Which faction for the first game

[Dutch_guy]

well after extensivly playing RTW , I decided to buy MTW - for about 10 euro's - because I wanted to know why it was so much better than RTW , as many say on these forums and well I just culdn't resist for just 10 euro's ~D

So anyway when I start my campain, Which faction should you recommend to play as first, to get good feel of the game, how it works and so forth.


And well I guess every ''age'' - early , late etc- is fine for me.



:balloon2:

[Viking]

I actually thought of doing that myself. Perhaps I`ll even do it.

Have you bought VI? The Vikings sounds great!

[King Edward]

Start Early and play as England, as they have a solid defensive position and their mid game units will own the fields of Europe (Longbows and Billmen) also the catholic factions unit are much more 'user friendly than some of the more exotic units you get with the muslim factions.

If you have MTW I HIGHLY recommend getting VI as it not only adds a new campagne but also enhances the origonal campagns. Then get 2.01 patch. Then you will also be able to play it online.

Hope thats of some help!

[tigger_on_vrb]

Probably a good idea to try both christian and muslim factions on early to get used to the different troop types. For your first game you will probably play through high and late anyway, so you will meet most available troops.

For your first catholic game I would go for Spanish. Nice mix of troops, several rebel provinces to take, decent trade prospects and iron to upgrade weapons.

Maybe try Byzantines (orthodox christian) next - awesome mixture of troops and the stongest faction in early, practice managing a large empire and war with more than one nieghbour probably.

Next for the muslims. I love the turks - try them soon, but for the first game I would recommend Egyptians - very strong trading power. This will really give you a taste of warfare in the desert.

That would be my recommendation.

[Dutch_guy]

Ok, I've heard a lot about VI so I'll see if I can get it .

Thanks for your advice so far


:balloon2:

[Viking]

Then get 2.01 patch. Then you will also be able to play it online.

Can you play MTW online with 56Kb connection?

[King Edward]

yep i used to all the time!

[Togakure]

The Byzantines in Early begin with a highly developed city (Constantinople) which can produce superior troops and has excellent trade potential, and they have superior generals. I've found them to be a relatively easy faction to play. The Egyptians are also an easy faction for a first campaign if you want to try the Muslims. England has a relatively defensible starting position, but income can be a problem unless you manage things carefully. England is also hemmed in by Christian factions, so crusades are often necessary to expand significantly (which usually results in having to manage a split empire if your crusade(s) are successful).

Contrary to the game's difficulty ratings, I've found the Spanish in Early to be one of the easiest Christian factions to play. They have a Muslim faction just next door, making it easy to expand early without conflicting with other Christian factions. Spanish Jinettes are effective light cavalry in Early--particularly in the desert, with inexpensive infrastructure needed to produce them. They have good generals--and once the Almohads have been dealt with--an easy path to the Holy Lands devoid of Christian opponents. After taking the Holy Lands from Egypt, they can continue on to Constantinople, taking out the Byzantines, again avoiding strife with Christian factions. Once Constantinople and the Holy Lands are taken, other Christian factions will often send crusades, effectively declaring war on you. This enables you to engage a Christian faction without instigating the conflict. When I play the Spanish I try to blitz, first the Almos, then the Egyptians, and then the Byzantines, owning the southern half of the map well before the onset of the High Period.

I think Early campaigns are easier than High and Late campaigns. Starting in Early also lets you develop your infrastructure the way you like before reaching the High Period, and allows you to produce a surplus of troops that are no longer trainable in High (like Danish Viking Huscarles, or Moldavian Avar Nobles, etc).

[ichi]

Click Here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45951) for a recent thread about which faction to play on your first attempt.

English, Spanish, Byz, Danish, Almohads all good, start in Early.

Good luck and let us know how it goes

ichi :bow:

[UltraWar]

I recommend the English because of swift expansion :duel:

[Shambles]

if you get vi, id use the welsh :)
and egypt in early would be a nice start id say

[kiwitt]

Welkom Dutch_Guy, from another (albeit in NZ).

You will enjoy MTW. I have STW and RTW, but I still play MTW:VI. To understand some basics, I played Denmark for a longtime. You learnt how to manage a low income and use your money wisely.

Tot Straks. (See you later)

[Krusader]

If you just want to get a great income almost from get go, and just produce troops, then Almohads might be a good faction. Berber Camels are okay enough, but you get early on Almohad Urban Militia which if used correctly are rock-hard.

When you get the hang of the game, I would advice Turkish Late. Only one province, but many nice units later on.

And what the others have said!!

[Pericles]

By all means I highly recommend getting the VI Campaign.

It will also open the door to all the great mods for MTW too :)

[Martok]

I recommend the Spanish, with the Egyptians being a very close second choice.

Both factions start with pretty rich lands and have some nice territories around them as well. ~D In particular, the Spanish can usually bribe El Cid to join them--which of course not only gives them an excellent general, but also adds a decent province (Valencia) to their kingdom.

Both factions also start out with a pretty good mix of troops even in the Early period, and they're not difficult to learn how to utilize in battle. The Spanish start out with your standard Catholic units, which are pretty easy to get the hang of, as they are not fast, and are based more on raw power. They also have access to Spanish Jinnettes (light missile cavalry), which add a nice bit of flexibility and flavor to your armies.

The Egyptian units aren't quite as powerful per se, and are slightly trickier to learn how to use effectively--Muslim units generally require a little more finesse than Catholic units, as they rely more on speed than brute strength. This is greatly offset, however, by the fact that Egyptian units are generally cheaper and (as I just mentioned) faster. Egypt also has access to a somewhat larger variety of troops in the Early period--in particular, Bedouin Camels (solid light cavalry that get a bonus against horses), Saracens (good medium spearmen), and Gazi Infantry (fast with excellent attack and great morale).

