Lesbian Rebels

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I was besieging Permagum on my Julii campaign, when the city rebelled. My besiging forces wer outnumbered 5-1, but I stayed and fought. During the battle, I checked the name of the rebels out of curiosity. Yes, the faction ID said.....Lesbian Rebels. Explanations welcome.

[Kraxis]

The island of Lesbos... People from it are called Lesbians. Well now beta is provounced more like a 'v', but back then it was like that.
Our notion of lesbians comes from Sapho a female peot that wrote a bit on female to female love and companionship. Supposedly she even led a cult of lesbians on Lesbos, at the very least she lived there.

But I'm beginning to wonder about getting a sticky for this... It seems to pop up every three weeks or so. ~;)

[LordKhaine]

http://www.zen17212.zen.co.uk/Pics/RTW/lesbianrebels.jpg

I wont directly link it since it's a 56k killer pic...

[Kraxis]

Now that I think about this, how people seem stunned by the fact that some people are called that, I'm beginning to wonder if not somewhere there are some very uptight people who have noticed this, have burnt the game at the stake (after duly torture of course, such as scratching the disk and slicing the map and manual) and forbidden the children to ever mention it again.

[AdamKelt]

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!

It's Militia Etheridge!

;)

[pezhetairoi]

...O_o

[Uesugi Kenshin]

That one gave me a bit of a shock when i first saw it, but then I thought for a second and remembered the good old island of Lesbos.

[Zalmoxis]

I'll give the greatest imaginary cookie ever to the next person who permnently titles themselves Lesbian Rebel. Remember, greatest ever.

[Suraknar]

LOL!

Interesting how some words get to have new meanings and even social reprecautions over time isn't it? ~;)

[MajorFreak]

What? you mean the fact men drool whenever the word lesbian appears, as if it implied threesome with them? lol

[barocca]

this thread is in danger of rapidly going to a bad place

i want everyone to go stand in their corners facing the wall...um...um...on second thoughs maybe thats Not such a good idea...

[MajorFreak]

yeah, that and bad puns too, especially stickied ones. *giggle*

[Barbarossa82]

In case anyone is wondering how this strange coincidence of names came about, some of the earlies references to female homoeroticism were written by the poet Sappho. She lived on Lesbos and was therefore a Lesbian. The name stuck. (Hence also the word "sapphic".)

[MajorFreak]

speaking of which, i always found it hard to believe the amazon archers would lop off one of their breasts in order to shoot properly. Always figured it was male sexism that biased that "fact" into being.

[Kraxis]

speaking of which, i always found it hard to believe the amazon archers would lop off one of their breasts in order to shoot properly. Always figured it was male sexism that biased that "fact" into being.
Of course it was... Or just a misunderstanding of other societies, which the ancient Greeks were very good at as we all know.
Anyway such a physical alteration was not impossible, but it was highly dangerous, infections and debilitating scarring would be more than common. And I wonder if any society would allow half the women to either die or become invalids due to something that was not needed (just look at all the women-archers of the steppe peoples, they have and had both breasts).

[Titus Livius]

I'm beginning to wonder if not somewhere there are some very uptight people who have noticed this, have burnt the game at the stake (after duly torture of course, such as scratching the disk and slicing the map and manual) and forbidden the children to ever mention it again.

He he. More likely the newly-formed Lesbian Anti-Defamation Syndicate (or LADS) will protest the portrayal of Lesbians in RTW as being imperialist, neo-fascist, anti-feminist, chauvanist, and whatever other -ists they can think of before press time.

And the signs shall read "NO WAR FOR (the national product of Lesbos here)"

[Catiline]

He he. More likely the newly-formed Lesbian Anti-Defamation Syndicate (or LADS) will protest the portrayal of Lesbians in RTW as being imperialist, neo-fascist, anti-feminist, chauvanist, and whatever other -ists they can think of before press time.

And the signs shall read "NO WAR FOR (the national product of Lesbos here)"

wine

[Mikeus Caesar]

I'll give the greatest imaginary cookie ever to the next person who permnently titles themselves Lesbian Rebel. Remember, greatest ever.

Okay then, i'll do it. But the cookie better be damn well good!!!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

He lies, the cookie is really full of weevils and will control your mind and force you to wear a sign saying "I am a Lesbian" for the rest of your days. Despite how you feel about this it will undoubtedly inconvenience you.

