View Full Version : Scandinavian Union?
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 15:01
This is purely hypothetical,but what do you guys think about creating an Scandinavian Union?Countries included could be Sweden,Norway,Finland,Denmark and maybe Iceland.
Im asking this because i think in EU.Our countries are pretty small and there are many people that are afraid that in future we will have very little to say in important issues in EU decicion making processes.
In my opinion i would support this Union because i think all Nordic countries have very similar policy and we share pretty common values.
I even think that EU wouldnt have an problem with such Union,because instead having many different opinions from our countries they would get only one from the Scandinavian Union.It would be intresting to know what the Norwegian people would think of this kind of Union,because they are not currently members of the EU.
Great idea. Just extend it a bit further.
Seeing as it's imagination. How about an independent England joining too? To edgy for ya?
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 15:13
Great idea. Just extend it a bit further.
Seeing as it's imagination. How about an independent England joining too? To edgy for ya?
So you would leave Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland out of it? ~;)
I thought you guys allready have your own Union? :bow:
I'd welcome them happily aboard as independent post UK union states.
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 15:33
Okay.So you would dispand United Kingdom and you would join the Scandinavian Union.What benefits you see in joining up with Scandinavia? :bow:
Well of course - we need a massive rebate!
The benefits are; as reserved northern states, we will work together and in peace. We will fight only when we have to. We will respect nature, drink lots vodka and watch hard core porn on the telly (but only if you want to)!
The real benefit is that it's not Federal Europe.
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 15:43
Well of course - we need a massive rebate!
The benefits are; as reserved northern states, we will work together and in peace. We will fight only when we have to. We will respect nature, drink lots vodka and watch hard core porn on the telly (but only if you want to)!
The real benefit is that it's not Federal Europe.
Pretty good points there. Those are my kind of values. ~:cheers:
Al Khalifah
06-15-2005, 17:10
I'm all for this idea too if England is invited to be a member.
From my time in Scandinavia I think they are a people we would easily get along with, much more easily than the Scots or Welsh. The values and belief seem to be the same. Also, there are no sponging states in such a union like there are in the European Union.
Check it out:
GDP Per Capita ($):
2 Norway 41,941
5 Iceland 35,686
6 Denmark 34,718
14 Finland 30,818
16 United Kingdom 30,309 (would be higher as England)
19 Sweden 29,537
Total GDP nominal ($):
4 United Kingdom 2,295,039 (would be lower as England)
19 Sweden 383,816
24 Norway 285,604
27 Denmark 265,934
31 Finland 204,385
86 Iceland 15,388
TOTAL: 3,450,166 - far greater than Germany.
I may be anti-EU but I am pro NU (Nordic Union).
English assassin
06-15-2005, 17:32
I think the Swedes would have to lighten up. A LOT.
ASlso IIRC Norway is sitting on a pretty fat pile of cash from north sea oil which they have salted away for future use. Very wise of them. Would they want to share that with the rest of Scandanavia, (inc their former overlords the Swedes)?
.... hey, I get all warm in my pants when I see this kind of thread haha!
Im all for a Nordic Union.
As I see it, the problem with EU (besides that Franche is in it) is that many European countrys have little or Nothing in common.
For instance, why the hell should Turkey be in the EU, its a semi-democratic country that lacks human rights and tortures people.
The northern European countrys have much in common tho. We all speak English more or less, and Scandinavians understand each other... ehr, execpt those silly finnish folks ~;) Tho many speak Swedish ~:)
Our societies more or less look very similar. We all drink beer, we all drink vodka, our women are the most beutifull in the world. need I continue? ~:cheers:
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 17:48
I agree with you Lazul. ~:cheers:
It would be really intresting to hear what the Norse and Dane patrons think about this?
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 17:52
Slso IIRC Norway is sitting on a pretty fat pile of cash from north sea oil which they have salted away for future use. Very wise of them. Would they want to share that with the rest of Scandanavia, (inc their former overlords the Swedes)?
About the Norway.I dont see why other scandinavians would even try to get Norways oil money.
No, no! They`d just suck out all of our oil money! ~D
Kagemusha
06-15-2005, 18:08
No, no! They`d just suck out all of our oil money! ~D
We would not do that.Or would we? ~D
Think if we would combine our industries.We would be pretty self-efficient(spelling?!)
ASlso IIRC Norway is sitting on a pretty fat pile of cash from north sea oil which they have salted away for future use. Very wise of them. Would they want to share that with the rest of Scandanavia, (inc their former overlords the Swedes)?
