Can't buy an ambush....

[Marquis of Roland]

Has anyone ever played an ambush?

I've played 4 factions now and I can never seem to get into an ambush. I've set my armies up right by the road in the woods (the damn game even says "ready to ambush") but no AI ever goes that way. Right when I move my army out of the woods, they all come back the same damn road. It is very annoying.

I also have never been ambushed by the AI. I even tried invading that booney province, I think it was called hyperboria or something, the place with the amazon chariots. Someone said they will always ambush you when moving through the woods to get there but no, they were all in their city.

Need some help here. I don't have any patches by the way.

P.S.
How do you use seige equipment (rams, sap point, ladders, etc.) in a custom battle? Maybe I'm not seeing something here or just plain dumb, but......

[professorspatula]

When attempting ambushes in the woods, try leaving a couple of weak peasants or expendable troops out in the open further down the road, so that an enemy army thinking of attacking your decoys will have to go through the ambush first. I actually managed to get that working twice in a row. Sadly, the ambush still failed.

[bEDEVERE]

I have been ambushed by rebels when I have been making a bee line for the gauls. You need to bait the trap.

[CMcMahon]

I had a single chariot general get ambushed by a pair of rebel peasants. Needless to say, the fact that they were surrounding me didn't help them much.

[Marquis of Roland]

If I bait the trap but an AI unit "sees" my army going into the woods would they still attack, or do I have to hide them while they're not looking?

Will the AI go for this on all difficulty levels (I'm playing H/H)?

How did you lose an ambush? I was under the impression that the ambushed army doesn't get to deploy, they're just in a long column and you start on both their flanks? That is how ambush is different from regular battle right?

[Colovion]

never

[Spartiate]

If you want ambushes then download the "Hannibals War" sub-mod for the RTR mod.I got ambushed about a dozen times in total in Iberia and Gaul.

[Nelson]

I have been ambushed exactly once. I have never gotten the drop on the AI.

[Garvanko]

Same here.

[magnum]

Ambuses rarely occured in v1.1 and earlier. In v1.2 its a little easier. Spies and towers can affect the chance of ambushing. In addition there are leader traits the can add +/- to the chance.

As far as what happens when an ambush occurs, there are 3 possibilities (that I'm aware of).

1) The target walked into the ambush but it failed, normal setup/start.

2) The target walked into the ambush and it was partially succesful. The defender gets a smaller box to set their unit up in. (Not much of a difference to #1 if you ask me.)

3) The target starts in column mode and the ambusher gets to set up their units all around them. There is still a distance between the defender and attacker as normal, the attacker simply gets to see the defenders units and set up his units on either side.

Now just because you pulled off a #3 type ambush does not mean you're going to win. I pulled one off that was about the reverse of CMcMahons example. I had 1 general, 3 Hastiti, and 1 Velites. The Brits had 3 chariot units and 3 warbands. Being able to set up on both sides of him didn't do me much good. AI simply charge all his army at one side of my ambush and destroyed them, then turned around and charged the other side.

Personally, I think there ought to be more bonuses/advantages to pulling off #3. Definately a moral penalty on the defender and possibly as much as an attack and/or defense penalty. Would have to try it out to see about balance.
Oh well, even in v1.2 ambushes don't occur often enough to worry to much about it.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

Dozens of campaigns, never been nor seen an ambush. File under "features" that were either poorly implemented or under developed. Take your pick. ~;)

[professorspatula]

Your chances to be ambushed (as opposed to ambush others) depends largely on where your units are though. In my Numidian campaign, I expanded into Spain which is mostly forests. I had so few men and resources, that I often had to send in just a few units at a time to reinforce my various forces across Spain. And time after time, these small armies were ambushed by rebels hiding in trees across the very roads I had to send my men through. I didn't have the manpower to wipe out the rebels either so they became a real nightmare for a while. Out in the deserts and steppes though, ambushes are rarer than seeing examples of good battlefield AI.

It would be nicer to have more ambushes though,and the current system is a bit poor in that respect. I think part of the problem is your ability to see (and know) where the opponent's armies are once they're a certain distance away. I don't think you should necessarily be able to see them just because they're nearby. Misinformation and plain cluminess on the part of your captains and generals could have armies bumping into each other, with the more tactical minded army being alert and setting up an ambush. Or something.

