Hunting good sport or cruel hobby??

[scooter_the_shooter]

Do you think hunting should be allowed or not.(hunting of animals) If so what restrictions should be in place on it.



I think hunting should be legal, and you should be ables to use any gun/bow you want to hunt with there is no such thing as over kill.


Many hunting laws are ridiculous They will let me use a 12 gauge slug on deer but not a 30-30 rifle which is less powerful.


Some say semi automatics should be banned for hunting this comment is made mostly by non hunters. If you are goose hunting you need a double barrel or semi automatic. preferably a good semi.

Some say rifles with scopes or red dots (a red dot isn't a laser) are not fair to the animal ~:confused: this is also said by non hunters usually. These people say this trying to help the animals but are only cause more pain to them. Wether I got a scope or not I am shooting at the animal... with a scope I have a better chance of killing it quick with out one I might not hit it in a vital area, then I have to go track the wounded animal down which isn't pleasant for the hunter or the huntee.

Another thing that annoys me is the statement (this part is just a rant)

"Real hunters use bolt actions" WTH If you have a licence are in the field looking for an animal to eat you are a hunter is doesn't matter if you have a bolt action or an ar15 with 6 high cap mags with you.

And another thing this really doesn't have much to do with the debate but why are hunters demonized in todays society as rednecks or stupid or mean or cruel. The VAST majority of hunters are very nice people.


Edit I also think there need to be bag limits on public hunting land only. On private land I think it should be "your land your animals"


what are your opinions

[Beirut]

Many hunting laws are ridiculous They will let me use a 12 gauge slug on deer but not a 30-30 rifle which is less powerful.

This is done to reduce the distance at which the deer can be shot, making it harder to hunt and allows the deer a better chance to repopulate the species. Sometimes it is also done near urban areas to reduce the risk of bullet overflights into residential neighbourhoods. Mind you, with the new slugs, rifled shotgun barrels and shotgun mounted scopes, much longer slug shots than before are the norm.


"Real hunters use bolt actions" WTH If you have a licence are in the field looking for an animal to eat you are a hunter is doesn't matter if you have a bolt action or an ar15 with 6 high cap mags with you.



For my part I would have no respect for someone who hunts with an AR-15. It's simply... ungentlemanly. There is an esthetic quality to the hunter and his gun, and using an assault rifle to hunt deer (aside from the inadequacy of the .223 round) is not in keeping with any sort of tradition. You can wear shorts and a t-shirt to your mother's funeral as well, clothes are clothes after all, but it does detract from the situation at some level.

[scooter_the_shooter]

a 30-30 is almost like a slug.

And ar15s with longer barrels are getting pretty popular with ground hog hunters.

I don't mean just ar15s only i meant "military style" rifles in general. Many people use a sks on deer.


If i had the choice between a bolt 223 and an ar15. Almost any one would take the ar it is very accurate and you get quick follow up shots I would use one if they were cheaper.

[King of Atlantis]

Well, i never really hunted, but i love fishing and their really the same concept..

Hunting is fine as long as it doesn't hurt the population of a species.

[PanzerJaeger]

Hunting is a fun and rewarding sport. Its one of the oldest and most honored tradition in human history.

Actually, hunters know conservation better than anyone else.

[Steppe Merc]

I don't think it's a sport or a hobby. It may be neccassary, and as long as the hunter doesn't sit up in a tree or something, and they eat the meat.


Edit I also think there need to be bag limits on public hunting land only. On private land I think it should be "your land your animals"
No. Because as unlikely as it is, over hunting could occur, and destroy more of what little left of nature.

And my... well, I don't know how he's related to me, but I think he is, anyway, he's a hunter, and he's nice enough.


And ar15s with longer barrels are getting pretty popular with ground hog hunters.
Um, can't you just get a dog? My mom is good friends with someone who owns a stable, and they keep dogs that hunt groundhogs so they don't dig holes that the horses can step in and break their leg. They have to wear large leather collar to protect from groundhog bites.
And I can't imagine those buggers being particulary tasty...

And hunting with a gun for food is one thing. I will never condone any sort of hunting for fur, any sort of endangered or threatened animal, or that uses leg traps, or anything of that nature.

[bmolsson]

Hunting is not a sport, it's a job. Only professionals should hunt.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Most people leave ground hog in the field, and let them rot . Some people I know eat young ground hogs they are supposed to be real tender.


Whats wrong with being in a tree???? Killing an animal on the ground and killing an animal in the tree wont make it any more or less dead.


If i am MY land its MY nature. I should be able to shoot any critters or chop any trees i want (except for endangered ones of course.


I don't want to use a dog cause its more fun to shoot them ~:cheers:


You have to take a 100 question test and and spent about 6-10 hours in that class just get a hunting license is that good enough for you.(in most states)


And why do you think only professionals should hunt... have you ever hunted if not thats like never driving and saying "only professionals should drive"

Hunting is a great american tradition no one should take it away.

