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Idomeneas
05-18-2005, 21:37
Hi, im watching EB forum more than a year. From the time know-how of nowdays didnt existed and most stuff were wishfull thinkings.

What drew me here was not only the chance to see my favourite pc game getting better but also this collective work of everyday joes worldwide willing to do something that even a great company could-wanted not do.

In that period every little or huge discovery-creation was displayed infront of everybody and we could see step by step wishfull thinking becomming reality, only because a community was determined to work hard. You might think that i exaggerate but trully i think that this forum is a small example of what we can do when we want and work together.

Now to the point. At that time EB's work was open for all to see. Everybody could make a comment or suggestion and thats how fame of EB spreaded and many people were commited to work for it. After sometime when EB had a strong able working core it was decided the progress of work to not be displayed ''live'' but to take the form of newsletter. I understand perfectly why this happened. You wanted to limit endless discussions about this or that unit this or that region etc. But by doing this EB lost a part of its colectivity. People interested about this project became two camps, makers and watchers, sorta like group and fans.

I would suggest and thats only my opinion, that it is time for EB to go open again. You have a better picture now about what is needed to be done. Units cultures regions are basically decided. The really debatable things are solved. So why dont go open? The power of EB is its collectivity imo. Otherwise its just another software company (even if money doesnt move it) with typical screenshot teasers and newsletters. The problem of things to go complicated and nothing to be done, is eradicated thanks to the hard work of the team, why not show everybody what you are up to?

You never know who is watching. Did you expected so many academic people join the effort when you started? i dont think so.
There is a bunch of people with great skills thrilled by your work but unable to fully commit due to schedulle reasons. But sometime a simple advice or little task can be done in a matter of 2 hours.
For example im graphic designer and work in advertisement. I dont have much time to commit but photoshop illustrations and stuff like that are part of my everyday routine. Maybe sometime i can do a little task or even give a tip.
Same stands for people with other skills.

Show us your work, let us comment and suggest and you are not obligated to follow any of that. Sometimes you never know who is gonna give the sollution. No need for secret threads and special announcements-newsletters.
In this forum it used to rain threads now it hardly even move anything. Just people getting in every friday saying OMG congratulations etc and thats it. Im sure this is not what you wanted.

All the above are said in purelly friendly manner and will. I wish to offend nobody and the quality of work till now is superb. Let us watch it happening.
Im looking forward for your thoughts

Idomeneas ~:cheers:
Big_John
05-18-2005, 22:12
you do realize that an open beta is coming soon, right?
Idomeneas
05-18-2005, 22:56
you do realize that an open beta is coming soon, right?

offcourse. Its just that i think in this point where all major decisions are taken there is no need for any kind of secrecy. I think that right now that many stuff are near end you need community comments more than ever.
Sarcasm
05-19-2005, 00:17
There will be plenty room for discussion. Trust me when I say that (reasonable, informed, supported) input will be very welcomed. The Open BETA isn´t just for show, it's there so the community can give it's feedback on EVERYTHING. Be patient, it might be closer than you all expect....it's just that we are perfectionists to the point where we want the BETA to be the final game. ~;)
Steppe Merc
05-19-2005, 13:33
It would be sort of crazy trying to go back to open betas. Also, we would like some sort of suprises. ~;)
jerby
05-19-2005, 14:42
There will be plenty room for discussion. Trust me when I say that (reasonable, informed, supported) input will be very welcomed. The Open BETA isn´t just for show, it's there so the community can give it's feedback on EVERYTHING. Be patient, it might be closer than you all expect....it's just that we are perfectionists to the point where we want the BETA to be the final game. ~;)

i can imagine it is hard to make a non-finished game public. the amount of choices you need to amke is unimaginable..but still I support EB and will like its descisions or live with it.. ~;)
khelvan
05-19-2005, 20:19
EB's choice of procedure does not mean that the community has no input. It means that the community provides input at specific times in a controlled manner. It does not mean that the EB team makes final decisions without hearing from outside the team. The EB team is always willing to listen to those outside the team, but there is a time and place for this input.
Idomeneas
05-19-2005, 21:16
i can imagine it is hard to make a non-finished game public. the amount of choices you need to amke is unimaginable..)

