Your views on vi mp.

[Sid_Quibley]

As vi lobby numbers seem to be at an all time low I would like to hear your opinions as to why this is and whether we can get a substantial turnout at least 1 night a week/fortnight.

[CBR]

Have thought about it recently. At least some Samurai Wars ~:)


CBR

[Jochi Khan]

Hi Sid

I have dropped into VI lobby on a number of occasions and noticed how 'empty' it is now.
Max 43 people online and only two people that I knew from pre-RTW days.

To be honest, I don't think you will get players back to MTW/VI, even for Samurai Wars CBR.

Seems very strange that the strong community that we had, should, after their disappointment with the release of RTW and the v1.2 patch, totally leave.
If RTW was so bad for them, why did they not return to playing MTW/VI?

Edit: Correction:-A number of clans from MTW/VI are still playing RTW

Even with it's faults, MTW/VI has given them so much pleasure. Many clans actively playing each other on a regular basis (CWC and CWB spring to mind) as well as the fun games played at random.

Jochi

[Shambles]

Im not suprised people play RTW in mp,
after all most of the major bugs that made me stop playing would not affect MP
Like the moronic ai or the load/save bug,
So as i said it does not come as a suprise that rome will have a MP following,
After all,
It really has Great potential.
And with decent players and modding these can possibly be achived.
In multi player

However I Like MTW VI for its campaign mode,
And play It for campaign only,
I enjoy the managment of taxes and things of that nature and do not let the computer do these things for me,
And although the AI can be a little dence at times , and just stands in 1 place whilst I throw Huge bolders at them, The battles v's the AI are more than bareable,

But for multi player I Must always go to My beloved Shogun,
I cannot Leave my shogun to wither and die.
SO i am humbly at its service as some of you may have relized.
And any other total war game can go whistle if it thinks i will leave the shogun comunity for a new and improoved modde,
So there you have it,

But thats me

ShambleS
:bow:

[Elrich of Gaul]

Vi... or MTW for some, was but a stepping stone in an ongoing journey in the TW community. I too started off with Shogun, and continue to have both strong memories as well as continued friends from that era.

People generally do not rub well with change. It's human nature. If it isnt broke, why fix it.? well, with the movement forward to Warlord Edition... Medieval.. Vikings.. and now Rome, they are but steps in our journey. Most have complaints when new games come out... some legit, some simply because it's "not like the old game".. well, the old game is gone... the new one is here... and this one also will be put aside when the new one arrives etc..etc..

Things change, we have two options.... to embrace them, or live in the past. There is nothing wrong with either option, just that one will eventually die.

[Sid_Quibley]

First off its a little dissappointing that 75 ppl have viewed this thread but only 6 have bothered to vote,so if you do read this thread plz just click a button to register an opinion.


Jochi: "Max 43 people online "

And I assume this deters you from logging on on an ad hoc basis.Im pretty sure this is the case for other ppl and the essence of this thread is to guage how many want to be active in vi and maybe find a regular night that suits most.

Shambles: "But for multi player I Must always go to My beloved Shogun"

Ive got your server software and logged on once,maybe you can post popular times in the soggy forum and Ill take a look.

Elrich: "the old game is gone"

I recognise that a lot of ppl were looking to move on as rome came nearer and eventually arrived,thats fine(I play rome a little myself),but I still see vi as a viable and fun game.

[ichi]

That's odd, I thought we were having a bit of revival this last week (I think I saw Elrich in the lobby, and a few others)

Of course, you gotta remember that out of 6 billion potential players the most I ever saw online was around 200, and I've been alone in the lobby with chatty (quite scary really).

So going back up from 35 to 45 isn't a big deal, but I can usually get a good game with some old friends most nights.

Even see a few newbies.

ichi :bow:

[TW_Taiko]

Tiger clan is active on MTW and VI. Most of us play everyday, especially on weekend.

I have seen new players play MTW for the first time almost everyday. This is a good sign. Therefore, we spend much of our time in MTW showing them how to play this game. I hope the new generation of players will be as good as old one.

Do not brand all MTW players as noob, I know many of MTW players who are good players. So, if you see no one play VI in the lobby, switch to MTW, you will find many friends there :)

Tiger_Taiko
www.tigerclan.com (http://www.tigerclan.com)

[ff_ladyan]

R:TW is a disappointment because many old friends refuse to play them.

M:TW/VI is a no return because it is already stale by the time R:TW came out. We were waiting for R:TW already 6 months before R:TW was released.

Looking back at what we called "balanced" in M:TW, it is only a compromise, and since M:TW is simpler, a compromise was easily reached (game mechanics is better understood as well).

Oh so much potential for R:TW, but oh so much waste.

Annie

[L'Impresario]

Good to hear again from you Sid. Been a month or two I guess (my usual internet/PC probs heh).

Well, now that I'm back after quite a long period of inaction, I started playing a bit of VI mp, only to remember that most of the time I 'm trying to fight off boredom:). Otoh I always yearn to log on in order to get my VI "fix", if solely for a quick game every other day. This reveals the greatest appeal of the 2d-sprites TW era, at least according to me: there isn't anything similar out there, combining so much positive elements, extensively analysed over the years, while having serious negatives ones that could be partly fixed, but by no means in a RTW scale. In a few words...it was playable and highly addictive.

But it is also a product and nowdays...(enter naive and endlessly repeated comments on consumer society and trends).
After all some had played it for about 3 years- hmm, I guess that's why I continue playing it, 1.5 years to go:)

And I don't think it's simpler than RTW, nor was it "balance" that forced many a poor sod to change sleeping habits, among other things heh
(plus I haven't played yet extensively any VI mod mp, always a good option when you get bored of v4 woodsmen:P)

[Puzz3D]

M:TW/VI is a no return because it is already stale by the time R:TW came out. We were waiting for R:TW already 6 months before R:TW was released.

Looking back at what we called "balanced" in M:TW, it is only a compromise, and since M:TW is simpler, a compromise was easily reached (game mechanics is better understood as well).

I was on the RTW v1.2 beta team, and I could see by the way things were going that RTW v1.2 was not going to offer a multiplayer gameplay which came anywhere near the potential of the engine. This is why CBR, Mitch, Krypta and I made the Samurai Wars stat for barocca's STWmod for MTW/VI. We took lots of feedback from veteran STW players, and tried to recapture the feel of original STW. There is 15 years total playing experience with the STW/MTW game engine just in the four core people who worked on the unit stats. The mod is there for anyone interested in playbalance over other aspects. The balance and pacing of Samurai Wars is better than either MTW or VI. You can easily play 3 or 4 satifying battles in an hour. However, we've seen with mods before where, despite the rhetoric about the desire for good playbalance, most players jump to the new game whether it's better or not.

I'd be glad to play some Samurai Wars battles, but I can't afford to go and hang around the MTW/VI lobby for hours hoping some players with the mod will show up. After playing Samurai Wars, I can't go back to either MTW or VI. The team battles I played with Samurai Wars back in February were tactically richer than any version of Total War I've ever played. I see no point in trying to master or continue playing the inferior MTW or VI who's faults have been pointed out numerous times.

[L'Impresario]

The team battles I played with Samurai Wars back in February were tactically richer than any version of Total War I've ever played. I see no point in trying to master or continue playing the inferior MTW or VI who's faults have been pointed out numerous times.

Agreed (although I think that guns in VI are an annoying feature , I get the feeling they aren't as balanced as in STW and work in a somewhat strange way), but VI is as good or bad as you want to make it. 6k works very nice, multiplying the range of useful units, maybe not as successfully as a mod with a very limited unit selection, still it offers a quite strong r/p/s.
I have to admit tho that when re-installing VI, I never fail to get the Com Mod reinstalled , had some very good games on it as well and I didn't have to put up with very small maps and the same large ones - something that was a weird obsession with some SamMod players heh. Ofcourse I realise getting nowdays any players at all for any type of game in VI is more than hard, so mods are out of the question.

[Puzz3D]

It's disappointing but the remakes of the original STW maps for Samurai Wars do not provide the same gameplay because the red zone border was increased in MTW from 2 tiles to 3 tiles, and you can't go into the red zone in MTW the way you could in STW. As a result, the strategies used on those original maps don't work as well, and the playable area is smaller. The most successful remake was of Obake's Horselands custom map. Also, his excellent Rivercrossings map won't work because water is not fordable in MTW where is was in STW. A lot of Samurai Wars games were played with these small original maps in an attempt to capture STW's original feel, but it only really works with 1v1 or 2v2 battles. If people would rather play CBR's Community mod, I'd be up for that.

[Blodrast]

well, I chose the 3rd option, even though that may seem lame; but since I can't make games, I can't afford the time to wait around 30 minutes to play for less than 10...
However, I'm not much of an MP player anyway; I played little MP even way before RTW was officially announced - and I had the same problem, not being to create games.

Another possibility is that the MP community didn't just "desert" to the other side, but it's simply a temporary recoil... but of course I'm just guessing now.