Probably never. Their oil reserves and fisheries are their greatest advantages and the origin of their wealth. If I were them I wouldn't have joined the EU either, for it meant the loss of control over these resources.
As for the Nordic Union, I see little in common between the ultra-liberal English policies and the Scandinavian "Welfare states". In my opinion this union wouldn't last long. On the other hand a pure Scandinavian union is probably the only solution for Nordic peoples to be heard, lost amongst a gigantic EU.
English assassin
06-15-2005, 18:25
As for the Nordic Union, I see little in common between the ultra-liberal English policies and the Scandinavian "Welfare states". In my opinion this union wouldn't last long.
Much as I like Scandinavia, I have to agree. A shared culture of drinking too much and fighting is no doubt a first class basis for a good night out, but it would make for a pretty ropey political union.
lets leave the english out then!, and in the future once your have taken a few steps to the left you can join ~;)
:bow:
Something about having Finland as a member of a Scandinavian union doesn't make sense to me. The only reason for really having the union would be cultural similiarity, and Finns aren't Germanic. Now, as to whether or not Scandinavia as a country should be on good terms with Finland is an unrelated matter, but a Scandinavian union seems to me as a nationalistic idea, suitable for pseudo-vikings. Neither would it make sense to have England get on the boat.
bmolsson
06-16-2005, 02:29
I don't understand why the Northern countries are not one country. Actually most of it has been Danish in history.......
I don't understand why the Northern countries are not one country. Actually most of it has been Danish in history.......
Same reason Austria and Germany aren't one and the same - politics.
NimbleNota
06-16-2005, 03:24
You guys should adopt Newfoundland, And Nova Scotia, we are much like you guys. And the Rest of canada wants us gone anyways ~D
The Nordic Union, featuring England and the ScotiaLand band
hmmm a good sound to it indeed ~:cheers:
Byzantine Prince
06-16-2005, 03:36
You guys should adopt Newfoundland, And Nova Scotia, we are much like you guys. And the Rest of canada wants us gone anyways ~D
You're right.
*BP get's the finishing touches on his "screw newfieland" and "ban Nova Scotia" posters* ~D
Ironside
06-16-2005, 08:59
I don't understand why the Northern countries are not one country. Actually most of it has been Danish in history.......
The only place that havn't been Swedish anytime in history (more or less, Norway was quite independent during the union) is Copenhagen, so not much to get from there.
Something about having Finland as a member of a Scandinavian union doesn't make sense to me. The only reason for really having the union would be cultural similiarity, and Finns aren't Germanic
The cultural similarity is that Finland was Swedish for about 600 years and is still very influenced of that time.
If you do, can we tag along? Scandinavia + Holland would be ace, and we have a lot in common.
Krusader
06-16-2005, 09:43
There is a debate going on in Norway if we are to join EU or not. After the French & Dutch NOs to the constitution, it flared up a bit. Some parties wants to join, others does not.
Most fear that the EU will take control over our oil and fish resources, and if we join the EU Norway has to allow several other countries to fish in our waters, like Spain & Portugal. The fishermen are strongly against this. And the latest years the Norwegian currency has increased its value, and this heavily affected the coastal communities in northern Norway as it became harder to export fish and they lost money (will try and check this more thouroghly) and many fisheries and factories had to close down.
Some of those who wants to join the EU, only wants to do it so Norway won't be left out. Others are indifferent as Norway being member of the EFTA, has introduced most of the EU trade laws in that treaty (will try to find link to support this, heard it in TV news)
Some of the Nay-people mean EU will mean less independence for Norway, and others again see the EU as something that only benefits France & Germany.
The loss of oil money and the fear of Norway losing many benefits is also something many don't feel good about.
What I've listed are opinions note that. A political union with Sweden, Denmark & Finland would be good, and I think most Norwegians would be happy about that. We already have many treaties among us that benefit all, like free flow of labour (longer than EU) & good trade agreements.
And as a nitpick: A Nordic union would be better named, as Scandinavia is only Norway, Sweden & Denmark, at least in Norway ~;)
Wikipedia Definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia)
Al Khalifah
06-16-2005, 09:57
If you do, can we tag along? Scandinavia + Holland would be ace, and we have a lot in common.
This is going to end up as every EU nation that isn't a net beneficiery. Not a bad idea actually.
England does have quite a welfare state system, though not as strong as the ones of Scandinavia. I'm sure they'd be happy to change and become even more socialist if Scandinavians would come in and sort out their shocking public services.
