a bit too much spam in the Frontroom ? [Archive]

Blodrast

06-04-2005, 02:58

Well, maybe it's just me, but I'm looking right now at the Frontroom top page, and first of all I notice that out of 30 threads, 28 were last posted into by the same individual.
"So what", you'll say, "he is entitled to his own opinions, and maybe he has lots of opinions about everything ! What's your problem ? ".

Ok. Maybe it's just me.
However, going through several posts on that top page, I notice that much more than half are just spam threads. I have absolutely nothing against threads like "One Word Story", or against spam threads, as long as:

1. I can easily distinguish them from the rest. AND
2. They don't replace the non-spam ones.

I guess my issue is two-sided, dealing with both aspects above:

1. A lot of threads in the Frontroom, even though they may not be starting as spam, they quickly turn into that.

2. As I said, more than half of the threads on the front page are purely spam. Again, I have nothing against this in principle.
But perhaps we can create a special forum for spam, or if it is considered that is too much, then maybe we can rename the Frontroom, because as far as I'm concerned, I'm hard pressed to find something else in there ... And yes, I know that it's meant for "lighter topics", but imho that's not synonymous with spam. There _are_ some non-spam threads in there, too, but unfortunately they get lost between the spam ones...

my two cents, of course. Not trying to criticize BKS or anything, btw.
And if this is only apparent to me, and not bothering anybody else, sorry for taking your time to read this.

Togakure

06-04-2005, 03:32

Generally I don't mind them in the Frontroom, but it would be nice if the spam lovers would try and limit the number of threads, and just post in the ones that are there. When seven of ten threads in the Frontroom become spam threads, then it gets a bit tedious. I enjoy the silly non-spam threads in there often, but lately a lot have just been over-the-top wacko.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade ... the threads are lighted-hearted and fun for many. But I understand where Bloodrast is coming from too. Perhaps a balance can be found without anyone getting to bent out of shape?

EDIT:

P.S. I think doing what PLK has done today should be discouraged. It is blatant spam and "breaks" a function of the board (making old threads appear new by highlighting them, brings them to the top and makes it hard to identify new threads, etc. (Dude ... surely you can't be THAT bored? It's summer time, the weather is nice--get out and have some fun).

Productivity

06-04-2005, 04:57

Yes, while I certainly find some threads in the frontroom interesting, I hardly go there now because of the spam. Maybe create a spam/stupid threads only subforum, and if there is excessive spamming outside of it you get a warn level.

Is it possible to make posts in the frontroom not add to post counts?

IrishMike

06-04-2005, 05:57

I agree 3 or 4 threads is great, but the explosion of the spam causes some concern. Mabey some type of rule about that could help.

Quid

06-04-2005, 08:10

I wholeheartedly argree with the lot in here. Spam has become overexcessive and it makes it a real pain to sift through all the rubbish people can come up with (I feel for the moderators). To most of the posts there is not even a point to it, it's simply to be...well, stupid. There are countless polls that defy any logic and reason.

I am not talking about the 'One Word Story'. That actually makes some sense but many threads started over the last couple of weeks are just beyond reason. Some people really don't seem to have much of a life.

Anyway, I would be most glad if something were done about it.

Quid

Voigtkampf

06-04-2005, 08:50

Gentlemen, I agree with you wholeheartedly...

JAG

06-04-2005, 12:46

King Henry V

06-04-2005, 12:48

Yes, me too. What on earth is Drisos trying to do? With things like pointless polls and "Doy you think Drisos exits?". It's just stupid.

R'as al Ghul

06-04-2005, 13:38

Yes, me too. What on earth is Drisos trying to do? With things like pointless polls and "Doy you think Drisos exits?". It's just stupid.

Actually there are others.
One calls himself spammer wannabe with a postcount of 8.5 per day.
That's twice as much as drisos has.

R'as

CrayolaCrayon

06-04-2005, 14:07

Myabe a special place could be made in the tavern, called 'the spam room' where you can spam to you're hearts content. Then, we tell all the spammers to gothere and spam, so we can quite easily just forget about them and bring the frontroom back to some degree of normalness?

Ser Clegane

06-04-2005, 14:11

Yes, we should definitely cut down the spamming to a less annoying level ... and while we're at it we should probably also weed secondary accounts of banned patrons...

CrayolaCrayon

06-04-2005, 14:17

Eheheh...uhoh...erm....i'm sorry? Heheh....crap!

~runs away~

Divine Wind

06-04-2005, 14:21

I agree with most of the comments. I look at some of the spammers post counts and theyve joined for what say a month, and theyve already made 500-1000 posts already. Thats ridiculous.

For some particular members too, this just does not limit itself to the frontroom (im sure youve noticed this as well), and have led to some good threads in places like the Rome Singleplayer forum being hijacked. Thats what annoys me.

Im not going to say names but its pretty darn obvious who these lot are, so why not just give them a warn level or limit there forum access to say just the frontroom and the entrance hall?

Voigtkampf

06-04-2005, 14:25

I have to agree, I have spammed these boards in the past, but even I never took it this far, it is getting out of hand in the frontroom especially.

Maybe the time between posts should be upped to a minute like it was before? That might help.