[Xiahou]

I dont hunt, never have, and probably never will. However, I don't see any problem with it and it can serve a useful purpose.

[bmolsson]

Whats wrong with being in a tree????


I was editing my post hundreds of time before I decided to be nice today..... ~:grouphug:



And why do you think only professionals should hunt... have you ever hunted if not thats like never driving and saying "only professionals should drive"


Yes, I have hunted and I own property on which I have a professional hunter keeping the wildlife in balance. The meat is used and nothing is wasted or left to rot. I don't understand how killing ever can be a sport or funny. :bow:



Hunting is a great american tradition no one should take it away.


No, there is nothing Amercian with hunting. :book:

[Samurai Waki]

Well, even though I am not a hunter. I do consider it valid. I am from Montana where hunting is a huge attraction for the locals, and over the last year or so because of the weather there is now an abnormally large elk and deer population. Large enough in fact to where the local government has declared that up to 2 Deer Permits will be allowed for the next year per person. The Deer Population is more so a hazard than the elk to the economy, because they move into populated areas and get hit by motorists because they are looking for something to eat I.E. People's Plants and Grass. So I think as long as conservation is quintessential to hunting, than hunters will continue. I believe in Montana if the government all of a sudden said "okay you can't hunter anymore" 99.9% of the Hunters would tell the government to go snuff it and hunt illegally. It's such an old tradition that just taking it away would do more harm than good.

[Xiahou]

Yes, I have hunted and I own property on which I have a professional hunter keeping the wildlife in balance. The meat is used and nothing is wasted or left to rot. I don't understand how killing ever can be a sport or funny. :bow: So unless someone can afford to hire a "professional" hunter, I guess they don't get to hunt?

[Kanamori]

Bmolsson, here the Department of Natural Resources sell licenses based on how much they need to thin out our herd. Typically, anyone that wants one can get it, because we have terrible problems with deer overpopulation.

[Roark]

I think game hunting is fine, as long as it doesn't threaten the existence of a species.

Obviously shooting is necessary as a form of pest control in some countries too...

I consider trophy hunting to be wasteful and highly masturbatory.

[Red Harvest]

a 30-30 is almost like a slug.

And a car is almost a truck. A 12 gauge slug will hit ~1600 fps, while a 30-30 will be in the neighborhood of 2400 fps. I prefer a 270 myself, pushing about 3000 fps. A bolt action rifle can be put to efficient use at 300 yards, a while a shotgun is a short range weapon.



If i had the choice between a bolt 223 and an ar15. Almost any one would take the ar it is very accurate and you get quick follow up shots I would use one if they were cheaper.

223 is more of a varmint gun, simply not enough mass for my tastes. I'm not too concerned about what you use (within the bounds of the season regs) as long as you bring it down, rather than spraying at it and just wounding it.

[Red Harvest]

The reason there are bag limits and that you can't kill as much as you want on private property is that much of the wild game moves about. If my neighbors were allowed to kill everything they see, it wouldn't be long until turkey and deer become rare on my property. Plus it would tend to recreate islands of surviving populations.

The bag and season limits are meant to manage the populations. Most of the game conservation laws came about to make sure there was game to hunt. Left unregulated, some would hunt game to extinction.

[bmolsson]

So unless someone can afford to hire a "professional" hunter, I guess they don't get to hunt?

If they can't afford it they could educate them selves as hunter and take the job for somebody that have the money. ~;)

[bmolsson]

Bmolsson, here the Department of Natural Resources sell licenses based on how much they need to thin out our herd. Typically, anyone that wants one can get it, because we have terrible problems with deer overpopulation.

That is ok as long as the hunters are professionals (in the sense, they know what they doing and is not a bunch of drunk city slickers out for some John Wayne holiday)....... ~;)

[Papewaio]

Opossums in NZ are an imported pest, people hunt them, skin them and sell their fur.

No problem with that.

In Australia they are a somewhat (depends on the variety) endangered native animal. So they are not allowed to be hunted.

No problem with that either.

[Marshal Murat]

I think hunting is a time-honored tradition, very fun and rewarding.
However, some people are like
"You killed Bambi's mom!!!"
Hunting is one way to keep deer population down. If it gets to low, then you can't hunt, and then it rises, and the process goes on.

[bmolsson]

I remember when I was a kid, growing up in the deep forests of Småland in Southern of Sweden. The elk hunt is very famous here. Germans comes to participate in the hunt. It's like a holiday for them with good food and a lot of drinking. I especially remember 1974, when the following where killed during the elk hunting season:

3 elk calves
1 large male
2 females
1 John Deer tractor
2 cows (one survived)
1 Volvo Amazon model 1968
1 German Shepard (the dog)

This was a very successful hunt, since more than 50% actually where elks.......

And no, the hunters where not professionals, but they really like the tradition and enjoys carry a big gun........

