Korean SPEARMEN

[Jpf]

Just a quick line to say they have another new unit posted on the community site. They are the.........
Korean Spearmen
Korean Spearmen are troops pressed in to service by their Mongol masters. They have little appetite for battle, and are unreliable, but can be useful in fixing or holding enemy formations while the more powerful cavalry do their work.

They sound like a pretty useless bunch to me
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

See it here (http://www.totalwar.com/community/newunits4.htm)


[This message has been edited by Jpf (edited 01-22-2001).]

[BanzaiZAP]

Yeah, it sounds like Ashigaru Mark II. Maybe if you play the Mongols, you don't get any Shogun units, and vice versa. So these spearmen are meant to be the equivalent of peasants. Grunts are grunts, no matter the culture.

-- B)

[The Black Ship]

In the politically charged atmosphere of AOE/AOK the issue of unreliable Korean spearmen and skirmishers would have caused quite a backlash!

Wonder how bribable Koreans mercenaries will be?

[BakaGaijin]

We can't very well have the SP campaign Mongols using Yari, can we? Banzai is right on it, I think. Yari Ashigaru mk. II.

You know what else this means? Four units have been revealed so far on the Community Site. Three of them have been mentioned. That leaves just the Mongol Cav out of the ones we already know about. Now, depending on whether you count the two Korean infantry units as both being the "Korean mercenaries" mentioned in the press release or that one is the "mercenaries" and the other is... something else... then we have either one or two more surprises left. My guess is that next week's unit will be Mongol Cavalry, unless CA is gonna spring some Korean Archers on us. That means that two weeks from now, we'll get something completely unexpected. Exciting, no? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[BakaGaijin]

I just realised that the press releases all said that there were going to be SIX new units. The Community Site mentions FOUR of them. That means we'll have Mongol Cav and another mystery unit. Or... perhaps two kinds of Mongol Cav.

[solypsist]

So unless a lot of these units start doing double duty (Koreans hurling spears and Mongol cav firing arrows and also having YariCav-like combat abilities) there might be some crossover units.

[Nelson]

My guess is two Mongol cavs. A light and a heavy version.

The 2 Koreans seem like OK units so I guess 4 out of 6 ain't bad! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Anssi Hakkinen]

I add my approval. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Yes, the Korean Spearmen (KS?) are a re-release of YA, but at least this means that it's fairly certain we *won't* be getting crossover units. This is very good, as they would be completely ahistorical (well, perhaps not conscripted YA, but...) - much more so than Kensai or BNinjas.

BTW, if the one missing unit is a second Mongol Cav unit or another Korean Auxiliary (archers? I dunno), it means the original press release did mention all the new units after all. It's just that some of the mentions were more than one unit. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"Never, youths, however wretched, / Nor in future, upgrown heroes, / Whether you have large possessions, / Or are poor in your possessions, / In the course of your lifetime, / While the golden moon is shining, / May you woo a golden woman, / Or distress yourselves for silver, /For the gleam of gold is freezing, / Only frost is breathed by silver."
-The Kalevala, Poem XXXVIII, verses 241-250

[Hosakawa Tito]

Seeing that the two Korean conscript units seem to be low morale scum the Mongol cavalry
unit or units are going to be some bad a$$ warriors to balance it out!Stop drooling Magyar! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Tito

[BanzaiZAP]

So we have:
Korean Auxilliary (javalins/shields)
Korean Spearmen (Ashigaru Mk II)
Battlefield Ninja (Much discussion about him, but very stealthy w/ranged attack)
Kensai/Sword Saint (Again, much debate)
Mongol Cavalry (no solid details known)

I think there will be another Mongol Cavalry type, probably an archer, but it could be something completely different. A new General unit, or Battlefield Reporters or something. Battlefield Shinobi? Well, maybe not. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

One thing to note here, since this IS the KS thread: the new icon in the screenshot that people had thought is a naginata remake - couldn't that be the icon for the KS? Naginata icon would still the same, but that funny looking weirdo is a Korean Spearman. Feel better?

