Club G'itmo

[Gawain of Orkeny]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/illustrating_absurdity/clubgitmo.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg

http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/gitmotee_koran_big.jpg



NEW! The Club G'itmo T-Shirt - I Got My Free Koran and Prayer Rug at G'itmo
The left will throw a fit over this one. Club G'itmo logo on front. "I got my free Koran and prayer rug at Gitmo" emblazoned on back. Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!


http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/gitmotee_vegas_big.jpg


A MUST Have. Club G'itmo logo on front. "What Happens in G'itmo stays in G'itmo emblazoned on back." Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!

http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/gitmotee_2_big_rv1.jpg

Illustrate absurdity by being absurd! Wear your Club G'itmo T-shirt and drive liberals nuts. Club G'itmo logo on front. "Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad" emblazoned on back. Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes:S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!

http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/gitmotee_1_big_rv1.jpg


Illustrate absurdity by being absurd. This one will really get under the skin of the lib next-door. Club G'itmo logo on front "My Mullah went to Club G'itmo and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt" emblazoned on back. Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!


"On one occasion the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold." --Sen. Durbin

http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/jihadjavamug_big.jpg


Where do vacationing terrorists gather to talk shop? The Jihad Java Café at Club G'itmo. Detainee Orange mug w/ "Jihad Java Café" printed in white.

Available for delivery using shipping method selected on June 24th.
$16.95


Look at Rush making money off the misery of others. Its no wonder the man is filthy rich with marketing techniques like this.

[Goofball]

My, but this is in extremely poor taste.

[PanzerJaeger]

A MUST Have. Club G'itmo logo on front. "What Happens in G'itmo stays in G'itmo emblazoned on back." Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!

Ahahaa, great stuff!

*Club Gitmo - Beating the **** out of terrorists since 2002!* Id by it. ~;)

[Proletariat]

My, but this is in extremely poor taste.

Yeah. No where near as classy as the 'American Taliban' thread.

[Dâriûsh]

Perhaps Mr Limbaugh ought to spend some time in "Club G'itmo" himself.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I left out the best part. I hope this works.



Listen (http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/ClubGitmo.asx)

[Goofball]

Yeah. No where near as classy as the 'American Taliban' thread.

Yes, and one bad turn always deserves another.

:no:

I was quite circumspect when I posted in that thread because I saw the potential for conservatives/Christians to see it as nothing more than an attempt to inflame and insult. And I was right, many of our conservative members became quite incensed about the thread and one even claims to have left the Org for good.

But to act indignant about that thread, and then jump into and exult in the blatant schadenfreude of this thread is nothing short of hypocrisy.

[Goofball]

Ahahaa, great stuff!

*Club Gitmo - Beating the **** out of terrorists since 2002!* Id by it. ~;)

Yes, buy some Gotmo-wear. But I think this would make a better t-shirt or coffee mug:

http://bellaciao.org/en/IMG/jpg/gitmo-safer.jpg

[Proletariat]

And I was right, many of our conservative members became quite incensed about the thread and one even claims to have left the Org for good.

I haven't seen DD since.



But to act indignant about that thread, and then jump into and exult in the blatant schadenfreude of this thread is nothing short of hypocrisy.

Are you implying I'm doing this? I think I know who you mean, and you're absolutely right.


Let's just see if this thread gets the 'Oh, but it's tongue-in-cheek!!' treatment for three pages.

[Goofball]

Are you implying I'm doing this?

No.

:bow:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Well I ordered my Mug and the shirt that says "What Happens in G'itmo stays in G'itmo emblazoned on back." today. Their very reasonably priced.

[Byzantine Prince]

Well I ordered my Mug and the shirt that says "What Happens in G'itmo stays in G'itmo emblazoned on back." today. Their very reasonably priced.
Who are you trying to impress? lol, you're here all the time. :laugh:

[Tribesman]

one even claims to have left the Org for good.
Yes but how many times has he left before ? Between absences from leaving and absences due to bans he does miss a lot of time . He will return ~;)

[ichi]

Damn Gawain that's funny stuff

They should add horseback rides on the beach and tripsinto Cuba to shop for souvenirs

ichi ~:cheers:

[Beirut]

The problem with Gitmo, as with many aspects of the "war on terror" itself, is not that it exists, but that it is inefficient, wasteful, and slow.

Machiavelli said when you are going to hurt someone or do something bad, do it all at once and get it over with so people can forget about it and get on with other things. What's wrong with the Gitmo situation is that it is dragging on while giving, even the people it is protecting, the impression that it is wrong, embarrassing, and inefficient. Imagine what the people who really don't like the place think.

[KafirChobee]

Not sure which was first, but here's another :

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/061205.asp

The problem with Gitmo is, it is a permanent situation for all there - 'til the end of hostilities. They are without recourse, beyond any true legal system and (many) are held incognito. Even the information being gained (purportedly) is secret, and will remain so until some one with common sense is allowed to look at it.

Like the T-shirt, Gawain. ~;)

[KafirChobee]

Oops! :embarassed:

http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2005/061205.asp

:balloon2:

[JAG]

.. And to think I laughed so hard!

Anyway Gitmo is a disgrace which shows the US' BS about wanting to spread 'freedom and liberty'. It is the face of US self interest and hate for any form of international law / human rights.

It is an embarrassment for your country, but while you continue to believe it solves problems and makes your position in the world safer, you will continue to add flames to the fire rather than try and solve them. Nevermind.

[Tribesman]

.. And to think I laughed so hard!
Hey lighten up Jag , the reality can be even funnier that the spoofs .
Didn't you read some of the unclassified interrogation transcripts the Dept of Defense released 2 weeks ago ?
There was one hilarious one where the detainee said he was going to settle in the Caribbean if he was ever released and start a chicken farm , but he was concerned that the Americans would raid the farm and take away all his chickens because they may have links to Al-Qaida ... Priceless ~D ~D ~D

[JAG]

~D

Very funny, but you never know, you wouldn't put it past the US doing it, now that is even funnier. ~;)

[Xiahou]

It is an embarrassment for your country, but while you continue to believe it solves problems and makes your position in the world safer, you will continue to add flames to the fire rather than try and solve them. Nevermind.
I'll never understand the 'If you'd just be nicer to them they wouldnt hurt us' mentality. Apparently 9/11 didn't disprove that well enough for some people...