[Papewaio]

Wow taking down a Volvo is like a Bull Elephant... ~;)

[Phatose]

It's ok by me, provided it meets the following conditions:

1. You don't hunt the prey to extinction.
2. You follow all local laws and regulations.
3. You don't define hunting as getting drunk and shooting stuff.
4. You don't do anything that might result in me taking a bullet in my living room.
5. You don't hunt dogs, cats, guinea pigs, or people.
6. You're using something other then a flamethrower, skin-em-alive-o-matic, or chevy.

[Ronin]

i think hunting for sport is wrong....

on the other hand if you eat what you hunt and keep it to certain limits i´ve got no problem with that.

[Al Khalifah]

Hunting in England has been made pretty much impossible anyway to all but a few and for professional reasons such as pest control.
I guess we just don't have many interesting species to kill and we don't get firearms. Mind you, I guess you could go hunting with a bow and arrow if you wanted to be hardcore when slaying a rabbit.

[el_slapper]

It has to be controlled. In SW France, we've got some crazy guys which have guns so modified than they work more like machine guns - and they don't care about species extinction.

Of course, the real hunter, the one that does identify ots target before shooting, the one that nows what he's allowed to shoot at, the one that does not use 300 dogs devastating the whole wilderness for shooting 2 pigeons, that one I do respect.

The guy that blackmails officials to reintroduct wild boars into a wood wildly used by tourists for walking, who lets the population of those get uncontrolled to have a reason to launch a massive hunt that ends up with 2 people shoot upon & injured wild boars who will carry diseases, hum, well.....(that wood is 20 km from Paris, and thousands of people walk therein every day god makes, far more in sunny week-ends).

[Fragony]

I just don't see how killing animals can be fun. The population has to be kept in check of course, but hunters should at least be honest for themselves and admit that they just enjoy killing. Something sexual I think.

[Fragony]

The killing isn't the only part of the whole show. There's just something fun about hanging out in the woods, and having to hunt your food like a proper woodlands predator. I wouldn't call it sexual, I'd call it getting back to basics. And it's a very fun thing to do now and then.

I can understand it's appeal, but killing these beautiful animals is such a waste! But if 'back to the basics' is the motivation I guess there is little alternative besides fishing, which I enjoy myselve now that I think of it. I must be a bit of a hypocrite ~;)

[Redleg]

a 30-30 is almost like a slug.

Incorrect a 30-30 is not a slug - I good get into the physics of ballistics about how a round fired through a long barrel rifle that is shaped like a bullet has a longer range then a shotgun slug which is not shapped - but given this statement I am wont waste my time.



And ar15s with longer barrels are getting pretty popular with ground hog hunters.

Different type of hunting then deer hunting. The accuracy need to shoot at ground hogs mean that the average shooter can not hit the small little animal, so therefor there are different regulations for the hunting of these animals then larger game. Same as there is different regulations for hunting birds - often by species also



I don't mean just ar15s only i meant "military style" rifles in general. Many people use a sks on deer.


Non that I know of - most deer hunters I know use bolt action rifles to hunt deer.



If i had the choice between a bolt 223 and an ar15. Almost any one would take the ar it is very accurate and you get quick follow up shots I would use one if they were cheaper.

If you need more then one shot to take down the deer - then you need to take better aim and be sure of your shot before you take it. If your first shot does not take down the animal - then go look for it, not follow it off with another quick shot. Your chances of hitting the animal are greatly reduced, and often the individual that rapid shoots at the animal is not looking at where the animal is going and is risking other hunter's lives and other animals that were not the intended target. Rapid shooting at a fast moving deer is frankly poor hunting, and very dangerous to every living thing around you.

[Fragony]

Fishing? Feh. Now that's something I don't see the appeal of. Unless it was deep-sea fishing, trying to catch something that is truly a challenge.

Well, fishing is a great excuse to sit in nature with more beer then is healthy. Thrust me, everything is a challenge if you fish like me ~:cheers:

[Ja'chyra]

I think that anyone who calls for a total ban on hunting hasn't given the matter much consideration, how else do you keep wildlife populations manageable, I'm sure the same people would complain if you used poison or re-introduced predators.

Saying that I think it does need to be tightly controlled. I also see no need to have military spec weapons, semi-auto maybe at a push depending on your quarry but no way do you need full auto. Also no way should you be able to hunt whatever happens to cross your lands, while you may be clever enough to figure out if you shoot everything one year you might have nothing the next not everyone will, that's why the experts should impose the limits.

I wouldn't call hunting a sport either, this implies that you are killing things just for the fun but I believe you should only shoot it if you are going to eat it, and preferably skin it too, vermin are another matter.

I have never been hunting but would love to go and learn how to do it and dress the kill afterwards.

[Ser Clegane]

One of my wife's colleagues goes hunting quite often. To my understanding it's quite regulated here, in the sense that there are certain quotas, the hunter has to pay a charge for each animal he shoots, and you need to have some hunting training (which definitely exceeds taking several lessons and answering some questions).

This guy actually mostly does the hunting for the fun of doing something outside in the nature (he often spends the night ouside without actually shooting anything in the end).

The meat is either consumed by himself or sold tro his colleagues (we regularly buy deer or wild boar from him - absolutely fantastic).

So bottomline - if done in a responsible way, I think hunting is a very reasonable hobby/sport. Unfortunately there seem to be enough people who only do it for the thrill of killing/shooting around and give the hunters who act in a responsible manner a bad name (and my impression is that the latter are actually the majority).

[UglyandHasty]

I've hunt since the age of 12 and i dont think i have ever enjoy killing a prey. However, i have enjoy some fine steack of moose ! ~:cheers:

[|OCS|Virus]

Hunting when done right is good for almost everyone, thats all I will say on that.

[edyzmedieval]

It's not a sport, it's a cruel hobby, and it isn't fair to the animals......

[|OCS|Virus]

Well, I think it is a good thing, because it allows a person to eat for what is basicly free. It provides something to do on a weekend, and it is socialy something that guys in particular are supposed to do. And its good exersize. I have explained my thoughts, would you explain yours edy?

[Samurai Waki]

Well Nothing Brightens up my day more than field dressing a deer... man I just get shivers of delight thinking about it... my hands covered in a once living beings warm blood....ooooooo....yeeeeaaaahhhh

[edyzmedieval]

Well, I think it is a good thing, because it allows a person to eat for what is basicly free. It provides something to do on a weekend, and it is socialy something that guys in particular are supposed to do. And its good exersize. I have explained my thoughts, would you explain yours edy?

Yes. :bow:

Although a good hunt can feed you for a whole week, I think it's unfair to the animals that are being killed. Killing a deer for example, with a shotgun, isn't fair. With a bow, I accept it.

It's good exercise also, but I prefer basketball.

Eddy :bow:

[|OCS|Virus]

Fair enough, good argument. :bow:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Who the hell do you know that guts a deer with no gloves~:joker: Every one almost now has some sort of gloves when field dressing big game. My grandpa didn't but every one else I know does.

Red leg they make ar15s in 7.62/39 and 308 now. They are still expensive but are coming down in price.

I don't get in to the ballistic things often i Just figured sense it was rounded like a slug and smaller then it should be similar.


Hunting is not cruel letting the population get out of control with not enough food around is.


ANd whats wrong with a shot gun it wont make it any more dead edyzmedieval

[Kagemusha]

I think hunting is a good hobby.If you do it properly.For example we have lots of wilderness here in Finland.Lots of moose and rabbits,but because humans have setttled almost everywhere there are not so much big predators like bears and wolwes.And there is a reason for it,because large amounts of big predators couldnt co-exist with humans.So we humans have taken the task of those predators,and keep the populations of game in balance.By that we keep the natural balance in nature. :bow:

[|OCS|Virus]

I think he ment because you need no skill to fire a gun, and it gives you an unfair advantage because it is just point and click {correct me if i'm wrong edy} Personaly I don't mind using a shotgun slug. I do it for food mostly. Not much fun in watching something die I'm sorry to say.

[bmolsson]

The best parts of hunting are stalking the animal


Did you have a hard time in school ?? ~:eek:

[Redleg]

Who the hell do you know that guts a deer with no gloves~:joker: Every one almost now has some sort of gloves when field dressing big game. My grandpa didn't but every one else I know does.

Some people know absolutely nothing about hunting - so why respond to stupidty.




Red leg they make ar15s in 7.62/39 and 308 now. They are still expensive but are coming down in price.


And your point - there is absolutely no need to hunt with a semi-automatic rifle unless its rabbits and vermin. Which is exactly the point I made - try again without wondering about why you need an AR-15 to hunt deer.

Deer Hunting should be with a bolt action rifle for the already stated reason. If you can not kill it with the first shot, if you are not sure of your shot - don't shoot. Taking mulitple shots at the animal does not increase your chances of hitting that one - but does indeed make it more dangerous for others.




I don't get in to the ballistic things often i Just figured sense it was rounded like a slug and smaller then it should be similar.


Then you need to study the ballastics of the different weapons. Rifled barrels, type and size of bullet, fps that the bullet is fired at. The number of grains of the powder, the way the weapon is designed, etc.. all have an impact on the range of the weapon. A 30-30 has a far greater effective range then a 12 gauge shotgun slug, the 30-30 round also has a greater travel range then the 12 gauge slug.



Hunting is not cruel letting the population get out of control with not enough food around is.


Agreed - hunting is no more cruel then nature is all by itself. Those who tell me that I can hunt don't understand nature.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I think he ment because you need no skill to fire a gun, and it gives you an unfair advantage because it is just point and click {correct me if i'm wrong edy} Personaly I don't mind using a shotgun slug. I do it for food mostly. Not much fun in watching something die I'm sorry to say.


It is harder then that


Lets take deer hunting for example. You are cold and miserable in the woods. when you see a nice buck about 40 yards off standing broad side many people have buck fever(me i start shaking and don't think one time i forgot to use the sights and missed a deer at 20 yards :help: ) Some people carry to much gun and develop a flinch( i don't know why all they do is miss and hurt their shoulder)

They might hit they might not.