I know which union I'd rather be in:
http://www.mevyou.co.uk/pictures/nueu.gif
Ja'chyra
06-16-2005, 10:41
Hey, why are you guys letting in England and forgetting about the Scots, you know that we're much better liked.
There is a debate going on in Norway if we are to join EU or not. After the French & Dutch NOs to the constitution, it flared up a bit. Some parties wants to join, others does not.
Pray that you don't join, then. You have nothing to gain: you'll pay for French farmers and get nothing in return as your agriculture isn't very developed and your country is already richer than most of the other members.
Some of those who wants to join the EU, only wants to do it so Norway won't be left out.
This is a poor argument because with just over 4 million inhabitants, Norway would be a "light weight" in the EU.
Har en hyggelig dag ~;)
This is going to end up as every EU nation that isn't a net beneficiery. Not a bad idea actually.
England does have quite a welfare state system, though not as strong as the ones of Scandinavia. I'm sure they'd be happy to change and become even more socialist if Scandinavians would come in and sort out their shocking public services.
I know which union I'd rather be in:
http://www.mevyou.co.uk/pictures/nueu.gif
There is something very wrong with your net beneficiery map! We pay mucho more then you vikings do, Sweden is the #2 greed victim with 80 euro a person, we pay 180! And why on earth is Luxemburg the biggest receiver, it isn't like they are starving over there, nope not at all. Screw europe, bunch of thieves. Ya, Holland + scandinavia, makes sense because we are allready paying the damn thing.
English assassin
06-16-2005, 11:21
Lets call it......EFTA !
What about the Irish? Seems to me we are forming the "Cold places where people drink beer" union so Ireland would at least be invited to join. Besides a lot of Irish people work in England so it would save on paperwork.
Al Khalifah
06-16-2005, 11:40
There is something very wrong with your net beneficiery map!
Indeed there is.
It is a map of the countries proposed for a Nordic Union and countries currently in the European Union.
Well as I see it, a united Europe is a wonderfull idea... but it doesnt work becouse nations are so different.
So first thing to do is to unite some parts of Europe.
First Scandinavia into one nation (+finland) then Maybe Spain and Portugal together. Germany and Austria. Italy with Malta and Greece.
Just tossing around ideas.
But a Northern European Union sounds good to me as long as it stays on the left o the political scale! :bow:
Al Khalifah
06-16-2005, 12:32
Such a Union could easily afford to be leftist, because there are no weaker members.
I looked further at this and its quite incredible how similar the Northern nations are to one another.
Economic Freedom Index: (EU rank / nation / global rank)
1 Luxembourg 3
2 Estonia 4
3 Ireland =5
4 United Kingdom 7
5 Denmark =8
6 Sweden 14
7 Finland 15
Corruption Perceptions Index : (EU rank / nation / global rank)
1 Finland 1
2 Denmark =3
3 Sweden 6
4 Netherlands 10
5 United Kingdom 11
Human Development Index : (EU rank / nation / global rank)
1 Sweden 2
2 Netherlands 5
3 Belgium 6
4 Ireland 10
5 United Kingdom 12
6 Finland 13
7 Austria 14
8 Luxembourg 15
9 France 16
10 Denmark 17
Sjakihata
06-16-2005, 13:10
instead of a nordic union, let's just back track history and return the lands to the former and right owners, namely Danmark. Norway was ours, Skåne, Halland and Blekinge was ours - imagine if Napoleon had won - our empire would have been huge then :p
at any rate - the nordic union have been tried and it has failed already- the countries cudnt even agree on making such a union - and I think we would gain next to nothing from it. Already great networks exist between scandinavia, trade, police, politics, education etc etc - all is there already, however, not formalized under a union - which I like.
Al Khalifah
06-16-2005, 15:13
Maybe I'm just biased towards the Union because I went England to be part of it so I can be re-united with my Norse bretheren. Also I doubt like the EU because its full of scroungers.
Har en hyggelig dag ~;)
Nice. I see you`re ready to join the union! ~D
Kagemusha
06-16-2005, 19:59
Something about having Finland as a member of a Scandinavian union doesn't make sense to me. The only reason for really having the union would be cultural similiarity, and Finns aren't Germanic. Now, as to whether or not Scandinavia as a country should be on good terms with Finland is an unrelated matter.
What can i say Neongod?I disagree.I dont know how much do you know about Finnish history or culture?Yes we are not germans.We are Finno-Ugrig and there are only about 23 million people in the world who speak these languages.