[discovery1]

A MUST Have. Club G'itmo logo on front. "What Happens in G'itmo stays in G'itmo emblazoned on back." Available in Institutional Orange only in sizes: S, M, L, XL, XXL, and now in XXXL & XXXXL!

THAT'S VEGAS' LINE! WE ARE GOING TO SUE RUSH'S ASS!



Didn't you read some of the unclassified interrogation transcripts the Dept of Defense released 2 weeks ago ?
There was one hilarious one where the detainee said he was going to settle in the Caribbean if he was ever released and start a chicken farm , but he was concerned that the Americans would raid the farm and take away all his chickens because they may have links to Al-Qaida ... Priceless
Brilliant! Even more impressive that he maintained his sense of humor there.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

THAT'S VEGAS' LINE! WE ARE GOING TO SUE RUSH'S ASS!

He mentioned that in his show today. As a matter of fact he came up with the idea for that one today on the show and has already ordered it into production and posted it in the EIB store. He is very quick ~;) Las Vegas has no copyright on that phrase. In fact thats what makes the shirt funny.

Im sure this line of clothing will continue to grow over the coming weeks. And to think he will probably make 100s of thousands of dollars off it.

[JAG]

I'll never understand the 'If you'd just be nicer to them they wouldnt hurt us' mentality. Apparently 9/11 didn't disprove that well enough for some people...

That is because you were NOT nice to them. With your dodgy deals and back stabbing behind close doors - you helped FUND AQ for **** sake - you created the problem and expanded it, 9/11 was the result. Now you do your dirty laundry in public for the 'great cause'. Nothing has changed and the thread is growing.

[PanzerJaeger]

Exactly how was helping them get rid of the soviets "not nice"?

If it werent for US deals those people would be living in even deeper dirt(or sand) than they already do.

You are right though, this is our problem(not yours) - and we are fixing it, no need for comments from the peanut gallery. ~;)



America's biggest weakness is America itself, not any self righteous socialists. The country is so soft its almost disgusting.

Considering the threat these people could pose with modern weaponry, the diet should contain a few less canned peaches and a few more canned faces.

Im afraid its going to take another 9/11 for people to realize this isnt a game. We dont have the luxury of debating how our enemies are treated with anti-american socialists.

If we really want to win this war we have to make life so horrible for all AQ and all who associate with them the mere thought of AQ will send a shiver down an arab's back even in the hottest desert.

Instead of demonstrating how well we feed this scum, we should string them up before CNN and God himself and castrate the animals. That will make Abu Nobody think twice before strapping that bomb to his camel.

[Ironside]

Pazer, what a hollow victory that would be. "The great Satan" proving by themself to be what it's said to be. Ruling by fear isn't an effective way to rule. For example, would Iran even consider to improve thier ties with the US (that seems to be an election issue) if you did this?


Instead of demonstrating how well we feed this scum, we should string them up before CNN and God himself and castrate the animals. That will make Abu Nobody think twice before strapping that bomb to his camel.

I assume that you're aware that the biggest threat to the freedom of the US is it's citizens and/or goverment, not the terrorists? :book:

[Tribesman]

If we really want to win this war we have to make life so horrible for all AQ and all who associate with them the mere thought of AQ will send a shiver down an arab's back even in the hottest desert.
If you really want to win this war then you should be a little more efficient , Of the 10s of thousands who have been detained (nearly 70,000 now) how many have been Al-Qaida ? So instead of crushing this group you have instead created a huge number of people with a genuine reason to hate America , plus you can add all their friends, family and people who just hear about it to the number .
Yesterday the Afghan government said Al-qaida presence was on the rise again in that country (they are blaming Pakistan once again for supporting this group) . Last week the Iraqi government said Al-Qaida were increasing their numbers , efforts and sophistication . The US government has now added 6 more countries to is list of African countries where Al-Qaida is present and active .
So how is progress in the fight against Al-Qaida going ? Not very well at all .

Oh and before you come back with your usual "but we have taken out 2/3 of the leadership" consult your government , on the list of the 33 identified senior figures they have accounted for 12 of them .

we should string them up before CNN and God himself and castrate the animals. That will make Abu Nobody think twice before strapping that bomb to his camel.
Possibly , but first you have to make sure you are getting the right people , so far that is not the case . So far the actions of the governments have served only as a propoganda victory and recruiting tool for the fundamentalists . If you start stringing people up without evidence rather than just locking them up without evidence you will find a hell of a lot more Abu Nobodies willing those strap that bombs to their camels .

[Xiahou]

If you really want to win this war then you should be a little more efficient , Of the 10s of thousands who have been detained (nearly 70,000 now) how many have been Al-Qaida ? So instead of crushing this group you have instead created a huge number of people with a genuine reason to hate America , plus you can add all their friends, family and people who just hear about it to the number .More spin there I think. The majority of the 'nearly 70,000' have been freed already- and I doubt anyone really thought many of them were AQ members either. What they were was most likely Taliban and Iraqi forces that were captured on the battlefield. You do realize that there is a necessity to take prisoners during warfare don't you? And again, most of these have been released, so lets not make it out like we're holding 70,000 people in 'gulags'.

Honestly, how many Germans were "detained" during WW2? Millions? With today's attitudes I'm not sure it'd be possible to prosecute a conflict like that anymore.

[King Henry V]

Exactly how was helping them get rid of the soviets "not nice"?

If it werent for US deals those people would be living in even deeper dirt(or sand) than they already do.

You are right though, this is our problem(not yours) - and we are fixing it, no need for comments from the peanut gallery. ~;)



America's biggest weakness is America itself, not any self righteous socialists. The country is so soft its almost disgusting.

Considering the threat these people could pose with modern weaponry, the diet should contain a few less canned peaches and a few more canned faces.

Im afraid its going to take another 9/11 for people to realize this isnt a game. We dont have the luxury of debating how our enemies are treated with anti-american socialists.

If we really want to win this war we have to make life so horrible for all AQ and all who associate with them the mere thought of AQ will send a shiver down an arab's back even in the hottest desert.

Instead of demonstrating how well we feed this scum, we should string them up before CNN and God himself and castrate the animals. That will make Abu Nobody think twice before strapping that bomb to his camel.

And become hated by the rest of the wrold in the process.........

[Fragony]

Well what to say, after freedom fries this is hardly a step back.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

That is because you were NOT nice to them. With your dodgy deals and back stabbing behind close doors - you helped FUND AQ for **** sake - you created the problem and expanded it, 9/11 was the result. Now you do your dirty laundry in public for the 'great cause'. Nothing has changed and the thread is growing.
We helped the Taliban rid Afghanistan of Soviet Rule, not Al Quida. And how is that bad? The Soviets were 10x worse than the Taliban, anyway, you shouldn't be talking about back stabbing, look at what your nation did *cough*1812*cough*.

[Tribesman]

The majority of the 'nearly 70,000' have been freed already-
Really , how do you know that ?

[Steppe Merc]

Kaiser, there's a bit of a difference from the actions 30 years ago and the actions 200 years ago... Besides, I don't blame the English for trying to reclaim their land. Any other government would have tried as well.

PJ, acting like barbarians would only give them more reason to hate us, this time truly justified. If many Muslims got angry at the flushing of a toilet, how do you think they would act at the torture of hundreds of innocent (yes, innocent, as none of them have been proven guilty) people?
It would legitimize their rethoric.

As Bruce Springsteen said:

"I'm just trying to survive
But if what you do to survive
Kills the things you love

Fear is a powerful thing
It can turn your heart black you can trust
It'll take your God-filled soul
Fill it with devils and dust"

Is it worth surviving if you become the evil you are fighting against? Not that our survival is actually threatned by any of those imprisoned...

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Kaiser, there's a bit of a difference from the actions 30 years ago and the actions 200 years ago... Besides, I don't blame the English for trying to reclaim their land. Any other government would have tried as well.
*cough*WWII*cough*Firebombingoflondon*cough*treatyofversailles*cough*

[doc_bean]

America's biggest weakness is America itself, not any self righteous socialists. The country is so soft its almost disgusting.


I agree, one or two terrorist attacks and you're willing to comprise your precious freedom for a security that can never be guaranteed completely.

[PanzerJaeger]

Pazer, what a hollow victory that would be. "The great Satan" proving by themself to be what it's said to be. Ruling by fear isn't an effective way to rule.


And become hated by the rest of the wrold in the process.........


PJ, acting like barbarians would only give them more reason to hate us, this time truly justified. If many Muslims got angry at the flushing of a toilet, how do you think they would act at the torture of hundreds of innocent (yes, innocent, as none of them have been proven guilty) people?
It would legitimize their rethoric.


You guys dont seem to get it.. they already hate us!

Weve been trying to play the nice guys since 9/11 and what has it gotten us-more hatred?

Whether we are being bashed by mullahs over a Koran that wasnt even flushed - or by our own senators(democratic) calling us Nazis for playing the music at Gitmo too loud - these people will never hear anything good about America.

The only logical recourse, since both the leaders of the Arab world and our own fifth column here in america dont want to do anything but present the worst possible picture of America is to fight a real war.

It would be different if anyone was really interested in giving a true depiction of how America is trying to conduct itself - but its become fashionable in Europe to simply bash America all the time(and of course the liberals in America who want nothing more than to make us a part of Europe copy/paste European opinions), and of course in the arab world the leaders use America as an excuse for their own bad leadership.

We lost the hearts and minds long before this war started - sad but true.

[Fragony]

You guys dont seem to get it.. they already hate us!


Yup, that is the bitter truth.

[Lazul]

You guys dont seem to get it.. they already hate us!

well, how would you change that? It seams as tho you mean that since they allready hate you, you cant change it, so then the only way is to kill 'em all.
So in your mind, a total destruction of the Middle East is the only way to solve the problem!?
or am I wrong?

[Tribesman]

The only logical recourse, since both the leaders of the Arab world and our own fifth column here in america dont want to do anything but present the worst possible picture of America is to fight a real war.
Since they have been unable to bring the 2 latest little wars to a satisfactory conclusion yet , how do you propose to fight a "real" war ? nuke every country with a Muslim population ? Lock everyone in camps if they are of the wrong religeon . Lets all hear a big cheer for genocide ~:confused:
You guys dont seem to get it.. they already hate us! ~D ~D ~D
There was a great interview a couple of weeks back by one of the Saudi Princes . Basically it went "Why do Americans feel that everyone hates them ? America is a wonderful country , Americans are very nice people , a few radicals hate America , most people just have criticisms of some of Americas foriegn policies ."

[PanzerJaeger]

well, how would you change that? It seams as tho you mean that since they allready hate you, you cant change it, so then the only way is to kill 'em all


Youre on the right track. I dont advocate killing them all as much as I advocate removing their ability to endanger Americans. That means no visas into the US, no anti-american governments, and no middle eastern militaries.

The only way I see to win this war is to occupy the entire middle east and make the people there so fearful and yet so dependent on the US they wouldnt think about harming us. It will be possible soon with very few casualties with the latest military weaponry being developed.

I wish I could sit here and say "If we only give them more money and reach out to them, theyll stop hating us" - but thats BS. The mullahs will continue to blame the condition of the arab people on the US and people like Jag will continue to give them fuel for the fire.

[doc_bean]

Youre on the right track. I dont advocate killing them all as much as I advocate removing their ability to endanger Americans. That means no visas into the US, no anti-american governments, and no middle eastern militaries.


The only way I see to win this war is to occupy the entire middle east and make the people there so fearful and yet so dependent on the US they wouldnt think about harming us. It will be possible soon with very few casualties with the latest military weaponry being developed.



You can't even keep a little country like Iraq in check, how are you going to do that with the entire Middle East ?

Besides, no regime is really anti-US (North Korea might be, worry about them), the people don't like the Great Satan much, but the regimes recognize the need for the US. If you want peace there, if you want to end terrorism, it's the people you need to worry about. Even if they wanted no Middle eastern country could pose a military threath to the US (again, North Korea might).

You can't scare those people into following your line, it won't work, they will fight, they will suffer, they will die, and they'll do it with a smile.




