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Yamaga Shimazu
11-19-2000, 18:23
This just to show why the game is actually so unbalanced :

"Apart from anything else, it was usually good for just one shot because there was rarely chance to reload on the battlefield, even with servants to help."

Oh my...why didnt i find it earlier ?! LOL

"The weapon?s true utility came when it was used by massed ranks of ashigaru. In modern terms, great numbers of arquebuses made up for the weakness of the individual weapon by turning it into a weapons system. When firing as a single mass or volley firing, larger units overcame the fact that the arquebus ? like all early firearms ? was hugely inaccurate and slow."

hugely inaccurate and slow ? Oh my...an ashi with honour 4 is not enough yet ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

" It was more by luck than judgement that an arquebusier could hit a man-sized target at 50 metres or so. Beyond 100 metres, anyone struck by a ball from an arquebus was unlucky rather than a victim of deliberate fire."

The range uh ?

" By mass firing against massed targets, these limitations were overcome and the weapon system that resulted changed Japanese warfare."

Of course...and doesnt 175 koku seem too cheap for equipping a large mass of ppl to render the arq effective and at that short range ?
Do u know folks how long it takes to a man or a horse to cover in charge those 50-100 meters ?
In an earlier part, i omitted to post, it says that explosions in the face were highly common http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Thanx...now let's work on it.

And this document goes to all my opponents who cowardly choose to equip their armies with 3, 4 and even 5 high honoured musketeers.

Have fun while you can!
(giggle)

Rob
11-19-2000, 18:51
Of course arquebuses and muskets were cowards weapons. But they were effective. Oda Nobunaga rose to great heights after grasping the tactical power of gunpowder weapons.

The fact is that the game takes liberties with the historical facts in order to make for a better playing experience. If we wanted realistic armies, we would all have armies that consisted of 90% Yari Ashigaru.

I'm sure nobody wants that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

(although I once beat an opponent who had large numbers of monks by using honour 7 & 8 YA http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )

Yamaga Shimazu
11-19-2000, 22:13
quoting Rob:

Rob, Oda used MASSES of arqs coz he could afford them.
I am talking about an army of 1200 man being wiped out by 200 musketeers! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

"The fact is that the game takes liberties with the historical facts in order to make for a better playing experience. If we wanted realistic armies, we would all have armies that consisted of 90% Yari Ashigaru."


I'm sure nobody wants that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

If given the chance to play a realistic game i would make a real army with 90% ashigaru units.
Here come the tactics, the true morale, the numbers, the decoys, the manouvres!

As it is now, we're just trying to put best troops onto the opponents' units with less banners in it.


"(although I once beat an opponent who had large numbers of monks by using honour 7 & 8 YA http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif"

Quite realistic, uh ?
Did u know that generals put samurai units scattered through ashi unit and some of them behind making it clear that if ashi misbehavd or showed cowardice they would butcher them as soon as they routed ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Kraellin
11-20-2000, 01:06
yamaga,

i actually tried that, putting higher honor troups scattered amongst lower. i put some high naginata's 'in' my bow ranks, both as defense and to attempt to keep the bows from running. it didnt work http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif either the bows move off by themselves or the naginatas do. it's one of the few features i DONT like about this game; i set up troops, even set them to hold formation and hold position and they all of a sudden decide to move themselves, specially as the enemy starts coming into sight. i've lost several battles due to having to suddenly re-arrange troops at the last moment cause one or more units decide to go somewhere other than where i've put them.

K.

Rob
11-20-2000, 16:03
If you have a 1200 man army being wiped out by 200 muskets you are doing something wrong http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Muskets are only useful at long range, in close combat they rout/die extremely easily. IMO if the muskets were made less effective, nobody would ever use them.

Yamaga Shimazu
11-20-2000, 19:59
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rob:
[B]If you have a 1200 man army being wiped out by 200 muskets you are doing something wrong http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

No mistakes.
They start shooting from too far off. when i get there, they back off and while i am engaged in hand to hand they shoot me point blank from BEHIND and THROUGH their friends.
This is all.

...no mistakes unfortunately http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif