The Cossacks 2 gameplay thread.

[Leet Eriksson]

I got the game ~:) but freaking hell i can't win a skirmish map on normal, or anything else for that matter, the enemy either overwhelmes me, or in the case of preset battlefields the enemy is put in an advantagous position that no matter what i do my forces get wiped out.

I know there are members who have the game, but if they wouldn't mind and explain how to play this game i'd be pleased, step by step if you wouldn't mind. How to build a base, what to recruit and how many squads, how do i deal with the resources gaurded by militias and such.

Also the units (lets take the french for example) whats the difference between fusiliers and national gaurd? Dragoon and Hussar?..etc

Thanks in advance.

This thread is not restrictly about helping me, its about gameplay in general, if you have something to post you are welcome.

[econ21]

Faisal, I found a good presentation of the unit stats on the web. The link is on my work computer and I'll post it on Monday if you don't find it but it should not be hard to find through a google search (that's what I did). Unlike the absurd Imperial Glory stats posted here, the stats in Cossacks seemed fairly intuitive, although there were some oddities. IIRC cossacks - in reality in the period irregulars not much good for open battle - are the best cavalry. I suppose one should forgive that in a game called Cossacks 2, but for me it was enough to take the game off my buy list.

I'd be interested if anyone could persuade me it's worth playing. The fact that you are losing makes it sound more interesting (after RTWs low difficultly level), but are you losing because the computer fights well or because it rushes better than you? I'd really like a TW type game with good Napoleonic battles, but don't really want a traditional RTS.

[lars573]

http://cossacks.heavengames.com/cossacks2/units/index.shtml

This is the Cossacks 2 unit viewer from cossacks heaven.

Also C2 (cossacks 2) is in RTS games a game that favors turtling over rushing. In this game he who builds biggest fastest, has no guarantee of victory. In fact it's a guarantee of defeat.

Ok the difference between french fusiliers and national guard is morale. National gurad will break and run much sooner than fusiliers. Historically the french national guard was the reserve/militia of France made up of 14-17 yearolds. Fusiliers are the fully trained regular 18-30 yearold line troops.

The difference between Hussars and Dragoons is that Hussars are light cavalry, and Dragoons are medium/heavy cavalry. Also Dragoons have a carbine musket while Hussars have a blunderbuss (IE a shotgun). As light cavalry Hussars are lightning quick but are only good at attacking infantry in the flank/rear. Heavy cavalry like Dragoons and Cuirassiers can attack infantry frontally with enough XP and from the flank if they aren't that experienced.

For playing the game well you have to understand something about the Cossacks AI, they never comprehend failure. If you defeat an attack the AI will keep throwing troops at your's till they win or are beaten. So when they pick an avenue of attack they will always come that way till they win. So if you beat back an advance put all your troops where that attack came from, quickly. Also at the very start cheat for resources, press enter and type in deposits to get 50000 of each resource. First thing you should do if que up 40 peasnts to gather wood and stone. Then send your starting peasnats to build 1 or 2 barracks when their built que up 480 fusiliers/musketeers, if your one of the 3 empires (France, Austria, Russia) que up 240 militia troops (National guard, home guard, landwehr) and 240 fusiliers. Build an acadamyand a pallace, and at the same time send 2 companies of militia or musketeers to capture more resource villiages. As soon as you can build more fusilier companies, then some voltigeurs and chasseurs. Then after you have all the military buildings up build stables and foundries. Also when your infantry companies get depleted station them near a villigage of yours and they will be re-stocked automatically. Hope that helps, also see me posts in the Cossacks 2 thread for directions on combat.

Here https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46221

[Leet Eriksson]

Simon: I'm still a newb to this style of game, i think either the AI is intelligent or i'm not reacting as quickly(ie dumb), the AI doesn't rush, they send in formations of troops and they don't charge mindlessly, blundering is not an option in this game, 2 enemy fusiliers (240 men) defeated my small army of 45 hussars, 120 fusiliers and 120 national guards, which was a pretty sad site for me :p

Usually when you place a troop in line, the enemy also does it in the green region of your units line of sight, which has a miss rate of 70%+ or more. Effectively the fight is a stalemate at this point, no one side will advance unless the other side fires, and the computer is very patient, it sent a unit of light infatry at me (highlanders) and i countered with my own (national gaurds) while i waited for them to shoot, the enemy pc took the time to build another unit this time musketeers and came in and crushed my national guards, i tried saving the day by sending uhlans but i don't know whats their purpose so i charged them and they got killed..i didn't post much of a threat after that ~;p

lars573: thanks alot, i didn't know half of the stuff i could use in cossacks 2 ~;p i guess i'll go and give it a try :bow: though isn't there a strategy without cheating?