I wish I could sit here and say "If we only give them more money and reach out to them, theyll stop hating us" - but thats BS. The mullahs will continue to blame the condition of the arab people on the US and people like Jag will continue to give them fuel for the fire.

Leave them alone. Don Corleone suggested it too, let the US worry about the US, let the rest of the world take care of it's own problems. Stop being the world police. Stop giving money to foreign regimes. Stop supporting Israel, they've got enough weapons to take care of themselves.

How long can they keeping hating an enemy that isn't there ?

[Xiahou]

The majority of the 'nearly 70,000' have been freed already-
Really , how do you know that ?
It seems to be pretty common knowledge. Even CBS New (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/16/terror/main680658.shtml) has reported that.

Some 65,000 prisoners have been taken during the U.S.-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, although most have been freed.

[Sir Moody]

and how long is a peice of string?

Most is usually a term used to pedle an idea as Most could be anything

out of 65000 how much is "Most"

[PanzerJaeger]

You can't even keep a little country like Iraq in check, how are you going to do that with the entire Middle East ?

LoL - how much threat does Iraq pose to the US? Not to mention I am not talking about politically correct war.


You can't scare those people into following your line, it won't work, they will fight, they will suffer, they will die, and they'll do it with a smile.

The way we are fighting the war today - no. The only thing keeping us from completely destroying the insurgency is our desire to help the iraqis out. If we werent so worried about rebuilding that country and making it into a democracy, our weaponry could render the nation harmless for decades to come.

And what do we get for actually being caring and trying to help a former enemy? More hatred.


Leave them alone. Don Corleone suggested it too, let the US worry about the US, let the rest of the world take care of it's own problems. Stop being the world police. Stop giving money to foreign regimes. Stop supporting Israel, they've got enough weapons to take care of themselves.

What was America doing to the arabs before 9/11, besides pumping money into their countries? What we do with Israel, our friend, is really none of their business.

In fact, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait begged us to come into the middle east and defend them against Iraq..

I dont know how we could have been any more generous.

[Proletariat]

I dont know how we could have been any more generous.

Bosnia says hello.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

that's right: Bosnia;

The situations where the whole of Nato decided to blame the Serbs for everything and then bomb them, lots, a few years later.
That was basically done in the name of trying to help Muslims.
That war saw incredible nastiness on all sides yet Nato chose to pick a side. They chose the only side that had a great deal of hatred for the west anyway, Good job. Kill, alienate and demonise your friends and lionise those who hate you.

*shakes head*

that whole thing was F'ed up.

[doc_bean]

LoL - how much threat does Iraq pose to the US? Not to mention I am not talking about politically correct war.

None of the countries pose a threat, Iraq never even did.





What was America doing to the arabs before 9/11, besides pumping money into their countries? What we do with Israel, our friend, is really none of their business.


I'm afraid that's the problem though, without Israel we wouldn't be in this mess. The Israeli took over muslim territory, the US helped them out. Everyone is screwed a few decades later.



In fact, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait begged us to come into the middle east and defend them against Iraq..

I dont know how we could have been any more generous.

Bleh, they should have solved their own problems. You have an obligation to NATO and a few other countries because of international agreements, whether or not you should try to get out of those is your business. The US shouldn't be the world police.

The UN was formed to try and be the world police, but well, we all know how that is working out. Again, not the concern of the US.

And might I add, you really are ruthless, you'd kill millions of people, imprison thousands of others and destroy entire countries so a few people can feel save, just because they happen to live in the US. It's an interesting perspective.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

if people are so concerned about Muslim land in Israel why don't you also complain about the loss of almost all of the Christian Arab communities in Palestine? There used to be loads. Now, between the Israelis and the Muslims they've almost all left.

[PanzerJaeger]

None of the countries pose a threat, Iraq never even did.

Oh really - Ask George H. W. Bush - he may disagree. Saddam had a whole country and billions of dollars at his disposal, was actively attacking American forces, supported terrorists, and tried to have national leaders assassinated.. thats a threat in my book.


I'm afraid that's the problem though, without Israel we wouldn't be in this mess. The Israeli took over muslim territory, the US helped them out. Everyone is screwed a few decades later.

When was that ever muslim territory. I believe it was British and the UN gave it to the Israelis.


Bleh, they should have solved their own problems. You have an obligation to NATO and a few other countries because of international agreements, whether or not you should try to get out of those is your business. The US shouldn't be the world police.

Who said we were the world police. .we act when our national security is threatened or when the world community asks us to help.


The UN was formed to try and be the world police, but well, we all know how that is working out. Again, not the concern of the US.

I dont believe in the UN but Korea and Iraq 1 were good causes.


And might I add, you really are ruthless, you'd kill millions of people, imprison thousands of others and destroy entire countries so a few people can feel save, just because they happen to live in the US. It's an interesting perspective.

Oh Im ruthless? Your the one who would leave the Kuwaitis and Saudis to Saddam. Your the one who would have America abandon her obligations around the world. I never advocated killing millions - only dissolving arab governments and armies in the mideast. It doesnt look like youve got much of a high horse to be preaching from. ~:rolleyes:

[Tribesman]

~;) LoL - how much threat does Iraq pose to the US?
~D ~D ~D it seems to be a much bigger threat now than it was before the invasion doesn't it . It is certainly killing and maiming a lot more Americans (and others) than it ever did under Saddam .
Now you are stuck with probably another 5 years of losing lives and money or climbing into the helicopters and running with your tail between your legs like Vietnam .
Though you have to respect Bush (did I really write that ~;) ) with his statement this weekend that withdrawing isn't an option and setting a timetable would be counterproductive .
So send lots more troops in and sort out the mess you created and do it now .

Still there is some great progress being made , what with the huge effort to finally secure the capital outside the green zone years after the end of the "war" and the big offensive in the western desert , they managed to lose control of another city . But thats OK they can always do another Fallujah can't they !!!

edited after reading this
When was that ever muslim territory.
:dizzy2: well it was only Muslim territory for a little while wasn't it , but hell whats a few centuries matter anyway ? Empires come and Empires go . Though with your plans for world domination maybe its the start of a new Empire Panzer ~D ~D ~D Oh BTW it was never British territory .

