Good Morning, Iraq.

[Proletariat]

This is my Good News from Iraq thread. I was surprised in another thread how people from both sides were shocked or skeptical about the good news coming from the place, so here I will continue to dig up dirt that explains what is really going on.

Today's interesting link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1680525,00.html


A SYRIAN policeman was killed and two militants captured during fighting on a mountain overlooking Damascus yesterday in a second day of battles between Syrian security forces and rebels connected with the war in Iraq.

The gunbattle, which allegedly involved former bodyguards of Saddam Hussein, came amid indications that the Syrian Government is increasing its efforts to capture militants who use Syria as a staging ground for attacks in Iraq.

Sana, the official Syrian news agency, reported: “The clash took place on Mount Qassioun with a group of people wanted for terrorist crimes, some of whom were former bodyguards. The gunbattle claimed the life of Ahmad Hijazi, a security forces officer, Sana said, which added that two police officers and two other security force officers were wounded.

The agency said that the two people arrested were Sharif Aied Saif Smadi, a Jordanian, and the wife of his brother, Mohammed, who is on the run.

The incident came a day after fighting between Syrian troops and suspected Islamist militants returning from Iraq who were trying to cross into northern Lebanon, near Homs. Two soldiers and a militant were killed in the fighting, the first incident of its kind along the Lebanon-Syria frontier. Syrian troops arrested at least 34 militants staying at a nearby safe house, Sana said.

[Proletariat]

From a few days ago.


Chrenkoff, with more of the latest good news.


"You can't fix in six months what it took 35 years to destroy." These words, spoken by Ibrahim al-Jaafari, Iraq's first democratically elected Prime Minister in half a century, should be inscribed in 3-foot-tall characters as a preface to all the reporting from Iraq. Sadly, the underlying reality all too often seems to escape many reporters caught in the excitement of "now."


(Sorry to upset you, Galloway fan boys. Some people think Iraq is better off without Saddam.)

[Proletariat]

From the same thread:


Again, if all you follow are mainstream media sources, you'd swear that the terrorists in Iraq were running around with no repurcussions. Yet, as usual, when you dig around a little (aren't media outlets paid to do this?) you find that, no, actually, the right side is winning:

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/20...ll-down-to.html



It's not only us who bleed, they're bleeding too end even more profusely and obviously the media has a purpose behind focusing on our losses while mentioning the terrorists losses in the inner pages or in many cases pretending that they don’t exist.

-1st regiment/2nd commandoes brigade arrested 43 suspects in Al-Doura district while the 2nd regiment/1st brigade arrested 2 terrorists in Shu'la district.

-The interior ministry announced the beginning of operation lightning-1 in Babil province which is going to be a joint effort between the Army and the local police forces. The 1st wave of raids resulted in arresting 43 suspects and confiscating 10 vehicles used in terror attacks against Iraqi civilians and security forces.

-A force from the Iraqi army backed by Polish troops raided terrorists hides in the areas of Jibla and Rashad in the same province and arrested 8 terrorists and confiscated their Ak-47's.

-Police forces in Kerbala arrested 20 terrorists and confiscated 6 suspicious vehicles and disarmed 2 vehicle-born bombs.

-In Zangora area near Ramadi, Iraqi and American troops arrested a terror cell leader named 'Jbair Grayen Al-Jiblawi who's one of Zarqawi's aides in Anbar province.

-In Tikrit, multinational forces arrested 3 roadside bombs-makers and in Kirkuk 10 suspects were arrested. The men are supposed to be responsible for some missile attacks in the city. Explosives' ingredients and blast capsules were found during the search of the arrest scene.

-In Abu Ghraib, Al-Muthana brigade arrested 19 terrorists and found amounts of weapons and detonation devices as well as vehicles that were prepared for performing terror attacks.

-In Tal-afar near Mosul, Iraqi and American troops killed 15 terrorists in clashes that took place yesterday.

-One of the most important successes was arresting one of Izzat Al-Douri's relatives along with 3 of his bodyguards.

-Iraqi TV announced Khalid Sulaiman Darwis (aka Abu Al-Ghadia Al-Soori) was killed during a raid as part of Operation Spear in Anbar province. The Syrian terrorist is one of the leaders of al-Qaeda in Iraq.


Sources: Iraqia TV, Al-Sabah, New Sabah and Al-Mada papers.



That's ~170 captured or killed, many in operations by independent Iraqi army soldiers. The key is the bolded one, however, they're getting close to Izzat Al-Douri who was the Islamist in Saddam's regime. Be interesting to hear what he has to say once we hook him up to some fake electric chairs.

[Xiahou]

This could be a good thread- keep it coming. :bow:

[Proletariat]

I won't go back any further for now.

Also;

Knocking on wood...

It has been a bit quieter

Knocking on wood...

A major tribe in the insurgency is about to issue a fatwa declaring the political process valid

Knocking on wood..

[Proletariat]

Also, Fighting breaks out between Iraqi rebels and Al Qaeda.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/04/wirq04.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/04/ixworld.html



American troops on the Syrian border are enjoying a battle they have long waited to see - a clash between foreign al-Qa'eda fighters and Iraqi insurgents.


Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country.

[Proletariat]

This could be a good thread- keep it coming. :bow:

I hope to maintain this myself as often as possible, but anyone should feel free to chime in!

Glad you're interested.

But wait, there's more. The concept of de-escalation sounds like a good concept. Here you go:

http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Lind_062905,00.html


When the patrol (in Humvees) passes a busy street, Lieutenant Waters ... tells his men to get out and start walking. As the foot patrol makes its way through the streets, an old Shiite woman in a black hejab invites Waters into her house. At the threshold, Waters politely waits.

