View Full Version : First units to be skinned

05-08-2005, 11:42
OK guys its time to make a start. We have few thigs tht we can start skinning on.

The first thing we need to know is how many of you are going to have a go at this. These are the units we can make a start with

- Levy Longbow
- Retinue Longbow 14th century
- Retinue Longbow 15th century

Royal Knights
- English 14th
- English 15th
- French 14th
- French 15th
- Scottish 14th
- Scottish 15th

- armoured house
- horse with heraldic trappings

- MacDonald Highlanders

- Auszug Halberdiers (swiss)
- Auszug Pikemen (swiss)
- Landwehr Halberdiers (swiss)
- Landwehr Pikemen (swiss)
- Landsturn Halberdiers (swiss)
- Landsturn Pikemen (swiss)
- Swiss Swordsmen (swiss)
- Handguns
- Crossbowmen

I will post some picture so you know what type of things we are talking about

05-08-2005, 11:56
Ok below are some prints to give you an example of what the units looked like, I will post some more latter.

Retinue Longbows





14th Century Levy Archer


15th century Royal Knight


05-08-2005, 12:29
If we have the space/time, the skinners could make a load of favour units. So each province has its own herald(sp), standards etc. This will make it look a lot more realistic and colour.

05-08-2005, 16:28
Seems an OK idea my fellow Merseyside dweller.

05-08-2005, 17:41
The only problem with my idea, is that there might be a limit of 200 units.

05-08-2005, 18:52
If we look at making the three sets of Archers and the three sets of 14th century roal knights, we can get into how many spaces we have left later once we have a full list of Factions and units.

Duke Malcolm
05-08-2005, 20:19
Ladies and Gentlemen, something you have all been waiting for (even though it wasn't on the above list of units... I had a few spare minutes during studying...)



MacDonald Highlanders!

Some model changes that I may at some point make : longer swords, give them a Great kilt, give them a tam o'shanter (like the Black Watch wear)

Sauron the Great
05-08-2005, 20:27
Nice ~:) . Good to see that things are moving forward. Are those going to be the new Highland clansmen or a more spefic Highlander?

Duke Malcolm
05-08-2005, 20:44
They will probably be the Highlanders for the Lordship of the Isles. The Scottish Highlanders will probably have a slightly different tartan on the kilts

Sauron the Great
05-08-2005, 20:47
Will they be armed the same? What other units will the Lordship get or will it share Scotlands units mainly.

Duke Malcolm
05-08-2005, 20:50
They will be, for all practical purposes, the same. The Lordship of the Isles would get many the same units as Scotland, but will probably also get gallowglass, I think, and some viking-type units.

King Ragnar
05-08-2005, 20:52
Very Nice King Malcom~:)

Templar Knight
05-08-2005, 22:45
nice one King Malcolm ~:cheers:

05-09-2005, 06:06
One small question King Malcolm

When did they Scots start the wear Kilts ?

05-09-2005, 06:15
Can we take care not to make to many units skins until we have decided on what factions are to be included.

For example

If we are going to have 20 factions ? and we have a limit of 200 units then that only gives us 10 per faction. Hence we might run out of units before we are half way through the mod.

This also brings me onto my next point we really need to agree on the factions so we can start to decide on what units we require.

05-09-2005, 08:04
Kilts weren't used before the XVI or XVII th century I think.

Templar Knight
05-09-2005, 10:22

Now we shall deal with the misconception that the kilt is a form of medieval dress. We can’t blame this on Braveheart, as the notion existed before its release, but the movie certainly did nothing to help matters. It depicts Scottish Highlanders (and Lowlanders) in the late 13th century wearing poor imitations of kilted garments from the 17th century and painting their faces blue with woad in good 2nd century fashion. Is it any wonder people are confused?

Often when one goes to SCA events and Renaissance Faires one will encounter men in very modern kilts with what are sold as “Jacobite” shirts. These people are simply believing what they have been told—that the kilt is a medieval garment—and accepting that at face value. I have even sat around one SCA campfire and been approached by a young man in full Highland Dress—modern Highland Dress. He was wearing a tailored tartan kilt, elastic kilt hose, elastic garters, modern patent leather dress shoes, a white button shirt with a tartan tie, and Balmoral bonnet with his crest badge. He thought because it was Scottish that it was medieval. We cannot blame people for suffering from these misconceptions. It is what they have been taught by the poorly researched “myths” that pass for Scottish history. So let’s see what we actually do know to be fact about early Highland dress.

The earliest entry in McClintock for Scotland is from 1093. He quotes a document called the Magnus Berfaet saga, in which King Magnus ventures to the Western Isles of Scotland and adopts the dress he finds there. “They went about barelegged having short tunics and also upper garments, and so many men called him ‘Barelegged’ or ‘Barefoot.’” Those wishing to prove the early existence of a kilt almost always cite this document, but nowhere in the document is a kilt mentioned. People overly willing to sacrifice fact for their desire to date the kilt to antiquity jump at the fact that these men went barelegged and make the assumption that if they were not wearing trousers then they must have been wearing a kilt. But this assumption is completely invalid as the kilt is mentioned nowhere in this document, and the clothing that is mentioned consists of a tunic and an upper garment which corresponds perfectly with the contemporary dress of the Irish Gaels of the time—the leine and brat.

The next mention of Highland Dress we get from McClintock is from the 16th century. Let me stress that nowhere is there to be found evidence to suggest the wearing of any form of kilt in Scotland in the time period before the 16th century. People may claim various early dates for the wearing of the kilt, but I have yet to see hard evidence for it. Most often what people are claiming to be a kilt is merely a depiction of a leine, tunic, or acton.

The type of kilt that we will begin to encounter in the 16th century is called (in my poor Gaelic) a feilidh-mhor (great wrap), a breacan-feile (tartan wrap) or simply a belted plaid. All refer to the same garment. I prefer the latter for ease of use. A plaid or plaide is a length of heavy woolen fabric worn over the body like a mantle or a shawl. It has nothing to do with the modern American usage of the word plaid, except that they were often of a tartan pattern, which “plaid” is synonymous with in America. A belted plaid is simply a very long plaid that had been gathered into folds and belted around the body. It is often called in modern reenactment circles a “great kilt.” Despite what you saw in Braveheart the belted plaid was not worn in the 13th and 14th centuries. The belted plaid costumes worn in that movie were not even very good representations of the belted plaids. I honestly do not know how the costumers could have claimed to have done any historical research—they simply designed a garment that they thought looked both Scottish and medieval.


Duke Malcolm
05-09-2005, 16:52
I never knew that... ohh well, looks like we'll have to do some modelling later on...

Duke Malcolm
05-09-2005, 20:54
The model limit is 255, and the unit limit is 500, apparently

06-03-2005, 21:21
I have added a few more units to the list that are required. If anybody wants to have a go at these, drop me a line and I can scan some examples to post in this thread