Italy issues arrest warrants for agents linked to 'extraordinary renditions'

[Hurin_Rules]

Last Updated: Friday, 24 June, 2005, 16:01 GMT 17:01 UK

Italy seeks 'CIA kidnap agents'

Italian authorities have issued arrest warrants for 13 people they claim are agents "linked to the CIA".
The suspects are accused of abducting an Islamic cleric in Milan in 2003 and flying him to Egypt for interrogation.

Osama Mustafa Hassan, also known as Abu Omar, was already being investigated in Italy as part of a terrorism inquiry.

Italian prosecutors believe the operation was part of a controversial US anti-terror policy known as "extraordinary rendition".

The policy involves seizing suspects and taking them to third countries without court approval.

Human rights organisations say some of the countries to which terror suspects have been deported are known to use torture, and critics have branded it "torture by proxy".

The US embassy in Rome has not commented on the arrest warrants issued against the 13 people - 10 men and three women.

Also on Friday, another Milan-based judge issued an arrest warrant for the Egyptian-born imam himself, whose whereabouts are currently unknown.

No arrests have been made. None of the suspects is currently believed to be in Italy.

An Egyptian woman said she had witnessed the abduction of Mr Hassan on 17 February 2003, while he was walking from his house to the mosque where he preached.

She told police he was stopped by two men dressed as police officers, and cried for help in Arabic as he was bundled into a white van.

Electric shocks

According to Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Mr Hassan was then driven to the US base at Aviano north of Venice and transferred to another base in Germany, before eventually being taken to Egypt.

The 42-year-old imam called his family in Italy after being released last year, and said he had been tortured with electric shocks during his detention.

Mr Hassan is believed to have arrived in Italy in 1997, where he was granted refugee status.

Italian investigators say his abduction hampered an ongoing investigation into alleged terrorist links.

They managed to track down the 13 suspected agents through the Italian mobiles they used during the operation, the paper says.

The suspects are said to have used US passports to check in at several top-range hotels in Milan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4619377.stm

[Tribesman]

Yep , funny isn't it ~;)

[Xiahou]

The suspects are said to have used US passports to check in at several top-range hotels in Milan. That would seem pretty stupid for an American agent to do wouldnt it?

[Tribesman]

That would seem pretty stupid for an American agent to do wouldnt it?
Why ?
Do you think they should have used foriegn passports , or maybe saved the government expense by checking into a cheap hotel ?

[GoreBag]

Interesting. Coupled with Italy's recent policy towards Satanism, I don't really know what to think.

[bmolsson]

Interesting. Coupled with Italy's recent policy towards Satanism, I don't really know what to think.
What is the connection between Satanism and US ?? ~;)

[Spetulhu]

That would seem pretty stupid for an American agent to do wouldnt it?

There's teams like that flying around in US-registered private jets too. I don't think they're stupid as much as arrogant. What's anyone going to do about it, file an official complaint?

[GoreBag]

What is the connection between Satanism and US ?? ~;)

Ya got me. What?

[Xiahou]

There's teams like that flying around in US-registered private jets too. I don't think they're stupid as much as arrogant. What's anyone going to do about it, file an official complaint?
Well that's true too- whoever these guys are, Italian authorities will never touch em.

[PanzerJaeger]

LoL - I would have loved to have been there when that terrorist got picked up. They should know they arent safe anywhere in the world.. we wont forget. ~;)

[Tribesman]

I would have loved to have been there when that terrorist got picked up.
Terrorist ? And what has this "terrorist" been charged with ? What crime has he been convicted of ?
So lets see , impersonating a police officer is a crime , kidnap is a crime , interfering with an ongoing investigation is a crime .
So who are the criminals ? ~;)

[InsaneApache]

Not to mention putting electrodes on his scrotum, well it's illegal in Yorkshire anyway ~;)

[doc_bean]

Isn't it pretty dumb to do these things in a country that actually supports the war in Iraq ?

Arrogance and foolishness, and you wonder why you're getting unpopular.

"Gee I heard the Americans just kidnapped an imam down the street and took him to Egypt to torture him"
"Did he do anything wrong ?"
"Well, he's an Imam"
"I love the US"

[Red Harvest]

Not to mention putting electrodes on his scrotum, well it's illegal in Yorkshire anyway ~;)

I suspect it is only illegal if done for torture...not for pleasure. ~;) The kinks that some folks are into are quite bizarre. ~:eek: You never know what sort of oddity is going to come out of an unrelated web search...

[PanzerJaeger]

Terrorist ? And what has this "terrorist" been charged with ?

LoL - for being a terrorist silly. Even the Italians know that. :rolleyes3:


Also on Friday, another Milan-based judge issued an arrest warrant for the Egyptian-born imam himself, whose whereabouts are currently unknown.

[Tribesman]

for being a terrorist silly. Even the Italians know that
What has he been charged with ?

Edit to add
And of the 71 people who have had charges leveled against them concerning Islamic terrorism based in Italy since 9/11 how many have been convicted and how many aquitted ?
And how many have been thrown out of court as soon as the "evidence" was presented?

[PanzerJaeger]

Maybe thats he needed to tour Egypt for a little while.. the Italians were being incompetent? ~;)

[KafirChobee]

Imagine a terminolgy that twists "kidnapping and torture", into "extraordinary rendition". That in its self becomes a quanindrom of hypocricy and deceipt. It allows the real horror of the fact to be sceened by some kind of honorable principle. It justifies something our laws oppose and alows them to be hidden from them.

America can no longer claim being the answer to a problem, but has become the problem its self. American policy is the machine behind the proliferation of terrorism. America is becoming the anti-(name a profit of any other religion aside from Christendom), and is joyfully doing it. Is proud of it. [and for the truely ignorant it must seem like a pay back to the races they hate]

ExtraOrdinary Rendition, sounds alot like "terminate with extreme prejudice" to me. It is the double speak, the hide the intent and show the flag as your response to critics. It is, BS. It is anti-American in principle, in action, and in moral content. It is against every principle this nation has stood for from its inseption. Then again, we are 230 years removed from their reality (when we were the terrorists, and guerillas - insurgents) and now live in a shadow world of patriotic blindness. For some.

Extraordinary rendition! Imagine, had someone said that 30 year, 20 year, 10 years ago - and had it explained to them that our governement should be allowed to kidnapp and send someone (anyone) they dettermined "might" be an adversary to a country that allowed torture (in its most horrific forms). What would we (as Americans have thought)?

For me, it would have signalled the time to reoil my guns (buy another case of 7.62). Because, it would mean my government had become obsessed with its self and had lost the principles it once stood for. That it now stood for something unrecognizable by the founders. [like it no longer recognized the 1st, 4th, or 5th amendments - as in ....]

Still, there are level heads in governement - the Senate, etc (not the administration) that will raise the call. Maybe, when things have gone to far. When we begin keeping people hidden from their rights as humanbeings. When we disallow justice to a person, because someone in power can put a label on them that says they have no rights as a humanbeing. Or, when we declare an eternal war on all that disagree with us. Or, just when ever an administration can justify its own self-interests into a policy. Like now.
:balloon2:

Of course that will neverrrrrrrr happen. Btw, got some great swampland in Florida for sale.

~:handball:

[Proletariat]

Nevermind.

[Red Harvest]

And of the 71 people who have had charges leveled against them concerning Islamic terrorism based in Italy since 9/11 how many have been convicted and how many aquitted ?
And how many have been thrown out of court as soon as the "evidence" was presented?

Point taken.

Being pragmatic I've got zero humor for terrorists, and consider them valid targets anywhere--including sending undercover agents to execute them on the street in whatever nation they are found. (However, you have to be willing to accept the nasty repercussions, particularly if the executioner is apprehended.) Terrorists exploit the civilized system and they don't deserve any protections by it once they are found out. However, I don't believe in removing many protections on mere "suspicion" of being a terrorist. It should be reserved for cases with 100% certainty, with considerable judicial and skeptical review of the facts beforehand, not just a rubberstamp. That's the problem I have with what is being done--I don't see evidence that the checks and balances are in place. There is ZERO excuse for making mistakes on such extraordinary moves.

In my view the same basic standard would apply for consideration of torture. While I am fundamentally opposed to torture, if I thought it would save innocents from a terrorist act, and I had 100% certainty/proof of a terrorist's identity and crimes, then for me the scale tips decisively toward taking any direct measures against their person to get needed information from them--including torture. They have chosen to fight outside of normal protections on citizens of the world or even as armed combatants, they deserve a special status outside those protections.

One area that I find lacking is in the handling of "non-uniformed" terrorist insurgents--irregulars, particularly foreign fighters who are not militia and engaging in war from among the civilian populace. In previous times during war, that was clear legal grounds for summary execution after a short military trial. In the case of Afghanistan, this should have been done either by local Afghan forces, or later in Guantanomo. (My understanding is that the Afghans did execute a number.) Anyone who was not cooperative and therefore not useful, would have been gone in a few months--about as fast as they could be sent through the process to identify them, be certain of their participation as an irregular, and sentence them.

The key issue is that terrorism is at its core an irregular military act. It should be subject to some sort of clearly defined military law that addresses it, tries it, and adequately punishes it. This is not something that civilian courts anywhere in the world are particularly well suited to handling, especially since it is usually an international crime. This area needs pragmatic international action, not political posturing. Get the best legal minds together from around the world and figure out how to make something practical with protections, but also with TEETH for dealing with the terrorists including death sentences for civilian murders by terrorists (and for specific types of irregular attacks on military targets as well.) We need to protect innocents, *including* unjustly accused, but we also must deal with established terrorists in the harshest way.

Sadly, with certain elements around the world all too eager to call any military action anywhere by anyone for any reason terrorist, I doubt a pragmatic international approach is possible at this time. So one side is going to be stuck seething about untouchables/unreachables, while the other is going to be decrying acts that they see as illegal. Still others of us are going to be concerned that lack of an accepted system will let the problem of terrorism fester, producing both abuses/excesses by the governments trying to combat it, and of course continued employment of terrorism as a political tool.