"I don't want to track the dirt from the street into your house," he tells her ...

Waters is trying to gain the trust of this tense district, where the US has previously been regarded with hatred and suspicion ...




What has enabled Lt. Waters and his unit of California National Guardsmen to get it right? Lt. Waters is a cop. Specifically, he is a sheriff from Sacramento. He is dealing with the people of Baghdad the same way he deals with the people back home, politely and with a genuine desire to help. His unit has not killed anyone because Lt. Waters knows cops succeed by de-escalating, not by escalating violence. Cops try very hard not to kill people. In fact, cops don't want to fight at all.

[Watchman]

*s-i-i-i-gh* You know, around here we have a saying about not selling a bear's fur before the beast has been felled...

Just out of curiosity, what are the conservative estimates you know about the number of insurgents operating down there ? The ones I've seen speak of many thousands; and as odds are they get new recruits all the time...

Rather more importantly, the ones that don't die in the skirmishes learn. The place is a live-fire training ground for the next generation of Islamist militants, and you're not going to be able to convince me the US will be able to kill or capture even a majority of them.

If the country gets back on its feet sometime in the near future, fine; at least something good came out of the whole bloody mess. If it doesn't, well, none of those "good news" are worth a damn...

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Proletariat: you are a star

[Proletariat]

...and you're not going to be able to convince me the US will be able to kill or capture even a majority of them.


The Iraqi's will and are beginning already to do it.

But go ahead, Watchman. Stick your fingers in your ears, shut your eyes and scream as loud as you can.

[PanzerJaeger]

The place is a live-fire training ground for the next generation of Islamist militants, and you're not going to be able to convince me the US will be able to kill or capture even a majority of them.

You seriously misjudge the US military then. Just because they are using a gloved fist with real Iraqi militants doesnt mean they couldnt eliminate many more of them.

Many of these homegrown Iraqi militants are fighting for a place in the new Iraq and other reasons and can, and have been, negotiated with. I think you'll find the survival rate for a foreign terrorist to be much lower as the iraqis themselves turn them in many times.

[Watchman]

...at which point the smart ones - ie. the really dangerous ones - bug out and plot trouble somewhere else. The grunts have "expendable" stamped on their foreheads from the start anyway and damn near like it, when it comes down to that. Your point ?

Just out of curiosity, how many bright Afghanistan vets besides Osama were needed at the "planning departement" to mastermind and organize 11.9., nevermind all those earlier, minor ops ? Not bloody many, by what I know. Certainly a minuscule number relative to all the guys sho went into the 'Stan to fight the holy war against the godless Soviets...

[Xiahou]

If the country gets back on its feet sometime in the near future, fine; at least something good came out of the whole bloody mess. If it doesn't, well, none of those "good news" are worth a damn...I guess then, by that token, if it does work out.. well none of the "bad news" will be worth a damn?

[Watchman]

Would you say ultimately beating the Nazis absolves Stalin from the guilt of his hideous mismanagement (and I'm not even referring to the actual purges and terror campaigns here...) ? I know I wouldn't. "The end justifies the means" was never my thing, especially if the "means" was incompetence, brutality and so on and so on. I'm largely in the opinion that if Iraq gets back to its feet the thanks go virtually entirely to the Iraqis themselves for having managed it despite the best efforts of the idiots in White House...

[Xiahou]

Personally, I would say that both good and bad news can serve a purpose and neither should dismissed because they don't fit into predetermined views of the few. I believe looking at another side of events is the point of this thread.

[Watchman]

*shrug* Call it "looking at another side of events" if you want. I know a red herring when I see one. Listing enemy body counts from an unspecified time period isn't the best way to demonstrate the country is getting better, you know.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

did I miss something?
Did the Mujahadeen learn how to fly passenger aircraft into skyscrapers when fighting the Russians?

[Watchman]

Yes, you did.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

that would explain it then.

precisely how much combat experience is necessary to plan a hijacking?

[Watchman]

:blank: Good for you , I guess.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

go on, explain how fighting the Soviet military gives someone the skills to plan the hijacking of an aircraft?

maybe some very basic management skills that could be aquired in other fields?

Wouldn't it be better to have experience of airline security than stingers in this case?

[Watchman]

*blank stare* How's it look like ?

[Proletariat]

I'm largely in the opinion that if Iraq gets back to its feet the thanks go virtually entirely to the Iraqis themselves for having managed it despite the best efforts of the idiots in White House...

And the 'I wish Saddam was still in power' chant still goes on strong.

Way to bring in Communism and Nazism into a thread about positive news from Iraq. I must have forgotten this key analogy despite it's stupendous relevancy.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

seriously you equate the planning of 9/11 with combat experience in Afghanistan.
How does that work?
It may provide the willingness to do such a deed; it does not however, in practical terms, cover immigration violations, teaching suicide attackers to fly airliners, getting said attackers onto planes or keeping the plot hidden.

[PanzerJaeger]

Reflexive anti-americans dont think things like that through Taff. ~;)

[Proletariat]

I'm sure Ali from the Free Iraqi (http://afreeiraqi.blogspot.com/2005/07/what-independence-means-for-me.html) blog would like to personally thank Watchman for his support.



And allow me, one very grateful Iraqi on this day, the 4th of July to congratulate all Americans on their independence day that I truly celebrate with them. It's not just out of gratitude but also because I believe it's more than an Independence Day for America, for by being free and independent, the American people gave so many other nations their independence, and thus I see it as an independence day for all the free around the world. Happy 4th of July America and thank you for all your help and sacrifices, not just for us Iraqis but all free people that you helped them get their freedom, and thank you for being the symbol of freedom that gives hope to all oppressed people around the world.

