Something about Iraq that I have not heard about so far in the U.S. media

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

US delight as Iraqi rebels turn their guns on al-Qa'eda
By Oliver Poole in Qaim
(Filed: 04/07/2005)
Edit: this is a U.K. source. Equivalent U.S. date is 07/04/2005

American troops on the Syrian border are enjoying a battle they have long waited to see - a clash between foreign al-Qa'eda fighters and Iraqi insurgents.

Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country.

The reason, the US military believes, is frustration at the heavy-handed approach of the foreigners, who have kidnapped and assassinated local leaders and imposed a strict Islamic code.

Fighting, which could be clearly heard at night over the weekend, first broke out in May when as many as 50 mortar rounds were fired across the city. But, to the surprise of the American garrison, this time it was not the target.

If a shell landed near the US base, "they'd adjust their fire and not shoot at us", Lt Col Tim Mundy said. "They shot at each other."

The trigger was the assassination of a tribal sheikh, from the Sulaiman tribe, ordered by Zarqawi for inviting senior US marines for lunch. American troops gained an insight into the measures the jihadists had imposed during recent house-to-house searches in nearby towns and villages.



Shops selling music and satellite dishes had been closed. Women were ordered to wear all-enveloping clothing and men forbidden from wearing western clothes.

Anyone considered to be aiding coalition forces was being killed or kidnapped. That included those with links to the government - seen as a US puppet - such as water or electricity officials. As a result local services had collapsed.

Captain Thomas Sibley, intelligence officer of 3rd battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment, based in Qaim, said: "People here were committed supporters of the insurgency but you cannot now even get a marriage licence.

"The tribes are the only system or organisation left and they appear to have stepped in.

"In the last week our camp in the town was attacked and the attackers got ambushed on the way back by two machineguns and mortar fire. That is good news for us."

Baghdad recently warned that Iraqi insurgents, many of them nationalists rather than Islamists, and al-Qa'eda cells were working more closely together than in the past. That was brought into doubt when the bodies of three foreigners, believed to be insurgents, were discovered in Ramadi, apparently killed by Iraqis.

But the extent of the jihadist presence in Hasaybah - and therefore the subsequent tension - is unique.

Foreign fighters first started to arrive two years ago after Zarqawi bought properties to use as safe houses for arrivals before they could be funnelled east towards Baghdad and other major cities.

The police fled in November. In mid-June, al-Qa'eda units took over key buildings, including mosques and government offices. "Al-Qa'eda in Iraq" flags were raised.

The city, 240 miles north-west of Baghdad and adjacent to the insurgent centre of Qaim, is so dangerous that soldiers in the US base sleep in bunkers because of mortar and rocket attacks.

Following al-Qa'eda's seizure of the main buildings a number of residents fled. Arkan Salim, 56, who left with his wife and four children, said: "We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.

"They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore."

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Whos insurgency is it now?

[Don Corleone]

This sounds way too good to be true. Can you provide any links as to where this story is coming from? Call me lazy, I don't want to go search on the author.

What's more, even if it was true, the dateline is 4.7.2005. If they have been fighting each other, it looks like the native born Iraqis lost, because the attacks in the past month have been significantly worse.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Don,

It came from a reputable U.K. broadsheet.

We do our dates backwards. This is breaking news. It came out on 4th of July 2005

[Don Corleone]

Well, like I said, it sounds too good to be true, but I certainly hope that this is the case. Nothing would make me happier than to see the real Iraqi insurgents realize we're not there to permanently occupy them and see that Al Queda is.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Can you provide any links as to where this story is coming from? Call me lazy, I don't want to go search on the author.

Like I mentioned in another thread if someone posts the title of something and you want to find it just google it and you will get the link. Here lazy bones ~D

LINK (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/04/wirq04.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/04/ixworld.html)

I hope this will be a help to those who have such problems.

[Lemur]

Like I mentioned in another thread if someone posts the title of something and you want to find it just google it and you will get the link. Here lazy bones.
And so it is unreasonable to ask the person cutting and pasting the article to also provide the link? While they've got the window open, you know, with the article and the URL?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

And so it is unreasonable to ask the person cutting and pasting the article to also provide the link? While they've got the window open, you know, with the article and the URL?

OMG your still on a crusade against me ~;) Look I usually post links .When I post an entire article though I sometimes leave it out as everything is posted other than the url. Again its simple enough to find. Just for you though I will endevor to post a link with each and every article from now on. I hope I can brighten up your mod somehow. ~D I guess if you cant attack the message attack the messenger. Im not talking of attacking me here by the way.

[Tribesman]

We do our dates backwards
Nooooooo.... America does its dates wrong .
Day first as its part of a Month that is part of a Year ~:cheers:

This sounds way too good to be true
Why ? the same thing happened in Fallujah last year .

Why do you think its good ? If you add this to the Sunnis arabs fighting the Shia and killing their leaders and vice-versa , the Kurds doing the same to both , then it looks pretty much like the civil war that they have been trying so hard to avoid from day one .

Anyhow ...
The police fled in November. In mid-June, al-Qa'eda units took over key buildings, including mosques and government offices. "Al-Qa'eda in Iraq" flags were raised.
That should make them easy to find ~D ~D ~D

[the tokai]

We do our dates backwards
Why do you think its good ? If you add this to the Sunnis arabs fighting the Shia and killing their leaders and vice-versa , the Kurds doing the same to both , then it looks pretty much like the civil war that they have been trying so hard to avoid from day one .
Plus, people killing each other is never a good thing.

[Don Corleone]

Why ? the same thing happened in Fallujah last year .

Why do you think its good ? If you add this to the Sunnis arabs fighting the Shia and killing their leaders and vice-versa , the Kurds doing the same to both , then it looks pretty much like the civil war that they have been trying so hard to avoid from day one .
First, this isn't what happened in Fallujah. The US pinned down a stronghold of the insurgents, invaded, and destroyed it. That's not what he's describing. In fact, the US isn't even a party to the conflict described in the article.

Likewise, if it's local Sunni warlords taking on Zarqawi's foreign terrorists, that's not a civil war. Unless you're trying to claim anyone fighting the great Satan is united in brotherhood and should put aside their difficulties and fight the real enemy. ~;)

[Tribesman]

First, this isn't what happened in Fallujah.
Isn't it ? Try reading from some different sources. Lots of things happen .

Likewise, if it's local Sunni warlords taking on Zarqawi's foreign terrorists, that's not a civil war.
Read what I wrote . View the wider context.
Unless you're trying to claim anyone fighting the great Satan is united in brotherhood
As that statement makes no sense , I take it that you are extracting the urine .

Tokai ;Plus, people killing each other is never a good thing.
Sometimes killing is a neccasary evil , but yes , generally it is not a good thing .

[Don Corleone]

I agree with you that Sunnis and Shias killing each other, assuming they're both Iraqi, would be indications of a civil war. But the article Taffy posted is about some Sunni warlords getting into it with some of Zarqawi's foreign born fighters. How is that indication of a civil war?

As far as 'the truth of fallujah', yes, there are a lot of different sources out there. Some claim Iraq is a diversion to cover up the fact that we're being invaded by aliens at the moment. Perhaps you could help me narrow my search down?

[Xiahou]

Likewise, if it's local Sunni warlords taking on Zarqawi's foreign terrorists, that's not a civil war.
Read what I wrote . View the wider context.

What wider context? The one you're trying to put it in? I believe there's an appreciable difference in Iraqis fighting foreign terrorists and Iraqis fighting each other- no matter how much you're trying to say its the same.

[Tribesman]

I agree with you that Sunnis and Shias killing each other, assuming they're both Iraqi, would be indications of a civil war.
Well since its been happening for a long time now , do you think it may already be a civil war , plus you forget about the other Iraqi groups that are also killing their "opponents" .
Perhaps you could help me narrow my search down?
Try the US State Dept. . Or alternatively try the Iraqi Government .

But the article Taffy posted
Did I mention the article Taffy posted apart from "if you add this" ?
It is just another example of groups operating in a lawless environment where it is becoming increasingly common for people and groups to settle their differences through the barrel of a gun .
It is a sign that the country is further fracturing and sliding into civil war .

[Dâriûsh]

Violence near Iraq border ‘off the chart’

By Elliot Blair Smith
USA Today


HUSAYBAH, Iraq — Uprooting the criminal gangs that control this violent border town and defeating a small but well-trained insurgent force here may be left to new Iraqi security forces when they begin moving into the western desert this year, Marine Maj. John Reed says.
Until Iraqi forces can be deployed to this remote outpost, a small contingent of Marines is focused on stopping foreign religious warriors, or jihadis, from entering Iraq, and rounding up insurgents that launch attacks here.

Untamed even by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, the area has been a haven for insurgents, smugglers and thieves who wage daily battles among themselves in the city, Reed says.