It seems like very hunter has "the one that got away story" And they will mpst likely never see a deer like that again unless they got a place like this.


http://www.ddranch.com/pricing.htm

[Ser Clegane]

http://www.ddranch.com/pricing.htm

I think that's the kind of hunting that I rather dislike. Seems to have nothing to do with controling the population and using the meat afterwards - but rather with the "thrill" of hunting down and killing e.g., a zebra.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I am probably going to go there this year for a wild boar because there are none in the wild in my state ~:)

you still have to look for it they dont just let it out of the cage so bubba with his ak47 can shoot at it.

that said if i go I will use a semi cause my grandpa got attack by 5 boar using bolt action.(luckily he got into a tree in time)

[Ja'chyra]

I think that's the kind of hunting that I rather dislike. Seems to have nothing to do with controling the population and using the meat afterwards - but rather with the "thrill" of hunting down and killing e.g., a zebra.

I agree Ser C, this is hunting for the so called sport, nothing to do with controlling populations or hunting for food just the thrill of the kill, or the thrill of the murder.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm more of a fisherman, specifically deep sea... I might show you a pic of 250 Pound Orange Ruffy I cought. I like deep sea fishing because you sit around and drink beers with your m8's and if you get lucky and a Fish Strikes it gets really intense. I generally don't keep what I catch... but if I do I generally just donate it to the market.

[scooter_the_shooter]

I agree Ser C, this is hunting for the so called sport, nothing to do with controlling populations or hunting for food just the thrill of the kill, or the thrill of the murder.

You caling me a murderer... I am going to eat the danm hog I am only keeping his head for the wall

[scooter_the_shooter]

It is only the people who never hunted that say it is bad.

They are as bad as the people who want to ban guns but have never touched or seen one relying only on streotypes they got from tv about gun owners :furious3:

[Ja'chyra]

It is only the people who never hunted that say it is bad.

They are as bad as the people who want to ban guns but have never touched or seen one relying only on streotypes they got from tv about gun owners :furious3:

Well for a start I never said hunting was bad nor did I call you a murderer.

Let's go back a bit, you said that hunting was good and kept the local wildlife population in check, which I quite agree with. Now you seem to be supporting a company that imports exotic animals for the sole task of being shot. Where is your moral, hunters know best for nature argument now?

So how are these animals kept? Are they allowed to roam free or are they fenced in?

If they are allowed to roam free how does that affect the indiginous wildlife? If they are fenced where is the challenge? Either way hunting permits are available to control the local animals whereas places like this cater to people who just want to be able to kill something different. Why? I can only assume they like killing things?

I'll leave out your questionable taste in decoration. ~:cheers:


Hehe, clearly this guy has never had some nice fresh Deer-Jerky.

What's this got to do with shooting hogs or Zebra specifically imported to be shot?

[Ja'chyra]

Ah, apologies. I must have seen that text out of context, I thought it was speaking of deer-hunting.

Just a transmission erorr, honest. :bow:

No worries ~:cheers:

[scooter_the_shooter]

Well for a start I never said hunting was bad nor did I call you a murderer.

Let's go back a bit, you said that hunting was good and kept the local wildlife population in check, which I quite agree with. Now you seem to be supporting a company that imports exotic animals for the sole task of being shot. Where is your moral, hunters know best for nature argument now?

So how are these animals kept? Are they allowed to roam free or are they fenced in?

If they are allowed to roam free how does that affect the indiginous wildlife? If they are fenced where is the challenge? Either way hunting permits are available to control the local animals whereas places like this cater to people who just want to be able to kill something different. Why? I can only assume they like killing things?

I'll leave out your questionable taste in decoration. ~:cheers:



What's this got to do with shooting hogs or Zebra specifically imported to be shot?



It still supports wildlife.

When i go there I will need new gear. Anything you buy that is hunting gear has a special tax in my state. That tax goes for conservation of wild life habitats.


What the difference between me killing a pig and you getting it from the store.. except I know where mine came from you don't.


These animals live free on the a fenced in ranch.

The animals there are bred to be bigger and better.


Say there was no fence and the local deer got in with the super deer they would mix and the deer would be like local ones again.

And its my money I will do what i want with it.

[Productivity]

It is only the people who never hunted that say it is bad.

They are as bad as the people who want to ban guns but have never touched or seen one relying only on streotypes they got from tv about gun owners :furious3:

I've hunted (spearfishing) and I think by far the majority of hunting is bad. Hunting should be restricted in waht you can use, and heavily restricted in what you have to do to get a licence.

Every shot I have ever taken has killed the fish it was aimed at (except for bluegropers, those things are armoured like tanks), headshot, the fish is dead in less than a second of impact, everytime. I never take a shot which isn't perfect, and beleive me I've let alot of almost shots go.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing it banned. Too many people have no concept of decency towards animals, or other people, and if banning me is what it takes to get them out of it, I'll accept that.