[_Aetius_]

The best Faction I think is the Byzantines to go, even though youve got lots of advantages, I think for a beginner controlling such a large empire isnt really a good idea, when I played the first time I went the English. The British isles if things go wrong in France gives you a platform to experiment with troops and buildings etc with pretty little interference from outside powers.

So id say England or possibly Byzantium.

[Martok]

The best Faction I think is the Byzantines to go, even though youve got lots of advantages, I think for a beginner controlling such a large empire isnt really a good idea, when I played the first time I went the English. The British isles if things go wrong in France gives you a platform to experiment with troops and buildings etc with pretty little interference from outside powers.

So id say England or possibly Byzantium.


I agree with your assessment of the Byzantines. Yes, they are one of the strongest factions in the Early period, but they're probably not a good one for beginners. I still remember the first time I played as them. I felt completely overwhelmed--not only by the number of starting provinces I had to manage, but also by the fact that the Empire is located at the junction between Catholic Europe and the Islamic kingdoms. In terms of just the sheer amount of stuff you have to keep track of, the Byz are almost certainly the most difficult in this regard.

That's another reason I like playing as the Spanish. You only have to manage 2 or 3 provinces starting out (depending on whether you bribe El Cid and his province of Valencia), which is much easier to deal with than the Byzantines' 12 provinces! Don't get me wrong, the Byz are a lot of fun to play; but I don't recommend them to anyone who's playing Medieval for the first time.

[bretwalda]

Byz is not that hard at all management wise if you are a die-hard civ player like me :wink: And tactics wise it is easy because of the good generals and crash-thru-everything troops. I'd say Byz just keep in mind two things: money will run out so trade and build ships and always use good generals because they make your troops fight harder, better and longer.

[Dub]

I'd recommend Byz, despite the numerous provinces and being in the middle of various ambitious powers. You'll have lots of money to spend, and that's the name of the campaign game (i.e., learning how to spend money), you'll have high loyalty so won't need to deal with the complications of disloyalty right from the start, you'll have VERY strong troops, so you'll have success on the battlefield without too much trouble, and the troop variety will teach you about how to utilize different forces for different tasks. By all means get Viking Invasion: great additions, and the smaller scale strategy of conquering the British Isles is a relief after you've tackled the whole medieval world... I, for one, am a believer in MTW over RTW: I played RTW when it first came out, and enjoyed it, and still have it in fact, but have found that its battles aren't half as fun (except for sieges) and its campaign mode can't sustain my interest after thirty or so years of play... got repetitive for me. Anyway, the TW series is great, and MTW has been the thing for me.

[Dub]

And just to add to Bretwalda's thought: as the Byz, you MUST BUILD SHIPS...along with trading posts (and their upgrades). And do the farm upgrades. THEN the money will roll in (via trade from the ships especially). Good luck!

[UltraWar]

if you get vi, id use the welsh :)
and egypt in early would be a nice start id say

Well if you are any good at it you would but i would say mercians or saxons if you are just starting m:tw/vi because they can expand to a far distance and as the saxons i took over most of the map as the saxons before the DREADED CIVIL WAR CAME and i managed to save most of my provences
THE WELSH ARE THE WORST AND HAVE THE LEAST NCOME BARING PROVENCE OF POUIS

[_Aetius_]

Byz is not that hard at all management wise if you are a die-hard civ player like me And tactics wise it is easy because of the good generals and crash-thru-everything troops. I'd say Byz just keep in mind two things: money will run out so trade and build ships and always use good generals because they make your troops fight harder, better and longer.

The Byz arent hard to play as if your experienced but newcomers, will not react fast enough to the empires various problems and almost certainly be overrun. The Byz have loads of good things going for them but unless the player is vigilant and aggressive then the empire will be picked apart. :duel:

The Byz are by far my fave faction to play as.

[ajaxfetish]

There's one faction that's really not considered a beginner's faction but which you might enjoy anyway. It's about as complicated as the Byzantine's but without many of their pluses. It's the Holy Roman Empire. The reason I mention it is that it contains Friesland, roughly equivalent to Holland. Sometimes I think going with your national identity can make up for a lot with passion.

I'm a 7th-generation American (somehow there doesn't seem to be an American faction :)--but still care a lot about my older Welsh heritage, and bought the expansion largely so I could play the Welsh. Like UltraWar mentioned they're not the easiest faction but they're the first one I played on the Viking map, and I had a great time in spite of their limitations just because they're Welsh. Don't know if it makes a difference to you, but if you're diehard Dutch you might go with the Germans just so you can play your homeland.

Anyway, whatever you choose, have fun. It's a great game.

[Spartakus]

It's the Holy Roman Empire. The reason I mention it is that it contains Friesland, roughly equivalent to Holland. Sometimes I think going with your national identity can make up for a lot with passion.

Indeed, I think many do just that, choose their first faction out of nationalistic sentiment. It's inspirational. I played the Danes first, as I had no clue what faction to pick and thought I might as well go with the Scandinavian one, being from those parts myself.

Still I wouldn't recommend starting out with any of the empires, neither the Byzantine or the German one. The bigger you are the more enemies you make, you might end up harried from all directions while still in the process of learning to manage provinces, build troops and leading them in battle. Disloyal generals and rebellions might also become a problem if you don't know how to deal with it. It's my advice to play at least one smaller faction on beforehand.