GAH! Even though I rarely agree with you, JAG, and you have the highest post count at the Org, I never recall i to have seen you really spamming. Your posts have been numerous, yes, but they always made sense, even when they were comprised out of only one sentence.

This spam issue has gotten out of control. Spammer's good fortune that more tolerant people run this site, I would install a far longer flood control than only a minute. :evil:

Templar Knight

06-04-2005, 14:27

I honestly don't know how anyone can get a post count of 2000 in a couple of months - its not healthy

SwordsMaster

06-04-2005, 14:48

I suggest banning spammers from the subforum the like to spam.

Uesugi Kenshin

06-04-2005, 15:43

Monk

06-04-2005, 15:51

I would have to agree. I really don't understand why some of the patrons there actually WANT to spam the forum and brag about it. Spamming can be fun when at low levels and controlled, but at this level it's pointless.

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-04-2005, 16:06

Sorry folks, I've been on holiday. It appears some patrons have taken advantage of this, which I find rather distasteful. Everything wil be sorted out.

Monk

06-04-2005, 16:13

*a ray of sunlight breaks out from the clouds as BKS makes his entrence. voices raise up from the .org all at once declaring "Here he comes to save the day!"* ~;)

sorry...couldn't resist.

Gregoshi

06-04-2005, 17:08

Sorry folks, I've been on holiday. It appears some patrons have taken advantage of this, which I find rather distasteful. Everything wil be sorted out.
"Distasteful" - excellent word choice when talking about spammers. Welcome back Sunshine! (nods to Monk)

Uesugi Kenshin

06-04-2005, 17:47

Yay! Let the crusade against spam begin!

Welcome back BKS!

Quietus

06-04-2005, 19:06

I agree, the spamming is getting way out of hand. In one day the Frontroom got to almost three pages of new/active threads, this had never happened in all of my relatively limited experience here at the Org. Banning spammers such as Drisos and allowing only a couple of threads like the One Word Story thread should help, but I can see no other way to stop Drisos because all he seems to do is make increasingly pointless polls and threads.First of all, drisos is a good contributor here in the forum. You only need to talk to the guy to reduce the number of polls and he'll listen. ~:)

The same can be said to Umeu and Craterus. (These guys are regular contributors here in the forum as well. In the EH (greeting new members), Coloseum (helping others), Campus Martius, Mead Hall, etc.)

What happened yesterday with PLK was an isolated incident since the guy doesn't regularly post in the frontroom as the others.

Prompted by events during my absence, I'm am now going to pursue this program ruthlessly So stop spamming. Please. BKS, just a suggestion. Maybe tone down the wording. Instead of 'pursue this program ruthlessly', it could be:

"Prompted by increased spamming in the Frontroom, this new spam policy will be enforced accordingly. Please limit spam threads ~:) ".

'Speak softly and carry a big stick' as Teddy Roosevelt and Bugs Bunny would say. ~:) :bow:

King Henry V

06-04-2005, 22:58

His Holiness BKS calls for a crusade against the Infidel Spammer, who have chastised him mightily. All true sons must answer his call.

Uesugi Kenshin

06-04-2005, 23:16

Quietus

06-05-2005, 00:01

Drisos was not contributing in a helpful manner when he made tons of extremely pointless polls that were all pure spam. I stand by banning Drisos if he continues, maybe only for a week at first, but if it continues he should be banned permanently. ~:confused:
Two polls aren't 'tons'?

Pantsless Poll (5-30-05)
Pointless Poll (6-02-05) (He forgot to put the actual poll option on the first and same one). If you wish, you can list all these polls you're talking about including the date it was originally posted.

Secondly, there are rules in place. I don't know exactly how much warnings it will take to ban (and there two already banned for other reasons: Bizzie and Mikeus).

It was Prince Lairadus Konivaich who dug all the old posts yesterday not drisos. ~:) As I've said, the guy, PLK, got excited somehow, but he's not a regular poster in the frontroom.

:charge:

Uesugi Kenshin

06-05-2005, 01:50

PLK is not a guy...

I may have been mistaken, I thought some of the polls were made by Drisos that were not, sorry.

Quietus

06-05-2005, 08:09

PLK is not a guy...

I may have been mistaken, I thought some of the polls were made by Drisos that were not, sorry.Honest mistake, just like Princess Lairadus Konivaich's spam posts....(you are absolutely sure of this right?)

:charge:

Drisos

06-05-2005, 11:17

Yes, me too. What on earth is drisos trying to do? With things like pointless polls and "do you think drisos exists?". It's just stupid.

There is no such thing as and in this case. 'drisos doesn't exist' was an option in a pointless poll.

I agree, the spamming is getting way out of hand. In one day the Frontroom got to almost three pages of new/active threads, this had never happened in all of my relatively limited experience here at the Org. Banning spammers such as Drisos and allowing only a couple of threads like the One Word Story thread should help, but I can see no other way to stop Drisos because all he seems to do is make increasingly pointless polls and threads.

Drisos was not contributing in a helpful manner when he made tons of extremely pointless polls that were all pure spam. I stand by banning Drisos if he continues, maybe only for a week at first, but if it continues he should be banned permanently

'Tons of' is a lie. I made 4 pointless polls in total. While I have been active in Frontroom for months.