[Shambles]

since I can't make games, I can't afford the time to wait around 30 minutes to play for less than 10...
-----------------
However, I'm not much of an MP player anyway; I played little MP even way before RTW was officially announced - and I had the same problem, not being to create games.




Have a look in the how to host shogun mp games, in the Sword do jo,
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=48438
I wrote it for shogun, But its the same for every game Apart from the port numbers,
Any way it should help you configure pc to Host games,
ShambleS
:bow:

[Pitt_Slayer]

well haven't played VI for 18 months now
but coz i've been playing mtw from xmas 2002 and then stopped about feb 2004 as i just had to much of it!!!

its a brilliant game BUT it gets a little boring after near 2 years, i honestly can't see the point of it anymore!!!

I did pin my hopes on RTW like many others, BUT then i realized CA stop being Creative Assembly "Group" and start to be Cash Assemblers PLC!!!

as RTW will be avilable very soon for the button bashing box.

lol remember CA saying it wasnt button bashing-box game ~;)

CA can't expect similar type of sales for their rtw add-on as they did for warlord\Vi as you kinda need a good game to start with.

on a slightly different matter here: has anyone played call of duty?
i realize its a totlly different game BUT if you look up on the history of the company behind it, then it gives hope that it might happen on our type of game.

(i'm sure there was similar treads ages ago about Stw and its add-ons)

[Puzz3D]

lol remember CA saying it wasnt button bashing-box game ~;)
RTW = whack-a-mole

If you like WWII multiplayer games, take a look at Red Orchestra (http://www.redorchestra.clanservers.com/) for UT2004.

[t1master]

i played a few games last night and had fun. the 7bears and hunters still seem pretty active.

lookin for ichi-san, when are you gonna be online again?

[CBR]

Hm time to saddle up me thinks!


CBR

[Krypta]

Shingen has been secretly plotting/hoping for the day for when Mizu heads will role again. There is no better spectacle than a Shingen charge running down fleeing Mizu. ~D

[CBR]

In your dreams stinking Shingen!


CBR

[Krypta]

Oh CB, I see you have crawled out from under the Mizu rock. If it is war you want it is war you will get! Time for me to muster fiance whipped Mitch...Shingen Rides!!!

[L'Impresario]

Hm time to saddle up me thinks!


CBR

~:eek:
..well, while your at it, get the ComMod proj stats to work with their little VI and Samwars brothers ~;)

..although I don't believe you heh

[CBR]

Hm ComMod used default projectile stats. I actually did think about doing a ComMod 1.1 and make projectile stats to work with SamWars (faster reloads on xbows to cut down lenght of missile phase as well fixing fatigue problem with spears etc) so I didnt have to swap stats between these two wonderful mods ~;)


CBR

[Orda Khan]

its a brilliant game BUT it gets a little boring after near 2 years, i honestly can't see the point of it anymore!!!

Unlike you, I was less than impressed with anything other than a modded version but I do agree that it is not worth the effort

........Orda

[L'Impresario]

Yes, I know you used the default, but I do remember your wanting to produce a new set of em, it would definately enhance the mod.

Oh yes, these two wonderful mods = the only way I can win a battle without using cheats;) ...and if you lose, hey, you can always just provide a new mod version hehe

[CBR]

hmm yes maybe I should...

Would be a horrible waste of time with so few players but that has not stopped me before!


CBR

[Jochi Khan]

I see Shingen still has horrible nightmares ~D ~D ~D

Still can't get used to running from Mizus :charge: :charge: :charge:

How you been Krypta? ~;)

Jochi

[Krypta]

Ah Jochi, the only Mizu worthy enough to ride with Shingen, cept for maybe Tosa but I have doubts with his skill after seeing him play Enemy Territory!

Doing good though M8. I think CB has some plans in the works for combining SW and MTW/VI, will have to see how it pans out though. Hopefully his skills are better at that, then they are at manning a u-boat. ~D ~D ~D

[t1master]

good to see you mizus and shingen last night :) i had two fun games, felt just like old times, especially the game you crushed us in!

i also saw ichi there but he was gone when i got out of my first game :charge:

i'll have to search out the shogun mod and install it on this pc, what projectile stat are you guys using now?

