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Kraellin
12-11-2000, 21:35
just before i left for vacation i was approached by fearmaky in the multiplayer chat room. he asked me to make him a map and briefly described it to me. i said sure and proceeded to knock one out for him. this was just before i left so i never got the chance to show him my results. upon returning from vacation i then contacted him in the game and subsequently sent him the map via email. we tried it out and it wasnt precisely what he had envisioned. no problem. i simply talked to him a bit more and got what he wanted and will be doing another.

so, here's the deal: if you'd like to see your map ideas come to fruition but arent really a map maker yourself or dont really want to hassle with the rather cumbersome map editor in the demo game or just hate the idea of downloading 97 megs of demo game just to get the map editor, then simply write up your idea and post it here.

bear in mind that we still cant do some things with the current editor. bridges are still a mystery so stay away from river maps for the time being. you cant put more than one castle in a map and have it work correctly. water sometimes causes serious bugs so be stingy in adding that one too for the time being.

if you wish your map to look the way you envision it then you're going to have to communicate that vision to those making the maps. be accurate. describe it to us in detail. also be aware that we cannot edit the starting locations or how big of an area this will be. the game does that automatically. also, orientation is important; if you want your band of trees to run east and west horizontally across the map, then make sure you tell us that.

i'm not sure this is accurate but i tend to think of the map orientation as regards the starting positions. if the defender is on the south side facing north, then obviously the attacker is on the north side facing south. east would then be towards the right re the defender and west on his left. again, i dont know if that's accurate and if someone knows for sure then please feel free to enlighten me.

upon returning from vacation and after showing maky his new map, we were talking in the chat and leokniteRA asked about map editing and also wanted to commission one. i think he'd rather make one himself, but that 97 meg d/l is pretty forbidding. so i had him describe his map to me, reminded him that guns do poorly through trees and ended up with a pretty good idea of what he had in mind.....i think.

probably the best way to do this would be to make up a 'sketch' in a paint program and send it to one of us, but that's not totally necessary either and could even be restrictive if you used a program that wasnt compatible to the ones we use. but most paint programs will allow for viewing of other files if the format is the same type. .bmp, .jpg, .lbm and so on are pretty standard file formats and readily readable from a variety of programs.

i make no guarantees that anyone will even attempt your map idea, but this at least gives us a place to exchange ideas and to post your ideas somewhere and possibly even see them come into being.

also, just to remind folks, TosaInu has a web site with new maps and scenarios posted on it. the site is: www.boy-co.demon.nl (http://www.boy-co.demon.nl)
these are free downloads.

also, both map maker and map commissioner shld bear in mind that it's quite natural for a map to need 'tweaking' after a first attempt. i was quite a bit off from what maky wanted in my first attempt. so ya just show him what ya made, get his comments and do another draft. no biggie. be polite. you're not paying for this and even if you are, be polite anyways http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

K.

Kurando
12-12-2000, 16:06
[b][i]Kraellin[b][i];

That's a great project you've got going there, keep up the good work! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

hach
12-14-2000, 14:11
thanx for the offer

anychance of a map where it's like the attacker is breaking a siege.

in other words they have a castle behind their lines.if they get routed which they probably will as attackers if the units rally they can head to the castle.

this gives the defenders a job trying to get the attackers out the game and reverses roles.

i think it would be a laugh and also a change and also would have to make both sides alter their normal armies as they know some siege warware may be involved later in the battle and not straight from the off.

so basically a not too hilly map with a castle behind the attackers lines.

thanx

p.s can you call it hachimans test if you do it.

Vanya
12-14-2000, 23:43
How does this sound: take Harima, and raise the ground in the center enough so that the height in the center is just a tad higher than the two ridges on either side. Then, cap the new hill (or 'land bridge' with trees. This will leave two little 'bowls' on either side. But dont make this new hill too wide; keep it narrow so it serves mostly as a divider rather than a strategic position.

Lastly, put a few more small pockets of trees on the defender side so that there can be more ambushing possibilities than there are now. This way, the peril wont just be in getting on to the opposite side (attackers).

Perhaps also add some sprinkled trees along the edges of the ridges too (here and there only).

This will make it interesting in that defenders that stay on one side may not really see what their opponent is doing on the other side, especially in fog.

Shiro
12-15-2000, 01:40
I like it Vanya but I'm not offering to be the defender! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
-Shiro

Kraellin
12-15-2000, 22:23
thanks guys,

good suggestions!

one thing to make this a bit easier on conveying what you want. when referring to directions on the map please use north, south, east, and west. the defender is ALWAYS on the south side and the attacker ALWAYS on the north. east is then the right and west is then the left. the editor never allows us to change starting positions so the map is always oriented this way relative to attackers and defenders. on the radar map north is always at the top regardless of whether you're the attacker or defender.

i've also sent in 5 new maps to TosaInu for posting on his site, www.boy-co.demon.nl, (http://www.boy-co.demon.nl,) 2 of these were 'commissioned'. hopefully, these will be posted soon.

have fun,

K.

Vanya
12-15-2000, 23:56
Sorry for me missing the directions. Just in case, though, I will restate it:

The new center hill will be running from north to south, and it will be a little higher, but not by much, that the two ridges it 'connects' to (ie, north ridge and south ridge). The trees I mentioned should be added to the south ridge to improve ambush-ability. Keep the hill narrow so as to not become a major strategic location; top it with trees to make its use more interesting; it should be a nice divider. And, feel free to add a shrine or something to the western depression (I think the current town is on the east side, but not sure).

