Freemasonry

[Roark]

I was thinking about the Tavern's Backroom today, and the thread about politics and religion being the main fare for this great forum. This led me to remembering what I know of Freemasonry, in that politics and religion are the only two topics of conversation which are banned in this peculiar brotherhood.

I've been discussing the brotherhood with friends recently, along with other "secret" societies (as I recently discovered that my maternal grandfather was a Mason). I have come to realise that people have massively varying views on them. My father, for instance, honestly believes that they are (or were) a white supremacist movement. He's not a stupid man, and fairly broadly read, but I was pretty surprised to hear this from him, as it is not the impression I had gleaned from my own research. Another friend of mine praises their charitable works, and he plans to become initiated into the society.

I'm interested in getting input from you guys.

Do you have any experiences with Freemasonry? What is your impression of this fraternity? Are any of your family or friends members?

Thanks.

[King of Atlantis]

My friends grandpa is one, and im pretty sure he isnt a white supremist. Won day i think i might go to one of their centers and check it out as they dont seem to be a dangerous society.

Of the american signers of declaration, only a couple were known not to be masons. The statue of liberty is from french masons, the pyrimid on the back of the dollar is a mason symbol too. So, they were very powerful.

[PanzerJaeger]

If i remember correctly it was an off shoot of the Templars and held a lot of power in the past.

These days they seem pretty harmless as far as holding actual power, and promote strong morals such as charity, honesty, and being a generally good person.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I'll I know of the Masons is from the movie "National Treasure." Such a cool movie.

I have my suspiscions as towards its historical accuracy, though.

[King of Atlantis]

some stuff from the movie is real, like the founding fathers being masons and the eye on the back of the dollar. Other than that most of the stuff is probably false.

[Lemur]

If you believe what you read, the Freemasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemason) were formed around a lot of Enlightenment ideals, which would go a long way toward explaining why so many Founding Fathers were members. If this is correct, it would go a long way toward explaining why they seem so quaint these days. The notion that you shouldn't take orders from a religious figure, that reason can be applied to most problems, that Democracy, goodwill and charity can make the world a better place ... well, those ideas are so common now that it's hard to see why it merited a secret society 400 years ago.

The Masons are also supposed to be very non-dogmatic in both religion and politics. We could use some more of that attitude today.

[Gregoshi]

My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason. A couple of weeks ago I posted my few personal recollections and observations about Masonry in the secret societies (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=50094) thread in the Monastery. You can read my comments there if you are interested.

I found some stats on Mason membership numbers. The number of Masons in the US peaked in the mid-60's at just over 4 million members. As of 2001, membership is down to about 1.7 million. They appear to be a dying breed. A link to those stats is in the above mentioned thread.

[Roark]

Thanks Gregoshi!

[Al Khalifah]

The whole movement used to stink of a deprival of meritocracy in society to me. Secret societies and brootherhoods may be fine for those who are members, but they can be a complete pain for those who are not.

[King of Atlantis]

They appear to be a dying breed.

Which is why i must join them someday ~:)

[Franconicus]

Allways thought that we were the real ones? Isn't Kukrikhan the Grandmaster ~:confused:

Jokes aside. As far as I know Freemasonary see their heritage in the builders of the big cathedrals - gothic, you know. They keep their secrects. Only very few inlightened leaders know the secret at all. This made some people think that it is the same secret that the Templers were supposed to have and they made this connections.

There were times when it was en vogue to be member and were the societies were not secret at all. There were also times were they were forbidden.
As far as I know there are quiet a lot different societies and they are not friends.

[edyzmedieval]

What are Masons anyway?! ~:confused:

[King Henry V]

The first Freemasons were supposed to have built Solomon's temple in Jerusalem.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

They are evil! Evil evil evil!
Read up on them at:
http://falangist.com/masons.htm

[Don Corleone]

Yeah, no offense to anyone who might be a mason or related to one, but their history among Catholics in this country isn't so good. They didn't like Catholics, because of the Pope, and there was a legend (myth? fact?) that they took their oaths with the blood of a Catholic they had killed on initiation night. For all I know, these were stories invented by RC priests to keep their parishoners from associating with them, but I know in Boston & New York, there was a lot of violence there...

[Red Harvest]

If you want a better feel for the history, check the Wikipedia link.

Wiki Freemasonry link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry)

It would be best to ignore much of the RC comments on Freemasonry. Historically the church was rather protective of its power. "The most vigorous opposition to the fraternity has come from the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is openly hostile to Freemasonry, deeming it at least partly responsible for the French Revolution and the resulting decline of the church in Europe."

Catholics can be Freemasons, and there are Catholic members. The requirements for membership are rather simple and non-denominational. Catholics are often members of "secret societies" despite various prohibitions. Many of my college frat brothers were/are Catholic.

"The Free Methodist Church continues to prohibit its members from also joining societies such as the Freemasons. Recently the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest association of Baptists in the United States, also stated that participation in Freemasonry is inconsistent with its beliefs."

In essense, what you have is certain intolerant Christian groups opposing Freemasonry. That is not unusual, many churches are jealous organizations by nature.

[King of Atlantis]

masons are not evil. :furious3:

[Don Corleone]

Well, Red, I certainly allow for that. Last I checked, no hairy palms. :dizzy2:

What's the RC church's beef? No competing loyalties, they want everyone strictly obediant to the Church?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What's the RC church's beef?

The usual. Heresy.

[KafirChobee]

Grandfathers (back a few generations even), and father were all Masons. I, opted not when they asked (did join the BPOE - Elks, for 15 years tho - what can I say, my Dad was a joiner and it was one night out with the men). A few years ago a friend asked me if I might be interested in joining, and pointed out some of the advantages it "might" bring to my business (then).
Which is to some degree true, but is not what they as an organization is about. I mean, brothers (fraternal or otherwise) do help one another out. No?

The rules to join, or be enlisted are simple. Be an honest man, be a believer in God, believe in the humanity of man for man, and never deceive a fellow Mason. They run their own type of security check also. They don't want people joining simply for the "connections" (that by doing so) it may avail them, but to do so to better oneself and his environment (social, political, religious, family, etc).

Again, I opted not to be a candidate (even though I was a shoo in because of my heritage). Now, understand, I have had a Top Secret clearance (and they talk to your 3rd grade teacher for you to get it - just about) - but, the idea of allowing a "club" to investigate my past? Well, I'll pass.

Still, I do feel they do many possitive things. Supporting children hospitals, care for the elderly, and staying fairly apolitical in the process of things.

Those demonizing the Masons, need to look at themselves a bit closer. It's the Moose Halls we really got to worry about! ~:cheers:

[Red Harvest]

What's the RC church's beef? No competing loyalties, they want everyone strictly obediant to the Church?

I think that is part of it, a combination of the historical issues and obedience to the Church above others. I'm not well versed on all of this and am not much of a religious scholar. The RC Church has changed considerably, but it was a huge powerbroker for centuries, more powerful than most individual kingdoms/nations. My own *personal* belief is that the Church structure was a major step back from Christ's teachings--I don't see the Church structure as being necessary, nor would I ever recognize it as an arbiter between myself and God. (In defense of the Church, the lack of literacy, and benefits of organization do favor their approach in earlier centuries--to a degree.) The RC Church essentially created this structure of clergy that was the intercessary (and arbiter) between man and God. This is counter to many protestant teachings--at least in degree, although it depends very much on the particular denomination. The RC Church also was essential to supporting the monarchies. As such Freemasonry's structure would be more supportive of the protestant approach and a threat to the organized Catholic church, but not necessarily to its individual members.

Various protestant groups separated from the RC Church, and as a result of first RC's trying to reassert their powers, then the protestants trying to solidify theirs there is a very bloody history of oppression by whichever had authority. Each side drove to extremes--such as the RC's and the Covenanters in Scotland, etc. No doubt that this spilled over into Freemasonry. The link indicates that Scottish policemen who were masons were often seen as repressing the Catholic minority. Remember in the 1700-1900 time frame not alligning could get you killed just as well as alligning. This probably spurred growth of Freemasonry in the educated classes below nobility.

One of the interesting things in the Wiki link is the discussion of how Freemasons were more supportive of a non-denominational approach and secular govt. which is an extension of that. (Remember: Organized religion has historically been required to approve of monarchs in almost all cultures.) Freemasonry opposes atheism, and recognizes God, while at the same time seeking to limit the role of organized religion in the state. You can see that view in the Founding Fathers approach: recognize God, but keep the churches at arm's length.

A number of churches today are trying to assert themselves politically and move towards recognition of their particular denominational views in govt. Opposing Freemasonry would be one way of keeping the flock consistent with their own agenda. It is interesting that Freemasonry won't discourage membership in a Church (and my reading is that it is in fact encouraged or anticipated that most would be churchmen), but that Churches would forbid their members to be Freemasons.

I have not asked to become a mason, nor have I decided if I will, although there are several masons that I know of in my family and extended family. So whatever info I'm giving is purely my own reading between the lines, following a few links, and my rather incomplete understanding of theology and history.

[Snowhobbit]

Intresting thread, where do I sign up? ~;)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Freemasons are basically the ANTICatholic Mafia, IMHO. Therefore, from the point of view of a Catholic, they are EVIL EVIL EVIL!
BTW Once I got bored and looked did some research on freemasonry. My father thinks their evil too and he doesn't like Catholics too much.

[scooter_the_shooter]

EVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL
EVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL



Now thats out of my system WHY are those masons even around they have no use what so ever any more

[Steppe Merc]

Is helping people wrong or evil? Hell, I even give the Church points for their work with charities, and I have little good to say about them.

[Roark]

there was a legend (myth? fact?) that they took their oaths with the blood of a Catholic they had killed on initiation night...

Sounds remarkably similar to accusations that were directed against the Jews during the Inquisition...



Now thats out of my system WHY are those masons even around they have no use what so ever any more

A significant portion of their work is dedicated to charity, it seems.

[Lazul]

well since the Catholic church is evil... that kinda evens it out! ~;)

my grandfather was a part of the freemasons. He neve told anyone anything about what they did and he died before I got the chance to try and press him on information.
My mother thou, told me she got angry once at her father becouse he never told her anything and got kinda frustrated and told her that they were only a gang of old men eating good food, singing songs and collecting money to help the poor.

ooohh... eeeevil! pfft

added: also, while we are on the subject. I doubt the freemasons have anything to do with the Templars. BUT, even here in Halmstad we have a house owned by the Templar Knights... :dizzy2:
But they are just some weird christian order that has nothing to do with the old Templars.