I agree with Spain, it's the beginners faction. Rich lands both in agriculture and trade, nice troop rooster, a healthy royal family, and best of all you have an infidel neighbour in the Almohads you can smash without suffering excommunication and - in the worst possible scenario - a crusade towards your lands (I've seen this happen even on the easy-setting).

I see England and Egypt also suggested a lot. The latter really isn't a beginners faction, as already mentioned by Martok the muslim factions require a little more finesse to succedd in battle and they are probably the most crusade-prone faction in the game. The English are a better choice, but their lands in western mainland Europe always complicate things. Most likely you'll become embroiled in war with at least two of the following factions at the same time; the French, the Germans, the Italians, the Spanish or the Aragonese. Excluding the Aragonese, I've actually managed to be attacked by all these during just a few turns time. Needless to say, I was drowned by their sheer numerical strength and ended up clinging desperately to Wessex.

The Spanish, I say. The Byzantine and German empires have great potential but only an experienced player can take full advantege of this.

[King Clas]

Danmark I would say is a good start, they have easy expansion possibities and when the Holy Roman Empire come tumbeling down from the inside you can parade down and grab lots of land easily.

And oh get VI it not only gives a new campaign but also expands the original campaigns. :)

[Viking]

I actually thought of doing that myself. Perhaps I`ll even do it.

Eventually I bought both MTW and VI(couldn`t resist for those low prices when I saw them ~D). Then my question is: are there any patches for MTW on the VI CD, or do I have to download them?

[zakalwe]

England or Spain i would say

Byzantine is a nice faction to play on your second go.

I actually took poland for my first campaign. worked ok but was very skint


I would also recommend getting VI, and then installing either the VH or BKB mod. They have done nothing but improve an already fantastic game.

[HopAlongBunny]

If you don't get VI then you will want to install patch 1.1; fixes many bugs.

England is a good starting nation; corner position; establish a strong fleet (and trade) and you are almost untouchable.
Enjoy ~:)

[Zarax]

Eventually I bought both MTW and VI(couldn`t resist for those low prices when I saw them ~D). Then my question is: are there any patches for MTW on the VI CD, or do I have to download them?

By installing VI you'll patch MTW too, it's got the latest exe IIRC

[Butcher]

I agree with the danes, especially on GA.

[Viking]

By installing VI you'll patch MTW too, it's got the latest exe IIRC

Ah, that was good to hear. Now there`s just the patch for VI that I`ll need to download ~:cheers:

[Marcellus]

For your first game, I'd reccommend the Egyptians in the early period. There is a great opportunity for expansion (west across Africa, destroying the Almohads), and you can't run out of money, so it is a comfortable entrance to the game. ~:)

[DensterNY]

Well Dutch guy like you I made the backward migration from Rome to Medieval Total War and am playing my first campaign. I choose England (Early) because they seemed to have a great position geographically since the body of your lands are on an island with only one land entrance from the continental Europe.

I made it my first priority to conquer Scotland and then to build a fort there as it allowed me to produce Highland Clansmen, who are pretty kick butt attackers in the beginning. These along with the troops from my other provinces helped feed my war against France which attacked very early on. Wales, another rebel province, was my next priority once things calmed down with France as they give bonuses to Longbowmen. These bowmen along with the Billmen from Mercia will give me a force to be reckoned with into the later stages of the Early period.

Also, definitely read FrogBeastEgg's beginners guide to MTW... the playing dynamics are a lot different than with Rome and also you will probably fight your wars a lot differently than in RTW.

[antisocialmunky]

Byzantines are always good. They have everything and is the only true empire.

[EatYerGreens]

And just to add to Bretwalda's thought: as the Byz, you MUST BUILD SHIPS...along with trading posts (and their upgrades). And do the farm upgrades. THEN the money will roll in (via trade from the ships especially). Good luck!

I got part way into a Normal level Byz campaign (plain MTW) a while ago before eventually losing the hard drive but, now I've put VI in place I've just restarted as Byz.

You say 'MUST BUILD SHIPS' but, even with a dockyard on hand, I'm expecting to have to churn out armoured Byz Inf and the odd Spearman for the first 15 years or so before I'm content with my border defences. Three years' pause to build each ship requires careful planning, short of peace breaking out. I thought 2 years per VG was bad enough...


I'm struck by the way you are totally hamstrung at the start by only having Constantinople to train decent troops for your first 4 turns. On Expert, you only have 4000 florins, with maybe 1000-1500 profits. You have 11 provinces needing a fort to kick things off but no way can you afford it all at once. Careful money management is the name of the game here.

It is certainly good practice for province management and developing specialisms. Whilst you are gifted a shipbuilding facility in your capital, you'll not get much chance to use it while you raise troops in the first decade or two, so you'll need to build up another province towards keep + port, for shipbuilder, which always looks pricey when you'd rather be spending that on improving crop yeilds, say. Just remember that you can build the crop improvements while simultaneously churning out ships but if you go for crops first, you'll be 2, 6, or 12 years late with your trade routes from going for the 20,40, 60% levels first.

+1 Pronoai Allagion from Nicaea looks like a good idea but when you go into detail about the developments required, you realise (sometimes *after* spending the initial outlay) that it's going to be 20-odd years before you finally get your hands on them. To top it all, they won't be armoured if you stick to the minimum requiements, which is what you'd have got if you'd only built the necessaries in the capital.... but that just means more units fight for a place in the training queue. :dizzy2:

Don't forget that the capital also has a ready-built church, giving a morale bonus to troops trained there. Most of the Catholic factions are many years away from affording the keep-level castles, required to match this. Notice that ByzInf are described on the info parchment as having 'poor morale', so your early built, armoured ones are having that cancelled out. If you decide to build swordmiths in other provinces, so as to be able to recover battle casualties rapidly, remember that these will be just as described. Mismatched troop quality could prove troublesome in a pitched battle, when 3 out of 4 decide to rout and the one decent one then gets mobbed....