~:cheers:

[CBR]

Samurai Wars sticky has info and links: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=41796

Yeah had some good games yesterday although Im starting to get tired of losing to Alex and Sid ~;)

edit: oh and remember to get volume 1-3 mappack here if you dont already have it http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/MTW/Maps/MP_MapPackVol1-3.exe


CBR

[Sid_Quibley]

"although Im starting to get tired of losing to Alex and Sid ~;)"


But you just let us win so we would play sam more often didnt you? :bow:

[L'Impresario]

I think you 're getting a hold on how to promote your mods CB;)
Start inviting everyone for a test game and then lose consecutively; they 'll love it, trust me heh

Anyway, it was pretty fun playing a really challenging game after quite some time. In such mods, everything can happen, solid teams can get disoriented and small mistakes can lead to disaster indeed (as I've experienced quite a few times, esp with those bloody teppos - although they quite crunchy when you charge em from the flank with YCs:O))

Damn, we 're really beginning to get synchronised, eh Sid ~;)

[Stoicblitzer]

this is my second post on the org and i hope to be of use throwing in my two cents.

most of u know me as a praetorian noob. even as one of them i have experienced the joy of playing VI, although i lost most times,(thanks alex, sid) i still remember those fun games.

as to why the numbers in the vi lobby seem to be on the decline, i will blame WoW. most dislike rome and cant get back into vi after they have betrayed it to the anticipation of rome. do u think our beloved vi would ever love us again after we pined so long for rome and at her first kiss we got AIDS?

do u really think vi could take us back into her loving arms after we have betrayed her so?

[Tomisama]

There is definitely a move underway “back” to VI.

Don’t look at the numbers, look at the names.

Maybe it’s been long enough that we don’t mind returning to the “old” game?

Maybe we just can’t wait any longer for pie-in-the-sky.

A “Multie” has to play to stay alive, so it’s back up stream to the old spawning ground.

And you know what, for as long as it lasts, it sure feels good…

Hope to see you there :smile:

[ichi]

do u really think vi could take us back into her loving arms after we have betrayed her so?

some of us have been seeing her off and on the last six months, but I think she will take anybody anytime.

Some Hunters and Bears have stuck thru thick and thin, but the only one who has been completely true is Chattie, and he's not talking

ichi :bow:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hahahaha max 43 and your complaining...we Shogun diehards have gotten used to logging into an empty foyer day after day...15 online at once was a big day for us...once in a while we even had 4v4's...

~:cheers:

[Jochi Khan]

but the only one who has been completely true is Chattie, and he's not talking

ichi :bow:

Do you think he knows something that we don't ~D ~D ~D

Jochi

[Sid_Quibley]

Do you think he knows something that we don't ~D ~D ~D

Jochi

Hi Jochi.

He is probably holding out for the "yet to be announced" longest online award closely followed by Bear Bottom.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I am not moving back to VI.

RTW has many wrongs, one of which being underlying some of MTW/ VI faults I can't overlook anymore.

After playing RTW, using minimal UI, I got a hard time playing MTW/VI again; RTW had a MAJOR improvement with left click/ right click. I also find green arrows in RTW very helpful (although ugly). As far as interface goes, I think RTW is a superior product, and now playing MTW feels VERY frustrating.

I share Anne point of view; MTW was stalling a long time ago, long before RTW came out. The diversity of armies and situations was lacking... Remember the so many threads about swords being overpowered? Whether 5k would help or not? How frustrating that was?

Vanilla MTW/ VI got lot of faults that can probably be corrected by mod (such as very slow missile duel, pavese on hold/ hold resisting cavalry charge, rock/paper/scissor broken)... But so does RTW...

So right now, I got lot of fun playing non TW related games ~D
I got a slow Ironman RTW campaign going... For days I can't play Guild Wars ~D ... And I play an occasional RTW MP, if a clannie shows up on msn.
That's it for TW as far as I am concerned.

Louis,

[Drisos]

Sorry for OFF-thread post: (I do not play MTW)

Sid_Quibley, in the weekends, esecially evenings(for people near GMT) (mornings for U.S. there are quite some people. More and more are dropping in and STW is not in that bad state anymore

~:)

[Orda Khan]

I have to say I mirror a lot that Louis has to say, VI was indeed very stale way before the release of RTW. I have my own theories as to some of the causes of this rapid stagnation but I will not go over this again. It is disappointing none-the-less that so many can see major faults within RTW yet fail to acknowledge the faults of VI.

Louis, you are absolutely right about the interface of RTW, it is far superior to that of VI. Here again, I feel that people did not give it a chance and chose instead to dismiss it immediately.