Finnish have had long and bloody history because we are located literally between East and West,on the other side the Germans and on the other The Slavs.Personally i think its a little miracle that we still exist at all.
About our relationship with our western neighbours here is an example:In early WWII in 1939.Soviet Union attacked Finland in so called Winter War.The only country that really helped Finland was Sweden by supplying us weapons and volunteers.The odds didnt look too good for Finland,at that time Soviet Union didnt wage war against any other country.Sweden went that far that they adopted tens of thousends Finnish children,so there would be some of us left,if the rest would be exterminated.
That kind of people i call good neighbours. :bow:
Krusader
06-16-2005, 20:08
What can i say Neongod?I disagree.I dont know how much do you know about Finnish history or culture?Yes we are not germans.We are Finno-Ugrig and there are only about 23 million people in the world who speak these languages.
Finnish have had long and bloody history because we are located literally between East and West,on the other side the Germans and on the other The Slavs.Personally i think its a little miracle that we still exist at all.
About our relationship with our western neighbours here is an example:In early WWII in 1939.Soviet Union attacked Finland in so called Winter War.The only country that really helped Finland was Sweden by supplying us weapons and volunteers.The odds didnt look too good for Finland,at that time Soviet Union didnt wage war against any other country.Sweden went that far that they adopted tens of thousends Finnish children,so there would be some of us left,if the rest would be exterminated.
That kind of people i call good neighbours. :bow:
Norway did also help ~;)
Many men volunteered and as I recall we sent like 50.000 bags (selkäreppu) among a few other things. Although Sweden's help was of course greater.
Plus, being half-Finnish myself and visiting Finland each summer, my opinion is that most Finns feel like they belong more to the Nordic than the Baltic and Russia. Correct kagemusha?
Kagemusha
06-16-2005, 20:18
Norway did also help ~;)
Many men volunteered and as I recall we sent like 50.000 bags (selkäreppu) among a few other things. Although Sweden's help was of course greater.
Plus, being half-Finnish myself and visiting Finland each summer, my opinion is that most Finns feel like they belong more to the Nordic than the Baltic and Russia. Correct kagemusha?
Definetly!(bloody spelling) Krusader! ~:cheers:
I personally dont know single Finn,who would like to be part of Russia.While i dont think that the majority of us have nothing seriously against them.The warlike days are over. :bow:
Nice. I see you`re ready to join the union! ~D
Hehe, yes I'm considering exile in Scandinavia. Plus, I've heard that French language is quite popular among the female gender in Norway ~D
instead of a nordic union, let's just back track history and return the lands to the former and right owners, namely Danmark. Norway was ours, Skåne, Halland and Blekinge was ours - imagine if Napoleon had won - our empire would have been huge then :p
at any rate - the nordic union have been tried and it has failed already- the countries cudnt even agree on making such a union - and I think we would gain next to nothing from it. Already great networks exist between scandinavia, trade, police, politics, education etc etc - all is there already, however, not formalized under a union - which I like.
Things have changed, we have no greedy kings ruling supreme this time, we are playing by the rules of democracy! :bow:
Plus, I've heard that French language is quite popular among the female gender in Norway ~D
If that`s right, you better teach me some french right away ~:cheers:
If you're looking for Nordic types you might want to invite Wisconsin and Minnesota to join too. They would have to successfully secede of course and that has been problematic for others making the attempt in the past. :grin:
Kagemusha
06-16-2005, 20:54
If you're looking for Nordic types you might want to invite Wisconsin and Minnesota to join too. They would have to successfully secede of course and that has been problematic for others making the attempt in the past. :grin:
Why not? ~D :hide:
What can i say Neongod?I disagree.I dont know how much do you know about Finnish history or culture?Yes we are not germans.We are Finno-Ugrig and there are only about 23 million people in the world who speak these languages.
Finnish have had long and bloody history because we are located literally between East and West,on the other side the Germans and on the other The Slavs.Personally i think its a little miracle that we still exist at all.
About our relationship with our western neighbours here is an example:In early WWII in 1939.Soviet Union attacked Finland in so called Winter War.The only country that really helped Finland was Sweden by supplying us weapons and volunteers.The odds didnt look too good for Finland,at that time Soviet Union didnt wage war against any other country.Sweden went that far that they adopted tens of thousends Finnish children,so there would be some of us left,if the rest would be exterminated.
That kind of people i call good neighbours. :bow:
I....don't see a refutation of anything I've said.
Kagemusha
06-16-2005, 21:12
I....don't see a refutation of anything I've said.