[Steppe Merc]

if people are so concerned about Muslim land in Israel why don't you also complain about the loss of almost all of the Christian Arab communities in Palestine? There used to be loads. Now, between the Israelis and the Muslims they've almost all left.
Why? Because Isreal actually has a government that is actively persecuting the Palestinians and we are actively helping them kill those innocecents. And Christian communites were sadly persecuted starting a long time ago, around the Crusades. From what I understand, it wasn't really a new thing, though I may be wrong.


Who said we were the world police. .we act when our national security is threatened or when the world community asks us to help.
National security was never threatned by Iraq. What can he have done? Nothing.
And world community? What is that? A few countries that the government decides to listen to while ignoring those that are against the war? Make up your mind: do you want to listen to the rest of the world or not? Cause it can't be both.


When was that ever muslim territory. I believe it was British and the UN gave it to the Israelis.
It was Muslim terrotory going back for hundreds of years. The way I see it, Isrealis got it only because they got kicked out of it thousands of years ago. Not great claims, if you ask me.

PJ, conquering terrotories would never work. You think they pose a risk and hate us now? They will kill, and fight until either they are dead or all the soldiers we have are. That would be a worse sink hole than Nam. The only way to stop the hatred is to stop helping Isreal, actually get the Iraqi and Afgani governments up and running independently, and leave.

Invasion will help nothing. It will cost countless of more innocent lives, including Americans.

[Xiahou]

and how long is a peice of string?

Most is usually a term used to pedle an idea as Most could be anything

out of 65000 how much is "Most"
Most, as in a majority. As in more than 80%.

Here's (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/03/30/national/w050735S04.DTL) and article stating that roughly 10,500 prisoners are being held in Iraq and 500 in Afghanistan. It's easy to google for this stuff if you really want to know.

[Steppe Merc]

~D

Sorry, I just got a kick out of that. I don't doubt you or your sources, but us at Europa Barborum mod recently got challenged multiple times on sources because they didn't turn up on google. So whenever I hear google and sources, I just find it funny.
However in this case, it probably is valid, but not all on the internet ought to be taken on face value, which I'm sure everyone here knows.

[Blodrast]

LoL - how much threat does Iraq pose to the US? Not to mention I am not talking about politically correct war.

so Iraq is not a threat to the US...



Quote:
None of the countries pose a threat, Iraq never even did.

Oh really - Ask George H. W. Bush - he may disagree. Saddam had a whole country and billions of dollars at his disposal, was actively attacking American forces, supported terrorists, and tried to have national leaders assassinated.. thats a threat in my book.


oh, wait - I mean, yes it is !
:dizzy2:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

so Iraq is not a threat to the US...

Not anymore. It is however a huge threat to all the Muslim fundementalists in the nations surrounding it and their governments. Hence the invasion by them called by you europeans and those on the left here an insurgency.

[Xiahou]

~D

Sorry, I just got a kick out of that. I don't doubt you or your sources, but us at Europa Barborum mod recently got challenged multiple times on sources because they didn't turn up on google. So whenever I hear google and sources, I just find it funny.
However in this case, it probably is valid, but not all on the internet ought to be taken on face value, which I'm sure everyone here knows.My only point was that it was easy to google for the information- not that if you can't find it in google it doesnt exist or isnt true... that's stupid. Conversely, just because you can find something on google doesnt make it true- common sense applies there I think. The link I posted was to an AP news story however, not some tinfoil hat kook site.

[Lemur]

Hence the invasion by them called by you europeans and those on the left here an insurgency.
Here are some leftie folks using the word "insurgency":

"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." Dick Cheney, May 31st, 2005.

"There's still an insurgency, but there's a lot of progress." Dick Cheney, June 14th, 2005.

"I think the Iraq government will be up to the task of defeating the insurgents. I think they dealt the insurgents." George W. Bush, May 31st, 2005.

"The insurgency is very violent but you defeat insurgencies not just militarily . . . you defeat them by having a political alternative that is strong." Codoleeza Rice, May 15th, 2005.

Looky, I didn't even have to look back more than a month. Funny to see these left-wing nutjobs calling it an insurgency, when they ought to be using Gawain's term, "invasion." If we didn't have a bunch of weak-kneed liberals running the Presidency, the Vice Presidency, the State Department ...

Hey, wait a minute. They aren't liberals. They're conservatives. And, wait, they're using the word "insurgency," even though Gawain told us that only Euroweenies and tree-hugging pot-smokers use it ...

Gawain, you leave me all confused. Is everybody but you a liberal? Is Dick Cheney too left for your taste these days?

[Steppe Merc]

No, I know. I was just saying. ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Gawain, you leave me all confused. Is everybody but you a liberal? Is Dick Cheney too left for your taste these days?

Oh come on. Its just another case of PC gone to far and the power of the press. They refer to it so often as an insurgency that everyone calls it that. Who was it said that if you tell a lie often enough people will believe it? You know like claiming to be Palestinains. The last time I checked an insurgency was an organized rebellion aimed at overthrowing a constituted government through the use of subversion and armed conflict . Fighters from another country do not constitute an insurgency.

[Spetulhu]

Quote:
so Iraq is not a threat to the US...


Not anymore. It is however a huge threat to all the Muslim fundementalists in the nations surrounding it and their governments. Hence the invasion by them called by you europeans and those on the left here an insurgency.

Funny, I was under the impression that Saddam cared nothing for religion. It's only now that religious parties are getting power in Iraq.

[KafirChobee]

This posting certainly went sideways ... in a heart beat.

I would be curious where JP gets his "historic" facts, or re-re-revisionist hostory of the Middle-East. But, he's young and there is hope that once he begins to actually experience things beyond his driveway he may alter his perspective on issues. Then again, I don't really care.

Balfour (agreement), 234, 278 UN resolutions, etc. Still, the Jewish take over of the present state of Israel was not exactly legal. Even "Exodus" (Uris' book) which is highly biased - points out that the Christian, Jew, and Muslim communities of that area were peaceful - and had been for centuries. Until the displaced European survivors of Auscwitz (ms? etc) joined the radicals there to steal a homeland. Without America's acknowledement of Israel as being a nation - it may have never been a reality.