[Kekvit Irae]

Let's stay on topic, unless everyone wants this thread to say hello to the Backroom :tongueg:

[Titus Livius]

Let's stay on topic, unless everyone wants this thread to say hello to the Backroom :tongueg:

Whooooa, there's a new sheriff in town.

[Zalmoxis]

He lies, the cookie is really full of weevils and will control your mind and force you to wear a sign saying "I am a Lesbian" for the rest of your days. Despite how you feel about this it will undoubtedly inconvenience you.
Bah, now you're just making stuff up. All you need to do for the cookie is change your title (permanetly) and sign this waver giving me exclusive rights to your title *coughandyourslifecough* :deal: just like Mikeus has done, which reminds me *takes cookie out, stares in awe at cookie, throws it at Mikeus*.

[MajorFreak]

Whooooa, there's a new sheriff in town.hot damn, you noticed that too?

Anyhows, to bring this sucker back on topic, i figured that drastic surgery was bollocks. That recent movie starring, uhhhhh...keira knightley?...about Arthur legends had her wearing some rather snug leather something which got me thinking about that whole issue again. Makes perfect sense that if there ever was a society like that they had feminine hygiene and probably what passed for sports bras back then.

hmmmmm...nope, that train of thought would be waaaaaaaaay off topic. *giggle*



http://www.hellenicnavy.gr/upload/AIGAIO_1843.jpg
that's a map of the aegean sea (an old map)...you can see lesbos as a sort of upside down horseshoe shaped island just off the west coast of turkey. Ingame terms it is actually shown just south of Pergamum.

[Kraxis]

Horseshoeshaped? Nah, I would rather say it is more triangular but has a deep slim bay in the south-western part.

[Titus Livius]

That recent movie starring, uhhhhh...keira knightley?...about Arthur legends had her wearing some rather snug leather something which got me thinking about that whole issue again.

Yeah, King Arthur was one of those unintentionally hilarious movies. I particularly enjoyed the Celtic trebuchets, which seemed to come out of nowhere (those barbarians were always known for siege weapons, right?) and the magical evaporation of sexism in the ancient world. That Arthur guy really can do anything.

I did enjoy what looked to be authentic Sarmatian armor, though.

I'm still waiting for a movie that is 100% historically accurate (though I wonder if anyone would go see it without those Braveheart fight scenes).

[pezhetairoi]

you can see lesbos as a sort of upside down horseshoe shaped island just off the east coast of turkey.

Turkey has an east coast? XD

Hmm, I liked Arthur's roman black-leather armour thingie. Makes him look sexy. Ahem.

Isn't there an island where...well, MALE lesbians come from? Ahem.

Okay, on a more serious note, Tora Tora Tora was pretty accurate. So was Spartacus, to a smaller extent. The older movies, in other words, before Hollywood became what it is today.

[Kraxis]

Yeah Tora Tora Tora just makes you slap your forehead! So many things gone wrong, it felt like everybody was tripping over each other's feet. I began to wonder "what's next? The messenger steps on a landmine?"

But even it was 'mainstreamed' to make it easier to digest. I think we will never see really historical movies. The producers and directors are simply too scared of doing that, as with the gameindustry the belief is that historical correctness excludes public interest. And I must admit that I wouldn't be all that hyped for a battle where the two lines fought relatively defensively in dense lines, perhaps even seperated for a rest. Now that would be a killer for a movie, and not of the good kind. But perhaps then the movie should concentrate of the more dashing cavalry and their more Hollywoody fights.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

From all I have heard about the last battle fought by Spartacus the movie totally messed that up. Though I a may be wrong.

[Cardinal]

However....... has it struck anyone that someone in ActiVision knowingly has put in the "Lesbian Rebel Faction", knowing fully what they are doing, and somehow managed to pass through Quality Control. The inhabitants of Lesbos, despite all the historical info that has come up in this thread, have never referred to themselfes as Lesbians. Try it out, take a trip to Greece to the mentioned Island, go up to the biggest, hairiest guy on the whole island and inquire if his wife is a lesbian. If you do a "teeth count" before and after you might find that the numbers only match if you include the teeth currently on the ground...

Lesbian Rebels - I bet the guys down at ActiVision are still splitting their sides..how these long winter eves must fly by!!

[Navaros]

Now that I think about this, how people seem stunned by the fact that some people are called that, I'm beginning to wonder if not somewhere there are some very uptight people who have noticed this, have burnt the game at the stake (after duly torture of course, such as scratching the disk and slicing the map and manual) and forbidden the children to ever mention it again.

that's exactly what i would have done if i had purchased this game. although i myself would mention it to everyone i know. and everyone i don't know too via forums all over the net to let them know that this franchise is promoting that sort of thing

due to this, i definitely will never purchase this game now.

i'm glad this thread has informed me.