Constantinople may find itself permanently occupied - when not producing VGs, it will likely be retraining the lower quality BIs and other types, moving in rotation around your lands - and almost never have time in hand to produce any ship.

The secondary province (or two, even) which you've dedicated to shipbuilding will similarly be preoccipied, as will Trebizond for your archers, so others will need to be developed for the other types you will want. Okay, you get horse archers and maybe ByzCav on the route to PAs, so Nicaea for those and maybe another province again for Napthas and catapults.

On normal, I lost Naples early but I took a gamble this time and managed to get to peasants, UMs and now spears before rebellion set in or the Sicilians came to say hello. The money for that fort and bits could have been spent better elsewhere but if I keep it long enough for a port and a TP, I only need one ship to start trade to Italy and Hungary.

Lastly, beware who you war with. With ships and trade, your income can be vast but it will all collapse overnight if you pick an opponent whose ships are side by side with all of yours.

I also find the AI seems to respond to the trickle of income it gets from import ing your stuff and too many incoming trade sources connected to you sometimes triggers it to launch a naval attack. Recently as the Almos, I was doing okay with trade until I put one ship into the Black Sea. About 4 extra ports came online but the following turn, the Byz sunk a ship somewhere else and I was blockaded just about everywhere.

This advice goes for the English as well - don't increase your army size to match your trade income unless you're fully prepared to demobilise huge sections of it when war with another naval power breaks out and your income is suddenly cut off. Enjoy it while it lasts but bank it and use it for your war chest in years to come.

It's a pity the economy summary doesn't give subtotals for the contribution from sea trade, so that you can see how close to the line you're getting in terms of army maintainance budget, should trade be cut off. I can do this manually but it's pretty tedious when the list is long.

[antisocialmunky]

As the Byz, I take out the turns in 5 turns and then run through Egypt before they can horde peasants.

[EatYerGreens]

Hee hee, and there was me fussing over tax rates and putting down rebellions on Cyprus (40 Horse Archers), then Rhodes (60 Archers) who fire off their arrows while I lurk in the forest, then run away without a decent fight.

Do you take all the units you can gather with you and leave empty provinces behind? (potential for rebellions, no?)

Are you also attacking 2 provinces per turn?



I've heard of 'kill them off early' but I never realised it meant THAT early! ~D

If I can get direct to the Sultan with just spears from the front and Kat's from behind, then I think I could cope with that. The inf can be free to chase after the pez/UMs but never seem to run fast enough to catch them...

[littlebktruck]

Spanish are definitely a good faction to start with. You can expand through all of North Africa and still only require 3 defensive armies: One in the last North African province you have and one each in Navarre and Aragon (assuming you took those). I was spoiled by the lack of defense needed; I'm having trouble in my new Italian campaign because I need a defensive army in almost every province.

[Advo-san]

Spanish are definitely a good faction to start with.

I agree, but the Almohads are also good for the same reason. Using Granada (in VI) or Granada and Murcia (in XL) as a border line, you can take up the task of uniting all muslims under your banner (see: destroy the eggys and turks), stabilize a borderline in Constantinople and Khazar, and after that I would suggest you followed the footsteps of Abdel Rachman untill the whole of Europe becomes a tranquil, orange empire! ~:cheers:

[dgfred]

The Danes seem to me to be a good one to start out with ~;) . Just one
province to start with Sweden (very nice) and Norway ripe for the taking.
You also have a fertile king :pimp2: and several HRE provinces you can smack
when you are ready. Longboats will expand your trade network and the
world will suffer the wrath of the Vikings :medievalcheers: . Good luck.

[yesdachi]

I agree, but the Almohads are also good for the sme reason. Using Granada (in VI) or Granada and Murcia (in XL) as a border line, you can take up the task of uniting all muslims under your banner (see: destroy the eggys and turks), stabilize a borderline in Constantinople and Khazar, and after that I would suggest you followed the footsteps of Abdel Rachman untill the whole of Europe becomes a tranquil, orange empire! ~:cheers:
But watch out for crusades!

[Ciaran]

I´ve started with English as well, you´ve got Scotland, Wales and Ireland as rebels close by, as well you can easily get Navarra, which gives you iron (even though I don´t know what good that does, you can´t build mines). If you ally with the Germans, you can smash France between your two forces and as the Germans start the war and you merely support them, you don´t get the pope on your back. At least, he didn´t get mad at me so far.
A bit of a downside is, your provinces aren´t that rich in farming. The highest farming income, without upgrades, is about 200, and that´s not really much according to frog´s guide (which, by the way I would recommend).

[Advo-san]

as well you can easily get Navarra, which gives you iron (even though I don´t know what good that does, you can´t build mines).
You can improve the attack of the units trained in Navarra if you build the apropriate building, the one with the anvil. ~:) Only available in provinces with iron!

[Advo-san]

But watch out for crusades!
Indeed ~:) ~:)

[Ciaran]

You can improve the attack of the units trained in Navarra if you build the apropriate building, the one with the anvil. ~:) Only available in provinces with iron!
What kind of fortress level do I need for that? At the moment, I´ve got a keep there and I can´t build anything with an anvil.