[Tribesman]

And the 'I wish Saddam was still in power' chant still goes on strong. Well Prole , you may not have your fingers in your ears , but I think they must be seriously defective if that is the chant you are hearing .

More good news .The Association of Barbers is telling its members to keep working .
Hooray ....when barber shops become targets you just know its getting better :dizzy2:

[bmolsson]

Maybe Syrian guy's shoot only are freedom fighters that is trying to remove a totalitarian regime ???

[Proletariat]

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2005/07/iraq-and-london.html


They would have blown up 30 trains if they had the means. Certainly it was not the milk of human kindness that stayed their hand.

The inevitable question then is 'why could Bin Laden not find the means to attack 30 trains?' The answer it seems to me, must be Afghanistan, Iraq, the Horn of Africa and hundred other places where he is engaged without quarter by US forces.

...the practice of engaging an enemy on one front to weaken him on another has been tested from antiquity and is more natural than the alternative....There are many who accept without question the proposition that the US Armed forces are being 'bled dry' in Iraq; that it has become over extended...Yet the very same persons will vehemently reject the idea that Al Qaeda can also be spread thin...it is as if one set of natural laws operated for the Jihad and another for the blundering Americans. But mental honesty will compel us to accept that this can't be true...that if we thought about it really hard, everyone who lives peacefully in a Western city owes it to the men out on patrol tonight.



But don't listen to Wrechard, he's just a former special operations officer...

[Redleg]

http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2005/07/iraq-and-london.html




But don't listen to Wrechard, he's just a former special operations officer...



Ah but you miss their point Prolerariat his views run counter to thier expectations - and he is an American therefor they will blindly ignore anything he has to say.

[Tribesman]

But don't listen to Wrechard, he's just a former special operations officer...

Then he should know that if the "enemy" concentrates its forces hunting for you , then you bugger off somewhere else where he isn't looking.

Ah but you miss their point Prolerariat his views run counter to thier expectations - and he is an American therefor they will blindly ignore anything he has to say.

What you mean like this bit
...Yet the very same persons will vehemently reject the idea that Al Qaeda can also be spread thin...
But his views don't take into consideration that it only takes 1 terrorist in a city anywhere in the world to blow up a train . So it don't matter how thin you spread them does it .

[Proletariat]

Substantially "out" in time for the 2006 mid-term elections?


The United States and Britain are drawing up plans to withdraw the majority of their troops from Iraq by the middle of next year, according to a secret memo written for British Prime Minister Tony Blair by Defense Secretary John Reid.

The paper, which is marked "Secret -- UK Eyes Only," said "emerging U.S. plans assume that 14 out of 18 provinces could be handed over to Iraqi control by early 2006," allowing a reduction in overall U.S.-led forces in Iraq to 66,000 troops. The troop level is now at about 160,000, including 138,000 American troops, according to a military spokesman in Baghdad.

Reid on Sunday did not dispute the authenticity of the document, but said that no decision on troop levels had been made. In Washington, a Pentagon spokesman said officials there had not seen the document.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/10/AR2005071000725.html

This article seems like both a "best case scenario" and an indication that "standing up" has come to mean solely an ability to fight insurgents, and not a remake of society.

I also see another fight between Rumsfeld and the commanders on the ground, in some ways necessitated by the over-extension of the Clinton-destroyed force numbers.

I also see the mid-terms as importantly driving the result. It is important that people see success at the mid-terms, but a permanent constitution and two successful elections in the fall and winter should be all the success they need. Alas, only a significant troop drawdown would probably work at that point.

I still think it's a woefully bad idea for this information to have been released. But, expecting the Western Press to do anything to further the goals of Bush and Blair is silly. The person who leaked the memo should be tried for treason.

[Proletariat]

Translation of a letter from the head of the Da'awa party that is required reading.


What is significant about this article and the Jaafari visit, is that this man represents the leadership of one of the main stream conservative religious parties in Iraq, the Da’awa party. To pronounce the words of thanks is a formal declaration of alliance and negation of the notion of Occupation and affirmation of the Liberation by one of the recognized leaders of the main current of the Shiaa movement in Iraq. You don’t thank an occupier, but you can thank a liberator. Also the donkeys that he is talking about are not in the extremist enemy camp, but some in the Shiaa camp. The hypocrites are the likes of the followers of Muqtada Al Sadr. The enemy is boiling with spite which explains the murder of one of Sistani's agents and the attack on a house of the Prime Minister today.

Politically, the U.S. has made an important conquest so far: That of the hearts and strategic alliance of both the majority of the Shiaa and certainly the Kurds; that accounts for at least 75% of the Iraqi people. And I am sure a sizable part of the Iraqi Sunnis can be won over eventually. The undercurrent of largely unspoken popular support and gratitude remains despite all the hardships, mistakes and even harshness in the relationship between the troops and the population due to the mistrust created by the terrorists. This is something that no amount of Media bias and enemy propaganda can shake off. This is the decisive factor, and this is what is going to prevail in the end of the day.

http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_messopotamian_archive.html#112024233622314946

[Franconicus]

Substantially "out" in time for the 2006 mid-term elections?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/10/AR2005071000725.html

This article seems like both a "best case scenario" and an indication that "standing up" has come to mean solely an ability to fight insurgents, and not a remake of society.

I also see another fight between Rumsfeld and the commanders on the ground, in some ways necessitated by the over-extension of the Clinton-destroyed force numbers.

I also see the mid-terms as importantly driving the result. It is important that people see success at the mid-terms, but a permanent constitution and two successful elections in the fall and winter should be all the success they need. Alas, only a significant troop drawdown would probably work at that point.