It's the people who clamour about how it's all stereotypes and only those who have not hunted will support a ban, that tend to be the biggest vandals, in terms of respect for everyone involved. In fact most of the serious spearfishers I know would support ir at the least be ambivalent towards a ban, because of occasional spearfishers who ruin it for everyone else. Occasionals for the most are utter vandals, who are in it for the murder, with anything else as a nice externality, and as far as I can tell are near-despised by the serious community.

[scooter_the_shooter]

How am I vandalizing it???? Its people like you who wouldn't care if there was a ban vandalizing it. People like you who only care about their part of hunting. I don't hunt over a feeder or that deer cocaine stuff. but i Have no problem with people who do. I don't use decoys but I have no problem with other people doing it. I don't use buck shot but I have no problem with people who do. I support all the different hunting methods. because if they ban some they will ban more.

If you think hunting is bad thats your problem but dont try and impose a law on the rest of us.

[Productivity]

Its people like you who wouldn't care if there was a ban vandalizing it.

I hate to say this, but I am really struglling with working out what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that I wouldn't care if there was a ban that did the vandalising (through overpopulation I presume). If that is the case, that is not what I support whatsoever, and I request that you take back that accusation, because it is completely false.


If you think hunting is bad thats your problem but dont try and impose a law on the rest of us.

Welcome to democracy. Do you think gay marriage is bad? That's your problem, don't try to impose a law on the rest of people. Do you think abortion is bad? That's your problem, don't try to impose a law on the rest of people.

The point you made is intelectually bankrupt. Society through the democractic process makes judgements upon values, and I have every right to express my values and ideas through that democratic process, namely by voting for people who will make laws that I support. You may not like them, but then again, I don't think there is a single person who likes every law in existance.

*note to all, please don't turn this into a gay marriage or abortion debate as I think we have used up our quota for this month allready, they are for illustrative purposes only.

EDIT: It's nearing 1am here, you may have to wait a while for a response, sorry I can't keep a running debate going but I do need sleep.

[scooter_the_shooter]

You already you don't care if hunting is banned



However, I wouldn't mind seeing it banned.







You dont ban any thing because of a minority You try to prevent that minority from doing damage. You do this by making huge fines for those who dont follow the hunting law.


And i keep hearing about the evil blood thirsty hunters i have never meant one they are a minority. You dont ban something because for what a few do

[Steppe Merc]

Hehe, clearly this guy has never had some nice fresh Deer-Jerky.
I have to agree with you there. Great stuff.

I agree Ser C, this is hunting for the so called sport, nothing to do with controlling populations or hunting for food just the thrill of the kill, or the thrill of the murder.
Exactly. The only worthwhile hunting is that that is neccassary (with deer or something), and that is eaten. Everything else should be outlawed. You want a dead animal that was raised in an inclosed area? Go to the supermarkert, there are a whole bunch there.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Exactly. The only worthwhile hunting is that that is neccassary (with deer or something), and that is eaten. Everything else should be outlawed. You want a dead animal that was raised in an inclosed area? Go to the supermarkert, there are a whole bunch there.


Whats it matter if i get there or get it at the ranch... and when is the last time you saw wild boar in a store its different then a pig

[Steppe Merc]

The difference is that it's wasteful to kill animals for no point other than for "fun", and frankly I find it cruel. An animal should have some chance of escape, (or even better, of killing the hunter... fair is fair ~D ). IMO, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Otherwise, it should just be killed, without the whole chase that it can never win.

Besides, real boar hunting is done with wild animals, with you mounted and armed with a spear. ~;)

[scooter_the_shooter]

Your definition of boar hunting sounds like a good way to die stepp ~D.

I will get meat and a nice head to put on my wall those are why want to hunt it not so i can take a bath in its blood.


It can escape if it finds a way out. This ranch is more than 60 acres plenty of places for it to hide.

In september i will hunt 10 pheasent the same way the guy lets him out on his 20 acre ranch and if they fly away they fly away no refunds.

[Steppe Merc]

Or even better, to be mounted with a composite bow instead of the spear. And only one arrow. ~D

And it is good that you will eat the boar. However, in my eyes, it messes with the natrual order of things, and I'm sure that there are far more unfair fenced in places without places for the animal to hide.

[Red Harvest]

He misses the point entirely. The best parts of hunting are stalking the animal and eating the animal.

Too much hunting is sedentary and I don't really consider myself a hunter, but I've always enjoyed seeing how close I could get to an animal before it detected me by sight, sound or more importantly scent. It is a real challenge to work your way across an open field toward a herd of deer in the same field. Step...then a long wait until all of them are turned or head down grazing again...then a step, or two, or three if you are lucky...then freeze again...until you are within what would be easy bow shot. Same sort of thing with tracking them in the woods, seeing them before they see you.

The actual shooting is secondary, and the meat is good, so killing them is not a waste, anymore than butchering cattle from the same exact fields.

