08-23-2001, 08:35
Alright, here's the deal: I'm realllllly worn out from about 12 nearly uninterrupted hours in front of a computer screen doing mad research and compiling information. So I shall not talk much now.

And I know this is technically something that should be in the Mods/Patches forum, but what I've come up with is so great I felt I should post it too where the majority of STW fans will see it. So I would be very grateful if the Admins would let me by-- just this once.

I have just completed a comprehensive research of all of the modification possibilities for STW. You can make your own campaigns, twist around the units any way you want to, twist around the projectile stats any way you want to, and a whole load of fun stuff like that. In my research I think I have found the cause of the much vaunted "morale issue", in the form of a unit attribute-- "unroutable", that all of the non-Ashigaru Japanese units have. If I'm right, this could be turned off and people who like the old way could play that way, maybe even online!

This also opens the floodgate to anyone who would want to create great mods for this great game. I plan on working on an American Civil War mod, which I could hopefully release a preliminary version of within a week, complete with a Campaign and everything. If my feelings and hopes are correct, it would be possible for such mods to be played online, also.

Anyway, if you would like to have the research I have done, essentially a guide to Modding this game, I can e-mail it to you, contact me at gengiskan0@cs.com . Believe me, I have no knowledge of or desire to use viruses, so you can trust me. I would hope that in some time totalwar.org would consider offering my archive for download, but until then I'll happily mail it off to anyone who asks.

So, hear ye hear ye! Khan7's Archive on STW Modification 1.0 is hereby released!

I hope to do expand and refine it quite a bit, as I and the resourceful members of the online community learn more. But in its current form the archive can be considererd a VERY useful tool designed to teach you how to make the modifications and make those modifications easier.

Modification though, even with this archive, though not particularly difficult or tedious, is still SOMEWHAT tedious. In the future I would hope that some STW fan with a basic knowledge of programming could make a program to make this all easier.

I realize that the buzz on this has been going around for quite some time, but I am 99% sure that this is the first comprehensive analysis, database, and guide on STW Modding.

So anyway, I've rambled on enough, I must now go crash. Will be waiting for your e-mails so you can get my archive. OOOOoooh so tiiired and wwaaaaaaastedfeeling...


08-23-2001, 08:44
Khan at the moment htis can best be dealt with in Editing and Mods where it belongs and where people who are really interested in it can discuss your findings. So I am going to move it. As I've posted elsewhere today at the moment i'm making a real effort to keep stuff in the right forums.

I hope you're right though, well done for putting in all that effort, 12hrs is a LONG time

Oderint dum metuant

[This message has been edited by Catiline (edited 08-23-2001).]

08-23-2001, 08:45
If you can get into the thunderbomber progectile info, you've got cannons and mortars, you'll just have to adjust the movement and images as required. Everything else is probably ready to go, just needs some adjustments to sprites to represent cavalry, and infantry, as there isn't much else.

Keep up the good work.

08-23-2001, 08:53
I'm a cautious fellow so I hope you won't mind if I don't go praising you right away. I know nothing about stuff like this, but send everything you got to shirototalwar@hotmail.com.

08-23-2001, 18:45
Do you know how to slow the tactial game down slightly?

08-23-2001, 20:09

Did you see my post on this subject? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000156.html

I've experimented with altered unit stats, but have not looked into the campaign modification possibilities. I would proceed with caution, and test carefully.

I have found that increasing the range of javelins or archers breaks the game. You can shorten the range, and that works. It is possible to adjust overall morale by adjusting each individual unit's morale stat a fixed amount. I don't think the routable/unroutable setting is what you want to use to do this.

The altered unit stats do work online, but each machine must use the same stats or else the game goes out of sync. I played a comp game online with altered stats, and the game result was recorded correctly in the EA database. I mention this because there was a claim made that comp games don't work with altered stats.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

08-24-2001, 04:12
Well, when I have had more sleep I will certainly look into your findings. Sounds like you've got some intersting stuff.

