How to defeat Parthians in open battle?

[econ21]

I'm trying a Seleucid campaign (in RTR but I don't think that matters much here). I am puzzled as to how to go about defeating the Parthians in a pitched battle (I know they are weak besieging towns). In the early game, I've only phalanx, peltasts and javelin slinging cavalry so it is very hard to touch the horse archers. Is it just a matter of waiting to build massed archers? Even with foot archers, horse archers doing the Cantabrian circle seem hard to hit. I guess scorpions/ballistas might be even better.

Any advice gratefully received!

[PseRamesses]

I'm trying a Seleucid campaign (in RTR but I don't think that matters much here). I am puzzled as to how to go about defeating the Parthians in a pitched battle (I know they are weak besieging towns). In the early game, I've only phalanx, peltasts and javelin slinging cavalry so it is very hard to touch the horse archers. Is it just a matter of waiting to build massed archers? Even with foot archers, horse archers doing the Cantabrian circle seem hard to hit. I guess scorpions/ballistas might be even better.

Any advice gratefully received!
Just hard work m8! Bring a lot of Podromoi (initially) and try corner their horse archers with 2-3 Pods. When close enough charge (ctrl+right click) and they will route easy. Pursue them off the map though otherwise they´ll come back to taunt you again. Be prepared to take heavy losses. Normally I´ve 10:1 in killratio but on the early stages on the Seleucid campaign I normally get around 3:2 or even 4:3 in my favour.
The key with all warfare is to bring the fight to the enemies own backyard this way you have the initiative and not they. As you said the Parthians are poor besiegers so don´t worry if they lay seige to one, two or even three of your towns. Go on the offense. In just 3 moves, from Seleukia, you can start besieging their capitol so do so with you army there. The other army, at Antioch, I often strike the Ptolemies at turn one. Now, I play RTR so it´s a bit different as the P´s will hit Seleukia, Hatra or Susa, and Hecatompylos in the second or third turn. Knowing this I´m already at their gates with my armies and will sack them and eliminate the whole faction before they can hurt me (if I´m lucky). Good luck!

[Eaglefirst]

Don't fight them in open battle ~;) . The computer doesn't use their HA very well but if you have no archers simply place a fort down when your armies are moving and let them try to siege you.I have never played as Seleucia but I play Parthia almost exclusively and their are two things my HA heavy armies fear Cataphracts and Scythed Chariots. Playing smart with your HA's you can destroy the Chariots but the computer is to stupid to focus all fire on the chariots first. Parthia controlled by the AI should never beat you in a siege even if you have all militia hoplites.Scorpions/ Ballistae are a waste since by the time they kill 5 of the enemy HA's the Men manning the unit will be shot to shreds. Besides the best option which is mass foot archers you can try bringing 4-5 Light Cavalry. They will take heavy losses but the idea is to have all 4-5 attack 1 HA from different angles. The AI will get it's HA stuck in a corner then you can kill it and move to the next one. Also your generals unit is near impervious to Arrows so chase them to a corner with him and kill with your lighter cav.

[lars573]

A temple of Hephestus will serve you well. Javeling cav from a town with a Hephestus temple will have the speed to catch Parthian HA. And the attack buff from the temple to best them in hand to hand combat. Use the Phalanxes as bait keep the militia cav on the sides and further back.

[Horatius]

Don't fight them in open battle ~;) . The computer doesn't use their HA very well but if you have no archers simply place a fort down when your armies are moving and let them try to siege you.I have never played as Seleucia but I play Parthia almost exclusively and their are two things my HA heavy armies fear Cataphracts and Scythed Chariots. Playing smart with your HA's you can destroy the Chariots but the computer is to stupid to focus all fire on the chariots first. Parthia controlled by the AI should never beat you in a siege even if you have all militia hoplites.Scorpions/ Ballistae are a waste since by the time they kill 5 of the enemy HA's the Men manning the unit will be shot to shreds. Besides the best option which is mass foot archers you can try bringing 4-5 Light Cavalry. They will take heavy losses but the idea is to have all 4-5 attack 1 HA from different angles. The AI will get it's HA stuck in a corner then you can kill it and move to the next one. Also your generals unit is near impervious to Arrows so chase them to a corner with him and kill with your lighter cav.