That is why the arab community distrusts the US. We seem to side with anyone that opposes them. And, after the Israel became a "fact" - and the displacement of countless Muslims from their historical (family homes and farms, without compensation) we simply ignored them. Then wondered why they were upset. Gee, wouldn't you want your child growing up in a permanent refugee camp?

Iraq, is our latest follie in how not to gain the hearts and minds of a people our leaders neither comprehend, nor care to. They ignore, silence or erase anyone that actually understands the history and situation of the region.

Somewhere along the line we lost our talent for diplomacy without showing off our guns. A nation cannot gain the trust needed to attain a true peace, if at every opportunity they are rolling out their tanks for their solution to every problem.

The other day I saw where nearly 70% of Americans want all our soldiers home within the next two years. It is beginning to look alot like another quagmire we went into; blind about the culture, religion, history, mores, attitudes, or social systems. We just assume everyone wants to be like us. They don't. We just believe democracy is the cutest little thing, and ought to be mandatory for all other nations ('cept the dictatorships under our control). Some do, but they would appreciate it if we allowed them to find their form of it, in their own time and ways.

Americans have never been known for their patience (not since WWII, anyway). We have become an instant gratification society. Get it done, NOW! Give me, NOW! It is simply the way we have become.

Americans have never done anything wrong. Well, maybe a few did - but, they were a minority - and had they known they would be caught, they wouldn't have done it. See, we all be the true moralists for the world. When is the world going to learn this simple, honest fact?

Americans have never made a mistake either. 'nam was really the French guys fault. Todays fubar is , er ... Saddams. Yeah, that's the ticket. Not us, always someone else - that forced us to take action (drop bombs, run tanks through their fields, kill a bunch of 'em). But, America never makes a mistake - or has to say "we're sorry".

:balloon2:

[PanzerJaeger]

I would be curious where JP gets his "historic" facts, or re-re-revisionist hostory of the Middle-East. But, he's young and there is hope that once he begins to actually experience things beyond his driveway he may alter his perspective on issues. Then again, I don't really care.

Just out of curiosity, how many countries have you been to? Oh, besides Vietnam - its sort of hard to not know youve been there since you bring it up in every post to try and garner some kind of sympathetic respect to give your rants more weight. Its kind of strange really, because we have other Vietnam vets here on the forum yet their arguments stand on their own - no flashbacks required. ~:rolleyes:

[Tribesman]

no flashbacks required
Errr . no flashbacks in that post Panzer , whats up ? if you can't attack the points in the post attack the poster ? :embarassed:

[Tribesman]

Fighters from another country do not constitute an insurgency.
So Gawain , since there are a number of different groups everyone should refer to insurgents , loyalists , religeous/ethnic/political seperatists and foriegn terrorists every time they talk about Iraq . Oh yes and add in local criminal elements just for good measure . ~:cheers:

[doc_bean]

Oh really - Ask George H. W. Bush - he may disagree. Saddam had a whole country and billions of dollars at his disposal, was actively attacking American forces, supported terrorists, and tried to have national leaders assassinated.. thats a threat in my book.

He could have never attacked to US. He knew you were coming back however, he tried to be prepared, he failed miserably.




When was that ever muslim territory. I believe it was British and the UN gave it to the Israelis.


Since the Prophet himself, or just about I guess. It might have belonged to other nations in name, but there were still muslims living there, working their land and praying to Allah. Israel drove them out of their homes and took their land, and keeps expanding to this day.


Who said we were the world police. .we act when our national security is threatened or when the world community asks us to help.




Oh Im ruthless? Your the one who would leave the Kuwaitis and Saudis to Saddam. Your the one who would have America abandon her obligations around the world. I never advocated killing millions - only dissolving arab governments and armies in the mideast. It doesnt look like youve got much of a high horse to be preaching from. ~:rolleyes:


The way we are fighting the war today - no. The only thing keeping us from completely destroying the insurgency is our desire to help the iraqis out. If we werent so worried about rebuilding that country and making it into a democracy, our weaponry could render the nation harmless for decades to come..



The only way I see to win this war is to occupy the entire middle east and make the people there so fearful and yet so dependent on the US they wouldnt think about harming us. It will be possible soon with very few casualties with the latest military weaponry being developed.

You seem to be in favor of taking away all their rights at self government, removing all anti-government (yours) thought and want to do this using force.

Is this so different from what Saddam was doing ?

[PanzerJaeger]

Errr . no flashbacks in that post Panzer , whats up ? if you can't attack the points in the post attack the poster ?

Thats not a very even-handed opinion Tribesman considering he attacked me first. At least my response was factual, albeit a bit insulting.. ~;)

[Tribesman]

At least my response was factual,
Factual ? Well lets see shall we ?......nope no flashbacks in the post so that bit cannot be factual can it
Thats not a very even-handed opinion Tribesman considering he attacked me first.
Since when do you expect me to be even handed ? that wouldn't be a very good way to stir the progress of discussion would it ~:cheers:
Sorry Panzer , but I thought you believed in respecting the views of veterans who have seen combat service defending your adoptive country . Or does that courtesy only extend to back room soldiers hundreds of miles away from actual combat that keep on telling you how they could have won the war and how you can win the next one ?

[PanzerJaeger]

LoL im not one to let an attack go without response. ~;)

In any event I lost any respect for him after he questioned another veteran's record because he was conservative. Thats pretty low in my book.

[GoreBag]

Ahem. Back to the topic at hand.

Funny shirts. I'd get one, but they're not really my flavour. www.tshirthell.com had some good ones, but they took down the "worse than hell" section.

[KafirChobee]

This posting certainly went sideways ... in a heart beat.

I would be curious where PJ gets his "historic" facts, or re-re-revisionist history of the Middle-East. But, he's young and there is hope that once he begins to actually experience things beyond his driveway he may alter his perspective on issues. Then again, I don't really care.

(edited for spelling errors)
:balloon2:

What attack? I asked a question. If the only means by which you have to answer it is by ignoring the question, and lashing out at the presentor - then please, next time ignore it completely and remain silent.

As someone once said, "It is wiser to remain silent and let them think you a fool, than open your mouth and confirm it". Or, words to that affect.

