saladin?

[VAE VICTUS]

saladin,how good of a general was he?from my understanding, richard kicked him around at two major engagements.and was looking toward jerusalem.why did richard stop?endure the muslims harassment,and beat the mess out of them in a siege.but he did alienate many of his allies when he pretty much took over acre and wouldnt let any non english-french forces inside to share the loot.many of the germans(what was left after barbarossa died) left.the crusaders were far from home,but on the rare occasions when they held discipline and were competently led,they prevailed.anyway,did sala-ha-din suckor was he a pretty competent commander or was he god?j/w.
he did destroy crusader army at hattin,but the crusaders were on disadvantegious ground,exhausted,thirsty.and unfortunate enough to have guy leading them.it seems saladin didnt fare so well against richard,even if richard was a bit of a bi sexual.(is that valid by the way,him and philip?)

[edyzmedieval]

In my opinion, Salah-Al-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub, was a good commander. He founded the Ayyubid dynasty in Egypt, BTW.

At Hattin in 1187, he won a great battle, although with big help from Guy of Lusignan and Gerard de Ridefort( he won because of their mistakes)....
Saladin repeteadly fought with Richard but in the end Richard was defeated and he was forced to leave... Saladin granted the Christian pilgrims free pass and protection......

[Fragony]

An honourable man for sure, but I have heard some doubts about his commanding skills, supposedly he was more of a political animal that managed to set up an enormous army in a very short time, great leader, poor general.

[xemitg]

And he Saladin was fighting on his home turf which cannot be overlooked.

I think he was a competent general but he had things going for him that really helped.

[Krusader]

Saladin was a more competent statesman/politician than a general. He wasn't a poor general, but there were many better ones. And yes, you must remember he kind of fought on home turf, and he won Hattin due to Crusader mistakes (and that they took a big army "out in the open", while they had fought guerilla style before.

[Leet Eriksson]

Saladin is over-rated. Decent general at best, the only units that really carried him through his battles were his kinana arab allies and his kurdish mountain spearmen, the rest of his army were basically militia.

Nur al Din was a far better general than Saladin.

[RollingWave]

Crusader strategy wasn't gurella, but rather the hugg the castle or defensive position strategy, it is the same as gurella in the sense that they avoided show down with the Muslim army, but they did not really focus on harrasements or sneak attacks etc...

The Crusader's cause was lost from teh moment the Muslim were united under Saladin, that was no real secert, as long as Saladin wasn't a moron or coward the Crusader ultimate defeat was inevitable, simply considering the manpower and resource and logistical difference between the two sides.


Saladin is over-rated. Decent general at best, the only units that really carried him through his battles were his kinana arab allies and his kurdish mountain spearmen, the rest of his army were basically militia. So were the Crusaders, the vast majority of their army in terms of number were certainly not knights in armor. In Hatin IIRC there were at best 10% Knights (roughly 1-2 hundred at best) while the rest were call ups, many wearing no armor and weilding slings. the knights took few casultise in Hatin (most were captured alive or died in the final brawl) while their auxilaries suffered heavy casulty from teh Muslim harresments and broke rank (which lead to the final assult)

[VAE VICTUS]

from what ive read,richard ready to take jerusalem,his command was united,frenchys were finally ready to fight,saladin was evacuating the city.and he changed his mind abruptly.but at jaffa,(if im correct)richard came to save the defenders who had retreated into the citadel.(by now saladin had most of his main divisions,and his major commadners had arrived.richard comes with 35 galleys,saladin seeing this ordered the beach filled with soldiers(not familiar with terrain there so not sure how many could fit)to prevent the christians from landing.the galleys moved to the beach,and richard and his army disembarked with a roar.soon a beachhead was etablished,a blockade.soon richard was in the streets with warrior monks in close behind him.when saladin heard that the king was already in the streets.he is reported to have said"how can this be?"by what superior disposition have they been able to accomplish this?in infantry and cavalry our army is far superior!"richard re took jaffa,and camped on a hill by the city.soon a plot was laid to capture richardtwo muslim commanders had a disagreement over who would fight mounted,and whose men would fight a horse.their words became heated and the crusader camp was alerted.richards men fell into a defensive line,with pairs of crossbow men behind.richard fought back,he was unhorsed and saladin sent him another horse(that was weird,saladin seemed more chivalric than the europeans)at another point he was surrounded,but he emerged from the dead relatively un hurt.soon he was given a wide berth,he had become a one man killing machine.saladins scribe,beha al din said"and on that day the king of england,a lance in his hand,rode down the whole length of our army and none of our men dared challenge him"
richard won at acre,arsuf,darum,and scattered the muslims greatly.\(not to mention at cyprus against isaac comnemus).

[Watchman]

By what I've read of it Saladin and Richard almost never actually fought a "real" set-piece battle - even the bigger ones being really more of major skirmishes that in some cases escalated beyond what was intented.

But what lost Richard the whole thing was pretty much logistics. While the Crusade against him had been gathering after he drove the Crusader Kingdoms to their coastal strongholds, Salading had been busy constructing forts, guard towers and so on wherever it was strategically meaningful. The necessity of reducing these one by one for the simple sake of securing his supply lines, all the while under pressure from Turkish light cavalry, did wonders taking all momentum and serious achievement from Richard's campaign.

Not that Medieval warfare wasn't almost all sieges, maneuver and devastating the countryside anyway. In the Levant it was just even more so from the beginning.