn't be possible due to the landmass ratio) I would realy like to take a look at it and maby use it to a minimod of mine. If thats ok though.

[Lonely Soldier]

Sykotic Rampage made one, and showed screens to me, though I'm not sure where they are now, but he never gave it to us.

Sorry for having dropped off the face of the earth too.

[Roman_Man#3]

is this mod still alive?

[Roman_Man#3]

again, i ask, is this mod still alive?

[Vuk]

GaugamelaTC - Well the turks did use cannon to destroy the walls of Constantinople quite early on, around the14th century I believe, which is somewhat earlier than the Western Europeans used it.

On another matter, could someone tell me how to create one of those signiature banners and upload it? Thanks in advance!


incorrect. The Europeans already had cannons as much as 70 years before the Turks ever heard of them. They were used primarily against soldiers and not walls. It was the Turks who discovered their destructive use in sieges, but not who invented the cannon.

[richyg13]

again, i ask, is this mod still alive?

I'm afraid not my friend.
I worked on this mod for about a year but it was never completed.

[Roman_Man#3]

thats too bad, this mod looked like it had excellent potential.

[will billy3]

by austrailions u mean aboriganines

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Well if they had finished this mod it would have been epic ut i guess sometimes we just bite off WAY more than we can chew.
Nice idea BTW.

[Spartan198]

Ambitious, but unfeasible, though. :wall:

[Emperor of Graal]

I think you got a steak (The age of mankind) Cut a big chunk a choked on it :skull:
Edit:It was going to a ledge mod :(