[lars573]

Hmm, you people down on cheating the AI cheats anyway. The starting resources you get should be enough, probably more than enough, to get 40 peasants and 2 fusilier companies. Just get your peasants on gathering wood and stone quick. These resources are used to upgrade the mining and farming towns you have so they gather more food metal and coal. Every upgrade for a villiage is double the miners/famers.


Also I usually cheat when my resources are running low. Say any one under 10,000 or so.

[Leet Eriksson]

Yeah the AI gets everything together real fast, i don't play fair anymore :p, just cheat and build a lot of units.

I also got down to playing the egyptians today, their archers are kinda awkward to control and most of their units don't need drummers, actually i think only yataghans and janissaries need them. On another note, i noticed once your units get full experience (something like 3 lines and 3 triangle like thingies ~;p) they start to really become killing machines, i could route 3 fusiliers, 2 dragoons with 1 fully experienced mameluke cavalry.

I still can't figure out how to let my limbers move cannons around, they don't seem to move at all ~;p

[lars573]

Well at that level, the number of XP points they have are above the bars (lines) and chevrons (triangle things). You just gottem some unit promoted to guards. IE they have over 300 XP. I'll get back to you later, I don't have the full game yet. EB isn't going to get it in till monday. :embarassed: :furious3:
But from feed back from Germans and other europeans limbers are a tricky thing to get to work. The animation is a little broken, but there is a patch to fix it.

[Leet Eriksson]

Hmmm the game tends to freeze in battle of europe, i just finished my first battle in it, and in the second battle i did a sizeable chunk of it and it froze, it froze the entire comp, i tried closing it from task manager but it won't close weirdly enough ~:confused:

On another note Battle of Europe is a lot of fun ~:) its not like the skirmish map game, no base building here, but slowly conquering territory from the enemy, ie if you took a village you receive several bonuses like loot (ie food from a farming village or coal from a mining village, even from dead enemy soldiers guarding an important location, like a lighthouse...etc) and experience, also there are sub missions in every map, like stopping the enemy reinforcements to join up with the main enemy army/garrison, helping a village from robbers... etc its great fun ~:)

[Efrem]

I'll get back into it after my exams.

[lars573]

Given CDV's history with the Cossacks games after a few patches and an x-pack or 2 this game will rule ass.

[Leet Eriksson]

Good news, seems like the crash occurs rarely, so far battle for europe i going really well.. didn't crash yet luckily ~;p

After applying the recent patch the AI became more cunning and actually harder in skirmish, they do not attack the same route any more and preform flanking manuevers very well.

This game kicks ass, i still can't figure out what formation i should use for the pure melee units like the yataghans (egyptians infantry) and home guards (russian infantry), seems like they are good at column formation, line is only good when they stand ground. Block is also effective against cavalry.

[lars573]

It's called square not block, but that's ok. Melee only units like yataghans and home guard are best advanced in column. For the simple reason that a volley is not going to kill as many in column.

[Nelson]

I can't speak for how Cossacks 2 depicts columns as I've never played it. Historically, a column would be more susceptible to fire than just about anything else due to its’ density. Even squares were hollow. Columns were popular for assaults because they were the fastest and easiest way to get a lot of guys to one place. The dense formations probably helped boost morale too. Nevertheless they were very vulnerable to gunfire.

[lars573]

Well in Cossacks (1 and 2) a column isn't like it's historical name sake.

Looks kind of like this.

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In Cossacks 2 you only see a proper column when a unit is marching on roads. The reason it's best to attack with melee only unit in column is that the games ball projectile calculation has no provision for a ball going threw one man and into the man behind him. When a man is hit with a round from a musket he and the round are both stopped dead.

[Efrem]

It says in manual that bullets can kill multiple people..... at least I think I read that.

Are you sure?

[Leet Eriksson]

i think they do, a column of home gaurds received a shot in the yellow region and 2 rows died instantly. then again its less severe than putting them in line. If you put them in line, i think the best thing to do for melee units is to have them stand ground, they stand ground when you leave them alone for a while, there is no command to tell them to do so (maybe for balance reasons), this gives them a significant boost for defence, they could take a volley in the red region without severe losses, but still melee units are not that effective in stand ground besides being sponges for enemy attack, the recent patch has the ranged units go very close to a melee stand ground unit, fire at them then pull back, what i do is have a line of musketeers or other ranged units behind them, shoot at the enemy and pull back to reload behind the melee units.

[econ21]

Well in Cossacks (1 and 2) a column isn't like it's historical name sake.

Looks kind of like this.

^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^
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In Cossacks 2 you only see a proper column when a unit is marching on roads.

Sounds like Cossacks may not be too far from representing historical columns. You've got to distinguish an attack column - which looks like the diagram you've drawn - and a march column (which is a few men abreast for marching down a road). An attack column is rather like a rather short line with many ranks. As a more compact formation it is easier to maintain formation - so quicker to close on the enemy. A march column is useless for any kind of combat, but allows the unit to take advantage of roads to move faster still.