[EatYerGreens]

What kind of fortress level do I need for that? At the moment, I´ve got a keep there and I can´t build anything with an anvil.

You must be one of these people who bought the bargain-bin edition, without the tech tree. You might find it in .pdf format, by browsing the CD but this isn't much help when you're in mid game and want to look something up!

For the record, Metalsmith isn't available until you upgrade the keep to castle level (2000 florins) but will be worth it as it opens up other building possibilities as well.

In my opinion, you don't really require to upgrade the attack level of your troops unless and until one of the AI factions has somehow out-teched you and is beginning to flaunt units with higher level armour upgrades than yours have.

The good thing is that careful circulation of the more common unit types around your empire and through the metalsmith province for retraining allows you to steadily re-equip your forces with the improved weapons without increasing your overall army maintainance costs. Improved armour or weapon rating seemingly has no bearing on the training cost of brand new units (though I sometimes think it should when I see screenshots with enormaous bank balances ~;) ).

I know there is a cost (proportion of full price) when you retrain a cadre back to full strength but I have been unable to tell whether we are charged full unit price when we merely re-equip a full strength unit. If anyone can clarify this from personal observations, I'd be very grateful.

[dgfred]

I got the bargain-bin edition too :embarassed: . I sometimes have trouble
with the tech tree and what comes before what, and what buildings you
need to build a specific unit :furious3: , but you guys have been alot of
help already ~:cheers: . I've only had the game about 2 months but have
thoroughly enjoyed it so far ~D .

[EatYerGreens]

Well it's great to be of help and it is sometimes quicker just to come online and ask.

However, it is perfectly possible to learn your way through the tech tree from resources which the game gives you, if only you knew where to look. It would be typical of the bargain edition to lack a manual as well...

In which case you might not have realised that right clicking on a building icon - either in the province info window or on the building 'shopping list' parchment - brings up a secondary info parchment, describing what the building is for.

On there you should also see a list of possible upgrades or 'pre-requisite for {other building type}' which gives you all these clues.

Now things like the town watch you would probably plump for building because it's so cheap, quick and not a lot else is available. That unlocks the bowyer and spearmaker. Spearmaker tells you it's required for swordsmith. Where's swordsmith then? Check out the description for keep and you find it there.

Each new thing you construct often adds more stuff you didn't know you needed to be able to afford to the shopping list. Compulsive, innit?

[yesdachi]

I sometimes have trouble with the tech tree

try this, the tek tree is nice but includes some VI stuff.
http://www.totalwar.co.kr/medieval/

[dgfred]

try this, the tek tree is nice but includes some VI stuff.
http://www.totalwar.co.kr/medieval/


Thanks pal! That link really helps. Thanks again.

[VikingHorde]

I also recommend byzantines in early era because they are easy in to play, have lots of money, cool powerful units and they can't get excom by the pope. Later you can try out the English/early era who is one of the easyer catholic factions.

[Ciaran]

You must be one of these people who bought the bargain-bin edition, without the tech tree. You might find it in .pdf format, by browsing the CD but this isn't much help when you're in mid game and want to look something up!

I am and I´ve got the techtree that´s in one of the beginner´s download packs on this site, but you´re right, looking something up is a pain as I´ve made bad experiences with ALT-tabbing out of a game and back, a ctd when going back was among the harmless things to happen.


It would be typical of the bargain edition to lack a manual as well...
They kindly included that, though I wonder for how long that is going to happen in the future. After all, there´s the internet and all the forums where people can ask - why bother making a manual for the late-comers?

[dgfred]

try this, the tek tree is nice but includes some VI stuff.
http://www.totalwar.co.kr/medieval/


I'm still looking this site over ----- Thanks again! :coffeenews:
Lots of great info ~;) .

[sunsmountain]

Had the most fun with Spain.

[Martok]

Had the most fun with Spain.


Agreed. The Spanish are definitely my favorite faction (followed close behind by the Eggies and the Byz). They have a lot of good nearby provinces into which they can expand, they can Crusade (which is very useful against the Almohads), they can usually get El Cid for a decent price.....and of course they get Jinnettes! ~:)

The Egyptians can get some massive trade income going very quickly, and their starting units are ideally suited to fighting in desert and arid regions. The major drawbacks to playing as them is you pretty much have to take out the Turks and later on the Byzantines--and you're often the target of Catholic Crusades. (Of course, this can give you the opportunity to Jihad, which is always fun. ~D )

The Byzantines, as VH pointed out, get some good income and *great* units, especially in Early (gotta love the Katanks and VH!). As I've said in a previous post, however, I really don't recommend them if it's your first time playing Medieval. The Byz sit at the crossroads of the world, and you become overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you need to keep track of as a result......

[EatYerGreens]

The Byzantines, as VH pointed out, get some good income and *great* units, especially in Early (gotta love the Katanks and VH!). As I've said in a previous post, however, I really don't recommend them if it's your first time playing Medieval. The Byz sit at the crossroads of the world, and you become overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you need to keep track of as a result......

Well, in spite of having started maybe half a dozen campaigns, I've still yet to complete one so, in many ways this is still my 'first time playing medieval'!

Byz, Early, Conquest, Normal difficulty, default unit size.

Basically, I've just about got to the 'overwhelmed' stage. I've grabbed Serbia, rolled up the Turks and the Egyptians and only recently broken into rebel-held Crimea and Khazar. I have ships trading as far west as Corsica and a more than comfortable income (5000-6000 pa profits). Almost so much coming in that it's a struggle to spend it all. Actually spending isn't the problem, it's sensible, well-planned expenditure. All too easy to build things just for the heck of it, with no proper plan in mind, perhaps leading to unnecessary duplication, where specialisations would be more efficient use of funds.