*****

I think way too much threads that are meant for fun are seen as 'SPAM' right away. I didn't make those pointless polls to spam, if I wanted to spam I'd post all day in the 'one word story II' thread.

*****

Check this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=48509

I guess you two didn't vote? I got 0 votes. Maybe you guys should think twice before calling me the big spammer

*****

It would also be nice if you two would check the frontroom second page. I don't know if it's still like that when you check, but now the entire list has the same last poster, which is not me.

*****

I feel I must say this again:

Please don't call me a spammer, as I don't want or try to be one.

*****

It also isn't very nice of not to say these things to me. I thought no one really had a problem with those polls. Some guys even thanked me for them. If you have a problem with any of my behaviour, just tell me and I'll listen, talking here about banning me is not the way to solve it.

drisos

Shambles

06-05-2005, 11:19

Calling Out individuals Is never A good idea,
Naming names in public is worse.
Im shure The Mods can do there job and once you tell Them WHERE the problem is not WHO
They can figure it out from them selfs,

Now drisios is a nice guy,
And Im not Thrilled at the way some of you are singeling him out,

And to add insult to injury, Some of you are just Guessing that he is to blame,

then Its "Oh Sorry I thought He had made more polls"
Well you took the time To drag his name through the mud,
So why dont you take the Time to check your facts.

Please Try to Make shure of your facts befor you start Slandering people,
AND even Better,
Just dont go around naming names in public,

"I dont know how ive managed not to erupt here, But I guess thats all I need to say"

ShambleS
:bow:

Drisos

06-05-2005, 11:24

Thanks shambles. I'm glad that there are still people who support me. Seeing this thread was a great disappointment for me. I have always tried to behave nice and helpful here, and never intended any harm in any of my posts.

Also thanks to R'as, Quietus, 2ddragon and Ser clegane. :bow:

Ser Clegane

06-05-2005, 11:39

I second that - good points Shambles.

The issue is being handled and I am sure that what happened in the Frontroom was only a temporary "spamming peak".
Some spamming and good fun threads will always be part of the Frontroom - as much as heated discussions will always be part of the Backroom. Problems start to arise when things get out of hand and normal threads/discussions start to suffer.

As for drisos - if you take a look at the Sword Dojo, you will see that a good chunk of his (actually not that staggeringly high) postcount has nothing to do with spamming :bow:

2ddragon

06-05-2005, 12:29

As for drisos - if you take a look at the Sword Dojo, you will see that a good chunk of his (actually not that staggeringly high) postcount has nothing to do with spamming :bow:

Testify! - you find the time to slander folks now find the time to apologise - oh and in future like ShambleS said straighten your facts out first!

Mikeus Caesar

06-05-2005, 12:49

Kagemusha

06-05-2005, 16:21

I have to agree, Drisos doesn't really spam the frontroom as much as you people up on your little clouds of perfection would like to think. I'm not going to name names, but it is actually someone else who does the evil deed of spam.

I agree with Mikeus.About the spamming,I would really like to know what is considered as spamming?Because i have been very active here in Forums lately and posting a lot,so am i a spammer.The only reason why i have posted so much is simply that i like it in here. :bow:

Laridus Konivaich

06-05-2005, 18:49

I want to agree with the people who said that my spamming was an isolated incident, I think that I was a bit drunk from a party on thursday night (no classes on Friday). I am not trying to excuse what I did. The main reason that I have 8.4 posts per day is because on Friday I made around 180 - 200 posts. Seeing as I joined around 90 days ago, this increases my posts per day by at least two.

Some people in this thread complained about names being named. I do not see any problem with people being name. The mods and admins will never be able to address the problems that are brought up here without discussing specific people. All posters should be able to take responsibility for their posts (yeah, I know that some smart @$$ will tell me to read my first paragraph, but I am not trying to say there that it isn't my fault, only explaining how/why it happened.). If people are innocent, then they should not be afraid to be called to the stand and be examined, because they will be found innocent by the review, and let to go without any trouble.
My spamming would likely have not been noticed if it took place over several days, or weeks. I have probably been unfairly singled out as a spammer, because of the highly visible nature of the offense.

Also, why does it matter what my gender is? One of the beautiful aspects of the internet is that one can, for the most part, remain gender-neutral, and escape the stereotyping and sexism that all people apply to each other in the real world.

If there is anything that I can do to help with the spam problem, I will do my best to do that.

You may now all bow to the floor and thank me for gracing your thread with my precense. :winkg:*floats slowing into the ether*

Regards,

Prince Laridus Konivaich

Togakure

06-05-2005, 20:42

Shambles is right, and brings up once again a point that I've tried to make several times in the past: if you have an issue with something, direct your criticism at the issue of what has been said, not who said it!

I have a problem with "Pointless Polls." GOOD
I have a problem with Drisos and his "Pointless Polls" NOT SO GOOD
Drisos is a bloody 'tard with all his "Pointless Polls" BAD

The mods are quite keen and can easily determine if discipline is in order for the person responsible for creating an issue. When it comes to "who," they are the ones to speak. Unlike a lot of us, they tend to be more aware of a member's overall contributions to the board.

Yes Drisos has posted some pretty wacky posts--but many patrons have enjoyed them. He makes quality contributions to the Sword Dojo regularly, and goes out of his way to welcome new members and encourage their participation constantly (which is more than many of us can say we do ...). When judging someone's "quality of membership," it really is important to look at the big, overall picture. The mods are, of course, in the best position to do this.

***

Nice to see self control and strength of character behind all that happy, enthusiastic friendliness, Drisos. You stood up for yourself without getting out of hand. Well done. Also nice to see other patrons standing up for fairness, etc., in this thread.

Blodrast

06-05-2005, 21:33

First of all, I named no names, and that was intentional.
Secondly, the point of my post was not to single out individuals and yell "Stone 'em to death !", but instead:
- to point out that it is an issue for me
- to see if other people share my feelings, or I am just wacky and imagining things, or I am oversensitive
- if other people feel the same way, we can do something about it.

I've also suggested some of the things I thought might be useful: isolating spam threads, creating a subforum, etc.

The solution is definitely not banning people, and I'd like to point out that I've never even hinted at this. Please re-read my original post. I'm sorry it has gotten that far. There is no need for such immediate drastic measures at all.

Another reason I made this post is because I'm sure some of the posters were not even aware others may qualify their posts as spam, and simply raising the issue may solve the problem. Everyone is entitled to the benefit of the doubt, after all.

I'm pretty sure that now that BKS is back things will go back to normal and we'll get back to living like a big happy family.

And, Tosa, I believe this thread has served its purpose, and you may close it at your discretion. Thank you.

Uesugi Kenshin

06-06-2005, 02:38

I would like to apologize to Drisos, I was wrong to single you out as you were/are not the worst spammer, but that does not mean I support your 4 pointless polls. Sorry about exaggerating the numbers, I was boggled by the number of polls in the frontroom and made a mistake.

Also I do not spam and have only visited and posted in spam threads a few times, the God/Burrito thread but not its offshoot(s) to my knowledge, the one word story a few times, the what music thread a few times and possibly a few I have not remembered. The reason I have many posts is because I post in almost every subforum and make 8-11 posts a day. I attempt to make every post relevant and try to have each have some meaning. My post count comes from at least 95% (possibly more) non-spam posts. Another reason why I have more psots is I joined the first of November and Drisos joined the 29th, not the only reason, but still an important one.

One reason I may have been voerly harsh is it has been hot over here and I am sorry for allowing that to affect my temperment, I will ensure to check my reasons more thoroughly if I ever name names again, but I will avoid to in the future.

Again sorry Drisos, it was not you for the most pat and however absurd your polls were they were few in number and because of that, in my now rectified opinion, not a problem. :bow:

EDIT: I added to this post...

Mongoose

06-06-2005, 03:18

ichi

06-06-2005, 06:33

I've been away for a few days and missed this, but since I consider myself a Frontroom patron I'll add a little

First remember that not everybody agrees on the definition of spam. We have people from many different coutnries and cultures, of various ages and educational/social backgrounds.

Second, the Frontroom is supposed to be a fun place.

Third, postcount shouldn't matter. Join Date may be a matter of pride, but it shouldn't matter much either.

TBH I have been thinking along the same lines as Blodrast . There are a lot of spam threads, but, to me the bigger problem is when spam replies take a decent thread off-topic (the dreaded SpamJacking).

I do not like the idea of a separate Spam Room.

Just ask yourself, is this post worth making? Is it funny, informative, or does it provide good eedback to the other members? If not, maybe it doesnt need to be made.

ichi :bow:

ps very nice to see this handled in a civilized manner, the Org is home to many good people

Drisos

06-06-2005, 10:13

Apologies accepted, Uesugi Kenshin. I was quite mad at you after seeing your first posts and said things I don't really mean. I appeciate your work in the SJ:TW mod and understand why you have higher postcount then me.(and I don't mind yours is higher, because postcount isn't important ~:)) I'm also glad it didn't end in a fight.

King Henry V, please apologize too. I think you made some mistakes, and you thought I was the one behind all frontroom spam threads. If you consider having fun about pointless polls as spam, OK. But don't exxagorate things.

The defenition of SPAM in my eyes: A post with no other purpose then to increase post count.

Do you people agree with that? I'd like to know, and it would help preventing spam if everyone knew exactly what it is.

Kagemuscha, no! You are certainly no spammer, you're only being enthusiast, m8! Keep it up! :bow:

drisos

doc_bean

06-06-2005, 22:56

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-06-2005, 23:13

drisos I agree with your definition of spam. I'm even reluctant to call some threads like the Burrito/God thread, the what are you listening to thread, the beat the person above you thread etc. spam, they're just people having some fun.

You also had the Pantless poll didn't you, I thought that one was pretty funny ~:cheers:

I agree with you, these aren't spam, and I encourage threads like this-they're good fun, and post-count enhancing at the same time. It's threads and polls that are complete nonsense I object to. I mean, I'm very much a poacher-turned-gamekeeper-I had the most posts in the original one word story-and so I like to think I know where the boundaries are. I try to be fair, and if anyone thinks that isn't the case, please tell me about it.

