Getting Smacked Around by the Spanish

[Auctoritas]

OK.
First time playing the campaign and playing the short Julii campaign on medium. Have fought the Spanish twice now in medium size battles (~1000) per side, and am getting thrashed. I had no problem with Gauls and with Spanish until recently. Either they wrap around both flanks with Cav or they blow right through my center, usually led by Heavy Cav.

My lines are predominantly Hastati with some Princeps. Do I need to be using Triari at this point? Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Azi Tohak]

Triarii are the best anti-cav units you can get (well...mercs...) and they would help. But beyond that...tell your pila troops to use them! I love pilas.

Do you play defensively tactically? Do you make them come to you? I like that because then the computer will be at a disadvantage.

Azi

[Auctoritas]

I have been playing defensively, and have outnumbered the Spanish by about 1300 to 1050. After my third whooping, I took a look at what kind of troops I was facing...Bull Warriors, with 2 HP and doing 14/16 Melee and 16/20 Missile damage, Scutarii with 12 Melee, 15 Missile and WAY too many light cav. His troops all had a ton of experience chevrons. My hastati and princeps were all stock standard and had Melee damage in the range of 7 to 8 and only 11/12 on pila damage.

I am beginning to think that I have run into a comparatively elite army of the Spanish. I think that I need to bring a slew of Praetorian bubbas to balance the books. What I don't know is how he got so many good troops with so much experience. My experienced guys shrink in size until I finally have to consolidate them and then they lose their perks. I also need to bring some more cavalry I suspect.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[spacekraken]

This is the formula I always used in MTW and now in RTW, and it works 99% of the time.

Set-up:
If you're playing defensively, pick an area at the very edge of the field as far as possible from where the enemy is likely to be (so they have to march forever and tire out).

Defensive line: In MTW I used Spearman-types for this, but in RTW use the guys with the shields and swords(any will do, hastati, early cohort etc.) by making a semi-circle of at least 3 sets. Set them to fire-at-will and guard-mode.

Put at least two sets of archers behind the defensive line of hastati/cohort/whatevers. Set archers to use fire and not to runaway. Make sure you don't have too many archers in one line or they'll stick out the sides undefended by the line, and the enemy make a beeline for them and completely ruin your day.

Behind the archers, put your calvary, (especially your general).

Your general cannot hide so don't use him for this, but if you have some left over calvary, and there are some woods around, hide them there.


Fight:
Let the enemy come to you and do nothing. If you have some calvary hidden, once the enemy passes by, I usually sacrifice them by hitting the enemy in the rear. You'll loose your calvary but it wears out the enemy and lowers morale.

As the enemy approaches they'll be decimated by archers. Then when they hit your defensive line they'll be pinned and your archers will continue to pepper them.

Bring your calvary out from behind your defensive running and get them behind the enemy and charge them in the rear, cream them. Within seconds the enemy will rout.

Mop up and smile. ~:cheers:

O yeh, be flexible. Don't follow this plan strictly in battle. Like if the enemy is killing your line with skirmishers, you probably wanna go head and send your calvary out to chase them off.

[Somebody Else]

The Spaniards get temples that provide +3 experience, hence the high-powered units. Just take a settlement or two, and start out-producing them. If you can sneak in and take settlements rapidly, you can whittle down their forces on the campaign map without too much trouble.

Thicker formations will help against cavalry charges cutting through your lines - triarii will help, of course. Have some cavalry of your own to screen your troops, and of course, where possible, flank, counter-flank... and flank some more.

[RabidGibbon]

Originally posted by Auctoritas
My experienced guys shrink in size until I finally have to consolidate them and then they lose their perks.

I don't know if you realise this already but if you take those damged units back to your cities where you can train that unit type then a retrain option will appear (To the right of the recruitment tab). This allows you to restore experienced units to full strength.

This should let you take better advantage of those experienced troops.

Good luck against those spanish.

[Zizka]

Auctoritas, it sounds as if Sertorius made it to Iberia in your campaign.

[Auctoritas]

Sertorius has thumped me so often, I have Sertorius-shaped fist prints on my head. Is he noteworthily bad to mess with? Up until him, I was doing reasonably well with my battlefield efforts.

To: Rabid Gibbon
I definitely did NOT know I could restore my primo units via training. Again with the not reading the manual. It appears to be a trend or something with me ...

Thanks to all. ~:)

KPB

[vale]

What you can do is get an army make up of cavalry, yes I have won many battle with them. Just assign each unit to it target and it will charge and broke through them, make sure you use all of the at one to charge to have full effect.

[katank]

Not true. Bull Warriors are quite buff. They will own your cav.

Bulls can take out urban cohorts one on one.

The Spanish are however quite susceptible to missiles. Take lots of archers and guard them. Feel free to shoot into the melee as your boys are better armoured than they are.

[Auctoritas]

Ok. More archers it is as I have tried every possible defense-in-depth, layered defense, and last stand defensive formation that I can come up with and I am STILL getting whacked.

On the other hand, I guess that I am glad that it isn't JUST bad generalship that accounts for my Hastati and Principes getting pounded into the dirt by these accursed Bull Warriors.

[Friteetbiere]

Hi,

I got whacked a couple of time by the Egyptians when playing Carthage, due to their chariots of war against non-spearmen.

I then gave some thoughts and adopted the following formation: a V shape.

Basically, Hannibal at Cannea style, all infantry units in one line in the form of a "V", with the available cavalry on the flanks. The enemy, with its spearmen and chariot, was on several lines, so its line of battle was shorter: all enemy foot troops came in the center of the V and got promptly routed since they were all flanked. Then I crushed their archers and could turn to their chariots, vastly outnumbering them.

I didn't use that formation much more because I started recruiting loads of spearmen resistant enough to avoid subtilities.

I don't guarantee it will work, but at least you have one more battle to try!

[Franconicus]

Take lots of velitas, try to get the bull warriors in crossfire. And kill their commander first!