I still think it's a woefully bad idea for this information to have been released. But, expecting the Western Press to do anything to further the goals of Bush and Blair is silly. The person who leaked the memo should be tried for treason.
This is the best news for long time. HJope they can execute their plan ~:thumb:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Dont say execute ~:eek:

[Franconicus]

Sorry!
What is wrong with that?

[Franconicus]

Cube,
why don't you just open a 'Bad morning, Iraq' thread? I agree that both sides of the medal should be reported. And I guess Prol just started this thread to give the good news a forum.

[Franconicus]

I'm notoriously bad at commitment. I'd make such a thread and forget about it. That said, we get all the bad news from CNN every day anyway, I'm just wary of the motives behind this thread.
I am sure that Prol did not want to start propaganda. As you said there is enough space for bad news on TV. She just wanted to show that there are good news as well. And man, we need some good news these days!

[Proletariat]

I oppose this thread on the grounds that it is clearly made with the inention of trying to soften the bad news that comes from Iraq, most of which makes the "Good" news pale in comparison. Tell both sides of the story if you're going to tell it all.

That's all ya got? Bad news not getting enough play, for you?

Edit: Thanks, Franc.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I oppose this thread on the grounds that it is clearly made with the inention of trying to soften the bad news that comes from Iraq, most of which makes the "Good" news pale in comparison. Tell both sides of the story if you're going to tell it all.

You have got to be kidding. All we ever hear is bad news. Its nice to hear the OTHER side of the story for once. I know many servicemen who have returned from Iraq and they tell a very different story from what you see on TV and read in the papers.

[Proletariat]

The recent statements and arrest of Zarqawi's mentor, Isam Mohammad Taher al-Barqawi (a.k.a Sheik Abu-Mohammed al-Maqdisi) exposes dissention in the ranks of al Qaeda's leadership. Just prior to Barqawi's internment, he conducted an interview for al Jazeera, ostensibly to criticize his protégé Zarqawi, but in actuality to communicate the need to reorganize and rethink the methods being used to fight the infidel.

Walid Phares explains the context of Barqawi's interview, as well as some very real problems with al Qaeda's strategic operations.

Al Maqdisi [Barqawi] wasn't primarily convincing al Zarqawi to limit,
reduce or stop suicide operations. He was - through al Jazeera -
trying to inform others around the Arabic speaking world about the
ultimate goal of suicide attacks.

http://www.windsofchange.net/

[Franconicus]

Last days there has been almost no news from Iraq in German media. Is this good news? Or did the media loose interest? What do you hear in the US?

[JAG]

More great news!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4713481.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4712249.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4703317.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4704983.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4694123.stm

Great, great news as ever!!

[Ser Clegane]

Last days there has been almost no news from Iraq in German media.

There is a story about the situation in Iraq in this week's Der Spiegel which is also available in the online version
Die Saat des Bösen (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,366512,00.html)

I have to admit that I did not have the time yet to read it though... ~:)

[Franconicus]

It is bad news. They write that Iraq is at the edge of a civil war. But it is not really new news.

[Tribesman]

Good News , no really , the 12 remaining Sunni representatives responsible for draughting the new constitution have ended their boycott though one of their demands is an independant international inquiry into their colleuges murders . So just maybe they can reach the deadline next month .
If they stop arguing about what to call the "new Iraq" ...any preferences out there ? can we have a poll ? which do you favour ...the Islamic Republic , The Arab Republic or the Federal Republic .

And Talibani is now worried that they are going to reopen the whole debate about the role of Sharia Law in the new constitution, in his words , if they reopen that door they will not make any progress .

[Ser Clegane]

It is bad news. They write that Iraq is at the edge of a civil war. But it is not really new news.

I read it now. You are right - a rather bleak picture, but not really "news" in the literal sense.

[scooter_the_shooter]

All you people who go on about how the war is wrong and bush is a Criminal (and all that other propaganda)


what do you want us todo , leave and let the new Iraqi democracy alone, and let the terrorist win???

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Default Re: Good Morning, Iraq.

More great news!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4713481.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4712249.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4703317.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4704983.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/4694123.stm

Great, great news as ever!!.

The real tragedy here is that for you it probably is. ~;)

[Ronin]

All you people who go on about how the war is wrong and bush is a Criminal (and all that other propaganda)


what do you want us todo , leave and let the new Iraqi democracy alone, and let the terrorist win???


there isn´t any "good" choice anymore......

the terrorists won this one the moment bush gave the order for invasion.

almost the entire world said this was a bad idea....don´t turn around and ask for a solution for this now...there is no solution....the only question is how long this will be dragged out for.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Then all the lefties need to quit their complaining or they will really hurt the troops morale.

[Franconicus]

All you people who go on about how the war is wrong and bush is a Criminal (and all that other propaganda)


what do you want us todo , leave and let the new Iraqi democracy alone, and let the terrorist win???
Sorry?
Best news for me would be that the fighting in Iraq is over today, that Iraq is a free and safe country and that we can start fighting Bin Ladn.
Is there anything wrong with that?

[Franconicus]

Then all the lefties need to quit their complaining or they will really hurt the troops morale.
You know what is the worst thing for the morale. Fighting the wrong war with the wrong leaders.
But this was supposed to be a 'good news thread'. ~:cheers:

[scooter_the_shooter]

You all need to see a documentary called gunner palace. It shows the good and the bad. While I was watching I couldn’t see any bias for either side.

A reporter of some sort follows the soldiers around for a couple months. It shows every thing from discovering weapon cashes and handing food to hungry children. To the soldiers being spit on and having rocks thrown at them by some of the Angry iraqis. It even shows what the soldiers do in their free time.