Drisos

06-07-2005, 12:20

@ Uesugi Kenshi: I know you are not a spammer, and I have indeed seen you at a lot of subforums.

I am active at a lot of too, so I have don't have much spam posts either. ~;)

EDIT: Thanks doc_bean! I am glad to hear of more people they did enjoy at least some of my threads.

~D don't panic, you do have a heart. ~;)

Arrowhead

06-07-2005, 19:14

I've always tried a little to keep my post count down, as the frontroom is my online haven. A seperate spamming forum may just be the answer.

Ser Clegane

06-07-2005, 19:20

A seperate spamming forum may just be the answer.

What would be the purpose of such a forum, i.e. what would be the motivation for anybody to spam in a dedicated spamming forum?

Arrowhead

06-07-2005, 19:26

Ser Clegane

06-07-2005, 19:44

Why wouldn't there be motivation for them to spam in their forum?

Well it would give them a chance to all spam together because for dedicated spammers they like to brag about it. So they can brag by spamming.

And with a forum all to themselves they will not need to regularly clutter up the .Org's serious threads.

Well, there are dedicated spam threads in the Frontroom - nevertheless spammers still seem to feel the urge not only to start additional spam threads but also to spam threads that were started for another purpose.

It seems to me that the hallmark of a "real" spammer is not to limit spamming to the places were it would be acceptable.

Arrowhead

06-07-2005, 19:52

Well, there are dedicated spam threads in the Frontroom - nevertheless spammers still seem to feel the urge not only to start additional spam threads but also to spam threads that were started for another purpose.

Exactly, so if we gave them their own forum it would be more-or-less fine.

It seems to me that the hallmark of a "real" spammer is not to limit spamming to the places were it would be acceptable.
Exactly right, no arguments from me there...

Drisos

06-07-2005, 19:58

I don't know how the .org should deal with spammers. . . :dizzy2:

I do know that after some thinking I think it is best not to create a 'spam' subforum. Would that be an intresting forum? I don't think so. People would create as much very short and pointless posts as they can, what purpose whould that have?

I think people who keep invading serious threads with spam should be (temporarily) banned, but only from the forum where they did the spamming.

Though I cannot name any of these . . . and I wouldn't if I could.

I hope there will be a good solution soon. ~:)

Arrowhead

06-07-2005, 20:06

I think i'm alone on this one, so I shall sit and watch the forums fill up with spam...

I think that once you ban spammers (even temporally) It will be like picking fleas off a dog's back.Once you get rid of them, more will come to take their place.

Craterus

06-07-2005, 20:08

Arrowhead

06-07-2005, 20:12

Weird... All this happened on my break from the .org !

I came on briefly once or twice but I only visited the RTW Guides (I needed a bit of help with my campaign), but the "outbreak" happened while I was away.

Just thought that I'd point that out to those that think I'm a spammer.

Glad to see it's coming under control now though.

Same here, but i have been brooding over this for a long time. When I got back from a long holiday I saw this had happened and jumped at the chance.

Togakure

06-07-2005, 20:51

Well, I'm not necessarily advocating a spam forum, but here's the reasoning I went through when thinking about the idea:

Some people like to spam, but it annoys many others. A solution that satifies both parties is to redirect spam to an area where those who enjoy it can enjoy it, while others who don't can easily avoid it. The creation of a spam forum does this. It solves the problem without "depriving" anyone of a form enjoyment (I realize there are already some threads where spamming is allowed; but the problem still arose, so ...).

A spam forum is like an aikido redirection of energy: it restores harmony without "hurting" anyone. The only costs (aside from bandwith and database space) are that it would need to be set up, and would require a moderator to assure that policy is still enforced. The benefits are, spammers have a place to do what they like to do without irritating those who don't like spam. It also provides a place to move spam threads from other forums--an action that will likely be perceived as less "authoritarian" than closing or deleting threads and reprimanding.

Monk

06-07-2005, 21:02

I do not see any need in a spam forum. As Ser Clegane pointed out, even if we did do such a thing, people would spam outside of the dedicated forum just to get attention. The full example of which has already been shown. There are dedicated spam threads in the frontroom and some people still felt the need to spam out of them. Therefore I fail to see how a new forum could make a single difference. Aside from waste bandwhith and dataspace. BKS has the problem under control and deserves to be commended for doing so; there's not a problem in the frontroom anymore.

Therefore, seeing as the problem is solved, i believe we should move on. Will there be spammers on the .org? Sure, all forums have their share. But the .org also has a dedicated staff to handle such things from getting out of hand. Only when one is absent does it get a little messy, and as you can see; it's all been brought back into line.

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-07-2005, 21:23

Perhaps making post counts invisible would solve the problem.

doc_bean

06-07-2005, 22:08

I don't think we should have a spam forum. While the isolationist theory is nice, it doesn't work, when I was younger (heh) I used to frequent some 'pointless' newsgroups, after a while everyone just got tired of the useless spamming and flaming of eachother and other newsgroup were invaded (actual invasions and wars were fought, ah, the good old days of usenet...).

Point being: a spam forum only attracts spammers and encourages spamming. And a group of spammers is a VERY unstable entity that i would rather not keep around the Org.

