America and the war on terror [Archive]

Al Khalifah

07-12-2005, 09:12

Since we have had Louis IV the Fat's thread about France and the war on terror, in light of today's news I thought it was time we had another thread on a similar vein.

This story: US troops ordered to avoid London (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4673987.stm) - source BBC news.

The gist of the story is that US military personnel based in the UK (over 10,000) have been ordered not to go inside the M25 motorway following last Thursday's terror attacks. Family members are also being urged to stay away. The grounds given were that London may still be unsafe and could still be a potential target for terrorists.

Now is this really the appropriate stance for an ally? More to the point, is this not blatant hiprocrisy on the grounds of the Bush administration given their "business will carry on as usual.... the terrorists will not be able to change our ways of life." The BBC article highlights this by saying:

Details of the travel ban, enforced on Friday, emerged as US President George W Bush said the US would "not retreat in the face of terrorists" .

He said: "In this difficult hour, the people of Great Britain can know the American people stand with you."
Perhaps the Americans and their leaders are not quite so 'tough' as they would like to think. This is not a one off. US personnel were ordered to stay away from Madrid following last years bombings and were highly advised to avoid vacations to Spain entirely.

While this may seem like somewhat of a token gesture compared to France's unwillingness to comit to the War In Iraq, can this simply be seen as another sign that America is only concerned about terrorism when it presents a direct threat to the security of the United States. Bush's words of support are meaningless if the actions of his administration suggest fear and isolationism rather than bravery and solidarity.

Is it too soon to start rebranding? Would anyone like a warm slice of Freedom Pie?

King of Atlantis

07-12-2005, 09:23

maybe the us troops didnt want to make someplace an even bigger target.

Fragony

07-12-2005, 09:30

Well since London was high on the blacklist it doesn't really surprise me that they are adviced to stay away. Same with Madrid.

Franconicus

07-12-2005, 09:46

I heard this news as well. It is a big contrast to the behavior of the Londoners who show that the terror will not be able to change their lifes. So the US responsibles let the British down somehow. On the other hand, if I were respnsible for the soldiers and their families, probably I would do the same.

Don Corleone

07-12-2005, 13:12

Guys,
The State Department didn't post any travel advisories to the UK. If anything, travel to London by civilians is being encouraged. The reason our military has been ordered to stay out of London, is fears that seeing Americans in uniform will incite fear or anger in muslims living in London.

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 13:21

Don't think it was because of them wearing uniforms. Typical of the American response though....as has been said....terrorism only really counts when it is directed towards America and it's interests. Yes it is hypocrisy.

"Our presence in Great Britain is our voice of saying we stand with the British people. We have a long historic relationship and we will stay here to stand by the British people."

Yeah right, just as long as you don't stand too close. :embarassed:

Proletariat

07-12-2005, 13:27

Unfriggingbelievable. And if they were allowed to run around in BDU's in Piccadilly you'd all be calling Bush a murderer who is callously allowing this tragedy to be rubbed in.

One day it's, "Look at the blood of the US soldiers who are dieing for one greedy oil tycoon's greed!"

then it's, "Look at the hypocrisy! I guess it's, 'US soldiers first, Londoners bedamned!"

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 13:29

I bloody well knew it....homegrown :furious3:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

I have this theory....the bombs went off at 11 minutes to 9...just the way the Brits do the date...(9/11/01 is 11/9/01 here)

Proletariat

07-12-2005, 13:31

Are you really trying to say that if a US Airmen in khaki's was targeted by someone with a bomb and eight Londoner's died along with him in the arcade they were in, you wouldn't be blaming Bush (and probably Blair) for not taking the appropriate measures?

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 13:35

I don't know what you're talking about Prole....the US troops were ordered to stay outside of the M25....hardly standing 'shoulder to shoulder' ...

Blair and Bush don't really have much option than to fight these buggers...it's all this crap about we are with you, well we would be if we left our armed camps.....jeez

It's just so unseemly and disapointing after the response from Londoners.

Al Khalifah

07-12-2005, 13:49

el_slapper

07-12-2005, 14:20

Yeah, the cancellation of the order simply proves that they've seen that the idea was bad.