[PyrrhusofEpirus]

I have already finished 6 campaigns: 3 Romans, Egyptians, Seleucids and Carthaginians (by order they appear in imperial campaign menu!) and now I 'm playing with Parthians. I 've never manage to ambush any enemy and I 've been ambushed 3 or 4 times but the AI failed and battles begun normally. (no surprise attack too) :disappointed:

[The Stranger]

Has anyone ever played an ambush?

I've played 4 factions now and I can never seem to get into an ambush. I've set my armies up right by the road in the woods (the damn game even says "ready to ambush") but no AI ever goes that way. Right when I move my army out of the woods, they all come back the same damn road. It is very annoying.

I also have never been ambushed by the AI. I even tried invading that booney province, I think it was called hyperboria or something, the place with the amazon chariots. Someone said they will always ambush you when moving through the woods to get there but no, they were all in their city.

Need some help here. I don't have any patches by the way.

P.S.
How do you use seige equipment (rams, sap point, ladders, etc.) in a custom battle? Maybe I'm not seeing something here or just plain dumb, but......

i had an ambush only ONCE. i was so glad, until i entered the battle field. know what happened. my troops didn't surrounded the enemy as always happened to me. noooooooooooo, they were on other side of the river. i was soooooooo mad. i demand answers. AND NO THE AMBUSH WASNT FAILED, the popup message said, THEY HAVE NO TIM TO PREPARE, sounds like a good ambush to me

[The Stranger]

Ambuses rarely occured in v1.1 and earlier. In v1.2 its a little easier. Spies and towers can affect the chance of ambushing. In addition there are leader traits the can add +/- to the chance.

As far as what happens when an ambush occurs, there are 3 possibilities (that I'm aware of).

1) The target walked into the ambush but it failed, normal setup/start.

2) The target walked into the ambush and it was partially succesful. The defender gets a smaller box to set their unit up in. (Not much of a difference to #1 if you ask me.)

3) The target starts in column mode and the ambusher gets to set up their units all around them. There is still a distance between the defender and attacker as normal, the attacker simply gets to see the defenders units and set up his units on either side.

Now just because you pulled off a #3 type ambush does not mean you're going to win. I pulled one off that was about the reverse of CMcMahons example. I had 1 general, 3 Hastiti, and 1 Velites. The Brits had 3 chariot units and 3 warbands. Being able to set up on both sides of him didn't do me much good. AI simply charge all his army at one side of my ambush and destroyed them, then turned around and charged the other side.

Personally, I think there ought to be more bonuses/advantages to pulling off #3. Definately a moral penalty on the defender and possibly as much as an attack and/or defense penalty. Would have to try it out to see about balance.
Oh well, even in v1.2 ambushes don't occur often enough to worry to much about it.

i agree with those pena;ties, they were unprepared, thats definitly an morale/defence/attack penalty.

[antisocialmunky]

Think of all the insane things you could do with Phalanxes and Ambushes Of the 3rd Degree. Phalanx sandwich the enemy column...

It'd be exactly like real life, 4000 men leap out of the trees with 16 foot long pikes and form up into huge square phalanxes before the enemy column can react. :bow:

[TonyJ]

I was ambushed playing as the Julii last night by some rebels when I was making a bee line ot attack the gauls.

All I can say is that it was a pretty crappy ambush as they had 80 hastasi against two of my family members and 3 x 80 hastasi.

For some inexplicable reason, the battle map placed me halfway up a steep incline with the rebels beneath me: they immediately started charging UP the hill and I slughtered them to a man without a single loss just using my cav and the missile weapons of the hastasi.

I was laughing my head off.

Whilst playing this campaign again, I have noticed myself getting ambushed more often this time round.

[Marquis of Roland]

Your chances to be ambushed (as opposed to ambush others) depends largely on where your units are though. In my Numidian campaign, I expanded into Spain which is mostly forests. I had so few men and resources, that I often had to send in just a few units at a time to reinforce my various forces across Spain. And time after time, these small armies were ambushed by rebels hiding in trees across the very roads I had to send my men through. I didn't have the manpower to wipe out the rebels either so they became a real nightmare for a while. Out in the deserts and steppes though, ambushes are rarer than seeing examples of good battlefield AI.

It would be nicer to have more ambushes though,and the current system is a bit poor in that respect. I think part of the problem is your ability to see (and know) where the opponent's armies are once they're a certain distance away. I don't think you should necessarily be able to see them just because they're nearby. Misinformation and plain cluminess on the part of your captains and generals could have armies bumping into each other, with the more tactical minded army being alert and setting up an ambush. Or something.

Yeah, I'm playing the Germans right now, so I'm guessing ambush opportunities should be higher than usual...

[The Stranger]

with the gauls they are the best, as i think some noticed, with the more "civilised" factions, the chances of an succesful ambush are rather low

[IliaDN]

Ambushes are often when playing eastern barb. factions , though I noticed that AI ( in my opinion ) do not make ambushes on purpouse , it is just an occasional event ( when enemy stoppes at the end of the turn ) mostly depended on the lands ...

[katank]

The ambush function is bugged.

I personally had it work in my favor once.

I was sieging the Senate in Rome with the large Senate stack in the wild.

I send some lone peasants/warbands to set up a screen on the campaign map to stop the Senate army from attacking my sieging army.

Howeer, the AI stack disappeared and I didn't know what to block.

I moved my lone warband towards my sieging stack and lo and behold my warband got ambushed by the whole Senate force.

I retreated and the Senate stack gave chase which led to them being further than before and an easier block for me.

[bEDEVERE]

I was ambushed frequently as the Julii when invading Gaul and Germany. They were terrible at it and only once was I caught in column formation (2 cav units which basically mowed down the ambushers).

Last night as Germany I accidentally caught the Julii in an ambush - I basically left some troops on the edge of the woods near a road, the Julii came up the road and blamo. I caught them in column formation and I was able to set up as I saw fit.

I had 1 family unit and no other cavelry, but I caught them with 3 good family units and was able to basically get right on top of them and kill off the family units right quick. Was a very lucky break for me.

[katank]

One should get field fortifications and camouflage.

All armies should build points for those while in the field. This should be combined with movement points. Thus, the longer you stay in a place, the more you can devote to build points for field fortification and camouflage.

Thus, you have better chance of ambush as well as getting an advantage when fighting.

[The Stranger]

i totally agree, i think we'll never get such games. o god, i'll be jealous of my grand children

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Points for camo sounds like a good idea.

Ambushes are extremely effective in RTW when they work, I have been ambushed maybe twice and successfully ambushed maybe twice. Not many times, but my ambushes were devestating. It was a small force ambushing a larger one both times and I could slaughter them due to flanking and such. The AI is inept at ambushing though, I was able to make each of its ambushes into great victories.

[Colovion]

I saw a Gaul army coming towards my Iberians - he was camping near his settlement in the winter before setting out in the spring to invade. Seeing this, I set my army in between his army and the pass through the Pyrenees. I settled in on a hillside overlooking the road in a wooded grove. I recieved the telling "Ready for Ambush" message from my General and I waited. I had a spy in the area, there were no enemy agents or other enemy units in the area.

The enemy army began his next turn by attacking my army hidden in the forest ready to ambush him....

ridiculous

[The Stranger]

yeah thats stupid, alot of times AI armies just attack ambushing armies without getting ambushed.

[antisocialmunky]

I don't really think they had alot of camoflage at that time... I think it more consisted of your guys being where they can't be seen, running at the enemy screaming and slashing at the most opportune time...

[HarunTaiwan]

I've set up ambushes a couple times.

Example 1: Armenia vs. Pontus

The Pontics kept sending armies along the sea to hit me. I sent an army to a little section of woods and sat there. Sure enough another Pontic army comes by and I ambush successfully.

I think I did something similar in Sicily.

There are some sweet spots to ambush in various areas.

They key is to guess they are coming your way and be in position. Maybe bait would work too.

[The Stranger]

I don't really think they had alot of camoflage at that time... I think it more consisted of your guys being where they can't be seen, running at the enemy screaming and slashing at the most opportune time...

i don't know, they did had some camouflage. maybe not much, but some. i think youre right though, i never heared about people hiding in holes and stuf in teutoburgerwald. ambush became really advanced in the middle ages

[Garvanko]

Haha! Got myself an ambush. Playing as the Britons (finally sorted my RTW reinstall out), and got the jump on the Gauls - thing is, Im not sure whether to go through with it. Im not ready to start a war with Gaul just yet, and their army is only a couple of warband, it doesn't seem worth it!

Nevertheless... ~:cheers:

https://img344.imageshack.us/img344/1733/ambush0io.th.jpg (https://img344.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ambush0io.jpg)

[_Aetius_]

I've set up a few ambushes but typically it was bugged, an enemy army came along and my trap was sprung it came up you have ambushed the enemy etc, then it goes to the battlefield and its just a regular battle :furious3:

I notice conveniantly everytime the AI has ambushed me (usually rebels) that its always been a proper ambush.

[AntiochusIII]

I've set up a few ambushes but typically it was bugged, an enemy army came along and my trap was sprung it came up you have ambushed the enemy etc, then it goes to the battlefield and its just a regular battle :furious3: Then your ambush failed. That's what it is. Strangely, I *think* the campaign difficulty level designates your chance for a successful ambush.

In 1.5 the A.I. becomes much more competent at ambushing. Once, I was Julii early in the game and was slaughtering the Gauls as usual, taking over their two Italian cities. I didn't see any reinforcements. Then, my Faction Leader and a one-third stack army of mine traveled from Mediolanium to build a fort on the river between Mediolanium and Massilia. It was ambushed by a full-stack Gallic army along the way led by its faction leader. I won the battle though lost my leader in the process, as he was fighting against like three Gallic horse units to keep them from my flanks, the faction leader and two barbarian cavalry units. The bodyguards of my dead leader proceeded to annihilate them all, including the Gallic leader in revenge. :no:

Nice.

[HarunTaiwan]

If you would like to set an ambush, you need to do the following:

1. Find a suitable location.

2. Get your stack there and have them pop into the little ambush positon...

3. Make sure the AI is using that road.

The one time I used an ambush, it was as Pontus...Armenia kept sending armies down the length of Anatolia's northern shore. I placed a stack carefully next to the road there in the woods. Ambushed and defeated an Armenian army within a few turns.

I've also done some ambushing in Gaul, where the routes are pretty well defined.

[professorspatula]

I've had a few successful ambushes on VH as the Julii recently. I tend to leave my armies in woodland whenever they can't make it to a destination safely in that turn. Twice I had an army go to relieve a besieged fort and hid them in the woods between turns, and twice the enemy army has 'stumbled' upon my ambush and got well and truly slaughtered. The odd thing is, I can't work out why the enemy AI went in the direction it did so that it got ambushed. My army wasn't waiting next to a road, and there was no advantage for the enemy army to go towards the direction it did. It's as if the AI knew my army was there, but got ambushed anyway. Now that I think about it, since the patch, the AI stumbles upon my troops waiting in wooded areas all the time.

[fallen851]

I've been ambushed a lot!

Usually by rebel forces, but once I got hit by a large Gallic army in a forest.

I've never sprung an ambush though, but that is more because I've never actually fought a campaign where I needed those kinds of tactics. I must have fought 300 battles now (I never autocalc), and only lost 2, both were ambushes (rebels once ambushed a general and his body guard, the other time rebels ambushed two units of two watch, I ran successfully to the edge of "battle map" and escaped with no losses both times.) Of real battles, I've only had two tough ones...