Granted but IMO that policy stands for company products not community mods where everybody may contribute. That contribution may vary from genious programming or just a word.

I agree that EB team has every right to determine the time and amount of community input, but i also think that if there was nt for those early days ''open'' thread so everybody admire the process and feel the need to take part, there would be no team today ~;)

Anyway.. it was just a suggestion..
Reverend Joe
05-19-2005, 21:58
Idomenias, I would really like to agree with you on this point, but the fact is it is sometimes necessary to be secretive about the details of a mod before its first release. This is to prevent plagarism, which is, unfortunately, a serious problem with non-profit projects like Europa Barbarorum. After the mod is released, however, I am sure the team will be much more open about the details of the mod, but you will have to expect a certain degree of secrecy, just for security measures.

After all, there's a lot of immoral jerks out there.
jerby
05-20-2005, 12:44
yeah, I with a certain level of secrecy. In that way EB won't be flooded with "why didnt you put the pegasus in"-posts etc
Bartix
05-20-2005, 13:14
yeah, I with a certain level of secrecy. In that way EB won't be flooded with "why didnt you put the pegasus in"-posts etc
Why did not they? Pegasi common in many are that time.
eadingas
05-20-2005, 13:17
For example, we don't have a baltic or ugro-finnian linguist/historian on the team :) This means we will need an outside help, once we get to describing these lands :)
jerby
05-20-2005, 17:43
omg, someone named himself bartix...
Idomeneas
05-20-2005, 21:34
omg, someone named himself bartix...

he must be from Gaul. Cousin of Asterix maybe....
Idomeneas
05-20-2005, 21:37
yeah, I with a certain level of secrecy. In that way EB won't be flooded with "why didnt you put the pegasus in"-posts etc

so what? ley them ask for hydra too. EB is not obligated to follow their instructions. Instead can catch up some stuff that needs corection without getting in trouble for beta and then another beta and another...
jerby
05-20-2005, 21:50
what? i dont follow. are you saying EB will mess up without the help of the public?
Idomeneas
05-20-2005, 22:46
what? i dont follow. are you saying EB will mess up without the help of the public?

where did i said that? I think you missunderstood me. Im trying to make few suggestions except from the usual ''OMG'' comments. I think is better than just praising every friday ~;)
jerby
05-21-2005, 08:11
yes indeed, i misunderstood. now that i got some sleep i can read it like you meant it.

But acctually everybody who Could help the eb team is trying to become one of the team...and after the beta there will probably be a lot of disccusion here on the board. and I'll bet EB will listen to everybody's comments
Sarcasm
05-21-2005, 19:35
where did i said that? I think you missunderstood me. Im trying to make few suggestions except from the usual ''OMG'' comments. I think is better than just praising every friday

I for one have the same opinion as you do, but it's just that, an opinion. The 2 opinions are valid, each has its merits, none has a flawed logic. However, EB is a democratic mod ( something that we're proud of, I think I can speak for everyone there when I say it ), and as part of it, I will follow it's politics and defend them as well.

What I'm trying to say is, we understand your point, but it was decided some time ago, (for different reasons) to persue this sort of development. The BETA is almost out, and we will all be happy (and thankful) to hear "your few suggestions".....and hopefully, some "OMG comments". ~;)
Simetrical
05-22-2005, 05:20
Idomenias, I would really like to agree with you on this point, but the fact is it is sometimes necessary to be secretive about the details of a mod before its first release. This is to prevent plagarism, which is, unfortunately, a serious problem with non-profit projects like Europa Barbarorum.I think the request was to open up internal EB forum discussions, not release all content as it's made. RTR has a team-only forum where we can discuss stuff without the public getting in the way, but anyone can view it. We don't generally exchange content there, using IRC or e-mail instead—EB would probably find it more workable to post content in a hidden EB-only forum instead due to the size of its team, but the principle is still perfectly workable.

-Simetrical
eadingas
05-22-2005, 09:11
I'm not even sure it's possible, with .org engine, to have a read-only forum...