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hach
12-05-2000, 19:01
are heavy cav being beefed up in the new patch.at the moment they are one of the weakest units in the game and not worth the top whack one must pay for them.

hach

Rob
12-05-2000, 19:55
I don't think so, but they might be.

The warrior monks were said to have been made slightly less powerful in the last patch, but nobody ever announced it officially.

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AkaiRob Hojo
Honour to Clan Akai Ken

12-05-2000, 20:58
Who said that Heavy Cavalry are weak?

They beat damn monks hey !

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12-05-2000, 20:58
Who said that Heavy Cavalry are weak?

They beat monks hey !

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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka.

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Rob
12-05-2000, 21:07
In terms of price/performance, they do seem to be a little weak for a unit described as the 'feared elite' of a Samurai army in the manual.

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AkaiRob Hojo
Honour to Clan Akai Ken

12-06-2000, 03:17
They are the elite of the samurai, because in hand to hand combat they are beaten only by spearmen and they beat even monks !

I use 1 unit always..because of the monks.

They should be 500K though and sometimes are beaten by YC as well.

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Rob
12-06-2000, 04:03
They suffer against all Yari units and take heavy casualties from archers and guns. They are also difficult to control on the battlefield; they get drawn into fighting too easily, allowing them to be easily flanked by Yari units.

I have seen superior honour Heavy Cavalry beaten by Yari Cavalry as well. They definitely should be reduced in price, or be given an even greater charge bonus (or something to make them more effective).

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AkaiRob Hojo
Honour to Clan Akai Ken

leoknite
12-06-2000, 13:23
i have also seen naginata beat the crap outta of em, but since they can wail on a 500 koku monk, they deserve that high koku value.

DoCToR
12-06-2000, 14:32
I agree that HC should be beefed up a little, or their priced reduced.

There are so many Yari unit types compared with others and so HC are just too damn awkward to use http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Yari Cavalry will do much the same job as HC plus be able to massacre CA, deal with HC and be quicker at mowing down routing troops! The YC essentially mean there is very little point in having a HC unit, unless you plan to use it for your leader http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Doc

hach
12-06-2000, 19:20
who do we contact to suggest a change to price or attack strength??

hach

12-06-2000, 20:57
An unofficial patch is under-development and it will be released after 1.13.

For more info contact me, Rob or Yamaga Shimazu. If you want, you can join the team.

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[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 12-06-2000).]

Vanya
12-08-2000, 01:56
Maybe... *maybe*... all HC needs is to have the same effect as monks attacking buddhist enemies when they charge. That is, by charging at a unit, even if it is a yari unit, they will impose a negative morale bonus to the unit being attacked. So, if the HC charges into a YS, the YS should have reduced morale as the result of the charge. If they do it with the monks, I dont see why HC cant get this benefit too... it would give them an extra bang for the buck. Perhaps their attack factor should be increased a tad too.... hmmm...

hach
12-09-2000, 01:34
certainly the faster a unit the greater the charge bonus should be.

if i charge someone with naginata then i won't get much of a bonus'but charging with fast foot units and expecially cavalry i should get an high multiplier.

hach

Yamaga Shimazu
12-09-2000, 16:55
Upon the Cavs in general:

The yari armed troops have a significant advantage over cavalry units, even over the yari armed cavs.

This bonus is ok, spearmen have always been the only weapon to effectively help on the battlefield against cavs. The yari has disadvantages as well (dats why no dachi and monks and nagi are better in melee) worst of all the encumbrance and weight.

Troopers used the spears at first contact and then dropped them and unsheathes swords and other, more useable weapons, in the fray.

To surpass the limits of spear were introduced halberss, bardiche, bec-de-corbin and the like (even a morningstar is better than spears in close fight) but the possible exception of the knife, every weapon is "better" than spears...though the wielder's prowess playes a decisive role in the fighting ;-)

All of this is somewhat simulated in the game for i noticed that at first contact, cav loses many men at once, then starts losing/winning.

Cavs beat monks and every non-spear units if used correctly. And against a non fresh opponent units.
If u check the battlefield calculators, at 0 hon level vs 0 hon level:
vs ya -----> 26 hc standing
vs ys ------> 62 ys standing
vs nd ---> 27 hc standing (note ya/nd)
vs ng ----> hc 68 (and it takes time too!)
vs sa ---> 92 hc
vs yc ----> 83 hc standing
vs wm ----> 12 hc
vs ca ----> 76 hc standing (sword/sword)

Therefore, if used correctly, the hc don't need to be beefed up but to be used correctly. And acording to me they are right as they are. Sun Tzu and Chen'g Pin (hope i spelled this one right) would use them against weak troops and cause mass routing. Now, where's the weak troops on stw battlefields of today ?
None, for these factors will be overthrown by honor, and since hc costs so much it will usually have less honor.


I confirm AGAIN that high honor upsets this completely.
And i will repeat it again, and again, and again and again and again....