:bow:

[Xiahou]

I would be curious where PJ gets his "historic" facts, or re-re-revisionist history of the Middle-East. But, he's young and there is hope that once he begins to actually experience things beyond his driveway he may alter his perspective on issues. Then again, I don't really care.
So you're saying that was a sincere question? I thought you were trying to say he was naive and immature- guess I read it wrong....

[Tribesman]

I lost any respect for him after he questioned another veteran's record because he was conservative. Thats pretty low in my book.
(cough) John Kerry (cough) ~D ~D ~D

[PanzerJaeger]

(cough) John Kerry (cough)

What John Kerry did is a great example of what Kafir does constantly.

He used his veteran status to embolden his political ideology, just as Kafir "reports for duty" in threads and claims some superior knowledge simply because he went through Vietnam. And when another veteran challenged his stance, all he could do was question that veteran's military record. Pathetic. :no:


I would be curious where JP gets his "historic" facts, or re-re-revisionist hostory of the Middle-East. But, he's young and there is hope that once he begins to actually experience things beyond his driveway he may alter his perspective on issues. Then again, I don't really care.

Not a personal attack - right. ~:rolleyes:

And like his hero Mr. Kerry - he backpeddles when someone challenges him with his own words. "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

[doc_bean]

On a side note, now that John Kerry's records have been released, where the Swift boat veterans right or wrong ?

[KafirChobee]

What John Kerry did is a great example of what Kafir does constantly.

He used his veteran status to embolden his political ideology, just as Kafir "reports for duty" in threads and claims some superior knowledge simply because he went through Vietnam. And when another veteran challenged his stance, all he could do was question that veteran's military record. Pathetic. :no:

Not a personal attack - right. ~:rolleyes:

And like his hero Mr. Kerry - he backpeddles when someone challenges him with his own words. "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

Say what? What does John Kerry have to do with G'itmo? And where did I bring up my veteran status in this discussion?? Or, when did I ever claim hero status? Or, question another vets military record (aside from Bush43's)?

Still, if that is how you interpret me ... fine. I recall using personal experience, but I don't recall ever saying that because of those experiences they made my political perceptions an absolute for all to adhere to. I have said that one's experiences make them what they are. Go experience a few negative ones, or even better walk in the other mans shoes first before flying off your holyier than tho couch.

Put yourself in a man at Gitmo, held without the hope of trial or even the need for judicial justification. A place where the FBI has stated that torture is a routine occurance and that the Koran has been degraded in front of prisoners to force confessions.

Gee, what a great place.
:furious3:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Put yourself in a man at Gitmo, held without the hope of trial or even the need for judicial justification. A place where the FBI has stated that torture is a routine occurance and that the Koran has been degraded in front of prisoners to force confessions.

Where do you get this crap from?



First of all, any talk about mistreatment of the Gitmo prisoners is complete and utter BS. These are without a doubt the best-treated enemy combatants that have ever been fortunate to be captured by a compassionate country. Any talk of a gulag in Gitmo is 100% pure bullshit and lies as the backpedaling of those insufferable, lying weasels at Amnesty International proves.

Secondly, while we're on the subject of enemy combatants, these folks are exactly that. All this talk of their rights under the Geneva Convention, due process and the poor saps not having been charged with anything yet is ridiculous drivel meant to divert the uninformed and the non-thinkers among us from the fact that these folks -- all 500 hundred of them -- are terrorists who were plotting against our country and would like nothing more than to see us all dead. We're treating them far better than they deserve even now.

LINK (http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=389)


Conservatives tout Gitmo cuisine
By Alexa Moutevelis

June 20, 2005

(CNSNews.com) -- Conservatives angered by the frequent calls of congressional Democrats and anti-war activists to close down the military prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, are conducting an unusual counter-attack.

Inspired by California Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter, bloggers from Dummocrats.com have created "The Gitmo Cookbook" to emphasize the high quality of life for prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay facility.

Speaking on Fox News Sunday June 11, Hunter said the criticism of how the U.S. is handling terrorist suspects prompted him to send "for the menu from Guantanamo, so that the average American could understand how we're brutalizing people" at the prison.

"For Sunday, they're going to be having -- let me see -- orange glazed chicken, fresh fruit grupe, steamed peas and mushrooms, rice pilaf -- another form of torture for the hijackers," Hunter said.

"We treat them very well," he added in response to suggestions that the detention center should be shut down.

The Dummocrats.com website picked up on Hunter's theme.

"If you're tired of all the torture allegations, of hearing the media imply that handling a Quran without gloves on is the moral equivalent of beheading someone, and of all the hysteria about enemy combatants, you'll enjoy the Gitmo Cookbook," the website states.

The book "contains the actual recipes and menus for the food served to the Gitmo detainees, along with interesting facts about how American soldiers are working every day to treat prisoners humanely while still getting the information we need to protect ourselves."

Conservatives were infuriated by the recent remarks of U.S. Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), who went on the floor of the Senate to compare the alleged abuses at Guantanamo Bay to the atrocities committed by the Nazis during World War II, the Stalin regime's network of "gulags" in the former Soviet Union and the Cambodian regime of Pol Pot during the Vietnam era.

During his appearance on Fox News Sunday, Hunter pointed to what he said were exaggerations on the part of Guantanamo Bay prison critics. Giving the prisoners MREs (Meals Ready to Eat), the same food that soldiers are eating, "is considered actually to be a form of abuse," Hunter said.

Laura Curtis, contributing author for Dummocrats and the cookbook, told Cybercast News Service that "this is the exact food that our troops get. The only difference is that, for the detainees, it's halal. The Muslim-approved meat has to be prepared a certain way and the animals have to be slaughtered a certain way."

She also noted that the proceeds of the Gitmo Cookbook will go to a charity of the Guantanamo troops' choice.

Talk radio host Rush Limbaugh has been having fun with the idea of a "Club G'itmo," implying that prisoners are staying in conditions comparable to a Caribbean resort. Limbaugh calls Club G'itmo, "Your tropical retreat from the stress of jihad."

But Democratic political operative Donna Brazile was not amused, telling CNN's Inside Politics on Wednesday "that to try to describe Gitmo Bay as some kind of spa, some kind of resort is foolish.