-- B)

[Tenchimuyo]

So if the mystery unit is a mongol unit, then that means the mongols will have only four kinds of units to fight with?

[solypsist]

which is my point exactly. people were complaining from day one that STW could use more variety of units (I disagreed) but how much fun can there be, in the long term, in playing just four units as the Khan?

[Nelson]

What should the Japanese get in the 12th century? Horse archers, samurai archers, and maybe some naginata? Were ashigaru common yet? That's only three or four units. So maybe four could work for the Mongols.

I like variety but only if it makes sense.

[solypsist]

Well if the movie download is any indication, there are going to be some anachronisms going on during the 12th century.
I'm specifically talking about muskets. Check out the movies.



[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 01-24-2001).]

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Soly-sama, as has been announced, all kinds of anachronisms can and do occur - in MP, because all the units are useable online if you have MI/WE. However, so far nothing has hinted at teppô or other *clearly* Sengoku-age units being available in the 13th century Mongol campaign. The movies and screenshots clearly seem to be from MP or a Custom Battle - how many campaigns have you seen with all-honor 9 armies with legendary weapons & armor?

Secondly, I really forgot about "the glaive guys", or whatever they are. However, I say yet again that they are not likely to be a Mongol unit, as they have always been seen as part of Japanese armies; of course, this could be a MP anachronism as well. Assuming they are a Japanese unit, it either leaves the Mongols with only 3 units, or they are revamped Naginata. I don't know which alternative is better...

------------------
"Never, youths, however wretched, / Nor in future, upgrown heroes, / Whether you have large possessions, / Or are poor in your possessions, / In the course of your lifetime, / While the golden moon is shining, / May you woo a golden woman, / Or distress yourselves for silver, /For the gleam of gold is freezing, / Only frost is breathed by silver."
-The Kalevala, Poem XXXVIII, verses 241-250

[Tachikaze]

The appearance of samurai changed noticeably from the 13th to 16th Centuries. I wonder if the artwork will differ when playing a 13th Century conflict.

It seems like the time and energy expenditure to do so would not be worth the minor nod to realism. But it may explain some of the unfamiliar unit graphics in the screenshots.

I doubt it's true, but I thought I would mention the possibility.

[Tenchimuyo]

I did some reaserch and find out that the mongol soldiers carried battle axes, simitars, lances and most of all, they had curved bows. There were two version, a light one for shooting on the horse back. Another for shooting a greater distance on the ground. Therefore it can be said the mongols had ground troops like the average archers on foot, not just horse archers. Plus the fact they used lances, so there might be calvary units such as lancers. So, may be they could add some new unit such as archers, horse archers and lance calvary in contrast to the Yari Calvary of Japan.

P.S:
For anyone that does not know what a lance is. It is a long wooden or metal stick with a sharp spearhead on top. Kind of similar to the Yari.

[This message has been edited by Tenchimuyo (edited 01-24-2001).]

[Brown Wolf]

I think the Japanese need a new unit or two in the expansion.

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"Failure is not an option"

[Naughty_Plumber]

The Japanese already have 2 units in the expanison. Personally i think it is going to be some kind of Sicmitar or axed unit for the Mongols. Yet iam not sure skirmishers will be enough fire power for the Mongols.

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HnT

[Anssi Hakkinen]

One doublepost deleted.

And Wolf-san, assuming you meant "a new unit or two" *besides* the ones originally introduced, the Mongol cavalry will be there anyway. So that's one out. The one remaining unit may be either Japanese or Mongol, but I think the Mongols need new stuff more than the Japanese. After all, it would still be four units versus a dozen or something (assuming teppô will not be present).

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"Never, youths, however wretched, / Nor in future, upgrown heroes, / Whether you have large possessions, / Or are poor in your possessions, / In the course of your lifetime, / While the golden moon is shining, / May you woo a golden woman, / Or distress yourselves for silver, /For the gleam of gold is freezing, / Only frost is breathed by silver."
-The Kalevala, Poem XXXVIII, verses 241-250