There are loads of provinces to look after, right from the start (I think they begin with about 11 or 12, certainly more than you can initially afford to build up simultaneously and a few of mine still lack even a fort) and there's an almost bewildering range of development choices to make. The trouble is that, following conquest, most provinces are reduced to bare bones and need rebuilding from the ground up just to get to the basic level required to produce the most fundamental unit, the Byz infantry. Money is no object at the moment but the years of waiting are the frustrating thing.

I want VG's in the roster, 2yrs for each unit, which keeps the capital training facilities tied up, so I make do by bulking up on spears units. I so nearly had a second swordsmith in Greece when the Sicilians invaded in its completion year. I eliminated them on the following turn (got Sicily as an unoccupied freebie too) but the five stacks they re-emerged with, on Malta, smashing its port in the process, will be there for the rest of the campaign - as will be my trapped priest, assuming they can't even afford to build a port with all that maintainance to pay and an inability to demobilise.

This is probably the first campaign where I've been in the financial 'comfort zone' but it actually seems to make things more difficult. When the question is 'what can I afford to build this year', the answer is simple and logical because the choices are so few or the needs so pressing. Now that I can, theoretically, build whatever I like, I have to be that much more disciplined about sticking to plans made years beforehand and not deviating from the chosen development path.

Of course, just as I was sitting pretty, I now find I have two Crusades against me and a set of six or more allies dwindles down to nil faster than I can say 'cheers, mate'. Just got the king's younger brother married off to the Italians in time (complete with flashing warning showing that their alliance with me conflicted with their own alliance with Spain, who'd launched their crusade but no hostilities had started yet). Just one year later, they objected to the opening of my war with Spain and sided with them.
I've recently repelled the French's crusade but cannot attack it's remnants as it's sat on Hungary's lands and I could do without an additional war with them just now.

In spite of hasty scouting with priests, I can't actually locate the Spanish crusade at the moment. That's the least of my problems at the moment as they polished off the re-emerged Almos and took Cyrenacia before I considered myself ready to do so. I've just taken that off them but the follow up attack on Tunisia got called off when their turnout was 500 more than mine and their 4 pages of reinforcements (lots of single-man units in there) spelled both a tedious slog and heavy casualties, win or no win.

So I now have large defensive forces tied down on the Hungarian border, a stack-building race in Africa, a time delay before I'm finally ready to churn VG's, BI's and TA's all at the same time and the Steppes excursion now seems like a badly mis-timed third front, stretching me even thinner. The former Egyptian and Turk provinces have been drained of all but the weaker unit types and I feel that my high annual profits are indicative of having an army which is basically too small.

In short, it's an 'eggshell' empire at the moment and will take maybe 20 years to beef up into something more resilient.

By way of an aside, this brings me back to the discussion about whether to role-play and be 'surprised' by the Golden Horde and under-defended against it or to make preparations now and call it 'proper garrisoning'. It's 1176, so I still have time to spare.

In the meantime, I'm having to adjust to getting several battles per turn, some of which are not ones of my choosing. Did you ever get that thing where it's late at night but you say to yourself 'I'll just do one more End-Year before I go to bed' and then find you have another hour or two's work to do? :stars:

[Roark]

@ EYG:

1. How many heirs do you have, and what is their highest command rating?
2. How many ship-building provinces?
3. How many decent unit-producing provinces (like Byz Inf. or better)?

Thanks.

IMHO, Khazar is rarely a mistake to invade. I'm totally addicted to Steppe Cav at the moment. They are quick enough to outflank anything, plug gaps, and clock up routers for that Butcher vice...

[Azi Tohak]

I played Almohads for my first shot. No darned Pope screwing with you, and if you invest in mines early, you will be fine on cash. I think they are a great faction to learn. Mind, I played Early, so the great Almohad Urban Militias proved to be devestating. Next, my Byzantines for a few campaigns, now Italy (which I really really like).

Azi

[EatYerGreens]

I played Almohads for my first shot. No darned Pope screwing with you, and if you invest in mines early, you will be fine on cash. I think they are a great faction to learn. Mind, I played Early, so the great Almohad Urban Militias proved to be devestating. Next, my Byzantines for a few campaigns, now Italy (which I really really like).

Azi

I ran an Almo campaign until it developed a repeating crash problem which I put down to gavesave corruption. I chose that point to install the VI expansion, which I'd had for ages but not bothered to install (don't ask!).

I liked the gold mines, I liked having just two border provinces, I liked gaining general stars from rebellious Portugal, I liked being able to access the non-coastal ship areas but I'd only got as far as wiping out the Spanish and breaking through the Pyrenees by the time the game got corrupted.

I agree that the AUM's ate up just about anything, suffering few casualties in the process and racking up valour like nobody's business. As far as I was concerned, they were the Almo equivalent of BI's - and dirt cheap too, not just cost per unit but in terms of required tech level.

Word around the forums was that they were suspiciously overpowered, until the modifications made by VI are in place, that is. I have to agree but I also wanted to try them out for myself, in unmodified form, before entering into any debate about them.

I forget if the Almos begin the game with any fort in Granada (I think they start with a keep in Cordoba) but, let's face it, your getting a unit with +1 valour bonus starting from turn seven, at the latest. No other faction on the map gets that kind of starting edge, other than in their generals/kings units. How the AI manages to **** up the Almos so badly, when it is in charge of them, I cannot imagine.

[EatYerGreens]

@ EYG:

1. How many heirs do you have, and what is their highest command rating?
2. How many ship-building provinces?
3. How many decent unit-producing provinces (like Byz Inf. or better)?

Thanks.

IMHO, Khazar is rarely a mistake to invade. I'm totally addicted to Steppe Cav at the moment. They are quick enough to outflank anything, plug gaps, and clock up routers for that Butcher vice...

Thanks for asking, Roark.

1) I think the first Emperor is the one who has six sons. They have all died of old age by the stage I've reached but their descendents kept their star ratings and character traits. The emperor before last gave me a scare by not fathering any sons until into his mid forties. The current Emperor is Constantine XI, who came to the throne at just 18. He's 4-star, influece 7 (previous rulers got up as far as Inf 9) and his younger brother is 7 star but has progressed from 'sybarite' to 'gluttony' and is losing valour points hand over fist. I have an ex-royal general in North Africa who is 8* defence, 9* attack (skilled defender +1, Expert Attacker +2, so base must be 7*)

2) Three, following capture of a dockyard in Sicily but that is currently targeted by a Spanish crusade of 2500+ troops. It finally appeared in Venice, (no Spanish ships sighted in my sea zones yet) but they could theoretically invade on the next turn, by using Italian ships. They are allies but Italy is neutral to me. I have a choice between sinking an Italian ship to force it down the peninsular, through Papal territory and fighting two battles instead of one, or keeping my trade income, most of which is to Italian and Papal ports. Harumph! Still in two minds whether to do 'scorched earth', or whether to stay positive and assume that, even if defeated, a siege-lift operation would be successful against the slashed-up remnants of the crusaders. Certainly a shame to trash my only level-3 castle. Didn't even build it myself.
Not that I've been in any major rush to produce ships, since combat with Sicily ended. If I need another shipbuilder, I have ports in the Levant where there's no real competition for training slots. One of my current shipbuilding sites, Rhodes, is specialising towards spies, so I will need two replacement build sites, in due time.

It was just typical that a storm sinks my only Dromon in the Aegean just as I get sight of the Crusade. I was still able to move a decent number of troops to stage a defence of Sicily but not as many as I'd have liked and not my first choice of general either (I have one with a +3 morale virtue and spare troops but can't make the move from Nicaea). Next turn will be, errr, fun. :dizzy2:

3) Constantinople is up to silver armour, spearmaker's Guild, Horse Breeder's guild, church, monastery, Reliquary in 3 more years. I'm making the most of that armour level on VG's (new/retrained) or the odd Kat for restocking generals' units. I built a stop-gap unit of silver V0 PA's there too, since Nicaea still isn't going to be ready for some years yet. As you know, Nicaea gives +1V but their armour level will lag behind for some years after they first become available, curently +1A, so +6 and +8 years to fully catch up.

Trebizond, with level 1 armourer, for +1V TA's. After the damage to Greece, I built a swordsmith here for 'standby' armoured-BI production. Having stocked up on archers somewhat, there was time to produce a few A1 BI's from here.

Rum has just started churning out unarmoured 'desert' BI's.

Greece is being rebuilt towards its former status as main BI production area. These will be armoured, for the central European armies.

Khazar siege fell in the second year, wrecking many very useful buildings, so I should have fought it on the battlemap (I think that saves many structures???). Crops reduced to zero improvements, tradepost gone and there was no port anyway. Luckily I'm able to churn Steppe Cav from there while the crops/TP/Port are put in place. Castle reduced to level 2.

Anatolia was kept blank, save for farms, for many years. It's currently building from ground up for yet another source of BI. In the meantime, the Gov's virtues have boosted him up to something ludicrous, like Acumen 9! He ought to be in charge of Constantinople with that rating but I can't be bothered to switch titles around just now.

Syria is going to be building Assassins with the local valour bonus (the one not mentioned on the parchment). I could upgrade the Constantinople brothel for the same effect but I don't forsee any time soon when troop production can be paused for one year, let alone for the number I had in mind. At least one per province, plus some 'expendables'. I recently lost two V4 assassins on the same turn, most likely to enemy BF's. :furious3: The Spanish have a drinking den in Valencia (where one of mine was caught), the only source of enemy agents I've yet sighted, so I need to guard against these. I could upgrade my BWTs to BF's but I prefer my agents to gain valour by making agent catches on home soil and BF's always get the credit, instead of the spy/assassin, wherever the two are together.

Sinai and Palestine are churning priests, so my hitherto poor intelligence about the state of central Europe will soon improve. Palestine will likely just build up castle levels and religious buildings and not produce troops.

Antioch and Tripoli are building for trade/crops but they'd be ideal for ships.

Basic units like HA's, spears, UM's, I can produce from multiple locations and in armoured or unarmoured form. Lack of BI sources meant I've practically overbuilt these types, with enough for 3-4 of them per stack. I'm certainly in a position to begin demobilising old pez units.

Khazar cost me an embarassing defeat, on the first attempt. Useful to discover that I'm totally pants at all-cav versus all-cav battles. I'll spare the story for another thread, I think. Second attempt, just took loads of spears, suffered worse casualties than they did, but ultimately, most of their units exited the map without properly getting into the fight.

I know that it's well worth the effort, from previous incomplete campaigns. It's a right earner, with three trade goods. Unimproved lands yield 250-260, ungoverened, putting it in the same league as Greece, which I rate as being second only to Constantinople, amongst the Byz's starting provinces. A high acumen govenor pays dividends here.