Mongoose

06-07-2005, 22:32

GAH! clayton is at it again!

John86

06-07-2005, 23:54

GAH! clayton is at it again!

Clayton has apparently just sent out a few "death threats." At least thats what Beserker says.

Kaiser of Arabia

06-08-2005, 00:25

I PMed BKS about that, hopefully this will all be resolved.
We all know there is somthing wrong when Kaiser/Capo, the most contraversal member of the forum (except for maybe DA) says that people are going over the top ~:)

Uesugi Kenshin

06-08-2005, 03:34

Thanks for being understanding Drisos. I would like to clear one thing up, I don't actually do any active work on the SJ mod, I tried to beta-test when it came out, but it didn't really work out at the time. I have learned some since and should be able to help when a new beta comes out but other than that I just comment in the sub-forum.

And the gender thing came up because I believe I saw a post to that effect somewhere, where PLK was also posting. I may be wrong though as the brain loves to mess with memories.

Gregoshi

06-08-2005, 04:23

GAH! clayton is at it again!

Use the Ignore function if he bothers you.

Clayton has apparently just sent out a few "death threats." At least thats what Beserker says.

That is heresay at the moment. How do we prove this claim in a media where messages can be edited?

Do you all really want to help? If so, then first, please stop playing "armchair" moderator. "I'd ban him." "I'd close this thread." Comments like this are public grandstanding and posturing for an audience. And all it accomplishes is to make matters worse. At first we were only dealing with a spam issue. Now we are dealing with spam and an alleged death threat from a 14 year old. And BTW, age is not the issue - I know some 14-15 years olds here that show more maturity than some of the middle-aged adults. Anyway, we have the moderator job, please let us do it. If you want to help, then publically ignore clayton and privately contact the forum moderator with your issues regarding a thread or post. Let the moderator do their job. Everyone keeps telling us we are fair and doing a good job, so why won't you let us deal with clayton as we see fit and without interference?

The second thing you can do to help the situation is to ignore clayton.

The third thing you can do is to stop trying to "help" clayton, because most of the "help" I've seen are condesending remarks or backhanded insults (not to mention they are violations of forum rules) Which of these "help" sentence sounds more sincere?
1) "clayton, I want to help you stop making a fool of yourself."
2) "clayton, I want to help you get along better with the other patrons."

The fourth thing you can do is stop talking in thread about clayton with other patrons. The comments made are often far from complimentary and he can read them (not to mention they are violations of forum rules). It is nothing more than an indirect way to humiliate or insult him ("Hey, I wasn't talking to him")

And the last thing you can do to help is ignore clayton. That is, of course, only if he bothers you.

Quid

06-08-2005, 05:38

Perhaps making post counts invisible would solve the problem.

Your sheer brilliance shows once again, oh King of the FR. Just something I was going to suggest. I would have been more drastic and would have said to get rid of postcount altogether. To hide it might just do it, actually.

Quid

Laridus Konivaich

06-08-2005, 16:32

"The less you know about me, the more you will be forced to conclude from your own observations, rathering than assuming based on a stereotype," ~ PLK

I suppose that you could try to make a spam count to show up in a user's profile/posts in addition to postcount. But how would it work? You would need an option to mark something as a spam thread, and anything in it (or anything under a certain length?) is added to the poster's spam count. Otherwise it would probably require a mod to click a "this post is spam" button.

The largest potential issues: people who post constructive posts in spam threads may be penalized; it would be another thing to manage; requires programming; and gives spammers two counts to watch. BUT: you could then use certain spam counts as a basis for warnings, like: if you get 200 spam posts within 30 days, you get warned. Or something similar.

Hiding post-counts from the user blurb in posts is probably the best, because it may discourage people from spamming, since others will not see their postcount. Of course, some people may just enjoy spamming for the sake of spamming, and not displaying post-counts would have no effect on them.

@quid: the problem with removing postcount altogether is that some other things, including access to different avatars, are based on how many posts you have made, and removing that count would mean reworking those other things too.

The Stranger

06-08-2005, 20:30

(a semi-spammer is sticking out his head, and screams) IT"S PLK's FAULT ~D

no to be serious. i really don't get the point here, people calling clayton a spammer. it's getting very annoying. CB says he didn't send the death threat, even if he did, what you guys are doing is just as bad. you're bullying him with a group of 20 members. i always thought the .org was a place to have fun. a kinda home, fun conversations and soft competition. (take a look at me and arrowhead. we had a competition, but it never got outa hand. we always kept it fun, atleast i think it's like that, i hope arrowhead does too). but this is going towards a war. you're all complaining but i think you're also enjoying it, making fun out of sumone.

Mongoose

06-08-2005, 21:54

I think complaining about a threat is not as bad as sending one ~;) .

One issue with clayton is that he doesn't use much punctuation, which makes his post's harder to read. thus, people have less patience with him.