[Bhruic]

although i myself would mention it to everyone i know. and everyone i don't know too via forums all over the net to let them know that this franchise is promoting that sort of thing

And which "that sort of thing" are they promoting? I can only assume you are deeply offended that they've done something as despicable as using the correct historical name for a region. How dare they! :rolleyes:

Bh

[Titus Livius]

I think we will never see really historical movies.

Personally, I think that if you got Spielberg to make a Private Ryan-style movie accurately depicting hoplite warfare, it would be the most terrifying battle scene ever. I hear they're going to make a Gates of Fire movie, but I'm not optimistic. I'm expecting another version of Braveheart.

[AntiochusIII]

I have one problem: why are the Pergamese (?) be considered Lesbians in the game? Lesbos was just an island off the shore of Pergamum, but R:TW vanilla insists on naming the rebels of Pergamum (Phrygia) as Lesbians. ~:confused:

I think its the humour of our old CA team, apart from (not so loved) customer service problem, they are (loved and) famed for this. ~D

Oh, by the way, to successfully provoke "the new sheriff" and her compatriots into moving this ill-fated thread to that scary place called the Backroom, where it will be bashed into oblivion, I'd say I don't mind the existence of Lesbians at all. They are, in fact, awe-inspiring to me in...ahem..some ways... ~;p

[Rodion Romanovich]

Personally, I think that if you got Spielberg to make a Private Ryan-style movie accurately depicting hoplite warfare, it would be the most terrifying battle scene ever. I hear they're going to make a Gates of Fire movie, but I'm not optimistic. I'm expecting another version of Braveheart.

Private Ryan stopped being realistic in the end battle when they ran back and forth through fire and not being hit. And the assault on that machinegun position was just ridiculous - running straight towards the machinegun position in an umbrella-like formation and only losing one man... It was only the introduction scene that was realistic. Most movie makers try to make the movies for the crowds, not for historians, which is why we have never seen and will never see completely realistic movies. Small kids like it when the main characters run through machinegun fire and not get hit, or when cavalry kills an entire army, or when archers kill half the armies. If you want as much realism as is possible with the market situation for the movie makers, any of the Kurosawa movies are recommended.

[Kekvit Irae]

to successfully provoke "the new sheriff" and her compatriots into moving this ill-fated thread to that scary place called the Backroom

Here's a suggestion: please keep on-topic so we dont have to move the thread. I dont like the idea of being provoked, even in jest, and going down said route will not be a real good thing.

[MajorFreak]

However....... has it struck anyone that someone in ActiVision knowingly has put in the "Lesbian Rebel Faction", knowing fully what they are doing, and somehow managed to pass through Quality Control. The inhabitants of Lesbos, despite all the historical info that has come up in this thread, have never referred to themselfes as Lesbians. Try it out, take a trip to Greece to the mentioned Island, go up to the biggest, hairiest guy on the whole island and inquire if his wife is a lesbian. If you do a "teeth count" before and after you might find that the numbers only match if you include the teeth currently on the ground...

Lesbian Rebels - I bet the guys down at ActiVision are still splitting their sides..how these long winter eves must fly by!!
Actually, as you can see here (http://www.lesvos.com/history.html), they refer to themselves (historically) as Mytilinians (and their capital is called that). I think it was only Homer who made famous the women of "Lesvos", and of course, Sapphos.

Sapphos was a 6th century BC poet. Some say the greatest poet who ever lived
Question: compare and contrast Sappho to Homer

Answer: Homer was an epic poet about which very little is known. Sappho was a lyric poetess who lived on the island of Lesbos. Homer's work has been carefully preserved while Sappho's has been systematically destroyed.
source (http://www.fjkluth.com/sappho.html)
some beautiful pictures of the island are here (http://www.steveoutram.com/lesvos2005.htm).

i have not seen explicit references to 'Amazons' during my searches for the poet and the island name...in fact, one is hard pressed to find ANY connection at all.

[Kraxis]

Of course CA made a small joke with the Lesbians, they jumped it when they could. But if you notice there are many places wheer they have taken smaller tribes and/or regional populations to be the rebels, so in that effect the Lesbians are perfectly ok.