What i meant,was that in matter of fact we have very similar culture with Sweden and Norway.While we are not germans.If you look at Switzerland,are they homogenetic people?
what has race got to do with it? its not all Swedes are germanic and so on. We got alot of Kurd, Turks, Albanians, Serbs, Greeks, English and Americans etc etc.
Actually I couple of Americans moved in to brothers neighborhood (sp?) from California. When my brothers wife asked them, they said that Bush is destroying their country.
might add that I laughed for a second or two ~;)
Kagemusha
06-16-2005, 21:59
I dont support races at all.I think we are all just human beings. :bow:
Al Khalifah
06-17-2005, 09:40
What about Estonia ?
Might be a mistake to leave the beautiful people of Talinn out of any such union.
What i meant,was that in matter of fact we have very similar culture with Sweden and Norway.While we are not germans.If you look at Switzerland,are they homogenetic people?
Culture and race are different things.
Switzerland isn't trying to justify its place in a Scandinavian union.
While, yes, there is mixing, and nothing is black and white, Finland, while still very cold, grim, tough and all those good things, is not part of Scandinavia.
Finland, while still very cold, grim, tough and all those good things, is not part of Scandinavia.
Well if start nitpicking, then Denmark and Iceland can't join either as geographically they are not part of Scandinavian penisula.
I do think most of us consider Finland to be part of Scandinavia/Nordic Countries. They might have different language but history/culture binds us together.
CBR
Byzantine Prince
06-17-2005, 19:50
Well if start nitpicking, then Denmark and Iceland can't join either as geographically they are not part of Scandinavian penisula.
So neither can some fjords and islands? :sneaky:
Krusader
06-17-2005, 23:06
Scandinavia is the cultural and historic region of the Scandinavian Peninsula. The Scandinavian countries are Norway, Sweden and Denmark, which mutually recognize each other as parts of Scandinavia. The collective label "Scandinavia" reflects the cultural similarity, and the strong historical ties, between these countries despite their political independence.
The usage and meaning of the term outside Scandinavia is somewhat ambiguous:
* Finland, the Faroe Islands, and Iceland are sometimes counted as parts of Scandinavia.
* In a German mindset, Norway, Sweden and Finland are usually included, but Denmark is not.
* In a British mindset, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark are usually included, often with the addition of Iceland, Finland, and sometimes even Greenland.
These alternative meanings are considered incorrect in Scandinavia, and occasionally some people may take offense by such usage in English.
The term the Nordic countries is used unambiguously for the Scandinavian kingdoms of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and the republics of Finland and Iceland.
The terms Fennoscandia and Fenno-Scandinavia may either be used to include the Scandinavian peninsula, the Kola peninsula, Karelia and Finland under the same term alluding to the Fennoscandian Shield, or they may be used in a more cultural sense, more or less as a synonym for the Nordic countries, to signify the historically close contact between Finnic, Sami and Scandinavian peoples and cultures.
From Wikipedia, which I concur with.
Sjakihata
06-17-2005, 23:11
so do I, and it is correct. originally, scandinavia is s, n and dk.
Kagemusha
06-18-2005, 02:20
Culture and race are different things.
Switzerland isn't trying to justify its place in a Scandinavian union.
While, yes, there is mixing, and nothing is black and white, Finland, while still very cold, grim, tough and all those good things, is not part of Scandinavia.
Are you insulting my people?What country are you from? And what do you know about my country.Why should we justify enything to enyone. If you look at our history even a little bit you should know were we stand.
Im sorry but i have to ask you because you seem to know all the answers.Where are we if not in Scandinavia geophragigally speaking?
bmolsson
06-18-2005, 08:35
Actually, Scandinavia is only Sweden and Norway. Denmark on the other hand as the oldest Nordic country has had control over Scandinavia several time through history.....
NeonGod, try not to insult the Finns :blank2:
A Scandinavian Union should be based on Culture and Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway are all very much alike. Even the Languages are much alike.
All this talk about Finns not being part of the germanic "race" and so on, well, unless your a damn Nazi you wouldnt have a problem with that.
Sjakihata
06-18-2005, 12:11
incorrect bmolosson. originally scandinavia derives from the latin word Scandinavia or Skåne. Also the ancient icelandic word skani or skaney means skåne, Plinius (23-79) uses both words to define the nordic countries (sweden, norway and denmark). Both words are from the ancient nordic word Skaoinawjo (which also means Skåne)
we could just call the whole thing: United Nations of Thule, Thule Union ~:cheers:
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