Just my two cents, it's up to the mods in the end ~:cheers:

The Stranger

06-09-2005, 15:41

Arrowhead

06-09-2005, 17:08

(a semi-spammer is sticking out his head, and screams) IT"S PLK's FAULT ~D

no to be serious. i really don't get the point here, people calling clayton a spammer. it's getting very annoying. CB says he didn't send the death threat, even if he did, what you guys are doing is just as bad. you're bullying him with a group of 20 members. i always thought the .org was a place to have fun. a kinda home, fun conversations and soft competition. (take a look at me and arrowhead. we had a competition, but it never got outa hand. we always kept it fun, atleast i think it's like that, i hope arrowhead does too)[Yup!]. but this is going towards a war. you're all complaining but i think you're also enjoying it, making fun out of sumone.

Most serious thing i've ever heard from you Emperor. I agree with you about the fact that everyone is ganging up on clayton. The fact that his is a spammer, however, my mind may be inclined toward the thought that he is.

Mongoose

06-09-2005, 17:26

as said before, he said he didn't do it. and also i didn't said complaining was wrong, i said enjoying bullying him is wrong. just ignore him, but most people don't cuz they like arguing (sp?) with him

Alright. I think the reason that people bully him is that it's just so easy (and he does sometimes kind of ask for it). He's a sitting duck for a big cat
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm
H

As he is a http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/rottweilerpuppy.htm

As for me...http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/jekylhyde.htm

~:cheers:

The Stranger

06-09-2005, 20:21

even if he is one, he's bad in it. 200-300 posts in 3 months or more, i do that in 2 weeks. but don't mind that.

as for Mongoose, yes sumtimes he's asking for it. but if i would ask you to shoot me would you do it. i don't think so. just ignore him, and i know good advice doesn't help most of the time. but he deservse a chance don't you think

Monk

06-09-2005, 20:29

Guys It's under control.

The mods are taking care of this issue (i believe it's already been handled). so there's no need to keep discussing who did what and when or why.

Mongoose

06-09-2005, 20:39

My post was just a joke ~;) Sorry if it sparks another CB debate.

This is my last post on the matter :lipsrsealed2:

Drisos

06-13-2005, 11:36

EDITED this post, I was wrong.

Productivity

06-13-2005, 11:52

That logic is stupid. Would someone who registered in early 2003, then never posts until today when they made 600 posts, all of nonsensical rubish not be a spammer? He has less than 1 post per day. How can he be a spammer?

PPD is a stupid system for guaging spam.

The Stranger

06-13-2005, 16:06

but he isnt a spammer cuz he doenst post his post with the intention to increase his postcount. he posts them with the intention to get answers to his questions. is a guy who asks much a spammer, i don't think so

Mongoose

06-13-2005, 16:15

I won't discuss about that, because I don't know all the facts.

@Mongoose: Would you mind taking a look at your Public Profile and Clayton's.

Check the posts per day count in both.

Mongoose = 7.31 per day
clayton = 3.03

More then two times as much you have. Then I think you cannot say clayton is a spammer. ~:doh:

Sorry...couldn't stop from replying...

poster a posted once in one day..."OMFGZ!!!! PLS 1 PST CNT!!!111!111"

Poster b posted three times in one day..."Use archers to counter horse archers"
"I would recommend that you try pontus"
"Only listen to the senate when you have to"

Who is the spamer?

EDIT: I said i would stop posting...but he was calling me a spamer...

"That logic is stupid. Would someone who registered in early 2003, then never posts until today when they made 600 posts, all of nonsensical rubish not be a spammer? He has less than 1 post per day. How can he be a spammer?

PPD is a stupid system for guaging spam.'

Thanks :bow: . Should have read your post before i replyed.

Drisos

06-14-2005, 12:22

That logic is stupid. PPD is a stupid system for guaging spam.

Yes it is, but ...

Would someone who registered in early 2003, then never posts until today when they made 600 posts

That example isn't very good.

- How can someone post 600 times in one day?
- Can you imagine someone posting 0 times in 1,5 year?
- Why would he even register when he doesn't post in 1,5 year?
- In case he was inactive, can he remember his password for 1,5 year?

You see? I think that example isn't possible.

***

if PPD is high, it doesn't say you're a spammer
if PPD is low, it does say you're not a spammer, because spammer post (low-quality posts) all day and do have high PPD.

Plus, I think clayton is not a spammer, but he's just enthousiast and doesn't know that much to say mostly. I think about all of us have posted some very short posts, and I think "Use archers to counter horse archers" is a short, but a helpful post.

***

@Mongoose:

Sorry if I insulted you, but I didn't intend to.

Then I think you cannot say clayton is a spammer.

I did not call you a spammer, did I? I only wanted to convince you of clayton not being a spammer.

More then two times as much you have.

Sorry for that, that was just me being inreasonable because I was quite frustrated about people calling clayton a spammer.

The Stranger

06-14-2005, 14:21

nobody read my post!!!!!!!!! i'm being ignored!!!!! the conspiricy is near, noooooooooh,

NOW THAT"S SPAM AND THAT"S WHY YOU CAN CALL ME A SPAMMER YIHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Stranger

06-14-2005, 14:23

damn do you got sum sort of spamdeleter cuz that (above post) post didn't counted on my postcount. wat ta fak.

The Stranger

06-14-2005, 14:24

nor did that one, prolly this one too

Mongoose

06-14-2005, 14:52

Yes it is, but ...

That example isn't very good.