In fact, it is symptomatic of the current US administration : it does want to do the best to protect America(that's their job, after all), but their blatant ignorance of how the rest of the world does work, once again, made them make a blunder. This time, it gets limited to diplomatic dark points, but other times it went worse.

It is especially rough for the Brits : when Chirac opposes to the Iraki adventure, he KNOWS that USA won't like it and might take measures. When Blair does back up any American initiative, and get thanked by being treated like BS once again, now THERE is a huge diplomatic problem for the States. I have yet to hear a positive counterpart from the current US administration towards its lawsful allies in GB.

And it is here that they really erred on the whole thing : they are unable to understand the most basic pronciple of diplomacy : "you give me, i give you". It is just "give everything to the USA & be thankful". No wonder they are not very popular. Which is sad : a real common job would be far ore efficient :(

Fragony

07-12-2005, 14:25

America has now reversed this order. A clear admission that it was a rather idiotic order to give and sent out totally the wrong message to the people of Britain. But I'd like to thank the administration for having the bottle to admit that they were wrong and to take appropriate action rather than see such an action as a sign of weakness.

My honest opinion of the whole thing... Why are American soldiers still in this country in the first place? Thanks, but no thanks, we're perfectly capable of defending ourselves and incase you didn't notice, this is a stable democracy.

I get the feeling that america just can't do anything right with you. They are in your country (and some in mine) because unlike a lot of europeans they aren't complete idiots and understand that a military pressence is a good thing 24/7. We are allies remember? And they are here, thank them instead.

Al Khalifah

07-12-2005, 14:29

So can we establish a military base in the territorial United States then?

On this base, I would like aircraft that they don't necessairly know about that should be capable of delivery a devastating first strike against Washington D.C before they can muster an effective response.

Fragony

07-12-2005, 14:35

So can we establish a military base in the territorial United States then?

I have little doubt that they would apreciate the gesture.

Al Khalifah

07-12-2005, 14:47

British troops on American soil... ok...

The phrase, not until hell freezes over comes to mind.

Don Corleone

07-12-2005, 16:23

British troops on American soil... ok...

The phrase, not until hell freezes over comes to mind.

They're there because it's pretty damn hard to hit Libya from Arizona.

And you do have troops here. Your nuclear trained sailors come over to our nuclear submarine bases all the time. You have whole crews stationed over here. And just like those airmen you're bitching about, you have squadrons of fighter & bomber pilots over here to train on joint tactical exercises. You have no idea how incestuous is the relationship between your military and ours. Hell, I believe you're the only other country we trust to take field command of an entire division of US infantry.

My brother in law, who actually works for a top secret defense contractor, General Dynamics, that builds the Seawolf and other nuclear subs, spent the past 3 years living and working in Ulverston (near Vickers shipyard). Guess what he was doing there for 3 years?

But if American troops are such an affront, petition your local MP. The French banned us decades ago, you're a little behind the curve in terms of kicking us out in disgrace.

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 16:33

spent the past 3 years living and working in Ulverston

Ahh..the birthplace of Stan Laurel .... another fine mess ~D

BTW DC I can say that I dont find Americans in the UK a problem, hell I love Yanks....but this was a moronic thing to do in light of the Londoners behaviour in the aftermath of the attacks. It sent this message to the UK.
We are with you....well actually we are behind you....well actaually we arn't...we're going to stay in our own version of a 'green zone' until it's all over. A faux pas on a massive scale.....and a bloody disgrace IMHO. :bow:

Don Corleone

07-12-2005, 16:35

I went to that museum when I was over there! Also, the pub in town is where I had my first (and certainly not the last) Spitfire.

BDC

07-12-2005, 16:43

Hearing on one hand "go into London, it's all ok, give the terrorists two fingers" and on the other "US servicepersonal banned from London because it's dangerous" does leave me feeling a little worried. What does the US military know that we're not being told?!

Don Corleone

07-12-2005, 16:45

Redleg

07-12-2005, 16:51

Actually, there's an article on Drudgereport that this was a base commander acting on his own. When the story came out yesterday, the Pentagon went ballistic and into overdrive to get the policy reversed ASAP (and there's strong indications that this could be the end of the base commander's military career), but I'm sure there's plenty of you folks that won't be satisfied that Dubya didn't order this directly. :dizzy2:

I was about to mention that Don because the initial report does not cite who issued the order. Base Commanders have alot of authority to restrict movements of thier assigned service members from certain areas.

