Tech trees

[The Stranger]

thanx...i'll add the shieldwall later...since i dunno for wich they really go for...and you really must decide bout the weapons layout...cuz that i can change the units to the final stage

[Rodion Romanovich]

Aren't we using your weapons layout already? Or what is it you are missing? More detailed info about the units?

Note I edited the last three lines of my post above.

[The Stranger]

yeah i know but mine doest covers all...someone posted a other wich covered the part i'm missing (attack values) do i have permission to use that

[Rodion Romanovich]

I don't remember what it said about attack values... IMO it's best if you choose what you think seems like the best stats, and we'll then adjust them during the testing phase if they turn out bad.

[The Stranger]

consider it done

[Nacheras]

Here are some building in Al-Andalus

- Dar assikka: coin factory
- Kaisariya: Great Bazaar.
- Madrassa: school. Similar to academy of RTW.
- Madinat: Palace
- Aswak: commercial suburb
- Mosque. Not only religious building but also superior school and library.
- Kantara: aqueduct

The coin was the dinar

Good farmer development, similar to bizantinum and superior to frankish or asturican. Andalusies inherited and improved latifundia roman system.
Excellent trade development, also ports and roads. Roads are similar to the roman higways in quality and were places at the same places.

Mines were underexploted to roman times: roman wasted most of mineral resources of Sapin, and arabs were unexpert at this area. Gold near Toledo, Silver at Murcia and Corduba, Mercury at Corduba. Iron north of Sevilla. Tin at Algarve (south coast of Portugal).

[Nacheras]

Here I post you an Asturias tech tree.

First of all, I put you the names in English and latin. My English is bad, but my latin is worse, so please correct the names in right manner.

Feel free to choose those names and buildings you find suitable.

1) Governor´s building. I don´t know if have decided having a unique tree of governor´s building for all Christian European kingdoms. If you have not decided yet, here I post a trial asturian governor house tree: maiorii domus (headhouse), civitas curia (council seat), comites domus (county house), duces palatii (duke palace), rex palatii (royal palace), Aula Regia (capital royal court).

2) Military buildings: I have not found anything about military buildings in that times. There were not “quarters” concept in dark ages. You can use the Frankish kingdoms tech trees for infantry, cavalry or bowmen

3) Farmer development: Asturian economy relied on farmer. You can use a tech tree very similar to RTW-BI, but remember the asturians did not used the irrigation, so they should be 1 step under the andalusian farmer development.

4) Roads: I think the word “paved road” for asturican ways is very, very kindly. In fact asturians ways were less more than animal paths. In part due to there were not important roman highways in asturian historical territory, but also because of the lack of interest of asturians on communications. Itis (path)- via (land road)- strata (paved road- this one only in highly developed provinces). Forget about highways.

5) Public health structures. This is a remote concept for north Spanish Christians at 843 AD. Probably you can put latrina (privy)- cloaca (open sewer). For very developed towns you can put publicus fontus (public fountain) related with you have a rare example here (Oviedo):

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/3.htm

Nothing about aqueducts, that were present at andalusian developed provinces. I think is more realistic if you decrease the importance of squalor in public order or happiness. Focus on religious buildings, that really had importance those days in order to improve the happiness of people!

6) Market. Asturian trade were mainly inferior to andalusian, and near of Frankish kingdoms. Most of the trade was made by barter. Were used old gothic, andalusian an frank coins in little importance (actually only for taxes). Around X century was adopted Frankish silver system, but it still lasted many years to spread use of coins. Mercatus (market)- forum (great market)- merkatus de rege (royal town market. This one is the only historically I´ve founded).

7) Religious buildings: Good resume at RTW-BI, you can use in the same way (improve Christian conversion, improves happiness and public order). Sacellum (shrine)- Hermitage (I don´t know its latin name)- ecclesia (church)- cathedra (cathedral). Remember the cathedrals used to be also scriptorium (libraries), so they can serve (in little) as the roman scriptorium of RTW: dishmish corruption and improves administration.
The other religious tree could be convent- monastery- abbey (I did not found its latin names). Monastic buildings did play a important role on asturian life. They were centres of Christian irradiation, study and wealth. They were important land owners, so you can add to its Christian role, an improve to farmer production i.e. Please, don´t recruit any monk or priest military unit as in BI! Priest or monks were not fighters in dark ages.


Some examples of asturican buildings (mainly churches and abbeys):

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/1.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/2.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/4.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/5.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/6.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/7.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/8.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/9.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/10.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/11.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/12.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/13.htm

http://www.ctv.es/USERS/acabiedes/14.htm

Great link of architect art at Asturias. If you explore on sub-links you will find all kind of Spanish romanic buildings:

http://www.arteguias.com/prerromanico_asturias.htm

It does not conserve any civil building of IX-XI centuries, but you can assume its appearance were not very different to asturian religious buildings or to Frankish civil buildings.

And finally, in Spanish “reconquista” castles were very, very important, due to the irregular Spanish geography. Castles were places at strategic points in mountains or river crosses, and provided factions (asturians and andalusians) of safely borders. That role is played in RTW by the forts. I think you can translate this concept to castles. The only difference should be its bigger cost, and that they don´t disappear if there´s not any unit inside. I don´t know if this is technically possible, but it should be a terrific approach to historic reality.