[Efrem]

I love Cossacks 2 more and more. Its really far too deap for most reviewers though.

[lars573]

Sounds like Cossacks may not be too far from representing historical columns. You've got to distinguish an attack column - which looks like the diagram you've drawn - and a march column (which is a few men abreast for marching down a road). An attack column is rather like a rather short line with many ranks. As a more compact formation it is easier to maintain formation - so quicker to close on the enemy. A march column is useless for any kind of combat, but allows the unit to take advantage of roads to move faster still.

And yet everyone with a bit of knowledge of era says that the column is wrong because of it's length and that the marching column (or the column in Imperial Glory) is the proper one. Also cannon shot, solid and grape, can go threw multiple men. I've had it take out rows of men from an attack column.

[econ21]

And yet everyone with a bit of knowledge of era says that the column is wrong because of it's length and that the marching column (or the column in Imperial Glory) is the proper one. Also cannon shot, solid and grape, can go threw multiple men. I've had it take out rows of men from an attack column.

I have a bit of knowledge of Napoleonic warfare, but unfortunately haven't played Cossacks 2 or Imperial Glory. A French Napoleonic battalion column was only about nine men deep. With battalions of around 400 or 600 men, that makes a pretty long formation. Are you saying the length of the Cossacks column is too long or too short relative to that?

[lars573]

It's a solid square. Slightly longer than it is wide.

[Leet Eriksson]

btw if you have them march on roads in colum they go like this:

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Well you get the idea. I think when not on a road a column looks like a square, when on a road it gets a rectangular shape, roughly.

[lars573]

Made a screenie of a some columns in C2 via the demo. It shows 4 companies of French national guard. They are each in column formation, and aranged in a column by me. ~:)

http://img223.echo.cx/img223/9222/c2column6cv.jpg
Also when placed in column and ordered to march somewhere they will do so via the roads you see them on. Then they go into a marching column, it's 4 men abreast by 30 men long.

[econ21]

Um, the columns are definitely not right - too square, they should be wider and less deep. But I could live with it - it looks like a mass of men, ready for business. They seem to be about 11 deep, rather than 9 but with the smaller size of the unit compared to a historical battalion, they are certainly too square.

But very nice graphics - you are tempting me to buy this game. How does the combat feel compared to Total War? Is it tactical - eg you worry about flanks and morale (it sounds like formation is in the game reasonably ok)? Does it have a historical "feel"? I'd download the demo, but even on broadband it's coming up as taking 11 hours and the download cut out after 5 hours. Thanks for any insights - it sounds like the game is well received.

BTW: I've been replaying SSIs Imperialism II - similar period but turn-based. Pretty poor combat, but absolutely brilliant Civ-style empire building and economics.

[lars573]

Um, the columns are definitely not right - too square, they should be wider and less deep. But I could live with it - it looks like a mass of men, ready for business. They seem to be about 11 deep, rather than 9 but with the smaller size of the unit compared to a historical battalion, they are certainly too square.

But very nice graphics - you are tempting me to buy this game. How does the combat feel compared to Total War? Is it tactical - eg you worry about flanks and morale (it sounds like formation is in the game reasonably ok)? Does it have a historical "feel"? I'd download the demo, but even on broadband it's coming up as taking 11 hours and the download cut out after 5 hours. Thanks for any insights - it sounds like the game is well received.

BTW: I've been replaying SSIs Imperialism II - similar period but turn-based. Pretty poor combat, but absolutely brilliant Civ-style empire building and economics.

Well the unit size for line/light/grenedier infantry is 120 men. As for comparing the combat to total war well IMO they are similar. Leaving aside the different time frames Cossacks is more an RTS than total war is that said it's a lot more involoved than say age of empire or empire earth could ever hope to be. The single player of Cossacks has an MTW/risk style map of europe that you conquer, there are only aout 20 provices for all of europe plus Egypt. The morale system is as detailed as TW's your men fight on their morale if it is depleted they will break (formation) and run back to base, wiping out all there experience in the process. Morale drops quicker if your men are attacked from flank/rear. Faster still if it's cavalry doing the attacking, curiasseurs and British heavy dragoons do damage to morale just by charging in wedge formation.The game economy works uniquely and not just that you capture villiages to get the resources you need for combat. To have men in the field (and peasants building/working) you need food in your food pile, if it runs out your people will starve to death, they will litterally drop like flies. Your army needs to have it's pay kept up, you run out of gold and they'll mutiny. To fire there muskets your troops need coal (to make powder) and metal (for shot), run out of either and you men have only their bayonettes to defend themselfs.

There are some elements to the game that are a bit un-historical, grenediers for instance have grenades. Granted it's only every second man who has a grenade and you need to see the whites of the enemies eyes for them to be effective. Also light cavalry and dragoons have blunderbusses/carbines and they are very good with them from horse back and at close range.