Kanamori

07-12-2005, 17:36

Typical of the American response though....as has been said....terrorism only really counts when it is directed towards America and it's interests. Yes it is hypocrisy.

Wait, wait, this nearly takes the cake for my sig. No actually, I think my current one barely manages to be a more idiotic statement.

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 17:54

well if the cap fits....wear it

Wait, wait, this nearly takes the cake for my sig. No actually, I think my current one barely manages to be a more idiotic statement.

I rest my case.

American troops cower in their bases as the impressive Londoners take the brunt.....you guys have cretins in charge....and if you think that by being blaise about this you will keep the UK on board....I'd think again before I posted such a disgraceful post. Perhaps the French were right, after all it seems that we are expendable ...children, women, civilians....the USA actions on this was dishonourable.

Kanamori

07-12-2005, 18:18

You're lecturing me on disgraceful posts?

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 18:22

You're lecturing me on disgraceful posts?

yes

Kanamori

07-12-2005, 18:49

I've never had a problem with anything you've said before, but I refuse to let someone say that Americans don't give a shit about other people's problems because one stupid base commander gave an idiotic order. And, I've kept my beef with you alone, I do not juxtipose my ideas of you unto all Britains or English, quite unlike what you did here.

InsaneApache

07-12-2005, 19:00

well...thats a good point...I'm just disapointed in your nations response thats all...

I am angry at this....as are a lot of Brits...and if it was indeed a 'local' commander who sanctioned this...then he's a disgrace and should be shipped home..... post haste.

We have a word for commanders like that. :thumbsdown:

Good job commanders like Tim Collins didn't think like that.

We go to liberate, not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Show respect for them. There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly. Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others, I expect you to rock their world. Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there. You will see things that no man could pay to see -- and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing. Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country. Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you. If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves. It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive. But there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow. The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam. He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity. It is a big step to take another human life. It is not to be done lightly. I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts. I can assure you they live with the mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family. The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please. If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest -- for your deeds will follow you down through history. We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation. (On Saddam's chemical and biological weapons.) It is not a question of if, it's a question of when. We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself. If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack. As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there. Our business now is north.

Kanamori

07-12-2005, 19:08

I feel I ought to apologize; it was truly tasteless and downright rude to begin as I did. :embarassed: I could've made a point w/o being a knee-jerk arse.

Don Corleone

07-12-2005, 19:24

Ahh..the birthplace of Stan Laurel .... another fine mess ~D

BTW DC I can say that I dont find Americans in the UK a problem, hell I love Yanks....but this was a moronic thing to do in light of the Londoners behaviour in the aftermath of the attacks. It sent this message to the UK.
We are with you....well actually we are behind you....well actaually we arn't...we're going to stay in our own version of a 'green zone' until it's all over. A faux pas on a massive scale.....and a bloody disgrace IMHO. :bow:

I totally agree with your outrage. It was a disgusting and cowardly order, and one the commander's men would have been right to disobey. As we speak, I bet they're processing paperwork to get the guy yanked out of command and dragged back to the Pentagon to explain himself. You can say most anything you like about Americans, we're loud, overbearing, at times selfish, isolated, a bit unaware about the way the world works, and much of beer leaves a lot to be desired... but cowardly hiding out in the hinterlands while our friends are being blown away and then hypocritically claiming 'we stand with you' is not our way.

Louis VI the Fat

07-12-2005, 19:27

Sorry to interfere in this inter-Angloamerican discussion, but aren't the Brits overreacting a slight bit? I mean, come on.

*get's the hell out of here again*
:eeeek:

Gawain of Orkeny

07-12-2005, 19:28

I'm just disapointed in your nations response thats all...

I think our nations response has been famtastic. Again your blaming us all for the mistake of 1 base commander.

You make inflamatory untrue statements based on emtion such as

American troops cower in their bases

Do you really think they were cowering in their bases or were they obeying orders?

Isee later on you come to your senses but again dont you agree that for the most part we have given you total support? I hear that this has brought the US and Britain even closer and that many in Europe are now also seeing that these people need to be stopped at any cost.

PanzerJaeger

07-12-2005, 19:29

Unlike the French thread that was started by a french person and has been conducted fairly reasonably, this thread was started by an America-basher about something extremely petty. Its nothing but an excuse to attack America for everything under the sun.

My honest opinion of the whole thing... Why are American soldiers still in this country in the first place? Thanks, but no thanks, we're perfectly capable of defending ourselves and incase you didn't notice, this is a stable democracy.

If you havent noticed, America has bases and troops all over Europe. Maybe its because Europe has a nasty little problem of starting, and not being able to stop, world wars. Unfortunately during the last one, two outside powers decided they werent going to play that game anymore. ~;)

And in reality, if your government didnt want them, they would leave. Focus your anti-american rage at your own authorities.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

07-12-2005, 19:30

didn't some idiot make up charges that Tim Collins was a "war criminal".
I use inverted commas because I'm sure the charge was something like punching an Iraqi...
not nice but not a war crime either, barely even an act of war.

Al Khalifah

07-13-2005, 10:23

this thread was started by an America-basher about something extremely petty. Its nothing but an excuse to attack America for everything under the sun.
I made a just criticism of an American action therefore I am an America-basher? That hardly seems fair. I didn't blame it for everything under the sun, I blamed it for making an ill advised decision that seems to reflect a series of ill advised decisions that have been made throughout this war on terror.

I dislike American troops in this country because I do not see their continued need to be here. The reason American troops remained in Europe for so long was to counter the growing threat of the Soviet Union and the spread of Communism - surely that threat is now gone. Europe is unlikely to start another World War now that all of its major powers are part of one political entity. So the question remains, why are they still here?

Perhaps the reason so many World Wars (two) started in Europe is because of the very high densisty of advanced, competing industrial nations. The US does not have such neighbours. As soon as another industrial nation did appear on the Pacific scene what happened? A new theatre of the World War started.

Don Corleone

07-13-2005, 12:55

I made a just criticism of an American action therefore I am an America-basher? That hardly seems fair. I didn't blame it for everything under the sun, I blamed it for making an ill advised decision that seems to reflect a series of ill advised decisions that have been made throughout this war on terror.
Your criticism was just in calling out a wrong as a wrong. The fact that you attributed the action of one base commander to America at large & our entire population, I have a few issues with.

I dislike American troops in this country because I do not see their continued need to be here. The reason American troops remained in Europe for so long was to counter the growing threat of the Soviet Union and the spread of Communism - surely that threat is now gone. Europe is unlikely to start another World War now that all of its major powers are part of one political entity. So the question remains, why are they still here? Sorry, chief. Your government, in representing the will of the people gets to decide when and how joint military operations end. Just because you don't care for America, or American troops doesn't mean your government has to snap to and throw all of us Americans out of your country, and drag all of you Brits home from ours. One of those pesky problems of living in a representational democracy.

Perhaps the reason so many World Wars (two) started in Europe is because of the very high densisty of advanced, competing industrial nations. The US does not have such neighbours. As soon as another industrial nation did appear on the Pacific scene what happened? A new theatre of the World War started. That's right. The United States started the war in the Pacific because we couldn't stand that Japan was getting an industrialized economy. The genocides in Manchuria and Korea had nothing to do with it, let alone them bombing our Pacific fleet to Kingdom Come, had nothing to do with it.

I actually disagreed with Panzer's American bashing assessment when I first read it, as I didn't take the opening salvo in this thread to necessarily be that way. Your subsequent posts however had me questioning, and this last one, where you blame us for the Pacific war and imply that we're going to start another war in Europe... well, if you want people to think you're not anti-American, you might want to quit while you're ahead.

Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe

07-13-2005, 13:13

An advice from a country that has been bashed a fair share... And sometimes for good reasons, but at least we acknowledge it.

A fellow compatriot in official position screwed up and make you look bad. People are unhappy about it and laying blames all over the place. They feel insulted about it, they got strong feelings and feel cheated.
Sure, there are official apologies, and sometimes it's corrected, sometimes it's not.

At some points, you really need to just swallow and move on. You may have a good case saying it's limited, it's not all of you, just a stupid moron official comment. Whatever. Walk away from it.
Even if you got a good case, it's a losing fight, enraged people won't be grateful when you explain them they were wrong to criticize the US for a US official actions. You're asking too much from people with strong feelings. It may not be fair, it may hurt you, but be sure it hurt you far less than the initial statement hurt Londonians. And to be honest, they got a good reason to be pissed.
To retract the order was the decent thing to do from the US administration. To lecture everyone after making a stupid mistake is not. That's not helping. Rather the opposite.

To win "heart and minds" (remember that?), it would go much better if you were just expressing solidarity with London people, agree that this US commander was stupid and hope you'll learn from it later.
(Personnaly, I am amazed that base commander got no instruction or decent training to cope with that kind of situation...)

Let it go.

Louis,

Don Corleone

07-13-2005, 13:16

Louis,

I totally and completely agree. Part of why we Americans reacted so strongly to this post at first was because we were ashamed that our military would act like that, even if it was just one base commander. It had to be the most cravenly thing I have heard of in a long time and if anything, I would argue we owe something to show that it was just an isolated incident and not a policy of our military, like sending our joint chiefs (all of them) over to London for a week on holiday.

But don't you think moving to blaming the US for the war in the Pacific and implying that if America doesn't get shown the door, it's only a matter of time before we start a war in Europe is taking it a bit too far?

Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe

07-13-2005, 13:34

But don't you think moving to blaming the US for the war in the Pacific and implying that if America doesn't get shown the door, it's only a matter of time before we start a war in Europe is taking it a bit too far?

Do you think that comment would be there had noone argued, just expressed simpathy (spelling? god I am losing my English...), an moved on?

That's the kind of comment you get when you try to prove wrong outraged (and righteously so) people.

I am not saying it's your fault if Al Khalifah made his comment, just that you got to expect that kind of reaction. I don't think that Al Khalifah is really serious about what he said; but he does feel betrayed, and he does feel let down (although it was a bad PR mistake that is now corrected), just like many other English.
Playing a blaming game on top of that leads to that kind of statement... And then you really need to let it go. Al Khalifah is wrong? Let it go. It's really going nowhere.

Do you think that, had US posters not tried to save the pride of US army (as if it were more important than the outrage of Briton and standing by their side), had they just let it go, Al Khalifah would have made his comment on WWII?

I bet not.

Louis,

Kagemusha

07-13-2005, 13:34

I dont understand this thread at all.But maybe its just me.In my mind this kind of arguing only benefits the Al Qaida.So there was a stupid US commander in their base.So what?His behaviour didnt have anything to do with those attacks happening.If the impact of the attack is that the English and Americans start go for eachothers throats,then terrorists have succeeded with their attack.You guys should put down this kind of petty arguement and focus on catching and killing those who are responsible of these attacks. :bow:

Don Corleone

07-13-2005, 13:37

Again, I agree with you. We should be ashamed of ourselves, and personally, I'd like to see the spineless cretin who issued this order identified and publicly reprimanded. I also think a big gesture in the opposite direction, such as sending the Joint Chiefs over for holiday as I suggested, and making a very high profile tour of London would be in order. I guess I'll just clamp it off at that point.

Franconicus

07-13-2005, 13:42

As they are going to visit London anyway you could send them to Munich. To show their sympathy with the victims of Palestinian terror during the Olympic games?

KukriKhan

07-13-2005, 14:49

Our Brit friends just got punched in the nose. They are understandably sensitive right now. Yanks were the same immediately post-9/11 (too bad I can't link to the 2001 Tavern posts anymore to demonstrate that; just take my word for it...). In those days, here in the (then OT) forum, our Euro/Asian/Aussie friends indulged our fears, anger, and confusion, and offered patient, steady support.

Let's return the favor.

Base Commander messed up.

Al Khalifah

07-13-2005, 15:07

Don, I don't mean to be rude, but when the hell did I ever say that the US started the War in the Pacific.
I said:

Perhaps the reason so many World Wars (two) started in Europe is because of the very high densisty of advanced, competing industrial nations. The US does not have such neighbours. As soon as another industrial nation did appear on the Pacific scene what happened? A new theatre of the World War started.
The implication of this statement was that America was unlikely to be involved in such major conflicts because its geographic neighbours represented far less threat to the US than the major European powers did to one another. A policy of isolationism would not have been possible in Europe when surroudned by so many hostile, imperialist, industrialised nations. Hypothetically, if America was only 100 miles from Europe, I strongly doubt it would have had so few conflicts with the British, French, Spanish etc, but that's too hypothetical to analyse further.
When the Japanese commenced their imperial expansion a rival to the US emerged. America didn't start the war, although restricting Japanese access to oil meant that they had little choice but to attack the United States if they wanted to remain a military power in an age where everything depended on petrol. The US was right to fight Japan and in my opinion was right to use the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Brilliant moves by the US that probably saved more Japanese and American lives than they cost.

I wasn't accusing the US of starting the War in the Pacific. You seem to have become blinkered to the concept that I hate America and are sifting through my posts to find some more ammunition to fuel this belief. I do not hate America, I do not hate France, I do not hate Israel. The base commander made a bad decision and as an ambassador of the US in this country, his actions left a bitter sense of betrayal to many in Britain by the US.

The US didn't mean it, as we can see now and I still believe that the UK has no greater ally than the United States of America. That doesn't mean though that when US representatives make major blunders like this I won't be willing to criticise.

PanzerJaeger

07-13-2005, 15:38

Al Khalifah,

You started a thread to bash America over a really petty and insignificant order given to US troops and named it "America and the War on Terror". It appeared that you had more rage against America than the actual terrorists seeing as you could muster the time to make a whole thread criticising a stupid little troop order but dont seem too outraged over the actual terrorist, oops i mean bomber, attacks.

Then in the same thread you launch into some rant about US troops in Britain. ~:confused:

If your representitive government didnt want them there, they wouldnt be there.

This is the same thing that happens all over the world. The US is invited by other countries to help preserve the peace, but those other countries dont acknowledge the fact that they cant defend themselves so the uneducated populace harbors resentment towards the troops that are actually there to help. :no:

America isnt your enemy! Petition your local PM to get American troops out of your country, but dont hate us for the decisions of your government!

Don Corleone

07-13-2005, 15:51

AK,
I apologize if I misread the intent of that post.

As Louis pointed out, while this isn't a good time for me to debate sideline issues with you, it is a banner of a time to express my apologies for a fool in charge of a base in your country that outraged all of you, and outraged/ embarrassed all of us, in our name. So, without qualifier or sidenote, I apologize for the offense issued by this clown, and should it be of any interest to you, I'm conducting some research on who this guy is and I will provide information on who he is and how to contact him should I discover it.

Don Corleone

07-13-2005, 15:54

This is the same thing that happens all over the world. The US is invited by other countries to help preserve the peace, but those other countries dont acknowledge the fact that they cant defend themselves so the uneducated populace harbors resentment towards the troops that are actually there to help. :no:

That is NOT why American troops are over there. Britain is perfectly capable of defending itself, as is Germany (another host to a large number of American troops). They're over there to 1) participate in joint training maneuvers and 2) have a forward platform from which to implement our policy (such as Libya). To claim we're over there to protect the British because they can't protect themselves is foolish and ignorant.

Al Khalifah

07-13-2005, 15:58

It appeared that you had more rage against America than the actual terrorists seeing as you could muster the time to make a whole thread criticising a stupid little troop order but dont seem too outraged over the actual terrorist, oops i mean bomber, attacks.
Time taken to create thread = 1 minute
Time taken to plan, co-ordinate equipment for, implement major terror attack = ???
That's a pretty stupid and rather offensive comment. I actually posted several times about my anger at the terrorists, but since they're not the subject of this thread you won't find those posts here.

This is the same thing that happens all over the world. The US is invited by other countries to help preserve the peace, but those other countries dont acknowledge the fact that they cant defend themselves so the uneducated populace harbors resentment towards the troops that are actually there to help.
2 Points:
Britain can't defend itself? Against who? Apart from against the wrath of the United States, China or Russia I believe that this nation is more than capable of defending itself. What peace are the American soldiers preserving in this country? There isn't a civil war here, we're not at war. US soldiers do not use arms outside of bases in this country - which is probably for the best.
The uneducated populace? Check out the American schools system and general level of population intelligence before you slander the rest of the worlds intelect. A sizeable portion can't even locate Britain on a map. (oh no, I bashed America... damn I'm an America-basher, but then again you bashed the rest of the world, go figure).

Don - you posted while I was posting. You crafty one. I look forward to reading the results of your research. Thanks for the apology, though I wasn't really expecting one, welcome. I'm sorry if I got heated.

PanzerJaeger

07-13-2005, 19:45

Britain can't defend itself? Against who? Apart from against the wrath of the United States, China or Russia I believe that this nation is more than capable of defending itself. What peace are the American soldiers preserving in this country? There isn't a civil war here, we're not at war. US soldiers do not use arms outside of bases in this country - which is probably for the best.

The British government obviously felt it needed some help defending itself against both the Germans and the Russians. If you feel there isnt a threat anymore, talk to your own government about getting rid of the US troops in Britain.

However, dont throw a little fit about the US troop presence in your country as if its somehow a bad thing we are over there to help you.

Remember what you said..

My honest opinion of the whole thing... Why are American soldiers still in this country in the first place? Thanks, but no thanks, we're perfectly capable of defending ourselves and incase you didn't notice, this is a stable democracy.

Your the one who first insulted Americans intelligence, even though its your own damned fault. The ignorance and blind hatred are astounding.

Please, im asking you, start a movement to get them kicked out of your country. We need them elsewhere anyway, but direct your hostility toward the people who deserve it - not the people who have been there to help you against two huge threats.

The uneducated populace? Check out the American schools system and general level of population intelligence before you slander the rest of the worlds intelect. A sizeable portion can't even locate Britain on a map. (oh no, I bashed America... damn I'm an America-basher, but then again you bashed the rest of the world, go figure).

Its all coming out now isnt it? Now your insulting American's intelligence. I didnt insult anyone but those like yourself who direct anger against US forces in their country who are only there to help the subject government that wants them there.

So the US doesnt support its allies, occupies your country, and is generally stupid. What else, lets have it all out now. :furious3:

Really though Kalifah, you start a thread with statements like:

Perhaps the Americans and their leaders are not quite so 'tough' as they would like to think.

While this may seem like somewhat of a token gesture compared to France's unwillingness to comit to the War In Iraq, can this simply be seen as another sign that America is only concerned about terrorism when it presents a direct threat to the security of the United States.

...and then you get upset when people call you on your bullshit? ~:confused:

You, of course following the beeb's lead, made a thread to chastise America for a pretty standard military order... to score cheap points against your ally. Its clear from your initial post and subsequent ones the hostility you have toward America, please dont backtrack.

In any event, who said "With friends like these, who needs enemies."? :blank2:

Marcellus

07-14-2005, 00:45

The British government obviously felt it needed some help defending itself against both the Germans and the Russians. If you feel there isnt a threat anymore, talk to your own government about getting rid of the US troops in Britain.

World War Two ended sixty years ago, so there isn't a threat anymore. I'm not necessarily saying that all the US forces in Britain should get out, but I'm just making it clear that we are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves.

Please, im asking you, start a movement to get them kicked out of your country

Don't worry, there are plenty of them already ~:)

Gawain of Orkeny

07-14-2005, 01:07

World War Two ended sixty years ago, so there isn't a threat anymore. I'm not necessarily saying that all the US forces in Britain should get out, but I'm just making it clear that we are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves.

Sure now that the USSR is gone you are. You werent before that. Your still not if we were to decide to attack you ~D

Look most Americans are certainly in favor of us pulling our troops out. I seem to remember Bush signing something that will reduce or has started to rduse our troop levels in these places. The US didnt go to your countries and take bases.

Marcellus

07-14-2005, 01:23

Sure now that the USSR is gone you are.

The cold war ended fifteen years ago.

Your still not if we were to decide to attack you ~D

Well, that's debatable. If the US did attack the UK (at a probability of 0.01%, or perhaps lower), then I think that it would be likely that the EU would back the UK, and possibly even Russia. If the US attack with WMD, then they would be counterattacked and everyone would lose. If they tried attacking conventionally, then they would be up against large forces (if the UK was backed up by the EU), and would have to land troops launched from thousands of miles away, like they would have had to have done if Britain had fallen in WWII. Neither side would be able to win.

The US didnt go to your countries and take bases.

I'm not saying they did.

Gawain of Orkeny

07-14-2005, 01:41

The cold war ended fifteen years ago.

You act like thats ancient history. These things take time. If you want us out Im sure we will be all to glad to leave.

Well, that's debatable. If the US did attack the UK (at a probability of 0.01%, or perhaps lower), then I think that it would be likely that the EU would back the UK, and possibly even Russia.

I seriously doubt that. Besides is that what you call defending YOURSELF ~;)

Don Corleone

07-14-2005, 01:45

Look, this is in really poor taste, even if the two of you think it's funny. The USA is not going to attack the UK, and has no intention of ever doing so. First off, our relative position against you is not as strong as Germany's was in 1940 and we're not complete idiots. Second, you're our best ally in the world. Gawain, you really ought to apologize for even suggesting such a thing in jest. I mean come on, what if Jag had made a joke, or better yet, a Brit with a military streak, such as Insane Apache or King Malcom made a quote on Sept 17th (6 days later), 2001 to the affect of "Now's our chance. Let's retake the colonies while they're looking the other way". You'd be understandably upset. I know you don't mean it to be offensive, but honestly, you ought to consider their feelings a little better before you go say things like that.

Marcellus

07-14-2005, 02:02

Gawain of Orkeny

07-14-2005, 02:25

I did state that it was incredibly unlikely.

Incredibly unlikely is an understatement. I would suggest that if it ever came to that we all might as well just kiss our a$$es good bye as the world would be in a sorry state for that to happen. I want to make it clear that the US and Britain are the closest of allies and that there is no nation I admire more . Again I dont think anyone wants to bring US troops home than we do.

Devastatin Dave

07-14-2005, 02:28

British troops on American soil... ok...

The phrase, not until hell freezes over comes to mind.

God you're an ignorant ####. There ARE Brittish troops STATIONED in the United States. I've worked with them along with Canadian, Australian, and many other countries, right here at Scott Air Force Base in IL. Don't let facts get in the way of complete lack of knowlegde and hatred for the United States. Your "insight" makes the mentally retarded look like Steven ####ing Hawkins...

I'll take my leave again, just couldn't stand the complete lack of brain power you used to post your foolish post.

Marcellus

07-14-2005, 02:28

Incredibly unlikely is an understatement. I would suggest that if it ever came to that we all might as well just kiss our a$$es good bye as the world would be in a sorry state for that to happen.

I agree entirely

I want to make it clear that the US and Britain are the closest of allies

And long may that be so.

Gawain of Orkeny

07-14-2005, 02:30

I'll take my leave again, just couldn't stand the complete lack of brain power you used to post your foolish post.

No dont go.............. Great to hear from you mate. ~:cheers:

Devastatin Dave

07-14-2005, 02:40

Oh and one more thing, who are any of you to judge what the commander of that base did? His JOB is to protect his troops. HIS JOB!!! DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! !!!! ~:handball:

Don Corleone

07-14-2005, 02:40

Devastatin Dave

07-14-2005, 02:50

A) I think everyone needs to take a chill pill. Al Khalifah's original post stemmed from a sense of betrayal, that frankly, as an American, not a Brit, I share. I'm pretty embarassed by the base commander's actions.

B) DAVE!!!! Pick any other thread, and let us again cry havok and release the dogs of war!!! :charge:

Nah, I said what I wanted to say, but continue to feed the dogs with the blood and guts of the vanquished. Again, the base commander had a duty to protect his people. Bases get locked down all the time, especially when you have a bunch of lunatic muslims running around and a host government that turnes a blind eye to the extemist in order to be politically correct. I'm sure the UK will start searching 80 year old cracker-ass ladies or 5 year old Asian kids at air ports instead of 20 year old arab males like we do here in the states in order to not offend there "peaceful" practitioners of the muslim faith. Now Take care and keep up the good work... Later.... ~D