I find that I am no longer a regular in the lobby but more a casual visitor these days. I have my own thoughts about the state of the RTW lobby too but I will not go into that either because it really is not worth the bother. I do not play any other PC games, TW was the only one that appealed to me and as things have transpired, perhaps this will mean that I spend less time sat at my PC in the evenings. I would not consider going back to VI though as I really was glad to see the back of that game. Plus the potential that Barbarian Invasion has to offer makes VI look positively ordinary by comparison

.....Orda

[t1master]

it's been good to see old familiar faces recently.

i no longer own rtw, and don't think i'll repurchase it... maybe another tw game will be better, but like tomi said, pie in the ski.

And you know what, for as long as it lasts, it sure feels good…

Hope to see you there

w00t! had some fun games the last few weeks, my mini-revival has been a blast, and the hatred of viking era is still alive and well ~D

[Hunter KIng George]

It has been fun these few last weeks, many old vets HAVE stop by for a couple of games...MTW/VI is still alive! It has been a great pleasure and honor to meet and battle many of you old timers. After all you are the guys that made this game so much fun and exciting. We welcome all you back! Happy Hunting!

[Puzz3D]

Vanilla MTW/ VI got lot of faults that can probably be corrected by mod (such as very slow missile duel, pavese on hold/ hold resisting cavalry charge, rock/paper/scissor broken)... But so does RTW...
Actually, you cannot really fix RTW MP or SP gameplay with a mod. The charge is broken and there are some problems with how spears work. That's going to require that CA put some effort into improving the battle mechanics. You can fix MTW/VI multiplayer with a mod because the battle mechanics work properly, and we did that with Samurai Wars which gives a highly tactical gameplay with a nice pace to the battles. Nothing can be done about lack of right click or horse archers not shooting on the move, but the MTW engine does give a combat penalty to overlapped units which RTW does not so the MTW engine is more advanced in that respect.


So right now, I got lot of fun playing non TW related games ~D
Unfortunately, that's the state of TW right now, although, I'm currently trying Mordred's RTW mod in a SP campaign, and it's definitely an improvement over the regular game. His mod is a fine tuning of the regular game not a drastic makeover.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Max 43 people online and only two people that I knew from pre-RTW days.

Try on weekends you can still find over 100 sometimes. I have never had any problem finding lots of old players there. Many have changed their names now that their clans arent active there anymore like myself.I could give you a list of 40 or 50 older players Ive played with this week.

The thing that made MTW-VI the best game in the world was the community though. Im afraid thats what RTW destroyed. The thing thats lacking now is all the interclan competition.

[Alouette]

Kind of funny.

The RTS I play generally, Kohan, is in the same situation (crappy sequel from the same company, community on life support and clan rivalries (not to mention clans) dead or dying).

Anyway, picked up MTW and thought I'd give MP a shot. What's the learning curve like? I mean, the AI is pretty bad in medieval, you can generally just time charges and win with vastly inferior numbers (I routed upwards of 1000 men with about 400 at one point in the campaign).

Thing is, I don't really feel like fighting noobness for six months; I don't have that kind of time for PC games anymore. Any advice on whether it's worth the effort?

Alou.

[Tiger_Tamerlane]

lol, SP is crap.U cant learn anything for MP their.
Many ppl who play SP a year or more coming in the MP lobby the first
time and getting massacred from ppl who played the game a few months in MP.
And this guys who play a few months getting easly massacred from the
guys who play MTW/VI more as 1-2 years.

[L'Impresario]

First of all: MP is vastly more enjoyable than SP - I regretted for not trying it out sooner, wasting 2 years in campaign. Otoh , this was good, as the vibrant TW community of old did "force" you to commit many hours of your life.

People who are willing to learn, have done a bit of homework and watch carefully what others do, will be able to fight decently in most situations after a 3-4 weeks period. Ofcourse now that there aren't many clans around and high-level playing (esp. in team games) is somewhat damaged by lack of competition (I don't point this out as a negative, the game is fun either way you look at it), the learning curve might be a bit longer as you can't replace a certain amount of experience acquired by playing vs a variety of knowledgeable in the game people. I wouldn't also forget that in team games many parameters apply and how your allies play -and how you react to them ofcourse- is as important as your own individual abilities.

IMO tho, most important of all is the "protocol". Moving little sprites around you can learn, decent manners you can't.

[Tomisama]

The thing that made MTW-VI the best game in the world was the community though. Im afraid thats what RTW destroyed. The thing thats lacking now is all the interclan competition.Sir Gawain, I have been thinking about this for about a month now. Seeing quite a few Clans represented on VI, maybe we could try a Clan Wars 4v4 Special Competition. Are there 4 RTKs up for such an event?

:duel:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Ill ask :bow: