"Eurolefties fund Iraq insurgency"

[Proletariat]

For Christ's sake.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050623/23euroleft.htm


Can we assassinate these people?



"It's the old anticapitalist, anti-U.S., anti-Israel crowd," says Vidino, who has been to their gatherings, where he saw activists from Austria, Denmark, Germany, and Italy. "The glue that binds them together is anti-Americanism." The groups are working on an October conference to further support "the Iraqi Resistance." A key goal is to expand backing for the insurgents from the fringe left to the broader antiwar and antiglobalization movements.

[Steppe Merc]

Why exactly would people on the left fund terrororists who are certaintly not leftist at all?

[Proletariat]

Erm, anti-Americanism is the idea put forth.

[Ice]

For Christ's sake.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050623/23euroleft.htm


Can we assassinate these people?

God please yes. I'm so sick of this shit.

[Papewaio]

The groups are an odd collection, made up largely of Marxists and Maoists, sprinkled with an array of Arab emigres and aging, old-school fascists,

Odd collection and certainly not all on the left... if facists are left wing in your world view I suggest doing a quick goose step to the left towards moderate.

Put them on trial for funding terrorist organisations.

Assassinate them only if you wish to admit defeat in this war on terrorism.

[Crazed Rabbit]

If they're in countries that are helping us in Iraq (Britain, for example), put their sorry butts on trial for high treason.

I just can't believe how blind they are- they are giving money to destroy a democracy, freedom, justice, etc., just because they don't like the USA. A bit shortsighted, are we?


God please yes. I'm so sick of this shit.

Ditto.

Crazed Rabbit

[Auctoritas]

Putting these knuckleheads on trial raises some interesting questions about jurisdiction and potential penalties. It seems unlikely that if convictions were obtained in Europe that the sentences handed down would satisfy the U.S.

Similairly, if for some odd reason, the U.S. was involved in the prosecution of persons involved in this kind of activity, I can't imagine there not being a substantial backlash in those countries that ceded jurisdiction.


Honestly...killing these dirtbags would be a lot quicker.

[BDC]

Honestly...killing these dirtbags would be a lot quicker.

I don't think anyone would object.

[PanzerJaeger]

Americans dont understand just how much hatred there is of them in Europe.

Certainly not all Europeans, but a large group have bought into this ultra-leftist view of the world with America being the greatest evil. This makes them natural allies of arab extremists.

In any event, yes, these people are enemies of America and allies of terrorists so they need to be killed.

[doc_bean]

Put them on trial for aiding terrorists, we have laws against that now !

Personally I really don't care if these people get killed, or shipped of to G'itmo. But as always, after they get a fair (and hopefully speedy) trial.

Saying these people are representative for Europe is like saying NAMBLA is representative of the average American. It's simply not true.

[Proletariat]

I guess the name "Thirty Pieces of Silver" was taken.

Is the MSM gonna ignore this one too?

[Lazul]

I know alot of marxists, alot of syndicalists and so on. None of them support any terror. I havent even heard one guy telling anyone that terror against the US forces is a good thing.
Could be tho that terror-supporters arent that numerus in Sweden. :bow:

[Don Corleone]

Doc's got a point. If it turns out Joshka Fischer (sp?) is on the list of donators, you might have a point, but I don't think you can make any statements about Europe at large on this (other than they seem to have a pretty loose policy on what's allowed to be posted on European based web servers). I would take great offense to somebody claiming this (http://www.americannaziparty) was the covert agenda of a large portion of Americans, yet there it is, hosted on a domestic US server.

[Proletariat]

Well, I for one never said this was all of Europe. I just would hate to see their conference in October hit with an explosion of some sort.


edit: Actually, who in this thread said anything about Europe as a whole? The NAMBLA point was a strawman.

[doc_bean]

edit: Actually, who in this thread said anything about Europe as a whole? The NAMBLA point was a strawman.

Sorry I guess it was me, mostly in response to Panzer saying


Americans dont understand just how much hatred there is of them in Europe.

I do think we can all agree that we don't like the people funding the terrorists and prefer to see them locked up or killed :bow:

[Proletariat]

Well, I can still see why you'd want to point that out in a thread like this. It's a good point.

Btw, I like your new(?) signature quite a bit.

[doc_bean]

Btw, I like your new(?) signature quite a bit.

Thanks, I guess everyone hates it when the rich and famous tell them how to live their life.

[Tribesman]

One conference sponsor, Campo Antiimperialista (the Anti-Imperialist Camp), credits the 10-euro campaign for buying 2 tons of medicine for Al Anbar province,
Oh the evil bastards , they are buying medicine .
Kill them , kill them all(copyright Capo2004) ~:confused:

[Steppe Merc]

Btw, I like your new(?) signature quite a bit.
As do I. But if it said rock music, then I'd get angry... ~;)

[bmolsson]

Another CIA report ?? Maybe it's time to clean the crystal ball......

[PanzerJaeger]

Oh the evil bastards , they are buying medicine .

Oh my God, tell me you're not defending these people now?

First terrorists, now terror supporters.. sometimes I wonder whose side you're on. ~:confused:

[Proletariat]

Appalling.

[Ja'chyra]

While I don't agree with buying them weapons how can anyone complain about them buying medicines?

No wait, I forgot that you need to do what America tell you, even if you aren't American.

[English assassin]

I'm going to stick my neck out on this one and say that people who provide financial support to terrorists operating against a western democracy should certainly be killed immediately.

But, could the posters above offer some guidance on whether the UK may simply nuke Boston, or do we have to send over the SAS to take out the NORAID supporters one by one?


First terrorists, now terror supporters.. sometimes I wonder whose side you're on.

I remember how that one felt.

[PanzerJaeger]

While I don't agree with buying them weapons how can anyone complain about them buying medicines?

No wait, I forgot that you need to do what America tell you, even if you aren't American.

These kind of comments only go to prove my above point.

(I cant believe Im having to spell this one out.)

The reason you do not want to support ter-ror-ism is because they kill in-no-cent people on purpose and want to destroy any chance at Iraqi freedom.

Good > http://poliblogger.com/images/iraqis-voting.jpg

Bad > http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/18/xin_360701181440096247422.jpg


This goes beyond your love/hatred of America - its about the Iraqi people now.

[BDC]

Ah, just like the old American supporters of the IRA...

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

American supporters of the IRA tend to be Americans with significant family links to Ireland (or, indeed, Irish immigrants).

I don't think anyone was making a big fuss about Muslim migrants to Europe donating to the terrorists. I think people were more bothered by indigenous lefties, fascists etc. supporting people who definitely do not share their world view but do intend harm to the US (and the Western World in general).

[BDC]

American supporters of the IRA tend to be Americans with significant family links to Ireland (or, indeed, Irish immigrants).

I don't think anyone was making a big fuss about Muslim migrants to Europe donating to the terrorists. I think people were more bothered by indigenous lefties, fascists etc. supporting people who definitely do not share their world view but do intend harm to the US (and the Western World in general).
You get idiots anywhere. It's inevitable.

I think everyone is as bothered about Muslims supporting terrorism as anyone else. Whoever it is should be dealt with immediately. There should be no room to use freedom of expression to try and destroy it.

[Ser Clegane]

If there is a support of terrorists from some fringe leftist groups in Europe (and quite frankly the link does not really provide any evidence for this allegation), I think that this support rather comes from somewhat naive and idealistic people who believe that they support some noble freedom fighters in their struggle against "imperialistic suppressors" (I'd like to point out that some links seem to date from late 2003, from a time when it was less obvious that a lot of these "insurgents" were actually targeting Iraqis).

The donation of 10 EUR also implies that this is hardly an organized support of an armed resistance.

A lot of the supporters of these organizations probably rather need an introduction to reality than a bullet in the head (and I think those who have wet dreams about killing these "terrorist supporters" also might benefit from a reality-check)

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

BDC: indeed, everybody is bothered about Muslim supporters of terror too but my point was that the initial gist of this thread was not about immigrants to Europe and their descendants so the comparisons to NORAID are not relevant.

[Tribesman]

The donation of 10 EUR also implies that this is hardly an organized support of an armed resistance.
It more likely implies that it is a scam .


Oh my God, tell me you're not defending these people now?
If people want to send medicine to a province that is mainly lawless and is recieving little assistance from its governmnet or international agencies then what is the problem ?
If however they are sending money and weapons to terrorists then maybe you should ask them where the terrorists are , because if a bunch of loonies are able to find the terrorists and their funding networks while the governments and security services cannot then something is seriously going wrong .

First terrorists, now terror supporters.. sometimes I wonder whose side you're on. ~D ~D ~D
Ah yes , the old "you are with us or against us " nonsense .
So tell me , which enemy is it you are supposed to be fighting ? Al-Qaida wasn't it . And the link between Al-Qaida and Saddam was ??????

The story is a pile of hyped up crap , if you want to take it seriously and get upset about it then that is your perogative .

[Ja'chyra]

These kind of comments only go to prove my above point.

(I cant believe Im having to spell this one out.)

The reason you do not want to support ter-ror-ism is because they kill in-no-cent people on purpose and want to destroy any chance at Iraqi freedom.

Well done, the spelling's coming along nicely ~D As the IRA links have already been highlighted I won't comment on your hypocrisy.


One conference sponsor, Campo Antiimperialista (the Anti-Imperialist Camp), credits the 10-euro campaign for buying 2 tons of medicine for Al Anbar province, a hotbed of resistance, to be distributed "completely independent from both the occupiers as well as their local puppets."

This says that they're buying medicine for the people in a rebellious province, not that they're only supplying to terrorists.


This goes beyond your love/hatred of America - its about the Iraqi people now.

I don't love or hate America, I've never gave it that much thought, and I can understand your patriotism to an extent, but the holier than thou attitude from some people on these boards is really astounding and I can imagine how that would lead some people to hate the US, arrogance is never attractive.

As for "its about the Iraqi people now"............. was it ever ~:confused:

[Fragony]

Doesn't surprise me at all. The leftists of europe has always been closet militants.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I tried to explain how the IRa link is irrelevant here but I an just ignored.
How about through the 20th century the support for Loyalist terror groups in Northern Ireland from the British military?

I coulod go look into this but I can't be arsed, anyway, I'd be shocked if Loyalist terror groups did not get funding from Americans of Northern Irish Protestant descent also (considering how numerous they are).

Anyway, it's not like both sides aren't supported in many ways by people in the rest of the U.K. is it?

As I pointed out above: these things are off topic for the gist of this post.

Anyway, the conflict in Northern Ireland killed barely more people since the late 60s than were killed on Spetember the 11th; terrorists in Iraq have probably long since surpassed that number. I think there must also be a question of priorities over which terror groups to be most concerned about: those in NI or the Basque country are not operating on the same scale.

[_Martyr_]

I tried to explain how the IRa link is irrelevant here but I an just ignored.
How about through the 20th century the support for Loyalist terror groups in Northern Ireland from the British military? Thats because it was nonsense! Just because the majority of the IRA funders in the States had half Irish grandmothers doesnt make the slightest bit of difference! Their money still blew up innocents. Simple as that, why should their rather distant ethnic roots have any more mitigating power over strong political affiliation? Either way, if you give money to terrorists, you are partially guilty for their crimes! Now whether or not this is the case with this particular group is not very clear.



Anyway, it's not like both sides aren't supported in many ways by people in the rest of the U.K. is it? So what exactly is your point? ~:confused:



As I pointed out above: these things are off topic for the gist of this post.
Not really, if it is the case that these nuts are funding terrorists, (as in buying them weapons etc...) then it can be argued that it seems a little rich for the US to be suddenly outraged by such behaviour when they allowed it to go on for so long against one of their closest allies in their own country...



Anyway, the conflict in Northern Ireland killed barely more people since the late 60s than were killed on Spetember the 11th; terrorists in Iraq have probably long since surpassed that number. I think there must also be a question of priorities over which terror groups to be most concerned about: those in NI or the Basque country are not operating on the same scale.
Northern Ireland is also just a tiny provence of a tiny island, with barely one million inhabitants. The troubles have crippled the province in almost every respect: economically, socially, culturally, you name it. The place is one of the most screwed up places in the Western world, and is profoundly split along sectarian lines. Let me tell you, If I were British, I would be really pissed off that America allowed the IRA to be funded. How many London pubs were blown to smithereenes with American dollars? Its not a big problem if its not in your back yard. The thing is though, NI is both Britain's and Ireland's back yard, American funding of the IRA has caused a lot of damage, there is no denying or skipping over it.


I do suspect however that it may turn out to be a load of bollocks. If they were funding terrorists, and that's highly illegal, do you think they would be so public about it? I would be surprised if this wasnt just something blown completely out of proportion just to make a story about the Euro Left, and they actually only sent medicine to that provence. :dizzy2:

[Redleg]

Thats because it was nonsense! Just because the majority of the IRA funders in the States had half Irish grandmothers doesnt make the slightest bit of difference! Their money still blew up innocents. Simple as that, why should their rather distant ethnic roots have any more mitigating power over strong political affiliation? Either way, if you give money to terrorists, you are partially guilty for their crimes! Now whether or not this is the case with this particular group is not very clear.
:

You are very correct in this in my opinion Martyr -

[Samurai Waki]

Well if my knowledge serves me correctly, there are probably quite a few Iraqi immigrants within many European Countries. So say you're an Iraqi Immigrant and your brother decides to join the insurgency would you not feel a little compelled to float some money his way? I think this might be more of a shot at the left by Conservatives saying "You go too left and this is what happens!" but we all really know that most terrorists are right wing extremists. So whats worse in your mind... extreme left people funding terrorists... or extreme right executing the terrorism? I have know doubt that anyone who is found funding them should be put on trial for high treason, and that Extreme Lefts and Extreme Rights are Generally about the same... I'm not saying Liberals lack the capacity to kill... far from it... maybe that was why I was abruptly forced to leave Nepal after a Maoist Rebel Attack in Kathmandu after a 2 week vacation went awry and I had to leave after only 2 days... I've always wondered how the US embassy knew my location... So what I'm really trying to say is.... that all people should be moderatley... moderate.

[PanzerJaeger]

Well done, the spelling's coming along nicely As the IRA links have already been highlighted I won't comment on your hypocrisy.

My hypocrisy? Where exactly is my hypocrisy? I could care less if you come over here and put a bullet in Ted Kennedy's head - if he supports the IRA.


This says that they're buying medicine for the people in a rebellious province, not that they're only supplying to terrorists.

Is that the only part of the article you read?


I don't love or hate America, I've never gave it that much thought, and I can understand your patriotism to an extent, but the holier than thou attitude from some people on these boards is really astounding and I can imagine how that would lead some people to hate the US, arrogance is never attractive.

Im sorry for taking a strong stance on terrorism. :dizzy2:

The quasi-support for the iraqi insurgency by some on this board also leads to hatred, subversive support of terror isnt very attractive either.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Martyr, I'm sorry, I was just saying that these things are somewhat more understandable if they come from groups with a specific emotional tie to a situation.
I think that half Irish grandmothers is not quite the right way to look at Irish Americans. In Europe people don't seem shocked by immigrants who have been there a few generations having ties to where their family originated; identifying with those people and their culture, even funding their terrorist activities. Exactly the same thing goes for Irish terrorists with the Irish diaspora. Exactly the same thing: it does not matter if they weren't born in the right country.

I was under the impression that this thread was about people with no ties to the cultures or aims of the terrorists they were supporting.
Hence what I was saying about the IRA. Thus it was not nonsense if that was the general idea of the start of the thread.

If I misread it I apologise.

Also, you were talking about NI being a small province as regards numbers of casualties: you may have missed all the bombing campaigns by the IRA in the UK mainland: population well over twice that of Iraq.
You know, last time I was in Northern Ireland it seemed to be functioning a hell of alot better than Iraq is currently.

[Tribesman]

I was under the impression that this thread was about people with no ties to the cultures or aims of the terrorists they were supporting.
If you explore the original article and the links you will see many of the people mentioned are of middle eastern origin , and some of them are still resident in the Mid-East .
But further on the subject of Noraid and the various "prisoner support funds" and other donations to "the cause ~D ~D ~D " , most of that money goes straight in the pockets of "fundraisers" who want to carry out a few home improvements , buy a new car or take an exotic holiday .
As I said earlier in this thread ,
It more likely implies that it is a scam .
There are always idiots who are easily parted with their money , and if they think their money is going to a "good" cause then you can not only fleece them you can make them feel happy about getting fleeced .

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

ah, ok, thanks for the clarification Tribesman, I'd only skimmed the initial article.

Have you ever heard of NorAidWatch?
Not quite as enlightening as I'd hoped but it does do a nice job of showing that the money does not go to nice charitable organisations.

That's another thing about the money that goes from the U.S. to Ireland: probably most of it is given by people trying to help charities fix Northern Ireland, unfortunatley some of these charities are front organisations.

[Watchman]

Just as a little reminder, it's not all that many decades since quite a few European countries had to deal, with varying methods, with small and odd but also noisy and destructive domestic terrorist organizations, most of which sprung from the ultras of the so-called "New Left" of the Seventies that had been shut out from the political field. (As one book puts it, "in Scandinavia the young radicals were assimilated into the existing political structures and became parts of it; in Germany they were ostracized and went underground to throw bombs.") You know, the Bader-Meinhof gang, the Red Brigades and sundry other nuts. And at one point Stalinism was something of a fad among student youth.

Nothing new under the sun really then if you now have an assortement of wacky radicals sending money into Iraq. Those are inconsequential pennies anyway, so why the furor ? These sorts of folks crop up everywhere, and at least this batch by and large behave themselves. Now, if they bought a ticket to Iraq and signed up with the gun-toting fellows to do some Jihading against the Americans, that would be something worth notice...

[Proletariat]

If you explore the original article and the links you will see many of the people mentioned are of middle eastern origin , and some of them are still resident in the Mid-East .


Translation: "I'm gonna read whatever I want into this article."



The groups are an odd collection, made up largely of Marxists and Maoists, sprinkled with an array of Arab emigres and aging, old-school fascists, according to Lorenzo Vidino, an analyst on European terrorism based at The Investigative Project in Washington, D.C. "It's the old anticapitalist, anti-U.S., anti-Israel crowd," says Vidino, who has been to their gatherings, where he saw activists from Austria, Denmark, Germany, and Italy. "The glue that binds them together is anti-Americanism."

Did you miss this part upon your objective perusal?

And what is your actual point Tribesman? That it's okay because they're just Middle Easterners anyway, or is it okay because it's just medicine?

[Tribesman]

Translation: "I'm gonna read whatever I want into this article."
Translation ; some people didn't even bother to read the article and made comments that showed that they hadn't read it .

And what is your actual point Tribesman?
My point is that it sounds like a scam , and people are getting their knickers in a twist over a story that really means nothing .

[Watchman]

"It ain't stupid who asks, but the one who pays." Me, I'm assuming it to be real mainly for the sake of the argument. It's far too minor an issue to be of any significance either way.

Although I find reading peoples' reactions to it to be quite... enlightening in their own way.