All of the Iraqis don’t hate our troops.

[Azi Tohak]

I did not even see this thread. Not sure how I missed it though...

Thank you JAG for reviving it. But I must say, it is sad when you enjoy people dying.

Azi

[Crazed Rabbit]

It's not that he enjoys people dying (I think). Its just that smug sense of satisfaction he gets when things go badly for Blair or Bush, unhampered by the fact that good people are dying.

Crazed Rabbit

[JAG]

No, it is the sheer sadness that people over there are dying for a war which everyone who opposed it, stated would turn out this way. Depressed in the knowledge that everyday we are there more innocents die and the terrorism situation gets worse for them and us.

Quite amazing that you believe I like the thought of Iraqis dying, when it is by your principles and backing that they are dying, if you heeded those who opposed the wars advice, thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis would be alive and terrorism would not be emboldened.

I also think I am one of the most consistent advocates of not killing people, thank you very much. Remember the 'enjoying killing people' crap when you try and enlarge your penis' in the gun threads.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I also think I am one of the most consistent advocates of not killing people,

But you seem to think its much worse to die fighting for freedom than because you said something bad about your fearless leader. Or at best your attitude is dead is dead . It doesnt matter how . That is unless we did the killing. Then its bad no matter what.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Jag saddam killed more iraqis then the WHOLE coalition combined. SO where are you getting this from.

[Azi Tohak]

No, it is the sheer sadness that people over there are dying for a war which everyone who opposed it, stated would turn out this way. Depressed in the knowledge that everyday we are there more innocents die and the terrorism situation gets worse for them and us.

Quite amazing that you believe I like the thought of Iraqis dying, when it is by your principles and backing that they are dying, if you heeded those who opposed the wars advice, thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqis would be alive and terrorism would not be emboldened.

I also think I am one of the most consistent advocates of not killing people, thank you very much. Remember the 'enjoying killing people' crap when you try and enlarge your penis' in the gun threads.

Any chance I could get a taste of whatever it was that gave you the wonderful gift of foresight? And remember, had I heeded the advice of those who opposed the war, we would be giving more money into the ‘Oil for Food Program’ that Saddam (and Koffi?) loved to death, and trying to beg and plead with Saddam (and Gaddafi Duck mind you) about playing nice.

But of course, the what, 60,000 dead children per year would have happened? Let me see now, even if your hardly unbiased group claims 25,000, last time I checked 120,000+ is more than 25,000.

Terrorism was emboldened by our actions huh…seems to me it is still about the same. I wonder (if you could enlighten me you Grace of course) if you could tell me how many attacks would have occurred without the invasion of Iraq. Zero? Maybe. 10? Possibly. But can you be sure?

I am just curious your Grace, if you would also be kind enough to inform all us ignorant conservatives what your plan on how to deal with Saddam was. Since you abhor innocent deaths, than certainly you had to have something in the works to relieve the poor oppressed Iraqis of the tyranny. Especially on the magnitude people who died under him.

Azi

[Roark]

Supporters of the war always seem to jump on that old "We've removed a cruel despot" bandwagon. It became more convenient to label Saddam a monster when the publicised justification for the war fell through.

Yeah, he was a mongrel, but let's not fool ourselves... If the West was truly concerned about the poor oppressed masses, they would have done something long ago when he was happily gassing 300,000 Kurds...

[Azi Tohak]

Would they? Seems to me we were hamstrung by a President too busy getting...well...you know (I'll not write it here for the children). And God knows the rest of the western world can't get off its sorry ass and help anything without the US leading. Germany has been emasculated, France...well...is still France afterall, and Britain is just too darned small.

Oh yes, by the way, good afternoon Roark ~:)

Edit (Okay so I feel bad for my ADD and keep upping my post count): Now then...if we were so wrong to support the war...what is your justification for opposing it? People are dying? Methinks we can all agree more died during Saddam's hold than have recently. More white people are dying? Seems to me that is true, but foul. I'm just curious.

Azi

[Roark]

Good afternoon! ~:cheers:

[Franconicus]

Get out of here! This is for good news only! :furious3:

[Tribesman]

Jag saddam killed more iraqis then the WHOLE coalition combined.
True , and he killed most of those people when he was being backed by members of the coilition .

And remember, had I heeded the advice of those who opposed the war, we would be giving more money into the ‘Oil for Food Program’
~D ~D ~D would that be the self financing program that was set with your governments blessing precicely so that they didn't have to give any money.

Seems to me we were hamstrung by a President too busy getting...well...you know
I didn't know Reagan and Bush were too busy having oral sex to do anything , I wonder why there wasn't any hearings into that ~;)

[Franconicus]

Seems to me we were hamstrung by a President too busy getting...well...you know
I didn't know Reagan and Bush were too busy having oral sex to do anything , I wonder why there wasn't any hearings into that ~;)
Make love, not war! ~;)

[Azi Tohak]

I'm sure I would have a witty comback if I wasn't laughing so hard.

Azi

[Tribesman]

I'm sure I would have a witty comback if I wasn't laughing so hard.

Do you have something to say , witty or otherwise ?
Or do you have nothing to say in case it would be completely lacking in substancce that might run the risk of being ripped apart in a witty way ?

Subject......Iraq war ....good luck ..... ~:cheers:

But seriously , Prole made this thread for good news , ....post away ....as I said earlier there is plenty of good news , if you want to show everyone how good it is then go ahead , but don,t try crappy little irrelevant comebacks that only deter from your aims like ceasar did with his Saddam killed people , or yourself did with the "oil for food" nonsense .

[Redleg]

[But seriously , Prole made this thread for good news , ....post away ....as I said earlier there is plenty of good news , if you want to show everyone how good it is then go ahead , but don,t try crappy little irrelevant comebacks that only deter from your aims like ceasar did with his Saddam killed people , or yourself did with the "oil for food" nonsense .

Or like you just did here. My-My someone has had to much to drink and is being so hypocritical tonight. A shot of coffee and a good nite sleep is what you need.

[Tribesman]

My-My someone has had to much to drink and is being so hypocritical tonight.
Well I wil not dispure the drink bit , but how is that post hypocritical in any way ? Have I posted any irrelevant comebacks ?

[Redleg]

My-My someone has had to much to drink and is being so hypocritical tonight.
Well I wil not dispure the drink bit , but how is that post hypocritical in any way ? Have I posted any irrelevant comebacks ?

Yep your last post - try reading it again when your sober - its not witty nor is it relevant to the subject of the thread.

[Azi Tohak]

One might say a personal attack on another forum member is an irrelevant comeback.

But I suppose I should have explained what I said. I was laughing at the thought of Reagan or Bush being distracted from state buisness by the same thing Clinton enjoyed. I'm sorry, but that is like my grandpa...that is just wrong. And then franconius with his make love not war...same thing with Bush and Reagan...eww... and I must say I thought it was funny.

Anyway, this another article from a soldier home from the war where I am working right now:


Home from the war
By Deb Gau
Independent Staff Writer

For the last several months, Doug Brunsvold has experienced dust, heat and separation from friends and family as an Army National Guard first sergeant serving in Iraq. But what stands out most to him, he says, is probably the Iraqi children.
“The kids are very open,” Brunsvold said of his experiences meeting Iraqi youth. “They’re very friendly children. Guys will basically adopt some to themselves in special cases.”
Positives, like the friendships and local improvements Brunsvold has seen in the Baghdad area, are seldom seen in media coverage of Iraq, Brunsvold said. But they are there, he told members of the Reflections Family Readiness Group gathered at the National Guard Armory in Marshall on Thursday night. Brunsvold attended the meeting while on a 15-day leave from active duty.
Reflections is a support group made up of family and friends of local soldiers, organized by Brunsvold’s wife Carmen. The group has met monthly since the Battery “A” 1-151 Field Artillery Battalion was deployed last fall.
“We’re called ‘Reflections’ because we’re the reflections of the soldiers,” Carmen Brunsvold explained.
Doug Brunsvold answered questions from the group at Thursday’s meeting. One of the first questions raised was when will the battalion come home. To avoid rumors, Brunsvold stressed that nothing is certain yet. In the worst-case scenario, it could stay in Iraq until March 2006, he said.
“There are no promises for when we’re gonna come home,” Brunsvold said. “But we’re gonna come home.”
So far, the troops’ morale is pretty good, Brunsvold said. The unit is mainly providing support and training for Iraqi police in Baghdad, he said.
Brunsvold said the area is slowly starting to improve as a result of the training.
“We’ve instilled some pride into the Iraqi police officers,” he said.
Soldiers are also getting to know the local people, he said. Many Iraqis have offered the soldiers help, translating or pointing out explosive devices on the roads.
“We have a lot of good working relationships,” Brunsvold said. “We’ve made friends with a lot of them.”
Even with local support, the troops are being careful, Brunsvold said. Alertness is vital in an unstable and dangerous environment.
“They’re all very serious about their jobs,” Brunsvold said. “Your alertness is increased, because the only one you can rely on is you.”
Living conditions for the soldiers are comfortable, though a lot less temperate than in the States, Brunsvold said. The summer weather in Iraq, he said, is like a constant blast of heat from an oven broiler. Temperatures of over a hundred degrees are normal.
“Our interpreter classifies August as ‘the time of two hells,’” Brunsvold told the group. But the heat isn’t too bad, he added — air conditioning inside headquarters and barracks keeps temperatures down to about 80 degrees.
Brunsvold also has access to the Internet, and is able to contact Carmen every day while overseas. He says he also keeps in touch with his sons Eric and Quentin, both members of his unit, although not as often because of differing work duties.
Brunsvold said he didn’t really have to change gears when he returned to Minnesota, although he was glad to have a change from Iraq’s desert landscape.
“I was looking forward to some green for a long time,” he said.
Brunsvold returns to Iraq on Wednesday, but in the meantime he’s been catching up with friends and family. He took a trip to Bismarck, N.D., to visit his mother, and attended the Marshall Fire Department picnic.
Brunsvold said that everyday conditions in Iraq are getting better, but gradually. He used to see long lines of people on the street waiting to buy fuel, but not as much any more. The streets have a little less garbage on them, and the police are getting more effective.
“You don’t see the positive,” he said, referring to American media coverage. “It’s a slow process, but it’s getting better.”
As residents fight it, city may award street bids
By Rae Kruger
Independent Staff Writer

The source is http://www.marshallindependent.com/ but I don't like navigating the site myself. Small budget, but I am sure you can find it okay.

So the Oil for Food program was set up by some UN nations to try to get food to the poor or Iraq. Why the hell should I have to pay for that if the nation is perfectly capable of paying for the food itself? The reason I don't like that program is because the same thing happened with it that always happens with any program the west sets up to try and help poor. The rich take all the money. It just seemed silly to me to make Hussein wealthier than he already is, but hey, if the lefties thought that would stop Hussein butchering his people good for them. Did it work?

And what exactly did Ireland do about Iraq? Get toasted and forget there was such a thing. It must be very easy to attack other nations when yours barely rates as the UKs chew toy. I also love that you lack any foreign policy other than to cause as few ripples as possible. Way to change the world one whiskey at a time right?

Azi

[Proletariat]

Saddam's genocidal rampage is over?

The Oil For Food fiasco which was starving the Iraqi people, yet kept the baneful Baathists in power to feed dissenters into wood chippers is over?

Gee, those have no place in a 'Good News' in Iraq thread.

:dizzy2:


I was not living before the 9th of April and now I am, so let me speak!

http://afreeiraqi.blogspot.com/

Ali sends his regards, from Iraq.

[Tribesman]

Yep your last post - try reading it again when your sober - its not witty nor is it relevant to the subject of the thread.
Not relevant ?
Not relevant to the subject of "good news" but entirely relevant when people say "oh but Saddam killed more" or "I don't want to pay for Oil for food" .
misrepresentation and twisted logic will be countered in any thread , no matter what the title of the thread is .

As Prole has now put it
Saddam's genocidal rampage is over?
Yes congratulations , but perhaps it would have been better if you hadn't helped him when he was doing his genocidal rampaging .

The Oil For Food fiasco which was starving the Iraqi people, yet kept the baneful Baathists in power to feed dissenters into wood chippers is over?
The fiasco that was set up by your government , exploited by your businessmen and circumvented by your allies with your assistance .

So if you want to , tell me some good news , don't just tell me bad news that isn't happening anymore when your government(among others) was the bastards that was aiding it happening in the first place , like it is some major achievement .
Hey good news everyone we are no longer supporting a crazy dictator , so sorry to all those people who unfortunately got killed , but hey thats politics , your families can now have a temporary reprieve until we decide to back the next crazy dictator who may be coming your way .


One might say a personal attack on another forum member is an irrelevant comeback.
Sorry Azi , I didn't mean it that way , it just came out wrong due to the state of mind I am in at the moment (no Redleg , it isn't just drinking that can affect your state of mind , incidents can have bearing aswell), it wasn't a very pleasant night in the end and I was feeling slightly uptight . But that aside , if the tone of the post may be off the underlying meaning is still true .

[JAG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4718717.stm

Great news keeps coming.

[Franconicus]

What's great about it?

[JAG]

What's great about it?

Sarcasm really is such a British thing.

[Franconicus]

Sarcasm really is such a British thing.
Right! We Europeans prefer subtle irony. ~;)
Why don't you choose another thread for your sarcasm?

[JAG]

I am sarcastic in many threads - and here it is so apt.

[Franconicus]

No, it ain't!

[JAG]

Is.

[Redleg]

Yep your last post - try reading it again when your sober - its not witty nor is it relevant to the subject of the thread.
Not relevant ?
Not relevant to the subject of "good news" but entirely relevant when people say "oh but Saddam killed more" or "I don't want to pay for Oil for food" .
misrepresentation and twisted logic will be countered in any thread , no matter what the title of the thread is .

Yep not relevant to the discussion - just like my comment is not revelant to the discussion.

You pointed out an arguement directed at an individual because you did not like their comment. And it seems you dont like it direct at you. Countering an arguement with facts is revelant - countering an arguement with a personal attack is not. That you hide it behind sarcasm - still makes it irrevelant.




As Prole has now put it
Saddam's genocidal rampage is over?
Yes congratulations , but perhaps it would have been better if you hadn't helped him when he was doing his genocidal rampaging .


So Saddam was a good guy in your opinion now. Yea (and yes I am being sarcastic)



The Oil For Food fiasco which was starving the Iraqi people, yet kept the baneful Baathists in power to feed dissenters into wood chippers is over?
The fiasco that was set up by your government , exploited by your businessmen and circumvented by your allies with your assistance .


Try again - the fiasco was set up by

http://www.un.org/Depts/oip/background/index.html


Resolution 986: On 14 April 1995, acting under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, the Security Council adopted resolution 986, establishing the "oil-for-food" programme, providing Iraq with another opportunity to sell oil to finance the purchase of humanitarian goods, and various mandated United Nations activities concerning Iraq. The programme, as established by the Security Council, is intended to be a "temporary measure to provide for the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people, until the fulfillment by Iraq of the relevant Security Council resolutions, including notably resolution 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991".

It looks like you can also point the blame at Russia, France, Britian, and every other member of the Security Council - not just the United States.





So if you want to , tell me some good news , don't just tell me bad news that isn't happening anymore when your government(among others) was the bastards that was aiding it happening in the first place , like it is some major achievement .

And that means you have to stop mentioning all the past activities concerning Iraq also.



Hey good news everyone we are no longer supporting a crazy dictator , so sorry to all those people who unfortunately got killed , but hey thats politics , your families can now have a temporary reprieve until we decide to back the next crazy dictator who may be coming your way .

Your trying to hard to be sacrastic.



One might say a personal attack on another forum member is an irrelevant comeback.
Sorry Azi , I didn't mean it that way , it just came out wrong due to the state of mind I am in at the moment (no Redleg , it isn't just drinking that can affect your state of mind , incidents can have bearing aswell), it wasn't a very pleasant night in the end and I was feeling slightly uptight . But that aside , if the tone of the post may be off the underlying meaning is still true .

More then aware of everything that can effect your state of mind. Drinking makes it worse when faced with certain circumstances.

[Azi Tohak]

Thanks for the link for the Oil for Food. I need to check that out when I've got time...

Azi

[Azi Tohak]

I think this is good news. Hey, at least Iran is talking to someone!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163503,00.html

Sorry to dissapoint you JAG, no dead civilians here.

Azi

[JAG]

No need to disappoint me, I never want deaths, it is you and your cronies that scream death and intolerance for arabs and muslims, whether they be in Iraq, Palestine or in our nations.

However, let us post a link and read about the daily attacks which now occur in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4722307.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4721719.stm

Oh and look at this, more mistreatment by US forces, of Iraqis!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4723035.stm

Great news, it isn;t as if that will be continually used by terrorists for new recruits!

[Redleg]

No need to disappoint me, I never want deaths, it is you and your cronies that scream death and intolerance for arabs and muslims, whether they be in Iraq, Palestine or in our nations.

Oh look at the nice little idiotic comment. Poor intolerant Jag

So Jag who are his cronies and who is screaming for the death of arabs and muslims? A little hyperbole on your part.

[Ser Clegane]

No need to disappoint me, I never want deaths, it is you and your cronies that scream death and intolerance for arabs and muslims, whether they be in Iraq, Palestine or in our nations.

I think the same rule should be applied here as in the "Palestine and the Left" thread.
It seems you are using the same broad brush for painting as Prager and his fans do when talking about "the world's left".
I think it would significantly improve the discussions in the Backroom if people would switch to finer tools (the general style in the Backroom certainly suffered during the lasts weeks)

[Tribesman]

It looks like you can also point the blame at Russia, France, Britian, and every other member of the Security Council - not just the United States.
Yes , but there does seem to be a lack of posters from those nations that bring the subject up , when they do they will get the same treatment .

[Redleg]

It looks like you can also point the blame at Russia, France, Britian, and every other member of the Security Council - not just the United States.
Yes , but there does seem to be a lack of posters from those nations that bring the subject up , when they do they will get the same treatment .

Ah but only blaming those that post from the United States makes your arguement well meaningless - especially since there are many posters here from Britian and a few from france and Russia. However it seems you rather just point your finger at america - forgetting the other three that point in your direction of the woods.

[JAG]

I think the same rule should be applied here as in the "Palestine and the Left" thread.
It seems you are using the same broad brush for painting as Prager and his fans do when talking about "the world's left".
I think it would significantly improve the discussions in the Backroom if people would switch to finer tools (the general style in the Backroom certainly suffered during the lasts weeks)

You are right. :bow:

[Tribesman]

Ah but only blaming those that post from the United States makes your arguement well meaningless -
I bow to your superior wisdom Redleg , in future I will debate issues with people who havn't mentioned the issues .
That should be fun ~:confused:

But since you think that I ignore the actions of other governments then perhaps you could look at the full statement that you quoted ? I know you don't want to as it shows that your criticism is invalid .... two simple little words....I wonder what they can be ?......oh yes here it is .....
when your government(among others)
....so there you go , definate proof that I only criticise the actions of the US government , and would never ever criticise any other government . :dizzy2:

Its a little bit like the time you accused me of biasdly criticising the arms deal with Saddam that was linked to nuclear co-operation , you said I was being falsely critical of the US when I was actually being criitical of the French government ~D ~D ~D

[Redleg]

Ah but only blaming those that post from the United States makes your arguement well meaningless -
I bow to your superior wisdom Redleg , in future I will debate issues with people who havn't mentioned the issues .
That should be fun ~:confused:

[sarcasm on]Yes I have always know that my wisdom is far superior to yours.[sarcasm off]



But since you think that I ignore the actions of other governments then perhaps you could look at the full statement that you quoted ? I know you don't want to as it shows that your criticism is invalid .... two simple little words....I wonder what they can be ?......oh yes here it is .....
when your government(among others)

Nice try - but here is what you stated.

The fiasco that was set up by your government , exploited by your businessmen and circumvented by your allies with your assistance .

No mention of others at all now is there. Come on Tribesman you can counter me better then that. I know you have it in you. ~D
[sarcasm on] Unless of course you wish to bow before my superior wisdom once again[sarcasm off]



....so there you go , definate proof that I only criticise the actions of the US government , and would never ever criticise any other government . :dizzy2:

Yes - I know you make yourself dizzy all the time. You might want to slow down on the consumption of achocal, it will help stabilize your balance and the rooms will stop spinning - lessing the dizzy effect of drinking to much.



Its a little bit like the time you accused me of biasdly criticising the arms deal with Saddam that was linked to nuclear co-operation , you said I was being falsely critical of the US when I was actually being criitical of the French government ~D ~D ~D

Actually in my senitly of old age - I have forgotten that arguement - maybe you should find that thread and link it to refresh my memory. But I am sure its more in line that you were over critical of the United States when it was a french arms deal. And [sarcasm on] since you have already admitted that my wisdom and knowledge is superior to yours, you must bow before my superiority [sarcasm off] I therefor must be correct and you are wrong.

Have a nice day and don't forget to[sarcasm on] bow before my superior wisdom.[sarcasm off]

By the way - you just added a new line to my sig. LOL ~:handball:

[Tribesman]

The fiasco that was set up by your government , exploited by your businessmen and circumvented by your allies with your assistance .
So if you want to , tell me some good news , don't just tell me bad news that isn't happening anymore when your government(among others) was the bastards that was aiding it happening in the first place , like it is some major achievement .
Nice try Redleg , buy some glasses and wear them .
No mention of others at all now is there. :book: ~D ~D ~D

[Redleg]

The fiasco that was set up by your government , exploited by your businessmen and circumvented by your allies with your assistance .
So if you want to , tell me some good news , don't just tell me bad news that isn't happening anymore when your government(among others) was the bastards that was aiding it happening in the first place , like it is some major achievement .
Nice try Redleg , buy some glasses and wear them .
No mention of others at all now is there. :book: ~D ~D ~D

LOL - I guess I did miss that sentence - goes to call his eye doctor to get his eyes checked again.


Thats what I get for attempting to take a sentence out of context.

However I am keeping the Sig - it might be good for some laughs along the way.