Now I know you were leading towards some kind of advice and, even though I could probably manage without any (part of the challenge is working it out for oneself) that's not the same as saying that I wouldn't welcome any you cared to offer. ~;) Hopefully there's plenty of food for thought here.

Before anyone says, yes I am floating around the forum as a way of postponing the upcoming huge battle for Sicily (worth about 1788 per year to me, unless I raze it) until I've had time to think how to pull it off. The 1800+ French (including stolen Szek's) were fended off in two battles, using only a stack and a bit. This time it's Jinettes/Javs/RKs and the 8-unit garrison just wouldn't have cut it. I've bunged extra troops in but still don't really have a proper plan. Give me time. ~D

[Martok]

I ran an Almo campaign until it developed a repeating crash problem which I put down to gavesave corruption. I chose that point to install the VI expansion, which I'd had for ages but not bothered to install (don't ask!).

I liked the gold mines, I liked having just two border provinces, I liked gaining general stars from rebellious Portugal, I liked being able to access the non-coastal ship areas but I'd only got as far as wiping out the Spanish and breaking through the Pyrenees by the time the game got corrupted.

I agree that the AUM's ate up just about anything, suffering few casualties in the process and racking up valour like nobody's business. As far as I was concerned, they were the Almo equivalent of BI's - and dirt cheap too, not just cost per unit but in terms of required tech level.

Word around the forums was that they were suspiciously overpowered, until the modifications made by VI are in place, that is. I have to agree but I also wanted to try them out for myself, in unmodified form, before entering into any debate about them.

I forget if the Almos begin the game with any fort in Granada (I think they start with a keep in Cordoba) but, let's face it, your getting a unit with +1 valour bonus starting from turn seven, at the latest. No other faction on the map gets that kind of starting edge, other than in their generals/kings units. How the AI manages to **** up the Almos so badly, when it is in charge of them, I cannot imagine.


In Viking Invasion, the Almos' AI was switched from "aggressive" to "defensive" (or whatever the opposite designation is). They start with the same assets as they do in original Medieval, but they rarely try to attack anymore (except the occasional invasion of Portugal, and/or to retake lands lost to another faction). That's why you can smack them around so easily with VI installed.

[EatYerGreens]

In Viking Invasion, the Almos' AI was switched from "aggressive" to "defensive" (or whatever the opposite designation is). They start with the same assets as they do in original Medieval, but they rarely try to attack anymore (except the occasional invasion of Portugal, and/or to retake lands lost to another faction). That's why you can smack them around so easily with VI installed.


Well, I suppose it's more historically accurate, in that they were more into enriching their level of culture within certain territories, rather than being expansionist aggressors. Still, it's a pity about the change in VI. I'm going to miss being the English and encountering camels in Aquitaine ~D

This next bit really belongs in the 'Pics & History of your Empire' thread but I'll stick it here for the time being, as I referred to it on page 2...

The French crusade has made no further forays since its second time of being repulsed and is reduced to suffering desertions in Hungary. I must track down the French king to see what his influence is now. They reduced the English to just Scotland and finished the HRE, so they're otherwise quite a power in this game. I'll soon have enough troops spare to expand into Hungarian lands and I wouldn't mind betting that the remnants of it will still be around to play a part in the defence against me.

The Spanish crusade surprised me by not using the Italian ships after all. Instead, it came over land, via the Papal States. A daft thing to do as this allowed me to reconnect my ship lanes and have a spare turn in which to shuffle units around to get precisely the mix of troops I wanted and get the right general in place.

I had a keep under construction in Naples, which was 2 years from completion in the turn I expected their actual attack and contemplated cancellation when they failed to take the sea route to Sicily. The bad news for them was that I just about matched their troop numbers, which made me a bit more gung-ho, so I let the build continue. We won but with considerable use of reinforcements, an unimpressive ratio of 2.5 to 1 but casualties of around 700 (give or take my captured men get returned to me). More pleasing was that the 750 they had left didn't make a second attack and the keep is now completed. This allows me to leave a small garrison behind and either redeploy excess troops elsewhere or say 'screw the trade' and make a bid for Rome.

My Byz holdings are now close to being on a par with their historical peak, as seen in a TV programme about their fire-ships, which I watched avidly, the other day. Tunisia will complete the North African picture, once I've dealt with the three stacks of Spanish currently holding it. Rome is beckoning, if not historically a part of it. Khazar and Crimea are mine. Pereslavl has been strangely empty for over ten years and I could have walked into it at any time in the past five but didn't want to weaken Khazar unduly. I gamesaved with an 'attack' in progress but my one-and-only remaining ally, Novgorod, have made rapid advances against rebels recently and are positioned next door to it too. If we both grab on the same turn, it could turn nasty on the northern border.

The Reliqary is complete in the Capital and the Cathedral is under way. Should be finished by 1197. Trade is good, 6-7 destinations on most export lists, profits around 6500 per year. Balance is under 20k but that's because just about every province is busy building something. Spy training starts year after next. Peachy. ~:cool:

[dgfred]

I am pretty new to the game, so take my views with a grain of salt :dizzy2: :

I've tried HRE, Danes, French, and Spain for test runs when I first got the
game. I also gave the Egyptians, Alo's and Aragon for smaller tries. From
what I noticed, Spain seemed to be the easiest to get going, with the
Danes in second. France was also very easy if you rushed the English, but
that is what you have to do with the Danes too for the most part. My only
problem with Spain is that I don't fight too well yet with the Jinuettes (sp),
but I'm learning fast. They have great position, very good lands, tough units,
and usually several great generals...... what more could you ask for?

My favorite is still HRE for ancestrial reasons ~:cool: .