[Slug For A Butt]

I'd say it's time to up the difficulty level. :idea2:

[Rilder]

I had a sweet ambush go perfectly right in RTR as the iberians, my general knoticing a roman army that would probably march to jenunesses held by my Gaulish Protectorate, so i hid my army in the woods and placed my reinforcements a wile behind, sure enough the next turn i got the bastards, i deployed on one side with my main force and put my heavy calvary on the side then put my Cantribrien jinets near the rear of there force and placed my general, my light cav and my unit of Towered African elephants (shipped from my African Colonies) ad the head then started.... the romans had about 10 seconds of movement before over a thousand screaming Scrutarii Falcata infantry was on them, there colomn(sp?) was cut in half, they didnt break easily though... then my elephants joined the fray, thats when the routing began... i think about 300 out of 1000 romans got away... (large unit sizes)

Man that musta been worse then Tuetoburg Forests Ambush

[Slicendice]

I ambush all the time. The first thing you need to do is place an army in the woods. Also some commanders have the ambush trait which increases the chance of a successful ambush.

On BI try placing that lily liver dude (Gratiatus?) in the woods just below the Alemanni city, but as close to the roman city as possible, with 1 unit of archers and abandon the city he started in. You will want to abandon the city at the start of the game so you can change the religion. The Alemanni got ambushed in the same spot for several turns. However, be careful because Gratiatus gives like -9 moral to his troops and they run at just the sight of Night Raiders.

The success of an ambush depends on the skill of the general and the size of the units in hiding. If your forces are larger than the enemy then if ambush occurs it is more likely to be successful. While I am not certain of this--having troops with "Expert at hiding in woods" trait may increase your odds.

[GFX707]

Works best if you set up your ambush close to a city.

[JLEACH]

I ambush all the time, I consistently play as the britons and am always catching Germans and Gauls off guard. I like to go in and edit the money to 99999999 for all factions, makes the campaign map less challenging but you end up fighitng many many epic battles. I like sending full stacks wayyyy out in another factions lands and just have them hide til they eventually catch some of the bastards and destroy them, a good way to start a war.!

[SirGrotius]

I've been ambushed once, maybe twice by rebels. I recall once it was just a general and maybe one cavalry unit. I thought I could defeat the worthless rebels anyway, but the ambush situation turned the scales against me heavily enough that I managed to lose. :sweatdrop:

[Antagonist]

I have also encountered ambushes fairly frequently in all versions of the game, though they are a bit more common in BI and in some mods (I think) Recently I've been playing EB and trying to conquer Britain has been an ambush-tastic experience. Quite a bit of the country is covered in forest, and all told I think the Casse (EB's British tribe) had about 3 times as many troops as I initially though they did, the rest where all concealed. Nasty business.

Actually springing ambushes myself has been much more rare. I think the trick is to find ambushes near "choke points" such as river crossings, places an army HAS to pass through to get where it wants to go. Mountain ranges are good too. I remember in my first ever vanilla 1.0 campaign I had an army of bribed Thracians which I left hiding in a pass through the Carpathians, and they must've wiped out 3 or 4 Dacian armies with ambushes. Ambushes can be great if you really manage to get the drop on a powerful enemy stack.

Antagonist

[antisocialmunky]

I've had a few successful ambushes on VH as the Julii recently. I tend to leave my armies in woodland whenever they can't make it to a destination safely in that turn. Twice I had an army go to relieve a besieged fort and hid them in the woods between turns, and twice the enemy army has 'stumbled' upon my ambush and got well and truly slaughtered. The odd thing is, I can't work out why the enemy AI went in the direction it did so that it got ambushed. My army wasn't waiting next to a road, and there was no advantage for the enemy army to go towards the direction it did. It's as if the AI knew my army was there, but got ambushed anyway. Now that I think about it, since the patch, the AI stumbles upon my troops waiting in wooded areas all the time.

It's been a repeating theme in TW where CA makes the AI just walk towards an ambush to spring it and get rid of it on Very Hard.

[Gen_Lee]

Seems Im a luck 1 then.
Started playing only last week, Rtr gold at the time with the Romans and was ambushed by rebels just on 4th turn. I had only one unit of Principes but Ai send reforces and manage to win even if My unit was dizimated.
Then on the 7th turn Greek cities manage to ambush My biggest legion while traveling to Syracusa, Same ruslt there but this time I didnt need Ai help.
On RTw v1.5 with terrae expanded I did an ambush casually (Was trying to place my armies on the north and they got out of move on a forest, lol).
A poor rebel army manage to pass by that area and I just carry the biggest massacre I did until now.
On Bi I didnt play enough to got or get ambushed.