View Full Version : Countdown to Open Beta - Tabula Orbis Terrae
The Wizard
07-11-2005, 02:44
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!
As I’m sure you’ve noticed by now, this is a different kind of preview. As of late, EB has been concentrating more on scripting and other matters which never have gotten a lot of the limelight when a preview came around. Therefore, we decided to show you some of this in stead of the usual faction highlight.
Thanks go out to Stormy and Eadingas for taking and uploading the screenshots. Big thanks once again go out to Teleklos Archelaou, this time for making the antiquated map, complete with ancient monsters et cetera. And, of course, props and kudos are due to the map making team, which has done a wonderful job.
Still, EB is a team effort and this preview is a product of all our efforts.
This week, the EB team is proud to present:
https://img290.imageshack.us/img290/18/mapantique44af.th.jpg (https://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapantique44af.jpg) https://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7043/mapantique4big7ib.th.jpg (https://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mapantique4big7ib.jpg)
To the left is a smaller in size map, to the right is a larger one.
Please take into account that this is a work in progress. We are very close to completion of the map, but this map is subject to changed nevertheless.
A comment on the mountain ranges. As some of you have probably noticed, mountain passes are not accurately depicted in Rome Total War. We cannot accurately depict them completely either: we must cut a relatively flat path through a mountain range. That is also why we cannot make as many passes as there are in real life, to keep a homogenous mountain range. We need to have roads go through, but they can’t go through without a relatively flat space. So that is why the map has fractured mountain ranges.
Now, here are some pictures of the varied terrain of the world that is Europa Barbarorum:
http://img7.echo.cx/img7/7305/image17sj.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image17sj.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/3933/image25ng.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image25ng.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/8989/image36wa.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image36wa.jpg)
http://img7.echo.cx/img7/6259/image44yu.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image44yu.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/567/image53mn.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image53mn.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/8761/image61zv.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image61zv.jpg)
http://img7.echo.cx/img7/2082/image94ve.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image94ve.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/9518/image112fk.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image112fk.jpg)http://img7.echo.cx/img7/8484/image133ay.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image133ay.jpg)
http://img7.echo.cx/img7/2171/image142la.th.jpg (http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image142la.jpg)http://img206.echo.cx/img206/475/forests9bp.th.jpg (http://img206.echo.cx/my.php?image=forests9bp.jpg)
Here we’ll compare the landscapes of Europa Barbarorum to the real thing over two thousand years later:
http://img10.echo.cx/img10/8112/assyria0vi.th.jpg (http://img10.echo.cx/img10/8112/assyria0vi.jpg)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/th_khorsabad02.jpg (https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/khorsabad02.jpg)
http://img297.echo.cx/img297/5056/nafghan3wn.th.jpg (http://img297.echo.cx/img297/5056/nafghan3wn.jpg)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/th_mountains-afghanistan.jpg (https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/mountains-afghanistan.jpg)
http://img297.echo.cx/img297/9674/rjordan1uw.th.jpg (http://img297.echo.cx/img297/9674/rjordan1uw.jpg)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/th_Dec.gif (https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/Dec.gif)
https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/368/tatry8bh.th.jpg (https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/368/tatry8bh.jpg)
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/th_tatry5pk.jpg (https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/Odomaris/Europa%20Barbarorum%20space/tatry5pk.jpg)
We hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s update!
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our previews are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70)
Or here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)
We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us/) and https://www.photobucket.com (https://www.photobucket.com/) that provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.
Have a great day!
Sincerely,
The Europa Barbarorum team
Sweet! This is so great... I think I shed a tear...
Superbus
07-11-2005, 03:02
For pete's sake, you latin scholars, you: noun before modifier.
Sinus Adriaticus and Pontus Euxinus are correct.
Mediterraneum Mare, Germanicum Mare, Persicus Sinus and all the rest are not .
"removed baiting attempt - barocca".
Teleklos Archelaou
07-11-2005, 03:15
Well, those are the exact names the Barrington Atlas of the Greek and Roman World (by far and away the best and most accurate map of the ancient world) uses. Sorry you don't like them. ~:)
Superbus
07-11-2005, 03:22
It's not that I don't like them. They're not correct.
I'm not about to make any great claims for my latin, but latin and every language descended from it puts the noun first and its modifier second. The inversion happens in english and probably german I think. Perhaps someone on your team has the latin expertise to come up with the appropriate term.
And anyway, at the very least the terms on the map should be consistent with one another, and they're not. That suggests one set is incorrect, no?
Of course, if this is part of EB's new emphasis on the barbarian element, that's different. But you should also put the "R"'s backward.
As for Barrington, I like the map fine. Better than fine.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-11-2005, 04:07
It's not that I don't like them. They're not correct.
I'm not about to make any great claims for my latin, but latin and every language descended from it puts the noun first and its modifier second. The inversion happens in english and probably german I think. Perhaps someone on your team has the latin expertise to come up with the appropriate term.
And anyway, at the very least the terms on the map should be consistent with one another, and they're not. That suggests one set is incorrect, no?
Of course, if this is part of EB's new emphasis on the barbarian element, that's different. But you should also put the "R"'s backward.
As for Barrington, I like the map fine. Better than fine.Good choice of a name to register here under as it is very fitting; kudos on that part. If you want to say that "the most important and most complicated project to be undertaken in classical studies this generation" is "ignint", then I think the "haughty" part is incredibly fitting. (Here are more reviews (http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/6773.html) in case you're interested) As I said, the names for the bodies of water come straight from the Barrington (the only change is noted below), making no attempt to name them in the languages of the local peoples since they really don't affect the game itself, just this map.
The name Mediterraneum Mare is used instead of Internum Mare, but the same adj.-noun order of Internum Mare is kept and the Barrington reference for the form and origin and correctness of name is to V. Burr, Nostrum Mare. Ursprung und Geschichte der Namen des Mittelmeeres und seiner Teilmeere im Altertum, Stuttgart, 1932.
Their name of the Germanicum Mare is referenced by the BA in Ptol. 2.3.4 (but Latin used as it is for all of these) and further referenced in the Der Kleine Pauly, Lexikon der Antike, 5 vols., Stuttgart, 1964-1975 under the entry "Nordsee".
Also, they give the reference of the form Persicus Sinus as being the Pauly-Wissowa, Real-Encyclopadie der klassischen Altertumswissenschaft, Stuttgart, 1893-1978, as well as in F. Vallat, Les noms geographiques de sources suso-elamites, Beihefte zum TAVO Reihe B Repertoire Geographique des Textes Cuneiformes, Tubingen, 1993: 8, 227.
I don't feel like listing all the rest, but I hope that my point is taken.
Marinakis
07-11-2005, 05:28
HOLY &$% GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..... this brings tears of joy to my eyes!!
EB just took the lead ahead of RTR
AMAZING JOB WITH THE NATIVE NAMES!!!!
~:eek: Woot! You guys are really swell! :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:
Quick questions:
How many provinces are there again?
and
Are those forest passable? ~:)
ScionTheWorm
07-11-2005, 07:21
marvellous. the scenarios are really beautiful and the campaign world map is just amazing. really like what you've done with the south there
thrashaholic
07-11-2005, 08:32
Could I inquire as to the lack of rivers in Britain? Everywhere else on your fine map seems well endowed with rivers, but Britain does not. From what I can tell none of the major waterways in Britain, such as the Severn, the Thames and the Trent, have been included.
They may not be as long or globally significant as mainland rivers, but they were of tactical and strategic importance here, and since you are going for accuracy, I'd have thought you'd have included them. Since this is a work in progress (and a very good one at that) I hope you can fix this little 'error'.
Birka Viking
07-11-2005, 08:37
Great work.....This is marvellous...Keep up the good work EB....... :bow: :bow: :bow:
Will you implement this map into the game?It looks realy nice.Ar those forrests passable?
Copperhaired Berserker!
07-11-2005, 10:31
awesome stuff, but one thing. the baktrian capital ( by the looks of it ) is spelled wrong. you need a "i" in the middle of "r" and "a" .
eadingas
07-11-2005, 11:02
Could I inquire as to the lack of rivers in Britain? Everywhere else on your fine map seems well endowed with rivers, but Britain does not. From what I can tell none of the major waterways in Britain, such as the Severn, the Thames and the Trent, have been included.
They're all there, they're just obscured by the writing :)
Very nice work. :)
The map looks promising.
About the debate on the place of the noun... I don't speak latin, but i've learnt it like 2 months (before giving up, not enough time) and iirc, what i was told was that there is no formal order for the words of a sentence (since it's usually done to know what word stand for what and that's what the endings are for in latin), if it seems it was more classy to put the verb at the end of a sentence, it wasn't required (at least that's what i was told...).
For instance, in history, I've always heard of Nostrum Mare as Mare Nostrum (contrary to the practice of the modern romance languages), so i think this discussion is irrelevant in fact, and to my (limited) knowledge both forms may be correct.
However if i said any bulls**t please enlighten me, i like linguistic :) (and i am, by far, not an expert :( ).
A sincere thank you to the EB team for the excellent work on the world map and individual maps.
I take it the location maps (river jordan, etc.) are for custom battles. Tell me you didn't (GASP) re-tile the entire world with new maps for each tile?!!! That was one claim from CA that had disappointed me before... I eagerly await battle maps that reflect the macromap terrain features. If you have actually done this massive retooling, for that alone I cannot thank you enough. What a significant contribution to the RTW community!
Thanks again.
ENSAIS.
eadingas
07-11-2005, 12:00
We did no such thing (yet), what you see are screenshots of the map as it is made using only regular map editing.
CA actually did a very good job with the way battlemap is rendered using campaign map. It's just that they didn't use these features well in vanilla. You can do the map very detailed even without custom tiling.
Greek_fire19
07-11-2005, 13:49
Are there some new terrain types? whats that greyish snow that covers part of germany in winter time?
not to sound horrible but i think superbus may be right, it just sounds wrong (not a good argument i know).
i am sure they have been put in many different ways, because i can remember distincly doing translations that featured the 'mare nostrum', so all i would say is that it just sounds clumsy.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-11-2005, 14:18
awesome stuff, but one thing. the baktrian capital ( by the looks of it ) is spelled wrong. you need a "i" in the middle of "r" and "a" .The transliteration of the greek word would be Baktra. This is the capital we are talking about, not the satrapy/province/kingdom, which is still Baktria. But Baktra was the city itself, and it doesn't have an iota. Check a little more out on it here:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0064&layout=&loc=bactra
You can see the word in parentheses after the initial (Latin) "Bactra" is "ta Baktra" which is the greek. It's a great website by the way! Hope this helps; I honestly am thrilled that there is a difference between the two - it has made referring to them a little easier than having both be the exact same. ~:cheers:
The Stranger
07-11-2005, 14:51
no need for me to check.
I agree with Superbus on the names, it is Mare Nostrum just like it is Pontus Euxinus. This is how I've always seen it in my 5 years of Latin. Next year will be my 6th year I do Latin so i'm pretty sure Superbus has a point.
KingOfTheIsles
07-11-2005, 16:19
Wasn't the term "Mare mediterraneum" first coined by Saint Isidore of Seville in the 7th century, in any case? I've seen it referred to as mare mediterraneum more often than mediterraneum mare, but it seems somehow inappropriate to use this term in any case. Still, it's up to the team to decide on the correct terminology used.
eadingas
07-11-2005, 16:21
It doesn't really matter anyway, you know, the names of seas don't appear in the game anywhere
Awesome looking landscapes! ~:cheers:
It doesn't really matter anyway, you know, the names of seas don't appear in the game anywhere
wasn't it your signature who said realism in everything :inquisitive: ~;) ?
Teleklos Archelaou
07-11-2005, 18:31
Anyone pay attention to the references I cited above? ~:confused:
I guess complaining about it without actually doing the research is ok, but when the research is presented and then things like "well, I think it's wrong maybe" or something like that are still being stated, it is frustrating.
I pick up a copy of the Oxford Latin Dictionary and see examples of both Sinus Persicus and Rubrum Mare, of Persicum Aruspicium and Sinum Persicum, of Persico Maro and Persica Braca all next to each other in the same entry. There are some rules guiding latin adjective/noun word order, but they are often broken for various reasons (which occasionaly are not even understood, but which sometimes are), and so if you want to complain that Juvenal and Catullus and Ovid and Horace and Pliny and Curtius are wrong, and that the BA researchers don't know what they were doing (when they cite all that they do and took a decade to make it), then you better have some good arguments. Is Sinus Persicus right? Absolutely. Is Persicus Sinus right? Absolutely. Am I perfectly content to use the names the Barrington Atlas uses, given the extensive references they provide and the highest level of quality and competency the scholar who have put it together have shown? Yes, of course.
What did the Romans call the Caspian Sea in 272BC? I have no idea if they even had a name for it then. Did they call it the Mediterraneum Mare in 272? The answer is definitely no. It isn't used till the seventh or eighth century AD as far as I've seen, but then we don't have extant maps from until something like the 12th century anyway and they certainly wouldn't have had anything like we're looking at here, so arguments about some of the niceties of this map (e.g., the latin version of names of seas) and a hardcore attitude about realism should dictate that we have no map at all, and if we do, they would dictate that we form it to fit 272bc pereceptions of geography, in which case it's some round image with regions heavily distorted from what we know them as today - and thus we get back to the 'why even have it' idea. gah.
A little inquiry about a "cartographic bonus" is totally fine, and I was happy to answer the first question on this particular topic, but I'm more than a little tired of all the subsequent bickering about the names of the bodies of water, especially when none of the arguments has shown that any of the names were wrong in the first place, just that other versions would also be acceptable (with which argument I totally agree). Especially considering that no one else has taken the time to look up the variances or at the B.A. reference entries or the O.L.D. or any of the other stuff that I did in an attempt to explain it. :wall:
I guess I should have just posted this instead:
https://img316.imageshack.us/img316/6692/map1nofactions0js.th.gif (https://img316.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map1nofactions0js.gif)
Big_John
07-11-2005, 19:15
well i, for one, accept your explanation and respect your impeccable source, teleklos. ~:pat:
Greek_fire19
07-11-2005, 19:20
SwebMtraustastámnMz?
GáwjamHáttMz?
GáwjamRugMz?
GáwjamKimbrMz?
Seriously? Or are you just kidding?
...I hope they have catchy nicknames....
Big_John
07-11-2005, 19:34
those "M"s are supposed to be "o"s, i think. if you look at http://img7.echo.cx/my.php?image=image94ve.jpg you'll see those same cities have "o"s in place, and some of the "a"s lose their accents. it makes it a little easier. ~;) i'm guessing the "M"s come from a non-english version of the game or something? oddly, if you compare that first image i linked to this one http://img206.echo.cx/my.php?image=forests9bp.jpg, "gáwjám silengoz" becomes "limios alsos".. hm...
alman7272
07-11-2005, 19:44
To tell you the truth, I don't think it really matters if the modifier comes before or after the noun in most cases. I've seen it both ways.
Spendios
07-11-2005, 20:06
Amazing job on the map ! Your work is very impressive.
Most importantly, did you see in one of the screenshots, 3 factions have been destroyed? This could mean that EB have gone for a unified Rome.
Duncan_Hardy
07-11-2005, 20:38
It doesn't necessarily mean that 3 factions have been destroyed; lots of other messages are received in that manner, and it could just be a coincidence that there are three.
Anyway, looking good, can't wait!
Steppe Merc
07-11-2005, 21:00
Duncan has it correct, it's a conincedence.
Bouchious
07-11-2005, 21:53
niice, is the map at the top being used as the radaresque map in the bottom left of the screen during the game
Teleklos Archelaou
07-11-2005, 22:05
niice, is the map at the top being used as the radaresque map in the bottom left of the screen during the gameNo. That's a totally different one - you can see it on some of our screenshots. This would be too dark and cluttered for the minimap. And the maps at the startup are totally different ones from the others too. Lots of maps! hehe ~D
The Wizard
07-11-2005, 22:20
For pete's sake, you latin scholars, you: noun before modifier.
Sinus Adriaticus and Pontus Euxinus are correct.
Mediterraneum Mare, Germanicum Mare, Persicus Sinus and all the rest are not .
What iz ye, ignint? ~;)
In Latin it does not matter where you put what word. In our language it does, but with Latin it does not. Take a good look at your Ovidius or Vergilius again. ~;)
~Wiz
Superbus
07-11-2005, 22:44
In Latin it does not matter where you put what word. In our language it does, but with Latin it does not. Take a good look at your Ovidius or Vergilius again. ~;)
~Wiz
Thanks for the civil answer, Wiz. Is there something to be said for consistency in the map labels, though? As it stands, they come both ways.
Narayanese
07-11-2005, 23:23
Is there something to be said for consistency in the map labels, though?
In Ptolemy's not-so-antique atlas it sometimes come first, like in .Mare larmantuũ. (southern baltic sea), sometimes after, as in .Gottuũ mare. (called sarmaticus oceanus in the EB map).
My 3 cents.
The Wizard
07-12-2005, 00:55
Thanks for the civil answer, Wiz. Is there something to be said for consistency in the map labels, though? As it stands, they come both ways.
It doesn't really matter, both in RTW as in linguistics. The seas won't have names anyways. And the matter of where to put what kind of word is aesthetic when you're not talking about poetry, so what you like is up to you -- or in this case, our map-makers.
Besides, ancient maps were not held up to a universal standard, just like most (if not all) other works of science in the ancient world. Therefore it was entirely up to the map maker to decide what to call what. For instance, the North Sea was called, on and off, both 'Germanicum Mare' and 'Frisium Mare', since the Frisii were great seafarers. Both these terms were entirely interchangeable, as is the way their nouns and adjectives are put.
~Wiz
It's beautiful.
And as for Latin word order. For adjectives it usually goes after the noun, but if you want to emphasise the the adjective (which you would in the name of a sea) then the adjective would go first. Obviously this is completely subjective, but still, I trust EB to do things properly.
*bows* Keep doing the good work EB and you shall make a game worth crying for.
Foot
Beautiful map ~:)
Just wondering what the reasoning was behind using Caledryn as the spelling?
Secondly what is the settlement of Attuaca? Which archaeological site is it?
thrashaholic
07-12-2005, 15:58
Another query, why is the province containing Wales called 'Cymriae'? As far as I was aware Cymru (from which Cymriae' is clearly derived), the Welsh name for Wales, was coined after the English invasions to act as a unifying force. 'Cymry', meaning "fellow countrymen" then and "Welshman" now, was adopted to symbolise the British resistance to the Saxons, vastly out of RTW's and your mod's timescale. Cambria, or using the name of a tribe located in that province (eg the Ordovices or Silures) would be better and much less anachronistic.
Also, why is the province containing the Cornish peninusla called Cornovae when the two tribes occupying that area were called the Durotriges and Dumnonii, and the Cornovii lived in the north west of England (near Liverpool and Manchester of today)? It doesn't make much sense to me.
Lastly, I've checked the map again, and the river Severn, the largest and arguably most important river in Britain, has not been included, an oversight I hope will be corrected.
Sorry if I've sounded a bit off, but I'd like to see this mod be the best it can be and these little oversights detract from that.
QwertyMIDX
07-12-2005, 19:27
I talked to our map maker about the Severn months ago, I'm pretty sure we added it and if not you can rest asure it will be there in the final release.
Colovion
07-12-2005, 20:37
oh wow
<3
A lot of things are working titles, but the Cornovae thing is because it's 'Land of the People of the Horn'; still a working title, but Dumnonii is a purely Roman name, and the Durotriges weren't that important at the time, so a name for the region is more appropriate (I'm aware Cornovae isn't the best, but it's a fair enough working title for the time being). Cymru mostly for recognizability (I actually had the inverse problem when I ran the names by some people; I had thought of maybe Cambra, but that was not well recieved; I would like to see it changed though).
Caledryn; 'Place of Stone'; Caledonia is Latinized to an extent, so I've been going through different endings that mean 'place of' or 'people of', for something with a more appropriate Celtic feel.
Attuaca was recommended to me by a few people, I'm not totally sure of the details, except it was a fort in Caledonia of some apparent clout (I suppose maybe it was a trade center or something). I'll look into it though.
pezhetairoi
07-13-2005, 02:15
aaahaaaahaaaah *goes into orgasm*
Anyway. Could you guys provide pronounciation guides to all the names you use in EB? I would like to be able not just to write them out but also to run them off my tongue. And it would greatly help, I'm sure, with the barbarian names, which simply look STRANGE.
is there an actual timeframe for how long we have to wait to play the open beta, considering that this is a countdown.
btw, good work :)
Attuaca was recommended to me by a few people, I'm not totally sure of the details, except it was a fort in Caledonia of some apparent clout (I suppose maybe it was a trade center or something). I'll look into it though.
Cool. I'd be interested to know what the source is. I've never come across the name before in all my time working in the Scottish archaeological and heritage sector. But that would be explained if it was taking an existing place name and converting it to another language.
And re - Caledryn. I'm quite happy to bow to those with palaeo-linguistic knowledge on this one. From my point of view, it is an anachronistic term in the first place for the game starting period. But that can't be helped and is just one of the things that has to be endured when dealing with the both the limited evidence in Scottish Iron Age and the necessity of creating a computer game which by its nature requires certain features (a province name in this case)
Mikeus Caesar
07-13-2005, 19:27
Haha!! One of the towns in Spain is called 'Arse'!! Haha!!
Great map btw.
And re - Caledryn. I'm quite happy to bow to those with palaeo-linguistic knowledge on this one. From my point of view, it is an anachronistic term in the first place for the game starting period. But that can't be helped and is just one of the things that has to be endured when dealing with the both the limited evidence in Scottish Iron Age and the necessity of creating a computer game which by its nature requires certain features (a province name in this case)
I agree it's anachronism; all the names from the region will have to be. The concensus is, essentially: It's anachronistic to have Celtic names that just describe the area, but it's more anachronistic to have Latin names that do the same thing. The inhabitants would've had actual Celtic names for the different places, but we don't have access to those; need to work with what we have.
Aymar de Bois Mauri
07-13-2005, 20:01
Haha!! One of the towns in Spain is called 'Arse'!! Haha!!
Great map btw.In fact the pronounciation is "Arsé". So, a bit different from the meaning you imagine. ~:)
PSYCHO V
07-14-2005, 04:53
In fact the pronounciation is "Arsé". So, a bit different from the meaning you imagine. ~:)
I second Amyar. Arsé is a town in spain, Arse is what I generally make of myself.
~;)
Beautiful work as usuall Teleklos Archelaou !
Azi Tohak
07-15-2005, 19:41
All I can think right now is that size DOES matter.
But that also brings up another point. I won't give a rats if corruption is gutting my revenue. Have you guys changed corruption any? Sorry if this has been spoken of before.
Also, any chance of getting some...ummm...nicer names for some of the barbarian towns? I'm going to hurt myself if I try to pronounce them. I wonder if it is possible in a town ID to give it a set up like this:
Hard Name (Easy name)
Just curious.
Fantastic works guys. Thanks to CA for lettings us (forgetting to disable?) change maps. ~:grouphug:
Azi
eadingas
07-15-2005, 20:16
Why is "Popeye" translated as "Cocles" ?
Azi Tohak
07-15-2005, 21:10
He he he...someone finally pays attention to my sig.
To be honest, I don't know. I've never taken latin before, this is what a friend of mine told me she learned in latin. Do you know if there is a better translation?
I just think it is funny.
Azi
Just a small Question @Azi Tohak: Which Names exactly to you find hard to pronounce? Mostly the German Names i guess? Personally i have much more problems with all that Eastern Names.
Azi Tohak
07-15-2005, 21:21
Anything starting with "Gawjam" (sorry, I don't know how to do the accents). They just look so odd to me. I don't care about pronouncing them correctly (honestly, who is ever going to hear me, nevermind correct me with these), but I'm just confused. Also there is the: swebotraustastamnoz. What in the heck is that?
I know this is being pedantic, but what I was asking was maybe if the cities have a modern name, to maybe give me the modern name in parens ( )? For example, swebotraustastamnoz may be Berlin (heck if I can tell), but that would be easier for me. Most of the eastern names I can fake (just use good old phonetics).
I wonder...are these names from a separate language group? Not indo-european, but maybe the Finno-ugric (is that even close?) language group? That would help explain why I think they look so odd.
Thanks,
Azi
eadingas
07-15-2005, 21:30
Germanic names are Germanic, so they are IE (although I've read theories that say otherwise). The only fenno-ugric names on the map are Sapmi and Asodat.
Try to divide the words into phrases, it should be easier this way, Swebotraustastamnoz ("Swebian Trust(alliance)", IIRC) is no more (or less) difficult than your typical modern german panzerkampfwagen or schnellfeuerwaffe :)
Germanic names are Germanic, so they are IE (although I've read theories that say otherwise). The only fenno-ugric names on the map are Sapmi and Asodat.
Try to divide the words into phrases, it should be easier this way, Swebotraustastamnoz ("Swebian Trust(alliance)", IIRC) is no more (or less) difficult than your typical modern german panzerkampfwagen or schnellfeuerwaffe :)
quite close eadingas ~;)
Swebotraustastamnoz means "Alliance of suebian tribes" literally.
@Azi Tohak
b.t.w. germanics never lived in cities till the romans build some, so there is no sense to give them romanized names, if they didn't exist in this timeframe.
Treverum or others are all former roman forts.
Azi Tohak
07-16-2005, 05:39
Ah ha! Well..okay. I can buy that. But wow, I am surprised you guys have the resources to name each 'city' (even if it is not quite a roman idea of a city) with what are probably accurate names for the peoples living there.
Where on earth do you get that information from? That atlas? But where did that data come from?
Azi
Safe and eadingas are you familiar with the theory that some germanic tribes in the western part of Germany (Cheruski,Chatti etc..) are not of Germanic origin but another IE group or maybe even a Old european people.
Wikipedia link Nordwestblock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock)
I am interested EB stance about this theory is and if and how it will be refected in EB.
eadingas
07-16-2005, 16:45
As I said, I've read about it, but what I've read doesn't have enough backup to include into EB in any form. There are some interesting linguistic differences, but I'm not sure if there's anything more to it... but of course I'm not a specialist in Germanic history. Maybe Safe knows more about it.
Greek_fire19
07-17-2005, 00:13
Theres a camel in one of your lakes.
The one south of the aral sea and east of the caspian sea.
Fix it at once. ~;)
Malrubius
07-17-2005, 00:33
That's actually a heretofore unknown amphibious transportation craft, recently discovered by one of our members on an aquatic dig. She'll be publishing her findings after the mod is released next year. I'd tell you what it's called, but I can't even spell it, because no one knows how except her. All I know is that it could store a lot of potable water in case of being lost at sea or becalmed, or if it was blockading a port.
BaRtMaN_SLO
07-18-2005, 13:00
Hello, very happy to finally see the worldmap.
I have just one comment about the placement of one town/city in Pannonia. Emona (today known as Ljubljana, capital of Slovenia) is placed where today Zagreb (the capital of Croatia) stands. I don't know if the displacement is only in the artistic map or in the game itself, but if it's like this in the game, please fix it.
Emona should stand directly north of Segestica, perhaps even a bit to Segestica's northwest!
Great effort on this mod, it shall not go unplayed, I can assure you! ~:cheers:
eadingas
07-18-2005, 13:22
Thanks for noticing. I believe it's also on the wrong side of the river (Sava), now that I look at the map of Slovenia, isn't it? Will correct ASAP.
I think Segestica needs moving too, it's nowhere near todays Sisak... I haven't checked that part of the map for a while, there's a couple of errors there that slipped past me. Well, that's what the Beta version is for :)
Is Sisak on left or right side of Sava?
BaRtMaN_SLO
07-18-2005, 14:11
Both cities are actually very close to the river Sava. Ljubljana has already grown and reached Sava with it's northern edge, while Emona lay a few kilometers south of Sava, since it wasn't as big as Ljubljana today. Sisak also lies by Sava. Here are two very informative maps:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/croatia_pol01.jpg
http://www.europe-atlas.com/croatia-map.htm
BTW, free maps here: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/
Google is the king! Long live the king! :bow:
More about Emona here: http://www.ljubljana.si/en/ljubljana/history/emona/default.html
In latin the name is actually Iulia Aemona.
One comment though... I see that you've removed Thessaloniki from the map... i realize that it would be too cramped in Makedonia to include both Pella and Thessaloniki (like in RTR and they ended up putting Thessaloniki in a wrong place), but at the time you're placing it, wasn't Thessaloniki already starting to get the reigns from Pella as the dominant city in Makedonia?
eadingas
07-19-2005, 10:33
Both cities are actually very close to the river Sava. Ljubljana has already grown and reached Sava with it's northern edge, while Emona lay a few kilometers south of Sava, since it wasn't as big as Ljubljana today. Sisak also lies by Sava. Here are two very informative maps:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/croatia_pol01.jpg
http://www.europe-atlas.com/croatia-map.htm
BTW, free maps here: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/
Google is the king! Long live the king! :bow:
More about Emona here: http://www.ljubljana.si/en/ljubljana/history/emona/default.html
In latin the name is actually Iulia Aemona.
Thanks. I've moved Segestica to a more accurate location, by the river (have to remember to put it on Kopa river when we start making custom locations, some time in the future :) (like, next year ;) I think we'll be dropping Emona altogether, in favour of something older and more Pannonian, like Vindobona or Arrabona, we'll see.
cunctator
07-19-2005, 17:33
thanks to Teleklos Archelaou Google earth data i realised that Gawjam Hattoz it`s far more north than i suspected. Near modern Kassel.
Teleklos Archelaou
07-19-2005, 18:54
One comment though... I see that you've removed Thessaloniki from the map... i realize that it would be too cramped in Makedonia to include both Pella and Thessaloniki (like in RTR and they ended up putting Thessaloniki in a wrong place), but at the time you're placing it, wasn't Thessaloniki already starting to get the reigns from Pella as the dominant city in Makedonia?Pella had been the capital of Makedonia until the 140's B.C. It looks like the first important use at all for Thessalonika was in 274 when Antigonos Gonatos came back there for some period of time after having no success in southern Greece, *but* Pella was most favored and flourished most under Antigonos Gonatas, who invested much time and energy into its refurbishing and adding to its importance, at that same time. Thessalonika was founded in 316 B.C., when a number of small towns nearby were brought together into a larger city. There is no doubt that Salonika was much more important later, but as the capital of Makedonia in 272 B.C. it would be ridiculous. The Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography says that Pella "remained the capital, and was a splendid town" from the time of Antigonos Gonatos till that of Perseus (ca. 189 B.C.). Antigonos makes such a big deal out of bedecking it as a royal capital, bringing in all kinds of scholars too, that it is hard to pass over it. These were Pella's "glory days", when it was clearly the capital and undergoing lots of construction, and we know very little about Thessalonika at the time, except that there was a fortress and a city there. There is very little else going in there in the early third century and not an enormous amount of activity even later in the third century. They further say that: Thessalonika would become important at a later date, but in the third century they were not a major urban center. The major four cities of Macedonia were Pella, Philippi, Kassandreia, and Amphipolis. If there was a true "capital" for Antigonas it was Demetrias (in Thessaly), although Pella was very important.
pezhetairoi
07-20-2005, 06:36
I've brought this up so many times, but I haven't seen any reply to it yet... will the EB team be adding in pronunciation guides to the native names in the map? Some of us would evidently like to take perverse pleasure in rolling the names off our tongues but it can't be fulfilled if we can't pronounce them without knowing we're hitting at least somewhere near the right pronunciation.
Nice touch on Yuezhi Yabgu, by the way... :) I never knew the Yuezhi had moved so far west by the time frame of EB. Is there any background you can provide me on the Yuezhi, perhaps? Was their settlement historically recorded?
Nice touch on Yuezhi Yabgu, by the way... :) I never knew the Yuezhi had moved so far west by the time frame of EB. Is there any background you can provide me on the Yuezhi, perhaps? Was their settlement historically recorded?
It's not so much that the Yuezhi had moved very far to the west by the time EB begins, but that EB's map extends further east than you may realize at first ~:) Notice that Yuezhi Yabgu comprises roughly the western end of the Tarim Basin. By the early III BCE and prior to their defeat by the Xiongnu, the Yuezhi appear to have been still the dominant power in the steppes to the northwest of China and to have hold dominion over the Tarim Basin.
As for an aid to pronounciation, I believe we are indeed contemplating such a thing.
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