Hvitramannaland?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Hvitramannaland (White Man's Land), or Greater Ireland, as mentioned in the old Norse accounts of there travels to America. Can anyone tell me where exactly its supposed to have been?

[VAE VICTUS]

maybe vinland,or newfoundland?

[Sigurd]

Hvítramannaland was a land known to the Norse that is certain. I wish I had greater knowledge about it. The only thing I know is that I have seen it two places. In Eiríks saga rauða and in the Landnåmabok. In Eiríks saga rauða, they take two young Native American Indians and teach them the Norse language. The kids give information about Vinland and they tell that two kings rule skrælingene (the Norse name for the Indians, it means a feeble person) one is named Avaldamon and the other Avaldidida. They also speak of a people living on the other side of this land where they walk in white clothes, carries poles with pennants and shouts. The author notes this could probably be Hvítramannaland.

In Landnåmabok a Viking by the name Are Mårsson is caught in a storm and is wrecked on Hvítramannaland. He mentions this land lays near Vineland the good and that it is 6 days voyage there. The impression is that it is an island, but all new lands are assumed to be an island on first encounter. It is safe to say it was a land/island that was distinguished from Iceland, Ireland, Greenland, Helluland, Markland and Vinland even though some suggest that Hvítramannaland was Ireland (did the Norse find the Irish that pale?).

[Sigurd]

Alright, I have done some digging around, asking some questions and dived into the sagas again.

Are you ready for this? …

It seems Hvítramannaland was west of Vinland and hence referred to a part of mainland US or Canada. The clues lie in the sagas and especially Eiríks saga rauða, Landnámabók, Eyrbyggja Saga and the annals of Greenland.

The sagas tell of at least three different encounters with this Hvítramannaland.
Landnámabók speaks of Ari Marsson (Are Mårsson) that shipwrecked on Hvítramannaland at about 983 AD.
Eiríks saga rauða speaks of Thorfinn Karlsefni who in 1007 AD looked for Leif the lucky’s houses in Vinland and took the two American-Indians kids with strange Irish-like names.
The Eyrbyggja Saga speaks of Gudleif Gudlaugson an Icelander who set out of Dublin heading west and was driven by storm like Are Mårsson to a land furhter west in about 1026AD. They met a strange people speaking the Erse tongue (Irish). They reasoned that they must have landed in Irland Mikla (Ireland the Great). The people there took them captive and discussed what they should do with them. Some obviously wanted to kill them, others wanted them for slaves. A couple of riders came and all of the bickering people fell silent.
Amongst the riders a big man stricken with years, with a long white beard and apparently their chief asked them where they came from. When they answered Iceland, he started speaking Norse to them. He wouldn’t say who he was when they asked because he wouldn’t let other Icelanders return to investigate. He said: "As you can see these people are quite hostile towards your kind".
Other sources says that Are Mårsson was not allowed to depart Hvítramannaland and was baptised there (was he the same person as the old man?).

Farley Mowat’s “The Farfarers” claim that there were a sea faring people called Albans on the isles of the north(Faeroe Islands, Orkney and Iceland) before the Viking expansion.
Both the Annals of Greenland (11th century) and Landnámabók equalises Hvítramannaland, Albania and Greater Ireland.

The Icelandic history speaks of a band of Irish monks called Culdees: “In this self-same year (795AD) there appeared in Iceland bands of Culdees or Irish monks who wore white robes and used bells and books and croziers and who marched in procession, bearing banners on long poles and shouting or chanting as they marched”. These were driven out of Iceland by the arrival of the Norwegian Vikings.
Compare this to the story of the two young Native Americans in Eiríks saga rauða(1007AD): “They also speak of a people living on the other side of this land where they walk in white clothes, carry poles with pennants and shouts”.
There have been found old remnants of settlements in Massachusetts and New Hampshire that they ascribe to ancient Irish stonework where one of the famous ones are located in North Salem.

It seems that the Irish were in fact the first Europeans in the new world if all that is suggested here is true. It seems that the sagas agree.
So, it seems Hvítramannaland could be the New England area of the North American continent.

[GoreBag]

Well, anything Farley Mowat says should be discounted, since he's not exactly a historian. A good writer, though.

Some of this seems kind of similar to the evidence provided in the thread about Madoc, a Welsh 'colony' in North America around 1087.

[Sigurd]

Well, anything Farley Mowat says should be discounted, since he's not exactly a historian. A good writer, though.

Some of this seems kind of similar to the evidence provided in the thread about Madoc, a Welsh 'colony' in North America around 1087.Was it not in 1170AD he began his voyage from Wales?
It could have been interesting to have a re-run of that discussion now that I have some meat on the bone.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Heres the thread in question dude:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=47440&highlight=madoc