View Full Version : American Pit Bull kills baby.
InsaneApache
07-12-2005, 11:29
title says it all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4674685.stm
very very sad. Personally I would have killed the dog with my bear hands if that was my baby.
BTW it was the family pet.....just heard on the radio.
ScionTheWorm
07-12-2005, 11:32
never totally trust dogs... I wouldn't have let it near, but if it first happened I would kill it right away too.
That is horrible. A bit stupid as well, pitbulls aren't as agressive as many people think but you shouldn't take one if you have kids.
The Stranger
07-12-2005, 13:26
shit!!!!!!this is bad for PB lovers, cuz there were already arguments against the dog. where i come from, dogs are afraid of humans, here its the other way around, you shouldnt treat dogs like humans when you cant give them the same rights as humans, this doesnt mean you must be cruel against them.
Proletariat
07-12-2005, 13:35
Always tragic when it involves a baby, but never surprising with a Pit Bull.
Kaiser of Arabia
07-12-2005, 13:58
Horrible, but with my experience with Pit Bulls most are very nice. it's just the few that you need to watch out for.
edyzmedieval
07-12-2005, 14:01
Horrible....
I hate PitBulls but I love dogs......
Horrible, but with my experience with Pit Bulls most are very nice. it's just the few that you need to watch out for.
They are, they are just a bit hyper and don't like rapid unexpected movements. Great dog for an adult, but not the best choice if you have kids.
Ja'chyra
07-12-2005, 14:43
Most of the time it's not the dog, it's the owner.
And to say that all Pit Bulls will attack children would be the equivalent of saying that all arabs are terrorists, in other words crap. Dogs, like people, have unique temperaments and characters.
As a longtime dog lover, I've never been too fond of pits. I've never met one that was human-aggressive, but man, you had better watch them around other dogs.
I would never argue for a ban of pits, but people really need to think things through. Pits aren't naturally mean, but it's pretty easy to make them so. It's very difficult to turn a golden retriever mean, for instance. Their temperament runs against it.
The maddening thing here in Brooklyn is that the people who get pit bulls tend to be precisely the people who should not own them. (Meaning, teenagers with little supervision; hombres who want a "tough" dog but haven't read a dog training book in their life; families with infants, etc.)
Kaiser of Arabia
07-12-2005, 16:20
Pit Bulls are cute though
http://www.petcalmer.com/pit%20bull%20puppy.jpg
http://www.domesticsale.com/mainclass/photos/iiboxhxnii.jpg
http://www.pitbullregistry.com/218a.jpg
InsaneApache
07-12-2005, 16:30
Pit Bulls are cute though
Sure are....(nice pics btw)...until they eat your baby. I've had dogs all my life, some pedigree..... some heinz 57 variety.....but one thing I do know, they can get jealous....espeicially when kids arrive. When my first kid was born (circa 1980) I made a point of leaving my old pal at home with my mum...just wasn't worth the risk. I loved my dog, but I love my son more.
Horrible, but with my experience with Pit Bulls most are very nice. it's just the few that you need to watch out for.
My thoughts are that if the dog had previously showed aggression towards the child, the parents should be held partially responsible for the death. Keeping it around if it did amounts to child endangerment. Sad story...
Gawain of Orkeny
07-12-2005, 17:10
I hate PitBulls but I love dogs......
Why
These kids got along well with theirs
http://www.dakotapuppydog.com/images/rascals.jpg
And to say that all Pit Bulls will attack children would be the equivalent of saying that all arabs are terrorists, in other words crap. Dogs, like people, have unique temperaments and characters.
For sure and Pits are naturally agressive. But not to the point where they attack people unless the owner treats aggressivly.
A bit stupid as well, pitbulls aren't as agressive as many people think but you shouldn't take one if you have kids.
Ive owned a few and its not really your kids you have to worry about but other people if you have them. All my pits were very protective of my sonas are all those of others I know who have children. Any percived threat to them can cause the dog to attack.
Red Harvest
07-12-2005, 17:14
Too many dog owners are in denial about the dangers of their own pets. They fail to keep their aggressive breeds away from children. My own daughter was attacked by an aggressive breed in a campground. What sort of dumb ass brings a dog like that into a campground anyway? I see the same thing at the beach, in parks, etc. idiot dog owners failing to restrain their pets.
Proletariat
07-12-2005, 17:20
There's a certain group of people which prides themselves on owning these dogs, seemingly for their ferocity. Hard to feel bad when they're viciously mauled. Reminds me of a scene from the movie Trainspotting with Sickboy.
Most of the time it's not the dog, it's the owner.
Certain dogs attract certain owners..
There's a certain group of people which prides themselves on owning these dogs, seemingly for their ferocity.
Exactly. Pitbulls aren`t the worst breed though.
Steppe Merc
07-12-2005, 17:56
It's the people's fault for not training the dog properly and getting a fricken pit bull when they have a kid.
These kids got along well with theirs
That's not a pit bull, it's an American Bulldog. I have one. They were the original bulldog breed, which the English bulldogs and the pitbulls and bull terriers were all derived from. They are very nice, and though they look like pit bulls (well, actually pit bulls look like them), they are not nearly as, um grumpy.
Too many dog owners are in denial about the dangers of their own pets. They fail to keep their aggressive breeds away from children. My own daughter was attacked by an aggressive breed in a campground. What sort of dumb ass brings a dog like that into a campground anyway? I see the same thing at the beach, in parks, etc. idiot dog owners failing to restrain their pets.
Precisely. If you had sued the ass off the dog owner I would've supported you. I love dogs, but if an owner lets a dog that's aggressive towards strangers run loose in campgrounds they're guilty of criminal negligence, imo.
t1master
07-12-2005, 18:16
i could see the point of owning a dog if you are a shepard, a herder or some type of hunter gatherer, but in todays modern age, i don't see the point of keeping domestic dogs around us...
Gawain of Orkeny
07-12-2005, 18:26
i could see the point of owning a dog if you are a shepard, a herder or some type of hunter gatherer, but in todays modern age, i don't see the point of keeping domestic dogs around us...
OMG and I thought the anti gun crowd was bad. Should we ban everything that could be considered dangerous but not needed for survival in todays age? Dogs even small ones are excellent protection from burglars. In fact some people put up a beware of dog sign and dont even have one.
Spetulhu
07-12-2005, 18:37
I wouldn't blame the dog but the owner. Leaving a child alone with a dog is not a good move, at least not until the child is old enough to understand how to handle the dog. Dogs aren't psychic. They will respond to things that look threatening in whatever manner their nature dictates.
t1master
07-12-2005, 18:44
OMG and I thought the anti gun crowd was bad. Should we ban everything that could be considered dangerous but not needed for survival in todays age? Dogs even small ones are excellent protection from burglars. In fact some people put up a beware of dog sign and dont even have one.
i didn't say ban them, i said i don't see the point/purpose of keeping a domestic dog around in a modern urban setting, especially the big ones that shit in my yard or even better on the sidewalk and tear up the garbage in the alley...
not to mention the cacaphony of howling and barking that never ceases.... it's nice to know when the mailman is delivering packages on the next block, but really dogs bark sooo much in my neighborhood, nobody pays them any mind...
that said, i am somewhat jaded towards dogs because i inherited two of these little poop machines when i got married...
http://www.pamperyourpets.com/images/DSAmEskimoDSHC04.jpg
talk about useless wads of hair and teeth... they didn't stop the burglars from stealing two huge potted plants off my front porch...
OMG and I thought the anti gun crowd was bad. Should we ban everything that could be considered dangerous but not needed for survival in todays age? Dogs even small ones are excellent protection from burglars. In fact some people put up a beware of dog sign and dont even have one.
Lol, read my mind. ~;)
Red Harvest
07-12-2005, 19:10
Precisely. If you had sued the ass off the dog owner I would've supported you. I love dogs, but if an owner lets a dog that's aggressive towards strangers run loose in campgrounds they're guilty of criminal negligence, imo.
Well, we are looking at that and do intend to file suit (I hate having to go that route, but it appears the only option.) We had to take my daughter to a plastic surgeon to repair the damage to her face and hopefully the scarring will eventually go away. I'm going to teach her how to handle and kill dogs like that when she is older, but she is much too little now.
I can tell you one thing, the system for handling stuff like this stinks to high heaven. Takes quite awhile to track the owners down after they flee. Then you get a short quarantine and they have Kujo back. It took all the restraint I could muster not to kill the animal right there and then...in retrospect I think my restraint was misplaced.
There is a real weak spot in the US toward making dog owner's accountable for their pets. That video in the frontroom titled "he bite my vagina" was all too typical. In the video the dog bit someone, and wasn't even carried away by Animal Control, despite the owner's own comments that the dog did this sort of thing to her, her other pets, etc. Amazing. If you or I assaulted someone in the same manner we would be carried off to jail no questions asked (and for good reason.) The dog should have been carried off to be put down--it had the established profile, and the owner demonstrated and said she couldn't handle it. Hard to get more black and White than that.
InsaneApache
07-12-2005, 19:26
I am really sorry to hear that...anyone who has to take a child to a plastic surgeon because of a dog attack is one too many in my book...
, it's an American Bulldog. I have one. They were the original bulldog breed, which the English bulldogs and the pitbulls and bull terriers were all derived from. They are very nice, and though they look like pit bulls (well, actually pit bulls look like them), they are not nearly as, um grumpy.
I saw one the other day that was as big as a small pony - damn thing was huge probably pushed over 100 pounds - but she was a friendly and loving thing with the owners.
Steppe Merc
07-12-2005, 19:55
I saw one the other day that was as big as a small pony - damn thing was huge probably pushed over 100 pounds - but she was a friendly and loving thing with the owners.
Yeah, they are huge. Mine is probably gonna be a 100 pounds (her aunt is over 100), but now she's just a puppy. But they are very friendly, as long as they get used to people. They have to meet a whole bunch of different people, otherwise they can devolp bad habits.
OMG and I thought the anti gun crowd was bad. Should we ban everything that could be considered dangerous but not needed for survival in todays age? Dogs even small ones are excellent protection from burglars. In fact some people put up a beware of dog sign and dont even have one.
I'm with you on this one Gawain. Dogs are good, and nice, and are very good protectors. They are loyal and nice, as long as you treat them kindly.
Steppe Merc
07-12-2005, 23:20
I was incorrect. Pete is (well, was) a Pit Bull. My Mom had told me he was a American Bull Dog, but then read it was really a Pit Bull. Sorry for any confusion. :bow:
Bah. Poor pitties get such a bad rap. A few irresponsible owners and next thing they're treated like demons dogs.
When somebody starts doing something about the thrice damned labrador retrievers - that nice sweet 'family' dog who's also the number one biter - then maybe I'll consider the possibility that this is really about safety and not fear mongering.
Steppe Merc
07-12-2005, 23:50
The vet my family goes to for our animals says that Dalmatians are way worse than pit bulls.
Goofball
07-12-2005, 23:57
Bah. Poor pitties get such a bad rap. A few irresponsible owners and next thing they're treated like demons dogs.
While I agree that the problem is the owners, not the dogs, the bigger problem is that it's not just "a few" irresponsible owners. There are thousands of irresponsible owners of aggressive breed dogs.
I think that this happens largely because a lot of men (in particular) who are inclined to be overly aggressive and inconsiderate to start with are attracted to the idea of pit bull ownership because of the reputation for "meanness" that the breed has. These types of individuals are not going to make responsible pet owners no matter what breed of dog they have, but having a dog as potentially deadly as a pitter compounds the situation.
But the really big part of the problem is that owners are rarely held responsible in a meaningful way for the actions of their pets.
In my mind, if a pet kills or maims somebody, the pet owner should be charged as if he/she did the killing/maiming him/herself.
Steppe Merc
07-13-2005, 00:01
Well there would be some circumstances that that wouldn't be quite fair. Like if the dog bit the owner, or something. But that I think would certaintly be better than murdering the dog and just letting the owner get scot free. The dog is less at fault then the owner in almost all cases.
Though it would suck for these people, since their kid just died, then get thrown in jail for it... though it is their fault when you come down to it.
Strangely, Most of the pit bull enthusiasts I've met were women, not men. At any rate, trying to deal with the issue of irresponsible owners by the breed of dog they have won't help. Do something about the pit bulls, and you'll get aggressive dalmations. Do something about the dalmatians, then it's aggressive rotties, then australian sheepdogs, then border collies, then labradoodles, then chihuahuas. You'd have to ban all large breeds and probably most small breeds too.
And in the meantime, the labs will still be biting everybody.
Steppe Merc
07-13-2005, 00:06
You really don't like labs, do you? ~;)
But I agree, banning dog breeds is not only unfair, it's cruel. What happens to all that dogs of that kind? Kill them all because people are to stupid to treat them properly?
Goofball
07-13-2005, 00:10
Strangely, Most of the pit bull enthusiasts I've met were women, not men. At any rate, trying to deal with the issue of irresponsible owners by the breed of dog they have won't help. Do something about the pit bulls, and you'll get aggressive dalmations. Do something about the dalmatians, then it's aggressive rotties, then australian sheepdogs, then border collies, then labradoodles, then chihuahuas. You'd have to ban all large breeds and probably most small breeds too.
And in the meantime, the labs will still be biting everybody.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that only aggressive men own pit bulls. I meant that pit bulls tend to be a breed that attracts an inordinate number of aggressive male owners.
And you're right, discriminating by breed does no good. That's why I think pet owners should be held responsible for their dogs' actions no matter what breed they happen to be.
InsaneApache
07-13-2005, 00:18
Gentlemen...this thread was started by moi to highlight the dangers inherent with dogs per se and infants...the fact it was a 'pit' is immaterial...a child ...nay, a baby was killed by a dog....and it has to be said, this was a tragedy that could so easily been avoided, I was just hoping that a knowledge shared would prevent a similar case in the future.
i could see the point of owning a dog if you are a shepard, a herder or some type of hunter gatherer, but in todays modern age, i don't see the point of keeping domestic dogs around us...
I've trained mine to chase away goats
I pretty much agree with Goof, as Ive said. If you don't keep your dog under control and it hurts someone you're responsible. There's no excuse for not taking reasonable precautions to keep any breed of dog under control.
Phatose, you know, the only dog Ive ever been bitten by is a lab.
Goofball
07-13-2005, 00:28
I can relate to what Steppe Merc said earlier. When I was 16 I was attacked by a Dalmatian. Still have scars on both hands and permanent nerve damage in one finger.
It the deafness. Make dalmatians jittery.
And yeah, make the owners responsible. But aren't they already? I seem to remember the two lawyers who's dog killed their neighbor both got sentenced for homicide or manslaughter.
Spetulhu
07-13-2005, 01:58
If you don't keep your dog under control and it hurts someone you're responsible. There's no excuse for not taking reasonable precautions to keep any breed of dog under control.
That's not only physical control. You should also teach the dog how to behave. There's a lot of people who are too lax with their pets, when some breeds really need to be well schooled. A dog may consider itself leader of the pack if there's no human family member who cares enough to take charge.
Revelation
07-13-2005, 02:28
Too many dog owners are in denial about the dangers of their own pets.
Exactly!
How many times have you visited a friends house and been met at the gate by freakin Cujo, the 65kg, fang bearing, slobbering demon spawn from the lower depths of hell, only to be told by the owner..."he's ok, he won't bite, he's just a big sook".
Yeah right. How about whacking a muzzle on the big sook, remove a leg and neuter the big bastard, then i'll come on in mate.
I love dogs, but as was mentioned earlier, certain breeds attract certain people. Pit bulls are a fine looking dog, but a breed I do not trust to be around an adult, let alone a child. But that said, it is unfair to label a breed a killer, when in fact any breed is capable of violence.
Start dealing out huge penalties to the owners of these animals and get the message out, your dog, your responsibility! Jail, big fines or both.
Always sad to see a child killed in any circumstance.
t1master
07-13-2005, 15:05
I've trained mine to chase away goats
~D
they're light weights though.. half a bowl of goat brew and they're passed out cold, ripe for pilfiring...
This type of thing is why I am a cat person. That and because the one dog we had when I was a kid saw us 3 children as threats to her position in the pack. Mom never let the bitch be alone with any of us. One bad side effect of this is that to this day my brother doesn't like dogs. He is really rough to any animal but with dogs it goes into meaness.
Kaiser of Arabia
07-13-2005, 18:43
I still think pitt bulls are the best.
I want to get one but my cat would eat it if it was a puppy (no joke) or it would eat my cat if it was a full grown. When I move out though and can't keep my kitty (I know I'm pitiful shut up about it already!) I'll be getting one.
actually a dog attacks:
-when he's threatned(spelling?)
-To protect it's puppys
-when you put a pencil in it's ear, don't laugh it actually happened.
-bad owners.
-dogs are social animals and fight to be the dominant dog or more dominant then an other one. this happens a lot whit having children born after the dog. but this shouldn't be problem if you show it's position.
-When you keep hil from it's primary needs, taking gis food away or teasing him while he's eating.
-wrong body language, show you're dominant and don't let him think you're about to attack him and don't behave like a prey.
-Or ofcourse if you hit your dog, I would bite aswell wouldn't you?
and perhaps many more reasons but it's the same with cats but most cats are not big enough to kill a human. well most domestic cats not lions or tigers ofcourse.
Steppe Merc
07-13-2005, 21:26
I want to get one but my cat would eat it if it was a puppy (no joke) or it would eat my cat if it was a full grown. When I move out though and can't keep my kitty (I know I'm pitiful shut up about it already!) I'll be getting one.
Heh, I like my cat too, don't feel weird. ~;)
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