Is nothing sacred ? [Archive]

Gawain of Orkeny

06-10-2005, 03:20

The Honeymooners has been running continuously on American TV for over 50 years. The Flintstones is a take off on it. The show only ran for one season yet most people think it was on for a decade. There were only 39 episodes. Jackie Gleason as Ralph Kramden is like a folk legend around here. It would be like making Fat Albert and having a white kid play him.

Heres some clips from the honeymooners. Still the funniest show ever to hit the airwaves. Every show is a classic.

Clips (http://www.honeymooners.net/index.html)

Click on video booth. This is great Im watching Duck Soup as I post this. Talk about a classic. Maybe we shold have a black version of this movie also.

I always had the hots for Alice. Look at this picture I found of her

http://www.honeymooners.net/pics/am01.jpg

bmolsson

06-10-2005, 03:50

The chicks have big boobs ???

Blodrast

06-10-2005, 03:57

okie, thanks for the explanation, Gawain.
I am often amazed to see some movie/show on TV, think "What crap!" and much later on, accidentally find out it was actually a remake of some older movie/show...
Most remakes suck, although naturally people have the tendency to remember the ones that don't; however, I think it's really really sad that there are very few new ideas, and that all we get is remakes of remakes with more glitz or special effects...

Also, while the idea of a remake is not bad in and by itself, my personal impression is that most of the remakes prove that the producers only had one thing in mind when making it: money. It's all this sequel/prequel (now these seem to be hot) crap, where if one worked, 3 more follow it to squeeze more money from the public, even though few of them are worth it. Of course it's also the public's fault...

Oh well, I guess I'm just being bitter today ~D
Wait, it's not just today, I'm bitter every day... Oh nevermind.

ichi

06-10-2005, 04:21

LOL

The one thing about the new Honeymooners is that they have removed the bit where Ralph clenches his fist and threatens to send Alice to the moon. Apparently in the 50's threatening your wife with a blow to the head was funny, but now it isn't.

ichi :bow:

GoreBag

06-10-2005, 04:33

Apparently in the 50's threatening your wife with a blow to the head was funny, but now it isn't.

I disagree. It's funny simply on the premise that one isn't allowed to say that, especially this day in age.

Aurelian

06-10-2005, 04:48

I agree that a black "Honeymooners" movie is a little weird. Maybe all the good fat white comedians are dead? The guy from "King of Queens" is funny and fat, but he's basically already doing a version of the "Honeymooners", so he doesn't count.

It reminds me of the weird decision to cast the 'Fresh Prince of Bel Aire' as Jim West in that crappy "Wild, Wild, West" remake they did a few years ago.

By the way, did you hear that Ving Rhames is going to be the new Kojak?

Maybe we need a new "Shaft" starring Rickie Schroder.

KafirChobee

06-10-2005, 05:16

LOL! To the moon Alice! TOO THE MOON!!!!!

I imagine the studios reasoning for using a black cast was to be "inventive" - put a twist into it. Had they really wanted to be inventive they would have made them Hispanic.

Who can second guess Hollywood's geniuses.

Thankfully, for them, there are still tons of comicbook heroes and characters for them to draw insperation from. 200,000 scripts submitted a year - and this is the best they could come up with to waste their dimes on?

~:eek:

Don Corleone

06-10-2005, 12:09

I don't see how having a black cast for the Honeymooners is any more or less 'sacred' then having a white guy play Othello. Isn't the whole idea of the acting craft is to be able to transcend your expectations of the actor and make you believe him as the character. Personally, I don't think 'white' culture, if such a thing exists anymore, is being assailed, which I believe is the point of this thread.

t1master

06-10-2005, 13:11

this movie is aimed at the american idol crowd, not the politics debating, wargaming internet crowd ;) as a descendant of 50's americana via my mother's family, i have to say i don't hold the honeymooners sacred, nor the flinstones and i used to watch both.

it is probably a social commentary, the fifities and early sixties were not reknowned for their racial tolerance... it's probably also a bunch of cedric's one liners from his stand up bits, funny but not worth the price of admission.

face it you are old gawain, kafir and ichi :OP

Gawain of Orkeny

06-10-2005, 13:43

this movie is aimed at the american idol crowd, not the politics debating, wargaming internet crowd ;)

I cant see anyone going to see this movie. Old folks like me will be turned off by it and lets face it how many black people do you think like the honeymooners enough to go see it? Next their gonna make a white version of Amos and Andy I suppose.

as a descendant of 50's americana via my mother's family, i have to say i don't hold the honeymooners sacred, nor the flinstones and i used to watch both.

What has the flintstones to do with the 50s?

it's probably also a bunch of cedric's one liners from his stand up bits, funny but not worth the price of admission.

That about sums it up.

Idaho

06-10-2005, 13:52

The fact that you see having black people act in films as an issue says everything about you Gawain and nothing about this film.

Don Corleone

06-10-2005, 14:29

I don't see any reason to convert this thread into personal invectives.

Ronin

06-10-2005, 15:16

damn it....who cares?...it´s not like someone´s gonna force people to go see this....

i´ve watched a few episoded of this series and my opinion is that it´s good name comes mainly from the nostalgia factor of the people that watched this growing up.....you allways remember these things better then they actually were....

so what if the actors are black?...does it make a diference?...

nobody heard me bitch when new line decided to destroy the Friday the 13th movies with those awfull last 2 movies.....

bottom line...if you think it´s crap...don´t go see it.

P.S.- Just to answer the question....No...nothing´s sacred.

t1master

06-10-2005, 15:39

you mentioned the flinestones as a take off on the honeymooners mate.. the cartoon was also influenced heavily by fifties pop culture as it spilled over into the sixties...you can see this in just about every animated scene on the show... ;)

i think you miss the point about cedric's and many 'black' comedians bits. this movie will be making fun of white america in a harmless fashion and give the standard 'honeymooners schtick'' an urban or african american slant, very similar to cedric's stand up routines and his sketch comedy, and that is what will draw in the black audience, and alot of younger folks who don't hold a dated black and white show like the honeymooners sacred...

like i said, yer old :OP

Gawain of Orkeny

06-10-2005, 16:22

The fact that you see having black people act in films as an issue says everything about you Gawain and nothing about this film.

Oh please, some of my favorite actors are black. Im just a real big Honeymooners fan. How would you like a black remake of the Benny Hill Show? I just cant see who ths film would appeal to other than diehard cedric fans. Because I think its ludicrous to make a black honeymooners movie it looks like your trying to label me as a racist.

P.S.- Just to answer the question....No...nothing´s sacred.

I dont really think the Honeymooners are sacred either. Its just the turn of a phrase.

i think you miss the point about cedric's and many 'black' comedians bits. this movie will be making fun of white america in a harmless fashion and give the standard 'honeymooners schtick'' an urban or african american slant, very similar to cedric's stand up routines and his sketch comedy, and that is what will draw in the black audience, and alot of younger folks who don't hold a dated black and white show like the honeymooners sacred...

How much you want to bet its a big flop?

Im in the movie buissness and the only way I found out about it was a pop up on the internet.

t1master

06-10-2005, 16:45

definately will be a flop man!

cedric is just trying to cash in on some of his previous success... i know i won't be going out of my way to see it :)

Proletariat

06-10-2005, 17:03

This is a non-issue to me, but casting Denzel as Hannibal I found pretty ridiculous. More because of idiotic afro-centric thought, than anything else.

ichi

06-10-2005, 17:08

face it you are old gawain, kafir and ichi

are you trying to get my Goat? :duel:

actually, I think you've found the one thing we three could possibly agree on!

i know i won't be going out of my way to see it

no doubt, you'll probably be taking the family to see Madagascar , which, after purchasing tickets, popcorns, sodas, and Junior Mints you'll be 'entertaining at home' for several months. ~;)

ichi :bow:

ps when am I gonna see you online T? and I don't mena in Rome!

Ironside

06-10-2005, 20:00

On a simular, but different note.

How did Arameic people look like for 2000 years ago?
I've even seen blond blue-eyed people play Christ. ~:confused:

t1master

06-10-2005, 20:09

not to drag gawain's topic off the rails.. ~;)

i played a few games last night ichi-san, i quit the w0w, so i'll be popping into the vi lobby more often, but not many peeps there.

hopefully i'll get a few games in sat or sunday, depending on how the brew session goes.

:bow:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

06-10-2005, 20:14

eh, that's more about religious iconography and the probable impact of the representation of Apollo on later representations of JC.

As people trying to look like long traditions of iconography I'd have to say that those actors were well cast.

Steppe Merc

06-10-2005, 21:05

This is great Im watching Duck Soup as I post this. Talk about a classic. Maybe we shold have a black version of this movie also.
I found that quite funny when I watched that in my American Film and Culture class. ~D

This is a non-issue to me, but casting Denzel as Hannibal I found pretty ridiculous. More because of idiotic afro-centric thought, than anything else.
GAH! GAH! GAH! :wall: :wall:

Why don't we make a movie about the Achaemid Persians, and have them be played by Arabs? :furious3:

this movie is aimed at the american idol crowd, not the politics debating, wargaming internet crowd ;)
Gah, any one that clames to be a "rocker" and quit their band to be on a fricken pop singer talent show ought to be thrown out in to the woods, their hair shaven and beard clipped off. That'll teach that stupid Boo!

doc_bean

06-10-2005, 22:54

I found that quite funny when I watched that in my American Film and Culture class. ~D

GAH! GAH! GAH! :wall: :wall:

Why don't we make a movie about the Achaemid Persians, and have them be played by Arabs? :furious3:

The Scorpion King still scores pretty high on the 'idiotic race casting' , an Asian as an Egyptian princess ? :dizzy2:

ichi

06-11-2005, 00:20

The Scorpion King still scores pretty high on the 'idiotic race casting' , an Asian as an Egyptian princess ?