Almost as frequently, he says, the combatants turn their automatic weapons, grenades and mortar blasts on Marines camped at the town’s edge.

“We’re facing a well-developed, mature insurgency with the support of the local population” of about 100,000 townspeople, Reed says. “There is no Iraqi security force here. They are not effective. There are no police. They are dead or doing something else.”

In stark contrast to the inroads multinational forces have made in such hot spots as Fallujah, Ramadi and Mosul, Marines in Husaybah have been forced to hunker down in defensive positions. Their base, Camp Gannon, is named for Capt. Rick Gannon who died April 17, 2004, while leading an effort to rescue two sniper squads trapped on a rooftop in the city. Five Marines died that day in a fight against about 100 insurgents.

Unable for safety reasons to patrol the city on foot and in vehicles, troops are limited in their ability to gain important street-level intelligence. So the Marines primarily mount counterattacks on insurgents and criminals who fire into the camp. Last week, the Marines averted disaster when three car bombers backed by 30 insurgents assaulted the camp.

Marine Lt. Col. Tim Mundy, commander of the Third Battalion, Second Marine Regiment, who oversees Husaybah from his base in Al-Qaim, about 10 miles away, says he believes many insurgents recently pushed out of Fallujah and Ramadi by coalition forces regrouped here even as foreign fighters continued to flow in from Syria.

Mundy, 40, says, “This is about as complex a situation as I can imagine any battalion facing.”

The insurgents face not only the Marines but also resistance from two Sunni Muslim tribes. The Mahalowis and Salmanis historically controlled the town’s cross-border trade. Reed says those tribes dominate the local criminal gangs, police and politicians. They feud with each other but unite to oppose the U.S. presence. “There was always violence here, and now it’s much higher. It’s off the chart. They’re killing each other every day, and we’re killing them,” Reed says.

Saddam once talked of converting the area’s smuggler trails into a major trade route from Syria through Baghdad to Kuwait. That ended with the Gulf War in 1991. In April 2003, U.S. forces entered Baghdad and toppled Saddam, but they didn’t reach Husaybah until three months later.

Violence became routine here last fall after U.S. financial aid to the area dried up in anticipation of Iraq’s provisional government taking over the local administration. That still hasn’t happened.

In October, U.S. forces closed a border gate to constrict the flow into Iraq of foreign jihadis. But with trade shut down, merchants began to convert their shops into bomb making studios, Reed says. Insurgents hired local youths to set the bombs and mines and fire on U.S. troops, and they terrorized families to get them to cooperate, he says. “When they go into a house, decapitate the men, rape the women and disappear with a few children, I guarantee you the rest are doing what they’re told,” Reed says.

New Iraqi security forces might help stabilize the situation when they are trained and arrive in the late summer or fall, Reed says. He adds, “If we go it alone, we will have a flash point like Fallujah. We’re near that point now.”

Reed says he has doubts about this border town’s future.

“When the multinational force leaves, maybe the insurgency does,” he says. “I don’t think so. I think it has a higher goal: to make the new Iraq fail. What the future here is, it’s kill them all. It really is. Or make them run somewhere else.”


http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-794464.php


It seems that the al-Zarqawi boys allied themselves with the Mahalowis, rivals of the Sulaimans. Hence the fighting.

[Tribesman]

What wider context?
Does the article that Dariush provide a wider context for you Xiahou ?

If not then how about the motion put forward by 86 members of the Iraqi government yesterday ? Or how about the US State Dept Iraq situation report ? Or how about the Iraqi security services report into groups within the government and security services carrying out killings and supporting insurgents in pursuit of their own agendas ?
How much context do you want ?

[Xiahou]

What wider context?
Does the article that Dariush provide a wider context for you Xiahou ?

The one that's almost 3 months old?


April article:
Almost as frequently, he says, the combatants turn their automatic weapons, grenades and mortar blasts on Marines camped at the town’s edge.

July article:
Fighting, which could be clearly heard at night over the weekend, first broke out in May when as many as 50 mortar rounds were fired across the city. But, to the surprise of the American garrison, this time it was not the target.

Are there sectarian tensions in Iraq? Of course there are. That still doesn't mean that any local Iraqis rising up against foreign terrorists automatically falls into your "wider context". Its funny how some, when faced with good news in Iraq, will still try to cast it in a bad light.

[Proletariat]

Uhm, I read things like this all the time. You have to look for it, thanks to the MSM's blatant attempts at losing this war, but they are there.

I've been downplaying the seemingly endless string of weapons caches found in the past few weeks due to the realization that the entire country is one big weapons dump, but perhaps we've finally started to make a dent:



Thanks to Iraqi civilian tipsters, U.S. soldiers from Company B, 3rd Battalion, 116th Armor Regiment, Task Force Liberty, discovered an unexploded ordnance cache in Kirkuk province June 29.

"By far, this is the biggest weapons cache the 116th has found," said 1st Lt. John Thew, Company B, 3rd Battalion, 116th Brigade Armor Regiment. "We have found in one day what usually takes four months."

[S]aid Air Force Staff Sgt. Michael Becker, 506th Air Expeditionary Group EOD. "We've seen signs that terrorists are running low on ordnances to use on roadside improvised explosive devices and vehicle-borne improvised explosive device attacks.



The terrorists targeting of civilians with their car bombs has apparently led to a significant increase in calls about weapons caches to the anonymous tip lines.



Iraqi citizens assisted coalition forces in finding more than 4,000 pounds of high explosives located near Kirkuk Air Base during the past two days in two separate incidents.



This is also exceedingly interesting:


The northwest region of Iraq has seen a slight decrease in the number of insurgents over the past month, and the majority of terrorists involved in suicide bombings are foreign fighters, Rodriguez said. Multinational Force Northwest has several operations ongoing to stem the flow of foreign fighters into the area, he said. Iraqi and coalition forces are working together on the western border to stop foreign fighters from crossing into Iraq, and increased security standards at the only official crossing point in the region has decreased traffic by 45 percent in the last month, he said.

More of what the media is not telling you about Iraq:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/20050704_1945.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this...:


Meanwhile, Iraqi police at the Zuhor station seized a powerful car bomb July 3 from three suspected terrorists apparently preparing for an attack on the station. The car bomb included 20 rockets, 25 rocket-propelled grenades, 25 hand grenades, three bags of TNT and nine cases of mortar rounds. Iraqi police killed one of the suspects and captured another. A third suspect escaped.



...Is one hell of a big bomb. Thank God they're getting better and better at finding them.

More Good News:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/20050704_1941.html

[Proletariat]

Again, if all you follow are mainstream media sources, you'd swear that the terrorists in Iraq were running around with no repurcussions. Yet, as usual, when you dig around a little (aren't media outlets paid to do this?) you find that, no, actually, the right side is winning:

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/06/sorry-for-inconvenience-scroll-down-to.html


It's not only us who bleed, they're bleeding too end even more profusely and obviously the media has a purpose behind focusing on our losses while mentioning the terrorists losses in the inner pages or in many cases pretending that they don’t exist.

-1st regiment/2nd commandoes brigade arrested 43 suspects in Al-Doura district while the 2nd regiment/1st brigade arrested 2 terrorists in Shu'la district.

-The interior ministry announced the beginning of operation lightning-1 in Babil province which is going to be a joint effort between the Army and the local police forces. The 1st wave of raids resulted in arresting 43 suspects and confiscating 10 vehicles used in terror attacks against Iraqi civilians and security forces.

-A force from the Iraqi army backed by Polish troops raided terrorists hides in the areas of Jibla and Rashad in the same province and arrested 8 terrorists and confiscated their Ak-47's.

-Police forces in Kerbala arrested 20 terrorists and confiscated 6 suspicious vehicles and disarmed 2 vehicle-born bombs.

-In Zangora area near Ramadi, Iraqi and American troops arrested a terror cell leader named 'Jbair Grayen Al-Jiblawi who's one of Zarqawi's aides in Anbar province.

-In Tikrit, multinational forces arrested 3 roadside bombs-makers and in Kirkuk 10 suspects were arrested. The men are supposed to be responsible for some missile attacks in the city. Explosives' ingredients and blast capsules were found during the search of the arrest scene.

-In Abu Ghraib, Al-Muthana brigade arrested 19 terrorists and found amounts of weapons and detonation devices as well as vehicles that were prepared for performing terror attacks.

-In Tal-afar near Mosul, Iraqi and American troops killed 15 terrorists in clashes that took place yesterday.

-One of the most important successes was arresting one of Izzat Al-Douri's relatives along with 3 of his bodyguards.

-Iraqi TV announced Khalid Sulaiman Darwis (aka Abu Al-Ghadia Al-Soori) was killed during a raid as part of Operation Spear in Anbar province. The Syrian terrorist is one of the leaders of al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Sources: Iraqia TV, Al-Sabah, New Sabah and Al-Mada papers.



That's ~170 captured or killed, many in operations by independent Iraqi army soldiers. The key is the bolded one, however, they're getting close to Izzat Al-Douri who was the Islamist in Saddam's regime. Be interesting to hear what he has to say once we hook him up to some fake electric chairs.

[Proletariat]

Well, like I said, it sounds too good to be true, but I certainly hope that this is the case. Nothing would make me happier than to see the real Iraqi insurgents realize we're not there to permanently occupy them and see that Al Queda is.

Et tu?!

Are you getting all your Iraq news from CBS?

[Don Corleone]

Not sure I follow your statement. I said it sounded like a good thing but it sounded unlikely. If the Iraqis insurgents have figured out that Zarqawi & company are there trying to setup a new shop like they did in Afghanistan, and they decided to get rid of them, then this is best news I've heard in a while.

[Samurai Waki]

I think perhaps it is more so the Sunnis who support the Insurgency than the Shi'ites. The Sunnis have good reason to do so, when america leaves the Shi'ites will dominate Iraq's politics. I am sure the Shi'ites also have large unfounded weapons cache's but between the Shi'ite Clerics and Iran (who is supplying their weapons) I think Iran wants to downplay the insurgency, telling the shi'ites not to provoke the Americans, it would be better to wait until we leave. Syria and Lebanon seem to be the two largest transgessors in the Iraq conflict, supplying the Sunni's with weapons, however both Syria and Lebanon have their own militaries to support, so perhaps they have silenced their operations because of lack of funding (both seem to have rather weak economies). The Sunnis both insurgents and Freedom Fighters are losing weapons and ground to the Americans and the rapidly forming Iraqi Army. I think with the next year or two we might begin to see a descent in the number of violent outbreaks. However as of now, I don't find very much comfort in this strange twist of events. I think from day 1 the US should have sub-divided Iraq amongst each perspective culture.

[Proletariat]

If the Iraqis insurgents have figured out that Zarqawi & company are there trying to setup a new shop like they did in Afghanistan, and they decided to get rid of them, then this is best news I've heard in a while.

I'm not sure why you seemed so pessimistic. Alot of these stories have been coming out for awhile now.

[Proletariat]

Chrenkoff, with more of the latest good news.


"You can't fix in six months what it took 35 years to destroy." These words, spoken by Ibrahim al-Jaafari, Iraq's first democratically elected Prime Minister in half a century, should be inscribed in 3-foot-tall characters as a preface to all the reporting from Iraq. Sadly, the underlying reality all too often seems to escape many reporters caught in the excitement of "now."

(Sorry to upset you, Galloway fan boys. Some people think Iraq is better off without Saddam.)

[Tribesman]

That's ~170 captured or killed,
Yet your own governmnet says that between 70-90% of suspects are not really insurgents or terrorists .

Chrenkoff, with more of the latest good news.
Would that be the same Iraqi Prime Minister who came in for a real bashing in the Parliament ? Something to do with doing a U-turn on his policies for which he was elected .

Be interesting to hear what he has to say once we hook him up to some fake electric chairs.
No you cannot do that as everyone knows the electricity supply is too erratic ~;) , perhap that is why they are using drills on peoples kneecaps to extract information instead .
Do you remember what Bush said about no more torture in Iraq in his Cross Hall address , but then again he did say a lot of things that were untrue in that speech didn't he .

I think from day 1 the US should have sub-divided Iraq amongst each perspective culture.
Wazikashi , do you mean like the partition of Palestine , India , Ireland . Thats a good idea , it has always been so succesful in the past :dizzy2:

[Samurai Waki]

Meh. I was half drunk when I wrote that. I say a lot of things ~:)

[Tribesman]

Meh. I was half drunk when I wrote that. I say a lot of things
I know the feeling ~:cheers:
But seriously , considering The US and Iraqi condemnation of the Kurdish Militia over their actions during the Fallujah operation , and last weeks train bombings in Turkey by a group that is partly based in Iraq (there are just so many different factions to keep track of and they all seem to spend as much time changing their minds over who they are fighting and who are their allies) .
Can you see any prospect of an amicable establishment of an Kurdish state within the present Iraqi borders , and even if they are able to resolve the many issues would be involed in that action , could you see that "State" continuing its long running internal war between the different Kurdish factions, and its equally long running conflict with other neighbouring States .