I prefer fishing, takes less time, more action. Usually when I fish I catch enough keepers to feed my family for a meal or two. And really fresh fish is hard to beat.

[scooter_the_shooter]

Or even better, to be mounted with a composite bow instead of the spear. And only one arrow. ~D

And it is good that you will eat the boar. However, in my eyes, it messes with the natrual order of things, and I'm sure that there are far more unfair fenced in places without places for the animal to hide.


Just curious what do you think of hunts like these. There are no fences but you have VERY experienced guide who will find you animal 9 out of 10 times.



you know those animals are pretty scary we need to defend our homes ~:joker

http://serval.olivet.edu/~JDALTON/Pictures/Groundhog%20Commando.jpg

[Red Harvest]

And it is good that you will eat the boar. However, in my eyes, it messes with the natrual order of things

Actually, feral hogs a real problem and setting the natural order right requires their eradication. They are rather destructive to soil and such. They are non-native species and should be hunted to protect the native species. Hogs are very intelligent creatures, and are not so easy to hunt. Having raised hogs, I can attest to their intelligence and ability to turn ground into rocky rutted moonscape.

[Ser Clegane]

Prolly tastes good too.


It definitely does ~:)

[Goofball]

Well, as a guy who likes a good day of fishing I guess it would be hypocritical of me to be against hunting. After all, we're both killing animals, only I am pulling them out of the water and killing them by suffocation rather than pumping them full of lead. Heck, maybe a well-placed bullet is actually more merciful.

Anyway, I have no problem with hunting, as long as conservation principles are followed and it's done nowhere near residential areas.

[Red Harvest]

Anyway, I have no problem with hunting, as long as conservation principles are followed and it's done nowhere near residential areas.

I suppose you mean this for safety sake? Bow hunting and such can be done relatively close to residential areas. And residential areas have been prone to runaway deer populations.

I think those opposed to hunting because it kills animals need to participate in the slaughter of some cattle or chickens some time. Growing up on a farm gives one a different perspective of where one's meat comes from... The only way you can condemn hunting on such a stance is if you are a vegetarian. I'm opposed to hunting and fishing that kills animals then wastes the meat. I'm opposed to hunting that results in slow death and other sloppy practices. (I deliver a coup de grace to my fish before I clean them...lol.)

The only things I want to suffer slow agonizing deaths are FIREANTS. Where is my magnifying glass...blast, no Sun.

[Roark]

Isn't eating wild boar a little... unsanitary?

I mean, over here they're chock-full of the most evil parasites known to man...

We kill them as pests, but we're warned against eating the meat.

Is it simply a matter of cooking them thoroughly?

[scooter_the_shooter]

No ones ever told me not to eat the boar. I dont want to get sick from this can you give me more info on these parasites.

[Roark]

Keep in mind that these apply to Australian feral pigs. Also, I have just read that many of these can be safely avoided with proper preparation of the meat.


Diseases and parasites

Feral pigs can carry many infectious diseases and internal and external parasites. Some are endemic (already present) while others are still
exotic to Australia. Many of the diseases can not only spread to domestic pigs but to other livestock and humans. Diseases naturally transmitted from animal to man are called zoonoses.

Zoonoses currently in feral pigs in Australia:

• Tuberculosis (TB) – a serious disease of the lungs. Once common but now rare.

• Brucellosis, Porcine and Bovine − a bacterial disease causing severe long-term illness, undulant fever and possible infertility, both strains are contracted by handling raw meat. Porcine Brucellosis is rare in Queensland.
Feral pigs were blamed for the spread of TB and Bovine Brucellosis amongst cattle but both diseases have been eradicated from Queensland without
directly targeting feral pigs.

• Sparganosis − a parasite that can infest the muscles of humans, forming encyst lumps, is common in pigs from swampy areas; contractedby ingesting raw meat.

• Melioidosis − a serious bacterial disease which causes abscesses.

• Leptospirosis − a serious bacterial disease; in humans called Weil’s disease, causing very high temperatures, kidney trouble and jaundice; can
be fatal. It is found in up to 20% of feral pigs in Queensland.

• Q Fever − this disease occurs in all animals and is well known by meat workers. It can cause very high temperature and result in heart problems; can be fatal.

Leptospirosis and Q Fever infection can occur through contact with blood, meat and urine through broken shin, intake of urine-contaminated food or
water, and inhalation of infectious airborne organisms.

Brucellosis, Leptospirosis and Q Fever cause flu-like symptoms similar to Ross River Fever and Lepto and Q Fever can be fatal.

Owing to these diseases it is advisable to avoid handling feral pigs unless they are slaughtered at a licensed premises where there is a full-time meat
inspector on duty to ensure that animals are free of the above diseases.

If you must handle feral pig meat use suitable protective clothing (mask, goggles, strong rubber gloves and plastic apron and boots) to minimise
contamination with blood, urine and faeces.

[bmolsson]

It is only the people who never hunted that say it is bad.

They are as bad as the people who want to ban guns but have never touched or seen one relying only on streotypes they got from tv about gun owners :furious3:


I have hunted. The largest animal shot is a grown male elk (3 tags). I do understand why hunting is necessary. I do not understand why anyone think it's fun to kill. Sport hunting is bad, professional hunting is necessary.

I have used guns against people and I have been shot at as well. I can't see any reason for me or any other civilian to carry a gun in a modern society. Police and military personnel need weapons in their service and are trained on how to use them.

When I ever hear somebody say that they need a gun for self protection, I just :help:

[Big_John]

boar are not (generally) feral pigs. they should have no more problems with disease than any other wild animal. domestic animals (that are constantly treated with antibiotics and whatnot) that go feral might be more susceptible to a whole host of diseases once in the wild. but for the first couple of generations at least, feral pigs are probably fairly distinguishable from wild boar.

[Xiahou]

I have hunted. The largest animal shot is a grown male elk (3 tags). I do understand why hunting is necessary. I do not understand why anyone think it's fun to kill. Sport hunting is bad, professional hunting is necessary.I bet your professional hunters hate every kill they have to make and cry themselves to sleep each night. :rolleyes:

[scooter_the_shooter]

I can't see any reason for me or any other civilian to carry a gun in a modern society.

Just because you cant see any reason doesn't mean others don't.

Bmosslon( i know i spelled it wrong) you have your opinion on gun control i have mine. lets leave it that...this is about hunting


..................

on topic



So I would be better off and be safer by finding something else to hunt??


Good point xia ~D about the professionals they are paid to kill them. And they are some how morally superior to us who buy license which go to support wild life and hunt for free :dizzy2:

[bmolsson]

I bet your professional hunters hate every kill they have to make and cry themselves to sleep each night. :rolleyes:

Compare them to the soldiers and police officers that shots enemies. Do you argue that the American troops in Iraq enjoy putting bullets in people and therefore travels all the way to Iraq to have a sporting experience? :help:

One of my very good friends is a hunter and professional wildlife expert. He kills daily and treat the animals with the fullest respect. No stalking, no big heads on his walls and no bragging. He kills so that the animal can be used as food and without any un-necessary pain or fear. The key word is respect. :book:

I would argue that anyone that enjoy killing anything alive is in urgent need for professional help and is a danger to himself as well as to us all. ~;)

Soldiers, police officers and hunters that I know have all respect for their opponents (enemy, criminals or animals) and does not have any pleasure in killing or hurting. They do have the committment, discipline and pleasure in doing a good job, which something totally different. :bow:

[Roark]

boar are not (generally) feral pigs. they should have no more problems with disease than any other wild animal. domestic animals (that are constantly treated with antibiotics and whatnot) that go feral might be more susceptible to a whole host of diseases once in the wild. but for the first couple of generations at least, feral pigs are probably fairly distinguishable from wild boar.

Feral pigs have, unfortunately, existed in Australia for close to 200 years, and therefore wouldn't have been treated with antibiotics. I think it's more to do with living amongst their own filth in the swampy environments that they inhabit over here.

European have been munching out on boar for centuries, so I'm guessing that their edibility must be related to their habitat.

[Xiahou]

Compare them to the soldiers and police officers that shots enemies. Do you argue that the American troops in Iraq enjoy putting bullets in people and therefore travels all the way to Iraq to have a sporting experience? :help:There's no comparison between killing a person in war or in self defense and shooting a deer or rabbit. They aren't even remotely similar.

I don't think it's normal for people to enjoy blasting away at an animal to watch it die, but I believe there is plenty of room to enjoy the overall hunting 'experience', which does include the kill.

[Big_John]

European have been munching out on boar for centuries, so I'm guessing that their edibility must be related to their habitat.possibly. you would think that a disease-ridden population of animals wouldn't be doing very well in any habitat, even if it's an invasive species. perhaps the lack of predators competition/predators(?) offsets that, allowing the diseases to persist in a population of animals that haven't yet evolved immunological defenses to their new habitat.

don't know about the feral pig problem here in the US (though, i think certain states certainly have problems). nor do i see much boar meat for sale. but the single best meat i ever tasted was a chuck of wild-boar charcuterie (cured by some means) i had in corsica, so i have a soft spot for the yummy little guys.

[Red Harvest]

don't know about the feral pig problem here in the US (though, i think certain states certainly have problems)

Check conservation web sites in Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas for examples.

[bmolsson]

There's no comparison between killing a person in war or in self defense and shooting a deer or rabbit. They aren't even remotely similar.

I don't think it's normal for people to enjoy blasting away at an animal to watch it die, but I believe there is plenty of room to enjoy the overall hunting 'experience', which does include the kill.


As normal people go to war to enjoy the thrill ???

[scooter_the_shooter]

I aim for the vitals when hunting. I dont shoot a deer in the gut and just watch it die


And i eat the deer. Would i ever shoot a person, not unless i had too, do i feel any remorse shooting a ground hog NO its completely different for me. It might be the same to you but to the vast majority of the world it is different.