"It is a place that was set up and designed to hold people for an indefinite period of time, to torture them, to try to get information out of them and to keep them behind bars until the United States figures out what to do with them," Brazile said.

Curtis countered that "this is not a terrible thing that is going on. They are being treated humanely. And they are the enemy. I think we are treating them a lot better than they would treat us. The way the media is treating Gitmo is ridiculous."

Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service


HARRISBURG -- The Guantanamo Bay lockup that houses "enemies of the United States" probably offers better conditions than half of the prisons in Pennsylvania, U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said Friday.

The Gitmo prisoners captured in Afghanistan -- some of whom are associated with al-Qaida -- have been treated well for the most part, said Santorum, R-Penn Hills.

"We give them prayer mats, prayer shawls, prayer outfits and Qurans," Santorum said.

The U.S. spends five times more on specialty food for the 540 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay than Florida spends for its inmates, the senator said.


Santorum noted there have been "aberrations" of mistreatment at the "brand-new $100 million" facility.

Detained there "are suicide bombers and organizers of suicide bombers," Santorum said. They are "people who want to blow up aircraft in the air, take down buildings and destroy the U.S."

Santorum's comments come as Democrats in the U.S. Senate have called on President Bush to close the facility at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba and as Congress wrestles with what rights to afford the detainees. Santorum made the remarks on a visit to the state Capitol yesterday.

Congress is working toward defining the inmates' rights "short of legal status," Santorum said, noting that detainees have no rights under the Geneva Conventions.

"However, we have standards as the United States of America" and ethical considerations, he said.

"They are clearly enemies of the United States. Of 200 released from this facility, six have been recaptured on the battlefield. One headed up an operation to kidnap Chinese journalists," Santorum said. "We have an obligation to protect the public, and Guantanamo Bay is serving that purpose."

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Exciting news. A new product. ~D


http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/products/clubgitmoPOLO2_BIG.JPG


All New! Club G'itmo Polo

In institutional orange featuring the Club G'itmo logo, embroidered on the left chest. 100% cotton picque, short-sleeved with 3 button placket, ribbed collar and cuffs, and double needle top stitching. Available in sizes M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL and XXXXL.



Available for delivery using shipping method selected on July 1st.



Rush says this is the hotest line of stuff hes ever had. Better hurry and get them while you can. Sure to be a collectors item. ~D

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Cant keep up to demand and making obsecne profits on these poor tewrrorists


This whole program takes Rick Warren's concept and builds on it. Let me get back to what she's written here. "Warren isn't a bad guy - he may be selling low-carb scripture but basically the message is service to humankind and there's nothing wrong with that." Then she quotes from our website: "Due to the extraordinary demand for G'itmo merchandise, shipment of overnight and 2nd day orders will be delayed for 2-4 days." We are still being overrun with requests for Club G'itmo gear. So she ends this piece by asking this question: "What are you doing with the money, Rush? What's your purpose in life?" Deanne, here's what we're doing with the money. We are paying for the merchandise that we're buying. We are paying for the shipping of the merchandise that other people buy. We have some other expenses, but after all the expenses are finished, what's left over is profit, and we're keeping it. It may be a strange concept to others, but we're keeping it. It's called profit. We took a risk here. We went into the business of manufacturing some Club G'itmo gear. We offered it for sale. We didn't know if it would work or not. It's working out. So we're reaping the rewards of taking the risk. Now, what am I doing with the money that I keep? Deanne, if you have to ask, if you have to dig deep to find out whether or not this is a charitable program, go talk to the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society of America, or go talk to the Marine Corps Law Enforcement scholarship people.

OMG hes keeping his profit. What will he resort to next?

LINK (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_070805/content/club_gitmo.)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

A new branch of club Gitmo has opened. Its club gitmo east located in Iraq

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/illustrating_absurdity/clubgitmoeast.Par.0001.ImageFile.jpg


This stuff is flying off the shelves.

[PanzerJaeger]

:laugh4:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Buissiness is booming. New products being added but its hard to keep up to demand.

NEW! Club G'itmo Car Flag
http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/Products/gitmocarflag_big.JPG
Drive across the fruited plain flying your Club G'itmo Car Flag: Durable knit polyester car flag, hooks on to car windows. Each measures 11 3/4" high x 14" wide on a 20 1/2" white vinyl mast, and features our best-selling Club G'itmo tag line: "Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad."

THIS NEW ITEM WILL BEGIN SHIPPING THE WEEK OF AUGUST 1ST
$21.95

NEW! Club G'itmo Soap-On-A-Rope
http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/Products/gitmosoap_big.jpg
What first class resort doesn't have soap on a rope? Club G'itmo Soap-On-A-Rope Set: 2 bars of Club G'itmo soap measuring 4" wide x 2" tall x approx 1" thick.

THIS NEW ITEM WILL BEGIN SHIPPING THE WEEK OF AUGUST 1ST.
$16.95

NEW! Jihad Java Cafe Travel Mug
http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/images/Products/travelmug_big.jpg
By popular demand! Jihad Java Cafe Travel Mug: Everybody's favorite mug in a 15 oz. travel version! Navy imprint on a bright acrylic orange exterior with stainless steel liner.

THIS NEW ITEM WILL BEGIN SHIPPING THE WEEK OF AUGUST 1ST.
$18.95

Hats and shirts are starting to get backlogged. If you want these new products please order in advance as demand will be large. ~D

[Franconicus]

This is the entertainment that is wainting there:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,365294,00.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/d20050714report.pdf

Enjoy your holidays!

[Hurin_Rules]

Just for the historical record:

Palestine was Muslim land from the initial spread of Islam there in the middle of the 7th century until the British and French carved up sections of the Ottoman empire in the early 20th century. The one brief interlude was during the Crusades, 1099-1187 (with some of the coastal cities hanging on until the fall of Acre in 1291). So, about 1,000 years or so.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So what. ~:cheers:

[Tribesman]

A new branch of club Gitmo has opened. Its club gitmo east located in Iraq
Nice picture , is it part of the winning hearts and minds initiative ?

[Dâriûsh]

I guess the Abu Ghraib clothes were all sold out.