Forts are easy to beat, they are not significant enough to even qualify as a siege, they just bust through the wall easily with battering rams.

[lars573]

Or elephant heads.

[The_Mark]

Corner AI HAs. Yes. That's the thing. I did try that once, with three levy phalangites and one general against one HA unit, manouvering for fifteen minutes to get my phalangites into position and getting the HAs in the corner. Even though exploiting the game, it did feel pretty good once my phalangites closed in for the kill and almost closed the gaps between themselves. Finally, the bloody HAs were trapped, my phalangites closing in on them to deliver a fast, pointy-stick death upon them - and what do they do? The HAs cross the red line, circle around and start shooting my stunned phalangites into their backs. Almost broke my esc-key on that.

[Arphaxad]

I doubt i can do you as much help as the earlier posts,(which taught me some things i didn't even know...) I Really like posting, and helping so ill do as best i can. ~D

I havent plaved enough to be in your situation, but i do know one thing, As the selucid empire you have great power in your hands, Parthia on the other hand, not so much. My advice is wait til you have elephants, then the foolish parthians will crumble before your awesomeness. They have nothing to counter it, and even if they did, the AI wouldnt know what to do with it. SO thats all i have to say, Wiat for the elepahnts and the silver shield infantries, then no parthian can stop you.But if your impatient, or too tired to wait, concentrate on building an army of your best units, by selecting the top notch units from all of your different armies and patching them together to make an uber-army. Oh yeah and ive known people who use all cavalry armies, and they are completely unstoppable. especially thanks to the dumb AI. :dizzy2:

Sorry thats all i got....

-Arphaxad ~:)

[Conqueror]

If you can trick the parthians to use Cantabrian Circle formation (pepper them with missiles to do this) then they will become slower to skirmish and even more vulnerable to melee. Militia cavalry should be able to catch them more easily then, and once they have begun melee, you can charge with a better melee cavalry (such as Arabian mercenary cavalry) to finish them off.

In any case, it's best to use spies to recon the countryside and plan your armies' movement so that you'll get to attack their cities without fighting them in desert. Using small, expendable armies as baits to draw the parthians away from your main attack force can help alot.

[Eaglefirst]

Forts may be easy to break but the parthians won't siege your fort and you can ignore their army until you get to your destination. Also they can break the walls of a fort but if they can't get in the fort because of your hoplites. Another trick that would be expensive but work the best would be mercenaries. Hire Bedouin Archers whenever possible and build an army of those. Bedouin Archers can beat Horse Archers 1 on 1 in a melee or a missle fight and they get bonuses fighting in the desert and fighting horses. They should be able to destroy any Parthian army aslong as you keep around 5-6 in one group. The problem is there expensive. By the way you find them in the southern part of map especially in the Arabia region.

[antisocialmunky]

Do the Parthians not have Catanks in RTR? Cuz... those things were scary in RTW when used with HA. That was one of the best 1-2 punches in the game.

[pezhetairoi]

It may help to note that Alexander defeated the Scythian HAs by putting forwards his phalanx as bait in a long line, while his light cavalry struck wide along the edges of the battle field to get in rear of the HA and drive them into the waiting spears of the phalanx, as his Companions drove straight into the centre of the Scythian mass. Losses taken, but cavalry should be the decisive arm. Lots of cavalry.

Strategically outside the battle screen, don't war with the Parthians until you have cavalry capabilities. If they attack do not face them in combat or relieve the siege, but instead conduct indirect warfare by striking their cities in turn. They will be forced to return to defend.

A crucial element of your strategy against HA factions consists of one word: Bribe. The instant any army is spotted that is led by a captain, whether or not it threatens you, bribe it. One less HA unit is one less scourge on the earth's surface.

Remember always also that it's the cities that matter. Never mind that Hannibal won every single field battle, he controlled no cities and lost the war in the end. Strike for their heart; your phalanxes are superior in the confined streets of a city, so use it to good advantage. The enemy HA will have no space to manoeuvre, and will die on your spears much easily and willingly than they would in the field.

Parthians need space; deny it them. Don't fight to their strengths, i.e. don't fight on open fields. But if you are forced to, then you'd better hope for cavalry, or you'll just have to form square, wait out the arrow storm, then wait for their charge like Crassus was unable to do at Carrhae.

[Spartiate]

In RTR the Parthian army that initially attacks you when you play the SE (every damn time) is composed almost entirely of Katank Auxilliaries and Cat HAs Auxilliary units with a few ordinary HAs and some Sparabara methinks.This is undoubtedly the most dangerous and powerful army on the map during the first 20 turns at least.When they attack i always retreat and make peace unless i can get a family member up into the passes to make forts before they reach me.As mentioned earlier they are terrible at siege warfare so your forts will hold long enough to develop some decent armies as they always break the siege every second turn for some unknown reason.
I personally have been unable to defeat them with even numbers using my starting army of Militia Hoplites and Prodomoi as even their HAs are tougher than these troops.The Cat HAs it is pointless to try and corner as they are more than capable of charging through the front ranks of MIlitia Hoplites and anyway the mighty Katanks themselves are waiting so you can never angle a flank to deal with any HAs.The best i have done is to inflict fairly even casualties and count myself lucky.
Hold them off with forts and then get a few Phalangites and go Horsey Hunting.

[pezhetairoi]

In short, the RTR Parthians need our no-field-battle strategy even more than the Vanilla version does.

[nanoboy]

My experience is that you want to use archers. Protect them with hoplites or something. Loosen their formations, and fight a battle of attrition. Foot archers have more range and firepower. They can also accumulate more losses. And, they're cheaper. You have to just turtle-up and wear them down. You can chase their horse archers with light cavalry, but that's typically a waste, as the horse archers will pepper your light cavalry wearing them down.

If they bring cataphracts, that is a problem. You have to force them to charge at your phalanxes. Your phalanxes will take appreciable losses, but they'll hurt the cataphracts something awful. Be vary wary of flanking maneuvers. In the few times that the computer has bested me in a reasonably fair fight, they have done it with cavalry flanking. I simply wasn't paying enough attention.

[Spartiate]

@ Nanoboy

Hey welcome to the org. ~:)

Your strategy is indeed one of the correct ones but what he is asking is how to beat them in battle in the early game when only Peltasts, Prodomoi and Militia Hoplites are available to you.Plus this is in Rome Total Realism against a Parthian army full of Cats and Cat Archers that start just inside your borders.No Archers available to you yet and damn all hope of getting them for a good few turns.
Believe me............it's harder than you think.

[pezhetairoi]

The only solution to a cataphract charge when faced with only infantry is to form a multi-unit defence in depth. Scatter your hoplites, so that they can only engage one unit at a time, and so other units can come to the support with some stategic space to manoeuvre into flanking attacks. Try to have a bracing line of hoplites just behind the one that is about to take the attack. As the cats break through they will lose momentum just in time to meet the backup phalanx coming up. With their charge bonus gone, and militia hoplites being unarmoured, their armour-piercing attacks will have no effect, meaning they are at a very bad disadvantage as cavalry usually are against phalanxes. Losses, but winnable. As to the cat archers, though, the only solution I guess is to wait them out and hope they either quickly run out of ammo or get caught up in the cat charge enough to join in and die on your spears as well. Forget peltasts. They are too vulnerable, and they can't catch the cavalry anyway. THe only thing that vaguely stands a chance is the prodromoi, and even that is doubtful. Best you field only a small force in the true Greek fashion.