Did Mytilene really control the entire island? I thought it only had control of the area right outside the city, while the rest were Lesbians. The source only mention The Coast of the Mytilinians, it could easily have been the people from Mytilene that had expanded rather than the entire island. It is hardly proof, but in this context it is better than Lesbians.
And I haven't seen reference to the Amazons having been from Lesbos. Only Scythia and the steppes.

[MajorFreak]

Blame Xena and an over-active childhood imagination

[Rodion Romanovich]

I think it was only Homer who made famous the women of "Lesvos", and of course, Sapphos.

Then the lesbians of Lesbos might just be another tale/myth like the Amazons, if they've only been mentioned by a poet and a writer? Not that that means there weren't any lesbians then, just that there probably wasn't a female only state on the island of Lesbos... Or what do you think?



Sapphos was a 6th century BC poet. Some say the greatest poet who ever livedsome beautiful pictures of the island are here (http://www.steveoutram.com/lesvos2005.htm).

i have not seen explicit references to 'Amazons' during my searches for the poet and the island name...in fact, one is hard pressed to find ANY connection at all


The Amazons and Lesbians of lesbos are both quite simple for a writer/poet to come up with, or a simple myth to be created by a culture: a people consisting only of women - but no man can hope to be allowed into their area/kingdom/city etc. I wouldn't be suprised if the idea has been invented several times independently throughout history, or if Homer and Sapphos stole the Amazons myth for their stories/poems. Many myths tend to be overused and slightly modified and put into a new context - that's why the basic idea of the myth survives through centuries because someone improves/changes it and it goes on that way. If Homer is one of the main sources about Lesbos lesbians, then that story is probably only as true as the story of Scylla and Charybdis...

[Kekvit Irae]

I should have said this earlier :blankg:
But the topic at hand is why CA/Activision decided to name said rebels "Lesbians" and their relation to the island of Les(v)os in the game. I'm pleased that this thread is working it's way back to being on-topic, but it's still quite borderline Monestary/Backroom. Let's not push it. :winkg:

[tibilicus]

I got lesbian rebel in Hilcarnus. In fact i get them all over the place. I seem to have loads of lesbian Rebels

[Craterus]

Good luck wit beating those lesbians..

[AntiochusIII]

How do you get those rebels, since the city of Pergamum belongs to Greek Cities? Or are they just bandits?

[Craterus]

You let Pergamum turn rebel.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Good luck wit beating those lesbians..

People in another forum thought it was funny when I wrote about a battle I had against lesbian rebels with long spears trying to impale my roman soldiers. I don't see what was so funny about that... ~D

Anyway, they seem to like using phalanxes and peltasts very much. Shouldn't be hard to beat. I believe they turned up in Halicarnassus for me, or perhaps Pergamum.

[Titus Livius]

Just don't let anyone at the ACLU know that you've been spending your off-hours slaughtering lesbians.

[khelvan]

Deleted.

[MajorFreak]

I think it was only Homer who made famous the women of "Lesvos", and of course, Sapphos.Then the lesbians of Lesbos might just be another tale/myth like the Amazons, if they've only been mentioned by a poet and a writer? Not that that means there weren't any lesbians then, just that there probably wasn't a female only state on the island of Lesbos... Or what do you think?One needs to tell the moderators to institute chaining of quotes...it's hard to keep focus.

anyways, i suspect in such an "imperial" culture where "democracy" was less effective then as it is now (notice the lack of extreme repression against public protest, relatively speaking) the governments who formed from the shadow of the ancient businesses would have seen a fantasy colony of pure women to be excellent material for displacing constructive civil disobedience into libidous entropy.

sort of like the blank book that the protagonist of "1984" was able to purchase. An impotent symbol without reference to the collective power of democracy. Yes, even back then the ancient governments (and the businesses they represented) feared democracy - the voice of the people.

What better way to invent a fantasy rebellious ideal that one can use to ridicule any "equal-rights", "civil-rights" and "democratic" movements as merely the product of angry homosexuals. (underlying assumption being they'd not reproduce and thus die off)

the bitter irony is that lebvos' history was one of struggle against tyranny and horrendous repressions against any independence movements.

[Periklis]

Hi to all. the ancient island of lesvos is now called Mitilini. There is a beach used only by lesbians (not the citizens lesbians but the homosexual lesbians).
In top of that every year at summer time there is a world wide uninon for lesbians (homo not the civ). The name Lesvos is not entierly off use. The island of Limnos as well the island of Mitilini make apart the municipality of Lesbos