- How can someone post 600 times in one day?
- Can you imagine someone posting 0 times in 1,5 year?
- Why would he even register when he doesn't post in 1,5 year?
- In case he was inactive, can he remember his password for 1,5 year?

You see? I think that example isn't possible.

***

if PPD is high, it doesn't say you're a spammer
if PPD is low, it does say you're not a spammer, because spammer post (low-quality posts) all day and do have high PPD.

Plus, I think clayton is not a spammer, but he's just enthousiast and doesn't know that much to say mostly. I think about all of us have posted some very short posts, and I think "Use archers to counter horse archers" is a short, but a helpful post.

***

@Mongoose:

Sorry if I insulted you, but I didn't intend to.

I did not call you a spammer, did I? I only wanted to convince you of clayton not being a spammer.

Sorry for that, that was just me being inreasonable because I was quite frustrated about people calling clayton a spammer.

Ok :bow:

I guess it depends on what you define as "spam", I would define it as any amount of useless posts that do not contribute anything.

Um...strange, the guild rules define it as...

"Posts containing "spam", such as advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations. Recommending a game you like is not wrong, as long as you are not trying to sell it. User accounts created exclusively for the purpose of posting inconsequential advertisements will be unceremoniously banned."

I guess "spam" could be defined as many things :thinking2: ...

zelda12

06-14-2005, 15:33

Spam, as all things, is relative to context situation and surroundings.

Spam in itself can be harmless if executed in good humour and with the intention to entertain and amuse, a good example would be the "Help me I got more money that what you do (http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm4.showMessageRange?topicID=759.topic&start=1&stop=20)." Thread over at the .com. It started out as a rant, but through Spamming turned into a funny and worthwhile thread. But it is still technically spam.

Mongoose

06-14-2005, 16:18

No moderator would be cold hearted enough to close THAT thread ~:cheers:

Drisos

06-15-2005, 08:09

I guess "spam" could be defined as many things

That is a sure thing. :yes:

I think much 'fun' posts and threads are seen as 'spam' posts and threads right away.

I think clayton had the same. He posted the 'rome-poll' just for fun. But then people cal him a spammer for that and BKS has to close the thread again. :dizzy2:

Mongoose

06-15-2005, 19:12

That thread was not spam, IMHO.

Big King Sanctaphrax

06-15-2005, 19:30

The Rome poll? No, originally it wasn't. Turned into it, though.

Productivity

06-16-2005, 02:16

That example isn't very good.

Let's see...

- How can someone post 600 times in one day?

Flood protection takes 30seconds? So you can post once every 30 seconds. That's five hours to do 300 posts. I can do it. I don't see what is so impossible.

- Can you imagine someone posting 0 times in 1,5 year?

Yes, yes I can. It's not an uncommon phenomenon on forums for people to register, and then not post, or even look at the forum for years before coming back. It doesn't have to be exactly 0 posts, it could be any low number.

- Why would he even register when he doesn't post in 1,5 year?

Because at the time he was interested, and then stopped being interested. Who are you to say that people have to post after registering? What if someone registers, then their marriage soon breaks up? How about losing their job and the internet? I could come up with many plausible situations.

- In case he was inactive, can he remember his password for 1,5 year?

I fail to see how people can forget passwords at all. I can still remember passwords from ten years ago. Regardless, there is a reset password function on the board for this purpose.

You see? I think that example isn't possible.

You may think the example isn't possible. I think while unlikely to happen, it is at least somewhat plausible.

***

if PPD is low, it does say you're not a spammer, because spammer post (low-quality posts) all day and do have high PPD.

Sorry, I disagree. I've seen forums where spammers (ie. have replied to every post on teh first five pages of the forum) have PPD of 0.5. Same situation as described above.

Drisos

06-16-2005, 09:09

Turned into it, though.

That's what I mean. Clayton posts a fun thread, other spam in it and you close it. I hate that situation, those spammers destroy claytons thread! :furious3:

Drisos

06-16-2005, 09:20

Flood protection takes 30seconds? So you can post once every 30 seconds.

It will take more then 30 sec, because then you have to type the post. I think it would be 35 sec. ( with a very fast computer, maybe)

That's five hours to do 300 posts. I can do it. I don't see what is so impossible.[.QUOTE]

That's more then ten hours to do 600 posts. Can you be online( and posting permanently, with no single break) for more then 10 hours? That person would be mentally ill!

[QUOTE]Yes, yes I can. It's not an uncommon phenomenon on forums for people to register, and then not post, or even look at the forum for years before coming back. It doesn't have to be exactly 0 posts, it could be any low number.

Yes it can. But it happens very rarely, and it happens about never that someone posts 600 times a day, so count those two with eachtoher, and the chance to this happening would be so small it prolly will never happen at the .org. (around 11.000 members, of which a huge load not active anymore)

Sorry, I disagree. I've seen forums where spammers (ie. have replied to every post on the first five pages of the forum) have PPD of 0.5. Same situation as described above.

Well, don't be sorry for your opinion. ~:) :dizzy2:

As this is not an opinion, but real evidence, this convinced me a bit more of the fact that it can happen. But I still think it's highly unlikely to happen.

This discussion is about PPD now, lol. It started with Clayton Ballentine. :dizzy2: