Loyalty to your employer

[Ja'chyra]

How loyal are you to your employer? Or to put it another way, how important is your job to you?

I'll tell you where I'm coming from.

A lot of people work really hard at work, which I agree with, where I stop agreeing is the people who seem to think that if your job takes until 8 at night then you are obligated to work till then, most of the time irrespective of whether they get paid or not. My workplace is rife with this.

Now try not to laugh, I am a civil servant working in the UK and I know the views most people have of the CS, but it's not all short days and long lunches at the tax payers expense. Most of us are on flexi time which means that as long as we do our monthly hours we can work any times we like between 0730 and 1830. A lot of people here, including the management are under the impression that you should work until the job's done and if that's beyond the set hours then, well, tough really. Another quirk of the flexi time is you can save up credit time for day's off, but only up to 15 hours-ish, the same people who think you should work all the hours also think that if you haven't used the hours you have saved up beyond the 15 hours then that again is tough. Basically they expect you to do the extra hours free of pay.

Now I am of the opinion that I go to work to pay the mortgage, my employer gives me money for doing a job of work, a fair exchange in my view, but I don't feel that I owe them anything, either loyalty or my time for free.

I feel that my employer seems to demand loyalty and dedication, make no mistake I carry out my work to the best of my abilities, but they don't seem to want to repay the favour. As some of you may know, most may not, the government are going to lose 10,000 cs posts. This has been kept very quiet in comparison to the furor raised over the loss of 500 jobs at Rover. They are also going to force relocation on a vast amount of people in the near future, well 2-3 years, though some of these people are mobile grades. As well as they job losses they also want to change our pensions and instituted a bonus sheme that the majority of personnel voted against, it was passed when 2 out of 3 unions voted for it even though the third one is bigger then the other two combined, there was also no acceptance criteria beforehand so you got the feeling that they were always going to make the figures fit.

So there's my point, why should I go out of my way for an employer who won't return the favour.

[TonyJ]

I really don't mind doing a bit extra as long as I get some form of reward or recognition for my efforts.

What I do NOT agree with is the culture that exists in some UK businesses that you can't leave until the boss does, regardless of whether your time is being spent constructively.

I have worked in an office in Manchester where the boss would deliberately sit in his office doing NOTHING unitl 6 - 6.30pm just to make sure that we all stayed - woe betide anyone who left before he did :furious3:

I'll work as long as it takes if a job needs doing, but if there's nothing to do, I'm outta here ~:cheers:

[UglyandHasty]

I pull, every week, a few extra hours of work(without being paid). I also often work a few hours during the weekend. Not that my job is that important to me, but the work have to be done, so i do it. But as a dispatcher, the extra hours come with the job so ...If i dont pull the extra effort or the extra hours, how can i ask the guys to make the overtime work (but they are paid though :) )?

The only places i have work my time, without doing extra, each times i was in a Union ! And i'm not saying that to praise the Unions ...

[Ser Clegane]

I'll work as long as it takes if a job needs doing, but if there's nothing to do, I'm outta here ~:cheers:

That pretty much reflects my "work ethics". I have no problem throwing in extra hours and staying even until late evening if it is really required (e.g., for certain projects that are on a tight schedule) but I won't stay late just for the sake of it or to show my face
Although if the workload would consistently be so high that it would require me to stay late every day, I would actually expect my employer to hire an additional person (and that's how we handled it in the past).
As I actually enjoy to have some kind of personal life, additional money to compensate for extra hours would not be a solution for me.

With regard to loyalty - in my case it's more a case of loyalty to individual people within our company than a case of loyalty to my employer as an entity. For some people I am definitely more willing to "go the extra mile" (I hate that term) than for others.

[Don Corleone]

I work typically about 50 hours a week, more when the situation calls for it. That being said, if I need time out of the plant (such as for wifey's doctor visits), I just tell my boss, I don't even bother writing in that I'm not there. He actually told me to do that. They're coming out way ahead on the deal anyway.

My loyalty is pretty good that way, but I do have a quid pro quo mentality. I expect better raises & recongnition than other guys in my group w/ a similar job function. If a fairly high priority/ high profile item gets assigned to one of the 'it's a minute until 40 hours, I'm out of here' types, I get pissed and don't make a lot of bones about it. Invariably, they cannot keep up with some of our more demanding customers and when my boss asks me to step in to help, I do give him some crap about it (not having to help, that he didn't assign it to me in the first place).

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

some jobs I've loved whilst others I've hated.
Some of the jobs I loved I would bend over backwards to help out and probably be pleased to work more.
Less enjoyable jobs: no overtime pay, no overtime work.

[Al Khalifah]

I will work any extra hours that are needed as long as it doesn't affect my personnal life.
If my job demands that I routinely have to work outside my contracted hours and there is no suitable reward for this dedication then I will demand a change to my contract. I know my skills can get me a job elsewhere, so I see no need to owe any loyalty to my employer if he is unwilling to do the same in reverse.

I am of the opinion that if possible you should aim to change jobs every 2/3 years unless you recieve a promotion during that time. This stops you becomming an 'old-hand' who the company believe will be there forever and so they come dump any shit on to you. It also keeps you flexible and stops you becomming too dependant on the job.

[PanzerJaeger]

37 hours a week.. i want your job! ~D


How loyal are you to your employer?

My boss is like my dad.. well actually he is my dad, so Im pretty loyal. The business world doesnt stop at 5, it stops when the work of the day is over. I dont get paid hourly though, so time doesnt really affect me. Sometimes I stay very late, sometimes I go home after lunch.. just depends on the workload - but it always gets done.

[Red Harvest]

Loyalty...it is a two way street. US companies have succeeded in creating a mercenary workforce in the last few years, from elements that were not mercenary before. Companies want no obligations to their employees as a way of being more competitive. This is economically attractive during difficult times. However, this flexibility has a cost, since many employees no longer see their future as being significantly tied to their employer's well being.

I selected my original long term employer because they were quite selective about wanting long term minded employees who would really buy into their work. The company wasn't union and the labor vs. management animosity was absent. It was a good environment for years. I used to work about 50-60 hours a week for my 40 hr/week salary, and I was happy doing it. As I progressed I spent a lot of time on call, etc. so sometimes I might work 70 hours a week. When there was a need at the plant, you could guarrantee I would be there working on it until resolved. Then my employer followed the trend in industry of whittling away at benefits, long term employment, outsourcing, etc. The changes were drastic and it was rather obvious that they were out to screw me and my fellow employees of our benefits, work us harder by further understaffing, create "artificial emergencies" through lack of management preparation, and create and environment where it was easy to lay off anyone at anytime.

After getting screwed out of any substantial pension by such policies, as well as many other economic hits that seemed to hit those of us just below management level, I quit having any loyalty to the employer. I would put extra effort into specific projects (pride in doing a good job), and would help out my fellow employees, but I had no incentive to giving anything extra to the company itself since I could not see any evidence of it being rewarded. Rather than spending extra hours a week on additional projects that I could do, I cut my hours back to less than 40/wk after an across the board pay cut--they cut X% or our wages, so I cut out X% of my time by leaving early. My fellow non-management engineers did the same as a protest. Productivity from technical employees plummeted as talent fled and extra effort disappeared. Safety performance at operator level went from terrific to horrific as a result of both company cutbacks and worker demoralization (a demoralized worker is not a safe one, as they tend to be distracted/disinterested while performing their tasks.)

Most of my friends quit for other jobs or other fields over a few years, then I did the same. It is not limited to that employer, few in my industry feel any loyalty to our employers, since our employers have no loyalty to us. The mutually beneficial relationship has been broken. I'm not crazy about the new arrangement, but it wasn't my choice.

[BDC]

I work on Sundays as a weekend job (still at school, do extra time on Saturdays sometimes), been there 18-odd months.

Still have no loyalty though. There just isn't anywhere particularly better avaliable. This has been picked up on though, and I haven't been trained to do anything particularly hard (not that I'd get extra pay anyway). Still, I could easily run the place on my own.

Retail is full of such dumb idiots.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Im totally loyal to my employer and would never leave him as Im self employed for the most part. ~D

[TonyJ]

37 hours a week.. i want your job! ~D

Don't forget that in Europe the working week is limited by statute - you have a right to refuse to work over a certain number of hours - 48 I believe. Many employers will ask you to sign something waiving your rights in this respect but you don't have to.

[Samurai Waki]

I don't like working... I'd rather be doing something interesting. But I am basically 2nd in the Chain-o-Command, the first is my dad :duel:

[Papewaio]

I'm in mission critical support. So if my stuff goes down 2/3rds of the company cannot do their job and they are all the customer facing (outsourced) technicians for other companys.

I work 8 and a half hour days, eat lunch at my desk and am on call every second week. But I do get paid extra for being on call, get time and a half if I have to go to site etc. As long as we have at least one of the team here between 8 and 7pm we can work out flexitime between us. Swap on call shifts etc.

[kiwitt]

After witnessing a number of so-called "redundancies" in a number of comapanies and being made "redundant" myself. I learnt that my first loyalty is to me.

[Navaros]

why should I go out of my way for an employer who won't return the favour.


you should not

these days, most companies do not care about people. people are not people to them. people are just statistics to be squeezed as hard as possible to maximize the company's profits

they do not care about you, so why care about them?

this is the new world of work

in the olden days it used to be you worked for one corporation for 30 years and then they gave you a gold watch and nice pension

but that's not how things work anymore

in the new world of work, the only thing you should be loyal to is yourself

[Papewaio]

I remember one redundancy the manager stated:

"Its not personal that we are letting you go."

Thing is what kind of loyalty is impersonal loyalty?

loyalty

n 1: the quality of being loyal [ant: disloyalty] 2: feelings of allegiance 3: the act of binding yourself (intellectually or emotionally) to a course of action; "his long commitment to public service"; "they felt no loyalty to a losing team"

So in this modern workforce of liquid workers I always find it funny when managers bemoan unloyal workers while at the same time outsourcing in a flurry.

[t1master]

i owe my allegence to a higher authority, my family, and at the moment the 'corporate gig' pays the bills. meaning, i don't have the liberty to jump ship just yet.

but my loyalty goes no farther than my family, which consists of close friends. i guess i'm still rather tribal ~;)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I will give my summer job 40 hours and my normal job three hours. Never more. And if they don't give me work to do and I can't find some to do, oh well. It is their loss because they are unorganized.

[bmolsson]

It's actually an agreement that you should honor.

I have never been employed so I can only answer the question from the other side. I don't like people put in unrealistic hours of work, since it will decrease quality and often give the staff member family problems.
For me a task should be finished and taken care off. Most of the people working for me have a bonus, which is given when the objectives are met.......

A happy worker is a good worker.... ~:cheers:

[Red Harvest]

So in this modern workforce of liquid workers I always find it funny when managers bemoan unloyal workers while at the same time outsourcing in a flurry.

Yep, they think the door only swings one way, an interesting double standard. It was kind of fun watching the managers scurry around in a panic as folks tendered resignations. I remember one manager telling a friend of mine that if he left, it would foul up some of the projects and would undoubtedly cost some managers their bonuses--and he wasn't kidding. ~D

Much of this reveals bigger problems though: companies/industries erode as their products mature and they begin to fade. A long term retraction is an absolute morale killer, and it takes extremely good management to compensate. The incentives disappear for the company to hang onto their best and brightest if the industry is in a long term slide. And their best and brightest tend to read the trends quicker too...

Most large U.S. corporate management teams seem to get their ideas from Dilbert. That is because they all benchmark and emulate each other. What is the best way to above average performance and to set oneself apart? Apparently they believe it is to strive to be just like everyone else...at least if you watch their herdlike moves. ~:cheers:

[Kanamori]

A happy worker is a good worker....

Tell that to my employers...when school comes, I'm glad I'll have no more 12 hour days w/ a 30 min break. I'm still pretty obsessive about the job, so it gets done well...they won't get a smile on my face though when I'm not trying to get a better tip ~;)

[JimBob]

I worked a job once in a cube farm but my praire dog cohorts scared me off (and the boss, I loathe that man). So now I do odd jobs and such so most of my work is for friends and family or in the neighborhood so I'm pretty loyal and work till I get to a place to stop then I move on.

[English assassin]

Im totally loyal to my employer and would never leave him as Im self employed for the most part.

Me too, although I suppose its more accurate to say all of the partners here employ each other. Actually, it would probably be really accurate to say we are all employed by the HR, Marketing and accounts departments, since I am quite sure the firm exists primarily to give employment to those people and the fact that we actually do any legal work for clients is merely incidental.

As an employer (of a sort), and ignoring the fact that our assistant lawyers aren't contracted to fixed hours anyway, I don't particular have an issue with people whose attitude is "I'm paid for 40 hours and I will work 40 hours" provided that (1) they do actually work the 40 hours and not spend all their time on fag breaks etc and (2) if they can't get their work done in that time they tell me asap rather than let it build up to a huge crisis.

People who insist on sticking to 40 hours in a busy week, but still feel they can bunk of early in a slack week, do not meet with my approval either...

I also think its the firm's responsibility to identify people who regularly have to work significantly longer than a reasonable week (easy enough from the time recording software we use) and arrange for additional support to bring their workload back down to a manageable level. It's in no ones interest for people to make themselves ill. We do occasionally have to insist that people take their holidays, for instance.

[edyzmedieval]

Are we communists(socialists) to talk about work?! ~D

Gah....Get a life y'all!!!!

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

I work on average around 50-55 hours a week. There are some slow and high times. Corpo finance is pretty seasonal!

If it's getting slow, I can be out quite early (like 6 pm), if not, they sky, the limit.
The only exception I make, and that is not related to my workload, is to be present if I ask my staff for some extra. A bit dumb I guess, even if I got nothing much to do, I still feel I got to be there. Definitly a bad habit I shall drop.

However loyalty is not about hours worked. What keeps me long hours sometimes is that my job is interesting and challenging. Otherwise I'd be gone!

I don't consider myself loyal: ther day an outside company wants to hire me for a better job/ location/ wage/ future opportunities, I know I'll leave.
I got a nice job, with some good future potential right now: am not complaining, and I am not looking actively. But if someone got something better and wants me, hey! I'm out before you know it!

Louis,

[el_slapper]

Paid for 37 hours a week. Required to do 40 ~D

Extra hours paid only between 8pm & 8am (very good, by the way). Not between 8am & 8pm.

And when There are emergencies, well, I'm doing extra work. But this is not loyalty towarsd the employer - this is towards the customer. Last time, 400,000 customers were waiting for their dividend, & we had a slight problem. I have no hesitation doing extra for that. OTOH, if it is just a crappy project that is late, bah, who cares? My boss? Hell to my boss ~;)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

BTW My job is a summer job, so no loyalty there, if I had a job where they treated me well and didn't hire me to make me do things the union workers wouldn't do I might be loyal. Also if they gave me the correct amount of time over and didn't keep screwing me out of my days off...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If I can get away with doing nothing, I will. In fact, even if I can't get away with it, I'll still try.

[Colovion]

http://www.crimethinc.com/

[GoreBag]

I work my 37 and a half hours a week and that's it. If I was running my own business, things would be different, and the same would go if I was doing something I really liked for a living.

[JimBob]

bless ye Colovion

[Colovion]

:bow:

CrimethInc for Beginners (http://www.crimethinc.com/library/english/libdays.html) changed my outlook on life. I strongly recommend it to everyone.

[scooter_the_shooter]

:help: They are strange colivon. They seem like abunch of anti government anarchist hippies (i didnt read any articles but the titles were enough to make me not waste my time) no offense meant but what do they have to do with working

[Colovion]

ceasar010 your truncated words do not implore me to explain things a little effort can reveal to you; my name is spelt Colovion. :bow:

i don't blame you for your short attention span, perhaps one day you will get around to reading an article or two.

here's one to click on

one (http://www.crimethinc.com/library/english/alien.html)

[GonZ]

I'm very loyal to my employer.

He's fair, doesn't work me too hard, never argues with me on a decision.

The only problem is the variable earnings - but hey, that's self employment for you.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Unemployed, but I work at what I do (I have several non official non taxable jobs, er, services. Mainly writing things for people for money and the like) I do what I get paid to do and absolutly nothing more. Why the [****] should I?