Oh, and feel free to use 'Vanya' somewhere in the name of the modified Harima map I commissioned... Maybe 'Vanyashima', 'Vanyatsuke', or 'Vanyashi', etc. I don't know if 'Vanyarosag' has a good ring to it though... lol

Can't wait to see it!

sonic_nights
12-16-2000, 10:24
Hi,
I would be grateful if you could send all your new maps (I mean from now on, I'll download the last that TosaInu posted from his site) and I'll post them asap on ShogunZone.
I'm trying (and I think I succeded this far http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) to regroup ALL the maps that are available for both the demo and the full game. Just look in the Mods section of the site if you're looking for one.
This request applies to everyone that want to see their maps posted on the site.
Thanks!


------------------
ShogunZone
http://www.nipogames.com/shogun

sonic_nights
12-16-2000, 10:25
ops, here's the email akuma.san@tin.it
...you can find it on the site anyway.
BYE!

------------------
ShogunZone
http://www.nipogames.com/shogun

Kraellin
12-17-2000, 06:57
ok vanya, thanks. by the time i read your clarification i already had your map made. however, since seeing the clarification i see that i have it slightly diff than you requested. i'll post it anyways. i can always do a 2nd version :)

i havent started on the one with the castle on the attacker's side yet, but i'll get there.

also, tosa posted 13 new maps yesterday, his and mine. he took 8 castle maps and removed the castle and posted them. the other 5 were mine. least i think he posted them all.

i also tried playing with water maps today and still find no matter what i do they come out bugged, so, i wont be doing any water request maps for now. no rivers, lakes, ponds, bridges, etc.

K.

Vanya
12-18-2000, 20:34
Cool!! Thanks, can't wait to see it!

Vanya
12-18-2000, 20:37
btw, what is it called (the Harima variant that is)?

Thanks...

hach
12-18-2000, 20:59
hi Kraellin

can i have the attackers attacking southwards from the north.with the castle behind the attackers due north.

defenders in the south facing north.


thanx hach

hachiman-taro@apexmail.com

Kraellin
12-18-2000, 22:13
vanya,

it's called: vanja'sharima ;) sorry, i think i used a j instead of a y for your name.

hach,

the attackers ALWAYS start in the north, the defenders always in the south. the editor wont allow us to edit starting locations. too bad; i'd have liked to edit some of those at times and to edit how large a starting area was, but oh well.

vanya,

not sure if it's posted on tosa's site yet or not, but it has been sent to him. so, whenever he gets around to it.

K.

hach
12-18-2000, 23:54
hi Kraellin

but will you make the map for me please??

thanx again

hach
12-19-2000, 18:01
how come when i attack or defend a castle province i don't see the castle.

i'm talking normal battles and not seige battles.

this would make my map idea void and also be more realistic.

i would'nt be too bothered about seeing other buildings in the province'but the castle would affect the battle and should be there.

seems silly fighting in a province and knowing there could even be a massive citadel there and not being able to see it never mind use it.

this should be patched or included in any future upgrade add on.

imagine trying to attack a river province'and behind the river sits a castle!!! ouch

hach

Kraellin
12-19-2000, 23:52
hach,

i've no idea why you cant see the castle in a castle province. sounds buggy to me.

and no, i havent forgotten about your map http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif it's still on my list.

i just finished 5 new maps based on the Green map and will be sending them to Tosa today for posting. these are simple revisions of the Green maps, one with a tree line that runs diagonally, one horizontally, one vertically, one that runs both ways and one that is almost all trees. all of these using the base map, Green.

Tosa has also been in contact with Erado about his online campaign and we may be doing something to help Erado in the way of maps. so, even though i havent done your map yet, hach, i havent forgotten it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

K.

hach
12-20-2000, 05:25
thanx mate

no bug.don't worry
i think it's my wording thats confusing.

cheers again

Kraellin
12-21-2000, 00:43
hach,

i spent the morning working on your map. i'm afraid it's not going to be possible. the game does weird things when you stick a castle in the attacker's area. it seems that a castle is designated in the code as the defender's starting position, which is weird, but nonetheless true. in running a few tests i would start the game only to find that the defender was sitting in the attacker's area at the start of the game. i'm also having trouble getting a gate to show up on the castle, which means that the defender's starting troops were locked inside the castle with no way out. it would seem this is another of those mysterious 'bridge oddities' with this editor.

i'll continue working on bridges, water, and castles from time to time but your map is going to have to wait. it would seem i'm going to have to get out the old hex editor and start tearing apart file structure to see what the heck is going on here.

regardless of what i find with the file structure, i'm pretty sure i wont be able to 'untie' the starting area from the castle; that's going to be a code thing, i think, though there may be something in the map structure that i could change to NOT have it signal the code where the castle is, but that's asking for a lot of trouble, and, with the new editors coming out next year i'm prolly not going to go into trying to alter each map with a hex editor.

sorry,

K.

hach
12-21-2000, 18:00
thanx mate

appreciate the effort

hach

hach
12-21-2000, 18:02
what about a castle thats empty and nearer the middle.

perhaps a race to the castle!!!hahaha

cheers again

hach

Kraellin
12-21-2000, 21:46
yes, i had thought about doing one like that, hach, but as i stated in the last message, the code puts the starting position of the defender IN the castle no matter where the castle is. that might be able to be to altered with a hex editor but for now i'm not going to even try that :)

K.