Watch The Conqueror starring John Wayne as Genghis Khan, or Tony Curtis as Ali Baba (1952).

Now that's good casting

ichi :bow:

Ronin

06-11-2005, 00:33

On a simular, but different note.

How did Arameic people look like for 2000 years ago?
I've even seen blond blue-eyed people play Christ. ~:confused:

hahah...precisely....

watch "Dogma" for some serious laughs concerning that subject ~D

KukriKhan

06-11-2005, 13:11

Next their gonna make a white version of Amos and Andy I suppose.

Been done. The original radio cast were white guys 'talking' black.
http://www.midcoast.com/~lizmcl/aa.html

Idaho

06-11-2005, 13:44

Oh please, some of my favorite actors are black. Im just a real big Honeymooners fan. How would you like a black remake of the Benny Hill Show? I just cant see who ths film would appeal to other than diehard cedric fans. Because I think its ludicrous to make a black honeymooners movie it looks like your trying to label me as a racist.
Benny Hill? I would be amazed that anyone would remake that crap in any format.

The point is how much this reflects the division in your society. A film either has to be a 'black' film or a 'normal' film. They are just doing a remake of a sit-com standard - big deal. The fact that in order to reflect reality and public taste in the US the film has to market it self to one audience or the other. You have 'black music' stations over there. 'Black charts'. It is so every present that you don't even notice.

Do you think when a Fistful of dollars was made all the Japanese Americans were saying that it broke some sacred Japanese only seal on the story?

Can you begin to see how this looks to outsiders? You have black areas where black people live. I spoke to one american and he told me that black people were discouraged from buying houses in white areas as this brought property prices down as it would then be seen as a 'mixed' area, and hence less desireable.

I have another friend who recently moved over to the US. He likes the place but says that it is a divided nation. He says those divisions are striking and reminders of the division are visible everywhere.

Fragony

06-11-2005, 14:17

It is strange that a white show goes black, why not stick to the source material. What is next a black James Bond?

Steppe Merc

06-11-2005, 14:39

Heck, it would be horrible to even change that he was British. I hope the next guy is someone good, though I'd prefer if they brought back Sean Connery. ~:cool:

Don Corleone

06-11-2005, 16:20

Can you begin to see how this looks to outsiders? You have black areas where black people live. I spoke to one american and he told me that black people were discouraged from buying houses in white areas as this brought property prices down as it would then be seen as a 'mixed' area, and hence less desireable.

That's illegal, and if you knew half as much about America as you claim to, you'd know that. This 'one American' either was referencing the 1960's, or he has an axe to grind. Are there black neighborhoods & white neighborhoods? Yes. But by far there's more 'mixed' neighborhoods, especially in the suburbs, then any other kind.

I have another friend who recently moved over to the US. He likes the place but says that it is a divided nation. He says those divisions are striking and reminders of the division are visible everywhere.

Yes Idaho, your one friend has revealed our deep dark secret. He alone tells the truth, that we still have lynchings, that blacks and whites hate each other and we can't get along, and that even in employment, we're still essentially an apartheid state. :dizzy2: Give me a freaking break. Before you go making such pronouncements, climb down out of your ivory tower, fly over here and spend a few weeks driving around. Get outside the cities (which tend to be segregated, not just along white/black lines, but irish/jewish/italian/german lines), and get out to see how middle America lives . Go bowling, watch a minor league baseball game, go out to a dance club in a small city. I think you'll be surprised by how wrong you are.

GoreBag

06-11-2005, 17:22

It is strange that a white show goes black, why not stick to the source material. What is next a black James Bond?

It was being considered for a replacement for Pierce Brosnan. It really lit a match under my arse.

ichi

06-11-2005, 17:34

It is strange that a white show goes black, why not stick to the source material. What is next a black James Bond?

Mr James T Bond (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs32&d=05236&f=mr.t.jpg)

doc_bean

06-11-2005, 18:38

On the other hand, the Ashton Kutcher vehicle 'Guess Who ?' is apparently a remake of 'Guess who's coming to dinner ?'

There are also a couple of movies that inverse the race role sin society, Boomerang does this without drawing too much attention to it iirc. But there was also a movie, I think with John Travolta, that focused on this.