[skeletor]

Thnx..

I havent really looked in to the forts yet, and i'm not sure if it's possible to have diffrent forts for diffrent cultures. If so, you wil surely see some nice fortifications. I allso think that the way the forts dissapear is hardcoded, but wat's the use of an uninhabited fort anyway..

-Skel-

[Meneldil]

There might be different forts for different cultures, but they will disappear once emptied (that's hardcoded)

[skeletor]

Yup, i checked it out now. you have atleas 3 forts to choose between, and i think we can add custom forts for each culture.

-SKel-

[ScionTheWorm]

bump (tired of using the "display options")

[Meneldil]

Of ships, what are planned?



I take it you have an idea about what kind of ships might be available to gaels ? ~D

[Ranika]

Yes, but I'm also curious about what's planned, so I can make what ships the Gaels get more appropriate. There are a few types of ships they used prior to the Norse invasions, like curragh (actually just hide/leather over a wood frame, but they did use them for transport) or langa (large wood ships for transporting many supplies or men and used by pirates) and others.

[Nacheras]

Andalusian tech tree

1) Governor´s building. Al-Kasr (palace), As-Zahra (great palace).

2) Wall

3) entertainment buildings. Ar-Russafa (garden), Munyat an-Naura (large garden)

4) quarters. I don´t know if you are going to use the AoR of RTR mod, to represent the progresive colonization of a territory. If you do something like that, I suggest create a specific building to recruit berber units. berbers were not exactly mercenaries (even they could be recruited as that). Many of them installed at Al-Andalus as military settlers, but only in some parts of Al-Andalus . IMO only that provinces with this (or these) special building/buildings should be able to recruit berber units. At the beggining of game berbers were settled at Tolaitola, Batalyas and Gharnata.

5) roads: same ways of roman "vias"

6) port

7) market: Important development of trade, mainly at south and east provinces. Basaar-little market, suk-medium market, kaisariya-big market, aswak-trading suburb (great market). Linen textiles at Sarakusta, silk textiles at Qurtuba, furs at Sarakusta. Jewels at Qurtuba, tiles at Sarakusta and Gharnata. Glass at Qurtuba. paper at Balansiya. Slaves at Ixbila, Qurtuba, Gharnata and Balansiya

8) agriculture: Great development of agriculture, mainly at south and east provinces. Al-Andalus were rightly called "the garden of Islam" by some arab poets. sakiya-irrigation.
Wheat at Ixbila, Batalyas, Qurtuba, Mursiya, Tolaitola, Balansiya and Sarakusta. Olive at Ixbila, Qurtuba, Mursiya, Gharnata. Goats at Ixbila and Qurtuba. Vegetables at Balansiya and Mursiya. Fruits at Batalyas, Ixbila, Qurtuba, Tolaitola, Balansiya, Gharnata and Mursiya. Wood at Balansiya. Rice at Balansiya. Sugar cane at Balansiya, Gharnata and Mursiya. Vineyard (and, yes, wine!) at Gharnata, Qurtuba, Balansiya, Sarakusta. Linen at Gharnata, Cotton at Ixbila. Silk at Mursiya and Gharnata.

9) blacksmith

10) health buildings. The arabs brought to Spain the refinated healthy buildings that found at bizantine territories that conquered. Al-kantara: aqueduct.

11) religious buildings. Mosque, of course (masgid). Great Mosque (Masgid Al-Gami). You can copy the same tech tree for abbasid caliphate.

12) Public security buildings: Darrab (Gate gurad), shurta sugra (police station)

13) mining: less importance than in roman times. Andalusians were not good miners. al-madan: mine. Gold in Tolaitola, silver at Mursiya and Qurtuba, iron at Ixbila, Mercury at Qurtuba, Tin at Bathalyas, lead at Qurtuba. Marbre at Gharnata and Mursiyya

14) administration buildings (scriptorium-like buildings): madrassa (school), Fikh (facultry of Law and Teology)

Caliph: Amir Al-muminin. Banner: ukda. Regiment: alam. Castle: Al-Kazab.

Ancillaires: hachib (first ministry), Wazir (ministry), katib (secretary of caliph), musrif (customs tax inspector), sahib as sikka (director of the House of Coins), cadi aljamaa (head of all judges of caliphate), akim (local head of judges), cadi (judge), udul (notary), mutashib (market inspector), sahib al-madina (local prefect), sahib al-shurta (local police chief), sahib al-mazalim (equal to roman censor).

I will continue searching and post more edits if I find

EDITED 23/01/2006

[Archbaker]

3) entertainment buildings. No exists at Al-Andalus that type of buildings.
I realise you are probably tired of hearing me say this, but wouldn't gardens count as entertainment buildings and didn't they have those?

[Nacheras]

Of course I´m not tired of reading you ~;)

Yes, the andalusians had public gardens, and if you consider that entertainment building, then yes, they had entertainment buildings.

I was thinking about theatres, hippodromes or tournements, that were banned by Al-Quram

[Archbaker]

:) I was just thinking it would be a possibility if balance issues meant they needed an entertainment building. And since your buildings seem to only improve Order through Law and Health, I imagine that some providing Happiness would be useful.
But nothing that allows games to be held, then.