Edit: It would be especially nice if you could write up your findings in an organized and complete form so that they could be better acquired and utilized by the online community. Think about it anyway.


[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 08-23-2001).]

08-24-2001, 05:18
Khan what format are your findings in can you not just post them?

Oderint dum metuant

08-24-2001, 07:26
Ok, perhaps I should explain-- if I posted them no one would read it, as it is probably near to a total of 6 or 7 printed pages, maybe as much as 10. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that I organized it nicely into various different files for ease of browsing and reading.

Also the fact that it is largely made up of stuff you don't just read-- it contains a couple of tables that I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to get to work in the forum, and is intended as a reference tool not a quick-read essay.

Basically in order for someone to get any good use out of it, they would have to have it on their computer, and it's much easier for THEM if I just mail it to them in coherent .txt files than for them to have to mess with copying and pasting from the forum and trying to get it all to fit right in a window (not to mention that it would be a pain for me to do the same thing just to get it to appear properly in the forum..).

Basically all of the reasons above. You obviously misinterpreted the nature of my little piece of work.

I'm perfectly willing to mail it off to anyone who wants it, but I'm assuming for the time being that you, Catiline, do not want it sent to you.


08-24-2001, 10:25
Hey Khan7, Thanks alot. NOW i can understand it. thanks again.


08-24-2001, 11:33
Well, work on my American Civil War mod is coming along nicely.. after a bunch of tinkering the units are now performing pretty much how I want them to.. still can't get them to BEHAVE correctly though.. Shogun has no good system for the routing of units with missle fire, at least not in the xpack.

It's looking like there are going to be 3 units-- Riflemen (built off musketeers), Cavalry (built off Cav. Arch.), and the sneaky little cannon men (built off Battlefield Ninja, damnit it's the only small unit with projectile capability lol). It is essentially a whole new game, as the rifles have 3 times the range and 2.5 times the accuracy of the STW muskets.. I armed cav with a miscellaneous mix of pistols and breech-loading carbines (all modeled into the Arqebus slot, with half the range of rifles and 2/3 the accuracy but more than twice the firing rate). The sneaky little cannon men got long-range grenades.

The balance is that your infantry is your main unit, packing great firepower and good staying power. Cannons are good for long range bombardment and DEADLY at close range, but they only have the approximate melee abilities of infantry and there are only 12 of them, and they are very slow (about half the speed of most STW infantry-- now I know some of you guys are going to come in here and remind us that Artillery was horsedrawn, but it took time to hitch up to whaddyu want me to do have them be emplaced one moment speeding along the next? the slowness also helps reduce the effectiveness of their wacky hiding ability), and of course they have a slow rate of fire.

The cavalry will get quickly shot to pieces if it gets involved in the real shooting, but it will be invaluable for breaking the enemy at the critical moment, as it is somewhat superior in melee and quite fast.. also going to be good for running down unguarded artillery.

Anyway, basically all the roles that these unit types held in real life.

But keep in mind that its easy to go and change a unit's stats and call it what you want, but the trick is in getting it all right, which takes muuuuuch tinkering, and a good bit of knowledge of the warfare you're trying to simulate helps too. Trying to get attrition to work out the way I wanted it to was a problem, and I'm not sure if it's right even now.

Anyway, if anyone wants the VERY preliminary version of my Civil War mod, contact me and I'll send it. I will, especially when it is more finished, be looking for people to playtest it and give me some pointers.

Until then, I must go sleeeep. G'night.


08-24-2001, 22:03
i've already got it thx.

Thing is though are we talking about STW or MI here. I think MI, none of hte text files you talk about are in my STW folder...

Oderint dum metuant

08-24-2001, 22:10
This is a cool Mod.
Do you have new sprites?
And how can I do the color sprite? It would be nice. (ie because the Takeda is really a red uniform and the Mori is yellow!)
How do you the Koku?
Can I do maybe the 200 men...or maybe even more men?

I was messing around the Start Position 1520 Oda clan...and Daimyo was Asakura Tademune!!!
The heir was Oda Nobuhiro was 6 yrs old!! COOL! So then 1490 AD was still the Asakura..But no heir.

Btw the Asukura Clan was against the Ikko-Ikki army. The province was Kaga and Noto.


08-25-2001, 00:34
Send what you got to me, you know the drill. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif shirototalwar@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 08-24-2001).]

08-25-2001, 03:01

please send me your archived data. not the actual mods. send to: starfire@apex.net

also, you could have prolly saved yourself about 6 or those original 12 hours by reading this forum first...well, either that or added another 12, not always sure which ;) lots of folks have already discovered some or all of what you've found out. just saves time if we all share our data on this stuff.

and magy already has a working troopstats editor. see his thread for more info on that. and kurando and swoosh have found data on the .bif format. tosa and i tend to tear the map editor apart. hecose is reporting stuff about the campaign edits. bsm is starting his own online multiplayer campaign thing..so, you can save yourself a ton of work, at times, by checking here first. also, read puzz3d's notes about modifying the projectiles file. you can crash the game with this one. the daimyo has also been doing work on the stats and, i think, some other stuff as well.

and, as a final note, glad to have you aboard the mod train :)


I'm sorry, but i never apologize.

08-25-2001, 04:09
Well, it would seem then that my only truly unique contribution is my data which allows the creation of new campaigns, fully editing starting positions, buildings, units, and start year. So maybe others have been doing the same stuff I have, BUT I AT LEAST HAVE THAT!! HA!! :-P

Another unique thing about my research is that it is conveniently bundled in a form so that anyone with basic computer skills and a little common sense and patience can pick up the archive and be modding STW like a pro in an hour. Of course with all the research you good guys are doing the modding that I know, lacking graphics editing abilities, may soon look quite amatuerish :-)

Anyway, the main thing is that I discovered the possibility to mod midnight Wednesday, went on a rocketship creative high that lasted, minus 5hrs sleep and 1hr total of eating etc., until 8:30 Wednesday night when I finished my work. Of course it didn't really end then-- it lasted long enough to keep me up till about 4:30am (most of the time trying vainly to sleep) that night with the first day of my HS senior year on Thursday at 8:00am. So yesterday I was too tired to look at the stuff, and I'm even still tired somewhat today, though I will make efforts to go through as much of it as I can.

So that would explain why I haven't yet taken a close look at all the work you guys have been doing :-)

Edit: Catiline, improvise a little hehe. In my archive, basically to save time, I referred to the Shogun - Total War folder as totalwar (which in reality isn't even a folder, the closest real folder being Total War). I meant to say that in the READme but forgot hehe. I think this may fix your problem.


[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 08-24-2001).]

08-25-2001, 04:29
Okay, I just figured out that I don't have the patience to read Puzz3d's thread, mainly because it is looooong and I'm 80% sure I know more than what he's found anyway, though I may be proven wrong on that point.

Anyway, there is a BIG point that you all are missing which is the anti_units.txt file. I would suggest that any advantage the MHC has over the JHC after their troopstats had been equalized would be in this file. It is my theory that basically each value in there is the weapons disadvantage the given unit has when being hit by the other unit. This file is very hard to read in its current form, but I have arranged it in a very *nice and neat* table for ease of viewing and analysis. I may at some point try and get this table to work out being posted in the forum, but until then just have me give you the archive. I may have the table up by then end of the day, but don't count on it.

Also, my theory on how combat works is this--each litte man in a unit has a basic effectiveness when hitting the enemy, its melee bonus. This to-hit chance is modified by the target's defense bonus. If the man in question is charging, he gets the charge bonus. All of these are modified by anti_units.txt values (which set up the natural balances between Yaris and cavalry, for instance). If the unit in question successfully scores a hit on its target, then whether or not that hit kills is determined by the armor level.

I believe this pretty much sums it up. If you've got anything to add, please do :-)


08-25-2001, 04:55
Khan those files don't exist in STW. I checked the whole lot before I posted that question. The only one i can find seems to be a japmap_startpos.dat that can't be edited. The rest don't exist. Maybe they've added them in MI to make it more moddable, who knows

Plus Puzz3ds thread maybe looooooong, but I'm sure as Kraellin says you could have saved yourself some large proportion of those 12 hours, and it wouldn't take that long to read.

Oderint dum metuant

08-25-2001, 05:01
I've also checked, you can safely post your archive, the tables don't get mucked up. It'd be easier than emailing it and people could refer to it quicker for discussion if it was up here, just a thought.

Oderint dum metuant

[This message has been edited by Catiline (edited 08-24-2001).]

08-25-2001, 05:10
My knowledge of projectiles-- I haven't had problems with modifying ranges. My ACW rifle has a range of 15000 (~200 yards in real life), and my ACW cannon has a range of 20000 (a bit less than ~300 yards in real life). One thing I have found though-- if the speed of a projectile is not great enough, this effectively limits the range. For instance, a projectile with speed LESS THAN 250 will not fire at a target 15000 units away, even if it has the green arrow (it will just reload, aim, and say it fires but no shooting). And if the cannon has a speed value of less than 300, it cannot fully utilize its range.

The reload of the ACW rifle was set at 16, the reload of the cannon was set at 30. The accuracy of my ACW rifle was set at 0.3. Higher than this and long-range attrition is insane.

Another thing I did to fix attrition rates to where I thought they should be is quite interesting-- I set the armor value of musketeers up from 2 to 3 (I had earlier set it down to 0), and put down the power of my rifles from 16 to 6 and then to 3. This way attrition works much better, though I'm not sure I have it right yet. If I hadn't done something in this area you would've had whole units getting decimated in a few volleys from 200 yards.

I set the riflemen (musketeer) charge bonus to 2, melee bonus to 2, and defense bonus to 0. I set the cavalry charge bonus to 4, melee bonus to 3, and defense bonus to 0. I also set the armor to 2. So basically they are big and easy to hit anyway, plus the reduced "armor" (which I am equating to ability to hunker down and protect yourself from fire.. units in the ACW knew much better how to handle themselves under fire than did Sengoku Jidai units), so they basically get shot to pieces if they get into a firefight. They are armed with misc. pistols and breechloading carbines, which I represented in the Arquebus slot as Range 8000, Acc. 2, Reload 6, and these weapons despite their rate of fire have trouble hitting enough of the infantry to get the upper hand even at close ranges. The cav peppers away at 50 yards, knocking off a steady stream of infantrymen, but then the infantry gets to its volley and KABOOM no more cav. And that's just if the Cav. can actually reach range of the inf. with at least 2/3s strength, a very unusual occurence if the inf. knows how to handle itself.

But cav in melee with infantry will win BARELY if it reaches the lines with at least 40 guys. If it gets there with 30 it will be soundly defeated. If it can have its way at full strength then it will win fairly easily. Again, even getting your cav to the enemy's line PERIOD is a feat not to be attempted on undepleted, fresh infantry, and preferably not at all as long as they are still putting up good resistance.

Cannon produce quite good results at long ranges and DEVASTATING results at short ranges, but of course this is all very dependent on the cannon's LOS and how bunched up the enemy is or how slow he's moving. There are many situations in which a salvo will have little or no effect. The speed of the cannon was put at 4, with no bonuses for running or charging, its armor at two and its melee at two, and of course, it has no charge bonus or defense bonus. It is therefore vulnerable if unguarded.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I've rambled on a bit, but I was just trying to paint a somewhat complete picture of the types of modifications I made and the effects they had.

The main problem I've had is that I can't get units to rout or retreat in a realistic (historical) way except when in a vicious point-blank shootout. Even setting the honor level for riflemen down to -8 didn't help much. Charging cav seem to get the idea, though, when they are quickly depleted to 20 guys and are all alone among a sea of inf., but this is HARDLY special.

Another problem is that STW maps are not NEARLY big enough to get a real ACW battle going.. the two sides start too close together.. not enough manuevering room with the long range weaponry and all that.

So basically I would say that STW would be much more suited to modding for Roman or Greek warfare or something like that (maybe even for some elephants like some people want :-) ). But that won't stop me from doing my ACW mod though!! Only prob is the fact that the AI has no clue how to properly behave with ACW units, so it will only be a good option for online play.

Hope all this info is useful to people :-)


08-25-2001, 05:43
Good to hear it's working Khan, if a bit tempremental.

The problem with Greece and rome is going to be the way the units are handled. I've tried before on a more basic level, ie not changing stats, but picking armies with best approximation of equivalent troop types, ie YS and YA in hold formation for Greek hoplites (Roman legionaries can't be modelled with anything in STW proper, maybe something can be done with Korean javelin men, but I doubt it). The problem as you've discovered is that the AI can't handle the units, even your own ones, and especially the enemy. give them what should be a hoplite phalanx and watch what they do with it. the only way I found was to pretend I was Greek fighting Scythians and give the aI all CA.

Oderint dum metuant

08-25-2001, 05:53
And yes, Catiline, you are right, I misunderstood you before, the files aren't in the original. They intentionally put them in the expansion, probably thinking they'll be able to appease us later on by magically coming up with downloads to help us mod it, and probably didn't think we were going to figure it out so soon (hence their silence). They prolly especially didn't expect anyone to figure out the Campaign editing!

But mods for pretty much any h2h-dominant era of combat is going to be very doable. The problems you mentioned are really not obstacles when you have the full modding power and the new unit and projectile types of the expansion, except for the AI problems. At any rate I think you could get the AI to handle something like the Romans well enough, but it would be better as something for people to play online mainly. But even a marginally competent AI (something my ACW mod will lack) would be justification to make a campaign for it, so there is all SORTS of fun people can get out of this.


08-25-2001, 15:10
Is it possible to edit the full campaign mode so that we can build 120 Kensai in one season?

Anyway, I edited the battle campaign mode, I used 120 Kensai & 120 battle field ninjas in mongol invasion campaign. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Can you send me the info about anti_unit.txt?


08-25-2001, 19:54

Sounds like a really nice ACW mod you've put together. I tried your suggestion of upping the speed parameter in Projectiles.txt to increase range on archers and javelins, and it worked. Thanks. I was able to turn the Korean javelin unit into more of a skirmisher by increasing it's range, but if you don't also reduce the power it is a devastating unit.

I've been able to set the morale parameter in TroopStats.txt all the way down to -32, and the game still seems to work properly. With a setting that low, a unit starts out as "wavering". There seems to be plenty of range on that parameter to make morale as fragile as you want.

I have not been able to get any noticable effect in the game by changing parameters in the anti_units.txt file. It will be unfortunate if this file is not actually being used by the game, because it looks like it determines the rock, paper, scissors performance. It would be nice to control that.

I doubt that all these parameter files were left behind by accident. People in the community were very vocal about asking for mod capability. What seems to be lacking is documentation describing how to use the files, and what the allowable range on each parameter is. This may have been due to lack of time to produce the documentation.

Puzz3D (MizuYuuki)

08-25-2001, 21:26

nice work. a couple of questions here, though. how did you arrive at your values of, "My ACW rifle has a range of 15000 (~200 yards in real life), and my ACW cannon has a range of 20000 (a bit less than ~300 yards in real life)." ? i'm not disputing it, i'm just curious how you determined that value X = real life Y.

and why did you use the arqbus slot for the cav guy's weapons? "I armed cav with a miscellaneous mix of pistols and breech-loading carbines (all modeled into the Arqebus slot," ? i may be misunderstanding what you did, but wouldnt that give the cav the same disabilities that arq's have when compared to muskets in stw for things like firing in rain and so on?

also, and this is a general question for anyone doing stat mods, can the attributes that allow for reloads in rain and snow be modified?


I'm sorry, but i never apologize.

08-25-2001, 23:51
I arrived at my estimation of the correlation between Range Units and Yards by looking at the TroopStats.txt file and seeing that all of the inf had 75 between each guy l-r and f-b. I figured this would be about a yard. So there u are :-)

Also eyeballing the distances a bit while playing the game supports my estimations, though this method of measurement is obviously not scientific :-)

And I don't believe the Arquebus has any special disadvantages, though I can't be sure. And if it does, YES they can be altered in some file I saw once, I will go right now and look for that weather.txt I saw somewhere. Instructions on this will no doubt be included in v1.1 of the archive.

And LOL@Puzz3d!!! Set it down to -32 and they START OUT wavering!! I just get a kick out of that :-P

Anyway, thanks for that little bit of investigation, though I'm not sure if it will help me for my ACW mod. For by reducing morale so that they will retreat properly when subjected to deadly fire may only sabotage their ability to charge the enemy, a very important part of any ACW simulation. But your findings offer new promise, I shall check it out.


08-25-2001, 23:53
Now what *I* wanna know is how Shinobi was able to modify the number of men in a unit!!! This is very exciting stuff, as this problem has been plaguing me for some time!!! SPILL THE BEANS SHINOBI!!!!


08-26-2001, 10:42
I edited number of troops in the historical campaign.
I changed the files with adf extension.

c:\Program Files\Total War\shogun - Total war\battle\batinit\


M is the folder contains adf files which is used for training mode.
* -> number 1,2,3,or 0

There are two folder whhch are Historical campaigns and historical battles. In these two folder contains the name of folders which are the name of battles too.

Try to open adf files with notepad.
You can change troop honours,general rank, starting points, type of units.

The name of the files means the name of the side you edit. For example if you edit mongol.adf means you edit the mongol side.

It can be very flexible, Mongol can used
Japanese units and vice versa.

Kensai unit can be changed to 120 maximum size.
Battle filed Ninja unit can be changed up to
120 maximum.

PS: Do not edit more than 120 units, the game will not run and you will get back to desktop if this happens just change it the troop's number not more than 120. Make sure you back up the files before you edit them.

08-26-2001, 11:40
Damn, this has no effect on the normal game, there are no .adf files except the ones for custom battles and historical campaigns. BUMMER!

Thanx for the info tho.. I believe that this stuff has been somewhat common knowledge for a while tho (not by me, but by the veteran modding people).


08-26-2001, 21:47
Khan does your artillery fire over units or through them, ie does it have low trajectory. If high then you're going to be able to move troops in front of it in a way that isn't going to be realsitc

Oderint dum metuant

08-27-2001, 00:42
Yes, at this point they work essentially like modern infantry mortars, with high-trajectory fire. That's the way the thunderbombs work, there's nothing I can do about it. But I don't the EFFECT of being able to have some troops in front of them is ENTIRELY unrealistic, even if the pure concept is.


08-27-2001, 02:05
I thought that it might work like that. BTW i can spell realistic really http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Oderint dum metuant

08-29-2001, 19:56
Kudos for some really great work Khan7. It was well worth the effort and much appreciated. You asked for some addenda where your data might not be accurate or correct and here are a few observations that might help you.

[1] Check out your Region ID list for Kyushu Island regions. 6 = Chikugo; 7 = Buzen; 8 = Hizen; 9 = Chikuzen; I think you'll find is the correct order there. The same thing occurs in your listings for the regions of Shikoku and the west end of Honsu. Here you'll find: 12 = Iyo; 13 = Tosa; 14 = Iwami; 15 = Aki; 16 = Izumo; 17 = Bingo; 18 = Sanuki, and so on.

[2] In your Commands list you ended with:
'SetStartDaimyo:: [clan][??].'
I safely can tell you that [??] is the ID number of the heir who will begin a campaign as Daimyo. And yes, they all seem to have been numbered. Clans in the 1580 campaign have mostly #3 and #4 heirs starting as Daimyo,because historically, almost all the #1 and #2 entities already would have died by that date. (More on Daimyo and heirs later).

[3] In Unit IDs, this may already be redundant info, but the ID numbers you marked as wrong after the 'Geisha = 13' and before the 'Priest = 22' were assigned to all the mongol units and other new units in the WE were assigned these numbers. You correctly listed the 'Naginata Cav.' unit accordingly as '= 18' but did not list the 'Ashigaru-Crossbowmen = 17' and so forth.
You might want to review this list.

Now, to return to the subject of Daimyo units and heirs, I understand that there is data in the game determining the ID numbers of heirs, their names and their birth years which governs when in a campaign they will come of age and become available to lead units in the game. I believe the Hojo heir #18 is the starting Daimyo (Hojo Regent) for the 13th century Mongol campaign. Most of the heirs we know in the game can only appear in the 16th century. When I tried using Takeda Nobutora(?) in a 1470 campaign he operationally started that campaign at the unripe non-age of -18 (having to wait until 1488 to be born). Luckily, he was schedualed to have his first son in 1496 at the age of 8.

So I think you see what I'm getting at here, and my question is, how can we edit and create believable and consistant daimyo and heirs for our edited campaign games?

Certainly the existing heirs work well, so long as one doesn't edit a campaign game that takes place before 1500 or later than 1300. Some of us would like to attempt a Gempei War based campaign (era of Taira Kyomori c.1150-1185) or an Onin war (c.1460-1476)or Warring Courts (c.1330-1380)campaign games. How could any of these be done without editing new Daimyo and heirs?

I'd appreciate anyone's help in overcoming this obstacle. Otherwise, I think we're just strictly limited to editing an unending series of Sengoku-jidai era 'what-if...' campaigns and progressive variations on the hypothetical Mongol Invasion theme.

What do you think?

08-30-2001, 02:42
The Commands is this:

The Damyio is of course[clan] "0" Rebels
It is not the Heirs it is the Daimyo.
ie SetStartDaimyo 0 7 =Ikowa
0 8 = Koteda
0 10 = Chosokobe
This is the Ronin Daymio in 1335 AD


08-30-2001, 04:16
Greetings, Auxerre...or should I perhaps say Arikasada-san? One day I hope to meet you in battle on the beaches at Ichi-no-tani or the on the slopes around Chihaya fortress...

08-30-2001, 05:08
Thanx for the further research Auxere! And the ID numbers for the regions may not make sense, but have you tested them? All I know is that I got them all worked out and then went back and tried to make my own campaign, and found that those were the values, and I had been wrong before. I'd suggest you actually test the values, and get back to me.

As far as all of the other info, when I get a chance I will add it all to my archive, most probably giving credit to whoever discovered it. Thanx guys! Looks like I'm building up to be close to enough to be able to make a good v1.2..


08-30-2001, 13:11
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khan7:
[B]Thanx for the further research Auxere! And the ID numbers for the regions may not make sense, but have you tested them?

Actually I have. The ID numbers follow the same order as the provinces do themselves, were you to cycle through them backwards from the building menu. Of course, you'd need to control all the regions in Western Japan and be able to build in them to test it.

I'd still like to see some work on the Daimyo.

08-31-2001, 06:06
Have you tested these regions SPECIFICALLY?? I can 99% guarantee you that they break the overriding pattern.. you can't assume ANYTHING with this stuff.


08-31-2001, 12:40
Honestly, in your Topic, 'Guide for Campaign Startpos Files txt.,' you listed the Kyushu regions as follows:

1 = Satsuma
2 = Osumi
3 = Hyuga
4 = Higo
5 = Bungo
6 = Chikugo
7 = Chikuzen
8 = Hizen
9 = Buzen

Now, if you look in the 'Sengoku Jidai.txt' file at the 'SetRegionOwner::' commands you'll see the regions I questioned as:

SetRegionOwner:: 6 4 (Chikugo)
SetRegionOwner:: 7 1 (Buzen)
SetRegionOwner:: 8 4 (Hizen)
SetRegionOwner:: 9 4 (Chikuzen)

... which means that you've either switched Buzen and Chikuzen in your list (my observation), or in the WE Sengoku Jidai Campaign you'll find that Buzen will belong to Imagawa and Chikuzen will end up belonging to Shimazu ( according the order given in the region list in the Topic 'Guide for Campaign Startpos Files.txt'). Well as it happens, Buzen is Shimazu's and Chikuzen is Imagawa's and that's my easiest test.

I wouldn't ask you to conquer all of Western Japan (not always the easiest of tasks even when playing Shimazu or Mori) just to cycle backwards through the province build menu, and that's my harder test.

Now for the others I mentioned, in your region list I read:

10 = Nagato
11 = Suo
12 = Iwami
13 = Tosa
14 = Iyo
15 = Aki

... while again in 'Sengoku Jidai.txt' the 'SetRegionOwner::' commands show a slightly different assignment of ID numbers:

SetRegionOwner:: 10 1 (Nagato)
SetRegionOwner:: 11 2 (Suo)
SetRegionOwner:: 12 0 (Iyo)
SetRegionOwner:: 13 0 (Tosa)
SetRegionOwner:: 14 2 (Iwami)
SetRegionOwner:: 15 5 (Aki)

Again, if both listings are correct, Iwami would necessarily belong to the rebels in the Sengoku campaign and Tosa, with it's added honour for Ashigaru units, would belong to the Mori Clan.

I hope I've understood your questions correctly and clarified my previous observations, but I can't help feeling, Khan7, that we are not completely understanding one another on this issue. And, as always, I await your help with the question of editing and adding Daimyo in other periods beyond the 13th and 16th centuries. All your work is deeply appreciated, applied and honoured by this user.

Flaming Mexican
09-01-2001, 02:28
Can you send that info to manic_d50@hotmail.com ?

09-01-2001, 04:53
OHHHHHH, hey buddy, you don't have v1.1 yet! That explains it!

That was one of the changes I made to v1.1, hehe.


09-02-2001, 01:05
Is there a list somewhere of which provinces correspond to what numbers - for the whole campaign map?

[This message has been edited by GrumpyOMO (edited 09-01-2001).]

09-07-2001, 10:37
ok, how does one get one's hands on v1.1?

09-08-2001, 02:14
Thanks for sending your Mod Guide, Khan. You say that virtually everything is editable except graphics (so far!). I wonder if it possible to change the following? :

a) Price of units and structures. If gamers decide they want to edit units drastically then they will probably need to change the cost too. Plus many feel the MHC are too cheap (currently same price as JHC?)

b) Discipline rating. What exactly is 'discipline' as portrayed in MI anyway? This was touted as a major new feature before release and was supposedly unit formation cohesion and ability to follow orders (ie won't be 'impetuous' or reluctant). The only mention I've seen so far is in relation to the drill dojo and routing.

Anybody any thoughts?

09-08-2001, 02:26
currently we cant edit prices/costs. so what has to be done is mod the stats we can mod to make them the right stats for their existing costs.

the discipline thing would seem to be very related to the new morale settings and to the daimyo proximity. having the daimyo closer to any unit gives a morale boost or 'discipline' to that unit and make thems settle down more. it's hardly noticable, given the much higher morale ratings, but supposedly it's there.


I'm sorry, but i never apologize.

06-17-2010, 18:28
Khan at the moment htis can best be dealt with in Editing and Mods where it belongs and where people who are really interested in it can discuss your findings. So I am going to move it. As I've posted elsewhere today at the moment i'm making a real effort to keep stuff in the right forums.

I hope you're right though, well done for putting in all that effort, 12hrs is a LONG time

Oderint dum metuant

[This message has been edited by Catiline (edited 08-23-2001).]

hey can you please help me out with the japmap_startpos.dat i searched all over for it and istill don;'t know how to fix it if u can help me ill be greatful thanks

06-18-2010, 10:31
Welcome joint.m91,

AFAIK, that file is a binary and thus cannot be edited. Try opening the file in notepad (or notepad++) and if you see 'garbage', it's definitely a binary.

As this is a very old thread, I will now close it. Please make a new thread here if you wish to continue the discussion.